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Zerovoting and Exposure.

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MegaMettaurX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-08-31 21:36:19 Reply

At 8/31/14 08:33 PM, DamienFleisch wrote: +1 johnfn

I think you're kind of missing the point of reviews, MegaMatteur. Honestly, I don't see much of a difference between leaving a review that says "I like this" with 4 stars and just giving it a 4 star rating and walking away. Yeah, a short nice review is cool now and again but what do you learn from that?

And honestly man, that Kanye example is pretty poor. He may not be asking P. Diddy for advice, but there is a whole team of producers and label execs, I'd wager at least 6, who listen to it a dozen times, take notes on what to fix, make those changes and then repeat that process for weeks. Don't discount the value of what someone else hears in your music.

When I saw your first thread that got locked I felt a little bad for you and listened to some of your music. I was going to leave you a good review with some serious thoughts. But everything you have said here has made it clear that you don't want to hear them so I won't bother taking the time to type them out.

And here. Instead of just reviewing my track, you decided not to. Even though I dont like the systems we have here. I'm still out there reviewing other people's work when I decide to listen to them. I give advice, but I not every review. I shouldn't be expect to give long ass reason on why I like your song. If I tell you I like your track with a 4-5 star rating, then OBVIOUSLY you're doing something right. You've been through school. you can put 2 and 2 together.

johnfn
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-08-31 22:13:46 Reply

At 8/31/14 08:22 PM, MegaMettaurX wrote: Why do I care that someone wants to write a 10 paragraph essay on why they do or don't like my style? seriously. An artist doesn't need that shit unless they specifically ask for it. You're missing my point entirely, so I'm done with this conversation.

The truth is that artists are concerned with the *art* of a track. While your typical everyday listener is more concerned with whether it has a good beat or a catchy chorus, an artist can hone in and tell you exactly which parts of your track are and are not working, so that you know what to work on in the future. That's the utility of a 10 paragraph review.

If you don't care about making art (and there's nothing wrong with that) then I can understand why you wouldn't be concerned with this.


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MegaMettaurX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-08-31 22:19:08 Reply

At 8/31/14 10:13 PM, johnfn wrote:
At 8/31/14 08:22 PM, MegaMettaurX wrote: Why do I care that someone wants to write a 10 paragraph essay on why they do or don't like my style? seriously. An artist doesn't need that shit unless they specifically ask for it. You're missing my point entirely, so I'm done with this conversation.
The truth is that artists are concerned with the *art* of a track. While your typical everyday listener is more concerned with whether it has a good beat or a catchy chorus, an artist can hone in and tell you exactly which parts of your track are and are not working, so that you know what to work on in the future. That's the utility of a 10 paragraph review.

If you don't care about making art (and there's nothing wrong with that) then I can understand why you wouldn't be concerned with this.

None of that takes 10 paragraphs. If you got to write 10 paragraphs ( a review), maybe you should instead of give them a shit ton of text, hook up with the person, give them a lesson. It seriously does not take 10 paragraphs to tell someoen why their 8 minutes or less song is good or bad.

johnfn
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-08-31 22:27:15 Reply

At 8/31/14 10:19 PM, MegaMettaurX wrote: None of that takes 10 paragraphs. If you got to write 10 paragraphs ( a review), maybe you should instead of give them a shit ton of text, hook up with the person, give them a lesson. It seriously does not take 10 paragraphs to tell someoen why their 8 minutes or less song is good or bad.

You're getting caught up on something not really relevant to what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that it's both possible and helpful to write a positive review longer than, say, 2 sentences.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-08-31 22:46:14 Reply

At 8/31/14 10:19 PM, MegaMettaurX wrote: None of that takes 10 paragraphs. If you got to write 10 paragraphs ( a review), maybe you should instead of give them a shit ton of text, hook up with the person, give them a lesson. It seriously does not take 10 paragraphs to tell someoen why their 8 minutes or less song is good or bad.

Just putting it out there that I write essay reviews not just because I want to tell an artist why I think his song is good or bad. If I wanted to do just that, I'd take a paragraph or two making very generalised comments on what I liked and didn't like. I prefer going in detail, mentioning particular things I think are noteworthy and generally not leaving any stone unturned. Why do I do it? Because I enjoy it. I enjoy analysing music, writing down my thoughts, and reading what the artist has to say about them. Heavy analysis of a piece of music not only makes me appreciate the fine details of a song more, but it even helps me judge my own music critically and keep a close eye on everything I do.

Does an artist NEED that much detail? No. Does it help? In my opinion, hell yes. Judging from my experience getting essay reviews on my own music, I find it very enlightening and informative when I read someone's analysis of my track. I know what I should've done better and what I was doing right, which helps me infinitely more than "i liked the track, 10/10". Well, I mean, using words like "right" or "wrong" may not be entirely suitable because music is an art form which is, in the end, subjective, but educated analysis from other musicians fills you in on what another musician, just like you, thinks about the track you spent hours working on, and to me (and to a lot of people I think) that is invaluable.

That doesn't mean it's not cool to get short and sweet comments from non-producers. Getting an outside perspective helps you understand whether your music appeals to someone else who isn't there to analyse your track but simply to enjoy it, so I can agree with that. Point is, in the end, nobody's going to be mad at you for giving someone a quick comment on whether you liked something or not (unless it's in the R4R thread or something where people are specifically looking for feedback and critique). However, do not underestimate the advice and feedback of another musician. Constructive criticism is the key to improvement.


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Chemiqals
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-08-31 23:29:26 Reply

I think you're missing the point of feedback MegaMettaurX. I don't really need to get into it here though, as others have already said more than enough on that subject. I do want to say one thing though. Music is subjective. You could get an entire essay written about your song and not agree with a single word of it. But feedback isn't meant to be a definitive critique on your music. Reviews are just as subjective as the music itself. Someone might tell you that they think you need a bass drum or that you should add some pads at certain points. But you could disagree entirely. I don't always agree with reviews that I get. But I still appreciate the feedback regardless. You never know if you'll learn something new from a critique or not, so why reject them? I've made changes based on feedback that I agreed with and I think it really helped my song and my future work as well! You always have to appreciate the time that someone takes to give you their opinion on your work. You don't have to agree with them. But how will you ever learn anything if you reject feedback from the get go and believe that everything you put out is as good as it could be?

Ok, that might have been more than one thing.

MegaMettaurX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 00:15:01 Reply

At 8/31/14 10:46 PM, Step wrote: snip

Oh yes, it definitely does. But if I all I got to say about a track is that I like it, then I feel like that's what I should give instead pulling shit out of my ass and talk about stuff I really didn't think needed work, which I do in a lot in R4R and why I stop posting there. Some tracks I give more constructive criticism, but it's not needed on every track, especially when you can tell style from error.

I'm open to advice, as everyone should be, but you don't need to give advice on every track. some times they just don't need any.

MegaMettaurX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 00:17:48 Reply

At 8/31/14 11:29 PM, Chemiqals wrote: I think you're missing the point of feedback MegaMettaurX. I don't really need to get into it here though, as others have already said more than enough on that subject. I do want to say one thing though. Music is subjective. You could get an entire essay written about your song and not agree with a single word of it. But feedback isn't meant to be a definitive critique on your music. Reviews are just as subjective as the music itself. Someone might tell you that they think you need a bass drum or that you should add some pads at certain points. But you could disagree entirely. I don't always agree with reviews that I get. But I still appreciate the feedback regardless. You never know if you'll learn something new from a critique or not, so why reject them? I've made changes based on feedback that I agreed with and I think it really helped my song and my future work as well! You always have to appreciate the time that someone takes to give you their opinion on your work. You don't have to agree with them. But how will you ever learn anything if you reject feedback from the get go and believe that everything you put out is as good as it could be?

Ok, that might have been more than one thing.

It's not the feedback persay I'm talking about. It's the type of feedback I'm talking about.

People shouldn't be getting butt hurt over one line reviews. Even you gave me a one line review. and I'm not even mad about it. You let me know that what I was doing was on the right track. Why should any one get sour faced about that?

johnfn
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 00:22:15 Reply

At 9/1/14 12:17 AM, MegaMettaurX wrote: People shouldn't be getting butt hurt over one line reviews. Even you gave me a one line review. and I'm not even mad about it. You let me know that what I was doing was on the right track. Why should any one get sour faced about that?

Normally on the portal, one line reviews are fine, but in the R4R thread they indicate (whether it's true or not) a lack of effort. When you give a single line review it looks like you want feedback but you're not willing to go to the effort of giving legitimate feedback to someone else.


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NekoMika
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 00:23:25 Reply

At 9/1/14 12:15 AM, MegaMettaurX wrote: I'm open to advice, as everyone should be, but you don't need to give advice on every track. some times they just don't need any.

While I agree on the latter (mostly because some people have mastered what they do), most people still need critiques, you asked me to review your piece in my club which I plan to do. But like others have said, just learn to take some criticism every now and then dude. No one is out to make your life suck.

Hugs?

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MegaMettaurX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 00:33:52 Reply

At 9/1/14 12:23 AM, SCTE3 wrote:
At 9/1/14 12:15 AM, MegaMettaurX wrote: I'm open to advice, as everyone should be, but you don't need to give advice on every track. some times they just don't need any.
While I agree on the latter (mostly because some people have mastered what they do), most people still need critiques, you asked me to review your piece in my club which I plan to do. But like others have said, just learn to take some criticism every now and then dude. No one is out to make your life suck.
Hugs?

No where in my post am I event complaining about that. At all. No where in ANY of my posts have I said I had a problem with it.

MegaMettaurX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 00:36:06 Reply

At 9/1/14 12:22 AM, johnfn wrote:
At 9/1/14 12:17 AM, MegaMettaurX wrote: People shouldn't be getting butt hurt over one line reviews. Even you gave me a one line review. and I'm not even mad about it. You let me know that what I was doing was on the right track. Why should any one get sour faced about that?
Normally on the portal, one line reviews are fine, but in the R4R thread they indicate (whether it's true or not) a lack of effort. When you give a single line review it looks like you want feedback but you're not willing to go to the effort of giving legitimate feedback to someone else.

I'm pretty sure that was a R4R thing, because I posted two tracks, and one of them didn't get reviewd, IIRC. But none of that even matters, because it doesn't bother me.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 04:08:30 Reply

At 9/1/14 12:36 AM, MegaMettaurX wrote:
People shouldn't be getting butt hurt over one line reviews. Even you gave me a one line review. and I'm not even mad about it. You let me know that what I was doing was on the right track. Why should any one get sour faced about that?

Not sure if it's been mentioned since I didn't bother reading so far back, but the whole point of the R4R thread is for people to point out flaws in your music so that you know where to improve.

There's nothing wrong at all about a general 'Hey this is a nice track I like the vibes', but if you want general comments like that, you should look elsewhere. The R4R thread is almost purely for constructive criticism.

MegaMettaurX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 04:18:49 Reply

At 9/1/14 04:08 AM, DjAbbic wrote: snip

Oh, well in that case I guess I won't be using that thread, unless I actually need feed back, like on a new idea of mine.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2014-09-01 15:27:03 Reply

Why do I care that someone wants to write a 10 paragraph essay on why they do or don't like my style? seriously. An artist doesn't need that shit unless they specifically ask for it. You're missing my point entirely, so I'm done with this conversation.

You'll get nowhere with that attitude =_=. You're music ISN'T perfect. Neither is mine. Why do you think that the casual listeners won't give you feedback? Has it ever fallen into you that it might because they don't enjoy what you make either? Maybe yo ushould consider some feedback by your peers? It's true that music is subjective, but honestly if your mixing sucks it will sound bad for everyone including casual listeners.
I'm going to say it again, you won't get anywhere with your music, or with your life with that attitude. You seriously need to rethink what you are saying here.
I guess this is what you call ignorant...


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