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Zerovoting and Exposure.

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EoD696
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-09-29 04:58:49 Reply

Yeah, I'm new so...this whole "zero bombing" thing is foreign to me, but I am also an experienced webmaster, and forcing people to only vote once would not be difficult at all...that seems the most viable solution to the problem in discussion to me. Although, there are downsides...think about it for a moment, how many of the giants here in the audio portal got voted on multiple times to get their status? I mean, of the thousand or so votes on a single song, I bet at least half are multiple votes by a single user...not all of them of course, but one user votes twice, then the next one does, and so on and so forth and before you know it you've got 1500 5/5 ratings on a song. Allowing multiple votes allows for a quick progression through the masses of rankings and pieces for the songs that people really like. Yet, it also allows zero bombers to do their worst.

So...I guess the moral is if you've got a really good song, it'll survive the bomb, but if you don't it wont. Ultimately, as a musician, you have to consider your purpose; is it to please yourself or everyone else? Either purpose is admirable, though, if you want to be on the top, you've got to work to please the masses, and that includes the zero bombers, and if they favor trance/dance/dnb, then thats what you've got to create. Otherwise, quit your bitching and move on with life. It goes on without you, and there are other places to share your music.

S3C
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-09-29 11:54:45 Reply

At 9/29/08 04:58 AM, EoD696 wrote: Yeah, I'm new so...this whole "zero bombing" thing is foreign to me, but I am also an experienced webmaster, and forcing people to only vote once would not be difficult at all...that seems the most viable solution to the problem in discussion to me.

thats actually the voting system we had before the redesign.

So...I guess the moral is if you've got a really good song, it'll survive the bomb, but if you don't it wont. Ultimately, as a musician, you have to consider your purpose; is it to please yourself or everyone else? Either purpose is admirable, though, if you want to be on the top, you've got to work to please the masses, and that includes the zero bombers, and if they favor trance/dance/dnb, then thats what you've got to create.

Not entirely true, yes EDM is the most popular style here, but all styles get their share of recognition, if you work on your style and get good, you dont need to sell out to become popular. There actually is a pretty varied taste group here on newgrounds.

:Otherwise, quit your bitching and move on with life. It goes on without you, and there are other places to share your music.

:)))


If your work isn't worth fighting for, it's not worth uploading on NG, period. (JrHager84)

Chronamut
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-09-29 12:24:33 Reply

Ok big rant coming.

Everyone says the system sucks - everyone said the old system sucked. As soon as people get zero-bombed, they whine. However I have been saying for years that its not the system's fault at all - but the people's mentality that use it. A system can't be flawed - only people and hte people that made it can be flawed. The voting system is not flawed - this is what is flawed.

everyone comes here, they bitch about how someone zero-voted their song - but HEAVEN FORBID they actually go to another user and dedicatedly five their music daily. Theyre hypocrites. They want everyone to five their stuff all the time but do absolutely NOTHING to earn it themselves. The old system was better for the one reason that you could only vote once. Since you could only vote on your own song once it actually FORCED you to rate other people's music, since obviously you could do nothing with your own.

Now all people do is five their stuff every day, and yes it is justifiable, I mean, you made you music, so of course you love it, right?but if every user in the audio portal, and ESPECIALLY in this audio forum, got their headout of their OWN ass every once in a while, found a few artists that they really loved, and every day popped by and gave their songs a five, users wouldn't NEED to five themselves! This site hasn't become corrupted - YOU GUYS have! You want change? You're the fucking lifeblood of this site - make it happen yourself! I'm TIRED of hearing people bitch about the problems of the newgrounds staff when they can't be assed to help out others - it really disgusts me. I five the users I love all the time.

I mean come on - you all whine and bitch that you're not on the charts, or that there is nothnig good on the charts - ok so if you dont like something - give it the score it deserves - that is your viewpoint anyways. But if you do not vote up other users that you think deserve to be there - CONSISTANTLY - one vote one day and then forgetting them does dick all in helping a user these days sadly - then your whining is not worthy of being listened to. The charts, the scores, everything depends on your OWN power and willingness to help others. You show some kindness to others, and they will show kindness towards you. You want a top 30 of artists that deserve to be there? Find like minded people and get them all to vote on users you think deserve it! Same with the regular charts - maybe then this site will actually revert back to how it USED to be, and some of the users who left the site might return. Honestly, everyone gets along in this forum, but its a vipers nest in the audio portal - and in some little way you are all to blame for not being good enough role models and doing your part to help out - mind you some of you DO - and thats great - but most of you just can't be assed.

</end rant>

S3C
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-09-29 17:42:03 Reply

I agree with what you said Chrawn, (Chron + Shawn = Chrawn, can I call you that?), although, I'd rather review someone's work than just 5 it daily, although, I do make sure to vote five everytime I listen to a song I like, and try to upvote new tracks in hopes that they'll make the top 5. Maybe you are just encouraging this because you have a gizzilion fans, and if each and everyone was to upvote you daily, you'd be on top :P


If your work isn't worth fighting for, it's not worth uploading on NG, period. (JrHager84)

Chronamut
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-09-29 19:02:59 Reply

At 9/29/08 05:42 PM, S3C wrote: I agree with what you said Chrawn, (Chron + Shawn = Chrawn, can I call you that?), although, I'd rather review someone's work than just 5 it daily, although, I do make sure to vote five everytime I listen to a song I like, and try to upvote new tracks in hopes that they'll make the top 5. Maybe you are just encouraging this because you have a gizzilion fans, and if each and everyone was to upvote you daily, you'd be on top :P

I dont have as many fans as you may think - and sure, if it actually worked, id love to have some popularity gauged by the general populace - who wouldn't?

and sure you can call me that - they oth sound the same neways.

Reviewing is great too - ut only if the review is well thought out and helpful - as much as mindless tens seem good - a billion of "OMG I LOVE THIS!" can sometimes get old. It's the well thought out ones that are the ones you cherish the most.

as for the rant- it was a long time coming. Next time anyone has an urge to bitch about zero voters - just tell them to read that.

AwkwardFish
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-10-06 20:44:08 Reply

I don't know if anyone's suggested this yet because frankly I can't be arsed to read all the posts, but I have this idea: if someone votes 0, they should be obligated to write a review or some kind of justification as to why they voted 0. It would make people less inclined to run down the list zero bombing because it would take them ten times longer and "BECUZ I WANT LOLZORRZ" would not be a valid justification.


Check out my music please! :)

HMS-Productions
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-10-06 21:10:54 Reply

maybe disable the 0 button unless they write a review?

I agree with Chromanut, in this case, people should adapt to the system, not the other way around.

But don't forget, it's much easier on someone's conscience to zero-vote a song if they don't even have an account here...


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LLynn
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-02 16:46:52 Reply

I also noticed that many people aren't using the in between numbers, it's just 0 or 5's for people.

LLynn
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-02 16:56:08 Reply

Oh and I found this asshole:

http://pedophilicincest.newgrounds.com/r eviews/audio

SymbolCymbal
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-03 19:12:54 Reply

um yeah so i noticed that every monday the zero voter strike cause all my stuff that was 4.40 or higher is now down.. even nubbinz new song got hit ... he went from a 4.58 to a 4.35 and its fucking amazing so you know its not cause people didnt like it.. OH well.. keep on truckin

SymbolCymbal
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-03 19:14:30 Reply

At 9/26/08 09:42 PM, Rucklo wrote:
At 9/26/08 08:45 PM, RenoakRhythm wrote: why can't malicious zero voting be noted punished, and/or banned?
because you haven't read through this thread and is closed to being banned for being an ignorant fool >:(

hey hey hey no backseat modding.. LOL i always wanted to say that.. HAHAHA
We miss you rucklo

Chronamut
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-03 20:05:28 Reply

At 11/3/08 07:14 PM, SymbolCymbal wrote:
At 9/26/08 09:42 PM, Rucklo wrote:
At 9/26/08 08:45 PM, RenoakRhythm wrote: why can't malicious zero voting be noted punished, and/or banned?
because you haven't read through this thread and is closed to being banned for being an ignorant fool >:(
hey hey hey no backseat modding.. LOL i always wanted to say that.. HAHAHA
We miss you rucklo

lol you little shit disturber - thats MY job lolol..

you guys all want up and coming artist s to listen to? Get on the admins asses to FIX THE GODDAMN AUDIO PLAYER IN THE NG MAG! Its been broken for years now, and I dont care how many tiems I have to bring it up - back in the day it was the place ALL of us went to see what was hot and what was not - and we all felt a little special inside if we were on it - there was the new up and coming artists, the famous regulars, and the oldie goldies (not necessarily in that wording) and it was great! I dont rmeember what it was based off - maybe top five, dunno - but still - I remember listening to stuff I normally wouldn't have. It just seems like a waste of such an awesome resource..

XxX-WOLF-XxX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-04 05:20:40 Reply

I remember when this place was more supportive of people just starting out in making music.
Hell back then my music sucked more balls then it does now but the feedback and responses were so much more... friendly, lawl.

I suffer from zero voting as well and i have learned not to give a damn but it is frustrating at times.

I honestly would embrace horrible votes if they just left a comment explaining why... and not just "this sucks ass!"

Anyways, best we can do until something more effective is done with the voting system is constructively criticize and actually give a song a chance before probing ourselves with a long wooden stick and voting 0.

~WOLF~

DJSynth
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-10 16:27:52 Reply

Ok that makes a lot of sense. I posted this topic on how my music was getting 0 votes but then it went to 3.99... so i felt bad because everone would think i was just wining.

SymbolCymbal
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-11 14:28:32 Reply

FUCKIN SWEET ALL MY BEST SONGS GOT 0 BOMBED!!!!.. every friggin monday night it happenes... one of my songs was 443 with 100 votes.. this morning its 438 with 101 votes...
Oh well keep on truckin

Kr1z
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-14 15:59:30 Reply

At 11/11/08 02:28 PM, SymbolCymbal wrote: FUCKIN SWEET ALL MY BEST SONGS GOT 0 BOMBED!!!!.. every friggin monday night it happenes... one of my songs was 443 with 100 votes.. this morning its 438 with 101 votes...
Oh well keep on truckin

Welcome to NG or something

Krank
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-14 17:00:39 Reply

I'm starting to enjoy the zero bombers.

they make it soooooo easy to get top weekly its not even fucking funny

jnry3
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-23 11:39:35 Reply

Admit it. Our egos demand that we get top 50 or weekly top 5.

If you want a good indicator as to how good your song is, look at the review ratings and downloads. Those are usually "safe" indicators (but of course you can repeatedly download the song, but it won't count on the ratings, so... no).

The sad part is that most good artists have demanding egos. Heck, there are lots of artists that have come and gone. They don't deserve the zeroes, but the zeroes happen.

Oh yeah... I got zeroed twice for a song because it's peaking the Pop chart.

User problem. Yup.

The system at Garageband is fun, actually. You blind-review a song, and you can only rate it 30 or so seconds after. This is a good thing (controlled, "honest" rating system) and a bad thing (no freedom of choice).

Tracking systems aren't good either (invasion of privacy).

Requiring reviews per rating could work. A 1 rating-per-user-per-song for all-time system could work (as opposed to a daily system).

Darn... there's always a loophole (i.e. a certain user can have multiple alts and downvote).

Maybe if we just whore our songs a bit more... hmm... that just might work...


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Kazmo
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-11-23 12:04:02 Reply

I'm pretty sure alts wouldn't be able to vote if the original artist already voted, because they're all from the same IP address.

What I (and a friend) thought of was, if someone 0 votes, they HAVE to leave a comment saying why they zero voted. In other words, they can't just blindly 0 vote, AND they can only 0 vote ONCE.


Audio-Technica ATH-700Pro Mk2 Headphones User

If you love trance: Kazmo's Beats!

japetheape
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-12-20 13:25:11 Reply

I agree with what Kazmo said except that would attract a little crowd called 1-voters, lol. What I think we should do is, disable voting for the first 10% of the song and if you skip ahead it detects it. After that time period you will be given a choice to vote from 0-5. If the user clicks on 0, 1, or 2 he must give a review where he doesnt get a chance to change his review score. If he votes 0 he has to give a review of 0, if he chooses 1 he can give a review of 1-2, and finally if he chooses 2 he must give a review of 2-4. This still gives them a little choice but they cant vote 0 and give a 10 to cover thier vote. Feel free to add on to this idea.

Envy
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-12-20 13:28:52 Reply

At 11/23/08 12:04 PM, Kazm0 wrote: I'm pretty sure alts wouldn't be able to vote if the original artist already voted, because they're all from the same IP address.

What I (and a friend) thought of was, if someone 0 votes, they HAVE to leave a comment saying why they zero voted. In other words, they can't just blindly 0 vote, AND they can only 0 vote ONCE.

Maybe the same thing with 5's?


At 3/27/11 10:22 PM, sugarsimon wrote:
the brilliant songs who create a production for music
Wat

Kr1z
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-12-20 15:49:19 Reply

What about filtering the 0's out of the calculating of the average score?

If you dont count the .. 5% LOWEST VOTES, in the calculation of your score, then manipulation through zerobombing is.. no longer possible?

A sucky song that has 2/5 and 3/5 will still have a low score, and a person that gets 4/5 and 5/5, and a 0/5 will no longer be raped :O

So.. zerobombing is solved?

Statisticly, to get a good, REPRESENTIVE average, 0's shouldnt be changing the score because mostly theyre not reasonable. They're 'extremes' and shouldnt count.
So just filter them out??

YouriX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-12-20 19:02:58 Reply

Statisticly, to get a good, REPRESENTIVE average, 0's shouldnt be changing the score because mostly theyre not reasonable. They're 'extremes' and shouldnt count.
So just filter them out??

Agreed

xKore
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-12-20 19:09:34 Reply

tbh i think the system is fine.

shizeet
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2008-12-20 19:11:28 Reply

At 7/27/08 08:25 PM, reaper-of-ratings wrote: how about this. Make an area on newgrounds where every majorly successful artist has their own link - like the series page has in the flash portal - then just get rid of all the scores and stats.

No more voting scores, no more review scores.

Reset all counters, and then don't display them. Voting power will be negligible since there will be nothing to vote on.

The only way anything will get on the charts will be to actually listen to it - and the counter would only count a person listening to a song once a day - regardless of how many times that day they listened to it.

There would be no zero voting, there would be no five voting. You wouldnt get retarded scores for your reviews - you'd just get reviews - whether they be bad or good - that's all they are in the end. There would be no statwhoring. Noone would have anything to complain about because if people don't listen to your music - then you suck, and you really don't have a right to complain about that.

I like this idea - maybe taking out the voting system altogether will reduce the amount of sabotage we inflict on each other, and maybe even allow us to just simply focus on the music. Personally, I don't like to qualify music with just numbers anyways, and even in reviews I kind of struggle with setting down a score; I'd much rather prefer to just leave comments only.


Latest Sub(s): Kaleidoscinema

EternalXIII
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-01-05 06:51:04 Reply

The only flaw that I see is that people who vote regularly in the Flash Portal gain experience while people who vote in the AP never have the chance to "level up". Personally I don't give two shits about experience points or levels, I would just like the AP to have a separate voting system. that way Users in the AP can better control the scores of other users in the AP. There are some people who have written thousands of reviews in the AP, and only a handful in the FP. I understand that there is a system in place, and in the end, that it is the users that are abusing the system that make it so shitty. I guess my point is this...

Give the AP It's own separate Experience system so that those who call the AP home may have the power in their domain.

and give the AP more trophy opportunities!!!


Smoke me, I'm dope.

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YouriX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-01-05 08:33:55 Reply

Give the AP It's own separate Experience system so that those who call the AP home may have the power in their domain.

and give the AP more trophy opportunities!!!

The trophy idea seems kinda cool. But i think they'll use other words like. platinum album or gold album or even worse NG album. that would be nice.

CWN
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-01-05 11:03:32 Reply

I really liked the idea that you can only vote after like 30 seconds into hearing the song.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-01-05 13:41:29 Reply

wasn´t reading the whole postings, so maybe someone had the same idea:
the loss of voting power:
for 10 votes (for example) you have the full voting power
for the next 5 votes half of the voting power
for the next 5 votes you have 1/4 voting power
then for the rest of your votes you have the normal voting power of a beginner.
maybe combined with the idea of cwn (above).
it makes a bit sense to me, cause I watched, that the big ones here in NG with the big voting power
make the most damage. and we all know, why.
so give the voting power back to the people, who really enjoy our music.

Zero123Music
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-01-05 16:07:02 Reply

Zero-Bombers... sigh

are there really people who vote zero on everything?
or is it people thinking of an excuse for their latest song, that they are proud of getting a low score?

I have never known a zero-bomber but in this sense - I have been hit by many. My last song Planetoid has bad score, and an 8/10 review - leaving a comment that should be on a 9/10 review

At first - I thought the people at the audio portal generally didn't like my music, but I don't care if someone reviews with a 0, cause at least they have the guts to admit they don't like it!

anyways -I read we are supposed to talk about construction of music and stuff.
so here:

I find if a good riff repeats, it is more likely for the listener to relate to it and enjoy it;
if a person reapeats that riff too much - it gets boring and annoying, it is this balance that makes beautiful music I find.

Plus - chords are the very structure, normally chords are used that the listener is expecting,
but pull off a nice chord that is not expected - then it is all the more interesting.

Hope everything is ok with the rules of the thread and NG rules xD

oh! and another good way of exposure is this forum - start collabs, meet new people like I have in the last 3 days (the Piano Collab)

>>Zero123Music