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Zerovoting and Exposure.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 19th, 2009 @ 12:28 PM Reply

At 10/27/09 02:01 PM, jarrydn wrote: It's like when I try to give up WoW.

making music and submitting it to newgrounds is a horrible addiction!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 19th, 2009 @ 09:40 PM Reply

it's my turn to speak of the injustice. whats really funny is when i make a cover of a video game song i get like 10 "5's" in a row and reviews. then i make an original song the next day and i get like 4 votes and its always a mediocre score

but i try to balance in my mind whether my music actually sucks that bad or its newgrounds being discriminative and lame

so there's my rant


"I want to care but I just... don't" -Me
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 20th, 2009 @ 01:04 AM Reply

I just happened to read some posts here and think that EoD696's comments on this page make a lot of sense. If you consider yourself a serious musician, you easily start to feel dumb for submitting music here. A good friend of mine who's an industry composer looked for a place to distribute some of his free music, so I recomended him to give it a shot on the NG Audio Portal. It just took a week after he removed all of his content due to a lot of bad luck. I felt pretty embarrassed after that and will surely think twice before recommending that place a second time.

I'm not sure what the creators had in mind regarding the kind of reputation of this place. Posting music here whatsoever, seems like a desperate approach sometimes.


Denny Schneidemesser, composer for Film & Media. www.dennyschneidemesser.com

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 20th, 2009 @ 12:41 PM Reply

At 11/19/09 09:40 PM, krssvr wrote: it's my turn to speak of the injustice. whats really funny is when i make a cover of a video game song i get like 10 "5's" in a row and reviews. then i make an original song the next day and i get like 4 votes and its always a mediocre score

but i try to balance in my mind whether my music actually sucks that bad or its newgrounds being discriminative and lame
so there's my rant

exactly, thats what i noticed.
The portal is filled with remixes of existing vg tracks getting high scores. But when someone makes an original melody its often ignored or blammed, why? Because people cant bring themselves to actively listen? Or do they not know how to? Can they only bare what they already know?

hm...


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 20th, 2009 @ 01:11 PM Reply

It seems to me the solution would be to store every vote made by a user in a database and calculate statistics to show on the users profile, only viewable by moderators and administrators.

If you have a high amount of zero-votes you will get a temp ban.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 21st, 2009 @ 05:57 AM Reply

At 11/20/09 01:11 PM, Whittaker wrote: It seems to me the solution would be to store every vote made by a user in a database and calculate statistics to show on the users profile, only viewable by moderators and administrators.

If you have a high amount of zero-votes you will get a temp ban.

I disagree... what if there's someone who by coincedence found a lot of spam on the portal and zero-voted them all. It's unlikely, but I'm sure you've heard of authors whose submissions are all either 2-second voice-acting submissions recorded on a half-broken mike with no effort put into them at all, or some collection of loops they found as default presets that came with their DAW. What if someone finds one of these authors and zero-votes all of their self-voted songs because they deserved it? Your suggestion would help take away zero-bombing but it could also interfere with ordinary voting.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 03:22 AM Reply

Hey, i know i haven't posted much on the forums, but i do have an idea that may work without having to change much of anything. Maybe I'm the only one that does this, but usually I have an idea of what a song should get from a 0 to 5 when listening to it. Than I vote accordingly and usually if i'm doing a review, it's the review divided by 2. I do this weird numbers thing in my head and each of the 1-10 stars count for something, or if it's a song i favorite, it's a definite 5. If it's good but not something i would favorite or download, its a 4. Now, if there were a way to see how much your vote would affect the outcome of the score BEFORE you placed it, than you could vote better according to what you think the vote should be.

For example. Say the song has a vote of 2.23 (just a random number) and you think that it's a bit of an unfair number that it should be more of a 3.0 or higher. If you were able to see that voting a 3 would only bring it up to a 2.53, as opposed to voting 5 to bring it to a 2.99, than maybe you would vote more according to what you felt the overall score should be. Does that make sense? Seems to me that it would help curve the zero bombing affect. Even if somebody could make some sort of outside APP that you could bring up that you could plug the numbers in to calculate what votes would affect what....i mean, kind of a pain, but i would definitely use it.

Another problem, and this is one that I've even fell into. Is that musicians can be a bit vain. Maybe it's just me, but i've posted songs and than just sat there, waiting for votes, or check on it everyonce and awhile between facebook or youtube, or whatever crap. Without even regarding, or voting on other people's music. If we want it to be fair, than we're going to have to self regulate the audio portal. Look out for each other. Make a rule for yourself. Say you post one song, than go through and vote on all the rest of the songs on the list. Without zerobombing of course, unless, like somebody mentioned, it's utter crap with somebody screeching or something horrible like that. Or, pick a genre that your interested in, and go through the music and vote for songs you like. I find it hard to vote on music i know next to nothing about, so i try and stick to indie. But i have found some really good songs in there with votes of 0, that i single handedly bumped to the top of the page. Now, i don't know about ya'll, but that gives me a major power trip E-BONER when i do that.

In closing, i really don't think we can blame anybody else but ourselves. People wouldn't resort to zerobombing if others would take the time to give them a bit of exposure. Because that's what they're looking for isn't it? Just a pat on the back? Or some constructive criticism? I know we have the review crew, but maybe it should be expanded. Maybe we should put together an Audio Crew, that's broken down into Genre's. Because, like i said, i don't think it's fair to review on a Genre that's unfamiliar or that uses software your unfamiliar with. Unless of course it's an utter piece of crap or a brilliant piece of work. And i feel the same about flash submissions. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Maybe someone can poke some holes in my logic and wake me up.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 07:51 AM Reply

At 11/23/09 07:23 AM, ParagonX9 wrote: LOL 4.33 LOL

ohh jermain :P

slaps with oversized dongle.

TEH DONGLE SLAP!


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 09:49 AM Reply

At 11/23/09 07:23 AM, ParagonX9 wrote: LOL 4.33 LOL

I know how to get your songs higher. collab with me.

you want 4 million hits, 100,000 votes and 4.55, you know who to call

its the only way to defeat the bombers!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 11:13 AM Reply

At 11/21/09 05:57 AM, Supersteph54 wrote:
Your suggestion would help take away zero-bombing but it could also interfere with ordinary voting.

Yea yesterday i gave a track a 1 because it was an absolute piece of shit, and it even was in the best of all time (8bitfist)
I mean... are you serious? I did review it.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 11:22 AM Reply

why dont you guys just be content that every song on newgrounds doesnt deserve a score of 4.99 - you've all gotten spoiled - before the redesign the average song score was 3.79.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 11:24 AM Reply

also clupphead crews liek that are against newground's rules. Official ones neways.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 11:30 AM Reply

At 11/23/09 11:22 AM, Chronamut wrote: why dont you guys just be content that every song on newgrounds doesnt deserve a score of 4.99 - you've all gotten spoiled - before the redesign the average song score was 3.79.

Where does any of us say that we arent content with our average scores, we arent content with people abusing the voting system, probably cant be fixed but everyone is entitled to have a say about it.

Most of my tracks are around 3.00 some of my best music is around 2.00


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 03:19 PM Reply

At 11/23/09 11:24 AM, Chronamut wrote: also clupphead crews liek that are against newground's rules. Official ones neways.

How is that against the rules? If we put together a group that suggests songs that have been overlooked? I'm not saying to put a group together that zero bombs or 5 rockets every song, but one that would review them and maybe help bump their score. Hell, isn't that kind of what the treasure hunt thing is about? Finding buried gems and giving them a little love?

And i understand that regular voting would be thrown off a bit, but the audio portal has a bit of a different dynamic than the Flash portal. Maybe it does need a bit of a tweek when it comes to voting. Or, maybe they should give more voting power to those who have a better history of reviewing. I mean, for the flash portal, you get blam and save voting power, so why not do that with the audio portal but instead with a bonus that comes from past reviews that were well received? I'm sure that in time they would abuse that one too, but it's an idea. It would bring more reviews and exposure to audio music with people knowing there's some sort of incentive involved to do so.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 23rd, 2009 @ 06:05 PM Reply

At 11/23/09 03:19 PM, CluppHead wrote:
At 11/23/09 11:24 AM, Chronamut wrote: also clupphead crews liek that are against newground's rules. Official ones neways.

Ok, so i did some searching on the BBS and read a few attempts at people trying to start a pyramid scheme with their music. So, i can see where that would be an issue. And i guess there is an audio advertisement forum as well. My idea was people looking for good tunes, without advertising their own. Although, that probably wouldn't stop somebody from making a bunk account to advertise their music.

It would, however, be nice if the advertisement thread were broken down into genre's. I get kind of tired listening to the same FL Loops music, with small twists, or the same beats. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes i like to listen to something easy, classic, or even blues at times. Indie.....etc etc. Techno and trance is so overkilled on this site. There's just way to much, i feel like that some of those guys need to try branching out and trying something else. Or add some freakin vocals for christ's sake. LOL....

Ok, that was an unnecessary rant, but yeah. Chances are nobody would take the time to join a club, just as they do not take the time to review music....because people can be selfish in nature. Which..... gotta admit, i've been selfish at times too.

Any rate, i'll just keep doin what i'm doing, search for some gold, add them to my favorites, and come back to them and vote every so often. Maybe i'll join the review crew and put some tunes up for review for them.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Nov. 28th, 2009 @ 04:40 PM Reply

At 11/23/09 06:05 PM, CluppHead wrote: And i guess there is an audio advertisement forum as well.

Ugh, I hate that thread X(. I posted two songs up on that thread, and never got any new reviews, and probably almost just as many listens as I would've had if I didn't advertise. That place is just a To-Do List for 0-bombers, IMO. It's a good thread concept, but just like everything else that has to do with audio on NG, it's abused.

It would, however, be nice if the advertisement thread were broken down into genre's. I get kind of tired listening to the same FL Loops music, with small twists, or the same beats. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes i like to listen to something easy, classic, or even blues at times. Indie.....etc etc. Techno and trance is so overkilled on this site. There's just way to much, i feel like that some of those guys need to try branching out and trying something else. Or add some freakin vocals for christ's sake. LOL....

Having it broken down into genres isn't a bad idea, but it's just not possible. It's impossible (up to date) to split a thread into different sections, so the only way of doing it is having an advertisement thread for every genre, but then, having 10's of advertisement threads populating the front page of the audio forum isn't what people want, since other threads will move down the page much more quickly, and enter page 2 before you know it, only to then probably become forgotten, and also, soon enough, the non-popular genres such as Indie, Ska, Goth, Bluegrass, etc, will get forgotten and enter the depths of the 5+ pages of the AF, so it would be useless having them anyway if nobody advertises in them and forget about them because they're far from page 1. Hehe, long sentence XD.

Ok, that was an unnecessary rant

Yes, it was unnecessary. Lol, joking :P.

but yeah. Chances are nobody would take the time to join a club, just as they do not take the time to review music....because people can be selfish in nature. Which..... gotta admit, i've been selfish at times too.

If you look on other music-hosting sites, practically every review over there can be considered a review. Over here, practically 90% of all reviews can be considered YouTube comments. The problem probably started with one person posting one-liners, and every new reviewer would see his/her one-liners and think "Oh, this is how you review on Newgrounds?' and do the same. I mean, have you ever heard of an (non-alt) account which has its first reviews more than 5 lines, because I seriously haven't heard of any (my first reviews were 1-3 liners too, because NG was covered with them, and I thought this was a place where long reviews aren't needed back then, so I did like everyone else, even though now my audio reviews are monstrous). That way, having a club like you suggested could end up increasing the amount of one-liners, unless you make restrictions that the review should be long, but then it would be practically an exact copy of the Review Request Club.

Any rate, i'll just keep doin what i'm doing, search for some gold, add them to my favorites, and come back to them and vote every so often.

Yeah, I usually like 5-bombing songs a little when they were 0-bombed so much. I mean, there are some REALLY good songs around with only around 3.00 as their score, and since in my opinion, the score should be larger, I boost it up to at least 4.20. At least then, there's more of a chance of people checking those songs out.

Maybe i'll join the review crew and put some tunes up for review for them.

That would be a big help. Us members of the Review Request Club (link in my sig) give decent reviews, and all of us here on NG know that the one thing an artist would want wouldn't be votes, downloads, or listens, but honest, decent, well-written reviews. If anyone wants a submission of theirs reviewed, that is the place to request, and if you really want to be helpful, you can join the club too.

There's also the Underdog thread which is much better than the Audio Advertisements thread. You won't get much of a chace to get reviews if you self-nominate, but if you nominate another artist as an Underdog, s/he will get a little more exposure. I mean, whenever I see a new post on that thread with the link to an artist, I always think 'why does this person like that artist's music so much?' and I often check out their music, and sometimes review too.

Seriously, threads like those should be stickies, instead of occasionally bouncing around from Page 1, to 2, to 3, and back to 1 again. As a matter of fact, this thready should be a sticky too...


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Dec. 1st, 2009 @ 08:07 AM Reply

Dude...all my shit got bombed today...like someone went on my page and specifically bombed everything..you know you've reached AWESOME when someone is TRYING to sabotage you...i'm honored..really...i never thought this would happen...(sniff) thank you...


SONIC!!! LOOK!!! THAT FISH HAS A GUN!!!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Dec. 1st, 2009 @ 10:46 AM Reply

Dude...all my shit got bombed today...like someone went on my page and specifically bombed everything..you know you've reached AWESOME when someone is TRYING to sabotage you...i'm honored..really...i never thought this would happen...(sniff) thank you...

congratulations. you have officially reach audio portal level 5.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Dec. 1st, 2009 @ 02:47 PM Reply

At 12/1/09 08:07 AM, Ritz190 wrote: Dude...all my shit got bombed today...like someone went on my page and specifically bombed everything..you know you've reached AWESOME when someone is TRYING to sabotage you...i'm honored..really...i never thought this would happen...(sniff) thank you...

Happened to me too a few times, i take it as a compliment of people being angry with me and because they have no arguements resort to clicking the buttons.

aw, in my day we would just listen to loud music and sit in the corner of the room.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Mar. 25th, 2010 @ 11:55 AM Reply

At 11/23/09 07:23 AM, ParagonX9 wrote: LOL 4.33 LOL

LOL 4.38 IN YOUR FACE X9! >:D LOL

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Mar. 25th, 2010 @ 02:56 PM Reply

At 3/25/10 11:55 AM, pokerockmario wrote:
At 11/23/09 07:23 AM, ParagonX9 wrote: LOL 4.33 LOL
LOL 4.38 IN YOUR FACE X9! >:D LOL

Hey man it's against the rules to bump any old topic without new information relevant to the thread discussion...

(no backseat modding intended)

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Mar. 27th, 2010 @ 07:22 AM Reply

At 3/25/10 02:56 PM, Supersteph54 wrote:
At 3/25/10 11:55 AM, pokerockmario wrote:
At 11/23/09 07:23 AM, ParagonX9 wrote: LOL 4.33 LOL
LOL 4.38 IN YOUR FACE X9! >:D LOL
Hey man it's against the rules to bump any old topic without new information relevant to the thread discussion...

(no backseat modding intended)

oh sorry :/

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Apr. 18th, 2010 @ 08:10 PM Reply

Dude, you are just way to awesome. Thumbs up to you! lol


Positive feedback, positive feedback!!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jun. 22nd, 2010 @ 01:25 PM Reply

At 12/1/09 08:07 AM, Ritz190 wrote: Dude...all my shit got bombed today...like someone went on my page and specifically bombed everything..you know you've reached AWESOME when someone is TRYING to sabotage you...i'm honored..really...i never thought this would happen...(sniff) thank you...

Hur Hur Derp, I liek to 5 bomb your songs. XD Seriously, I feel yer pain though, oh wait, you feel accomplished? That's beautiful.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Sep. 25th, 2010 @ 09:57 PM Reply

At 12/1/09 08:07 AM, Ritz190 wrote: Dude...all my shit got bombed today...like someone went on my page and specifically bombed everything..you know you've reached AWESOME when someone is TRYING to sabotage you...i'm honored..really...i never thought this would happen...(sniff) thank you...

I know! The same thing has been happening to all of my stuff in the Heavy Metal genre. My other songs aren't getting much abuse but someone is dedicatedly going to every one of my Metal songs and 0ing them.

I think it's a weirdo form of flattery that someone recognizes your skill enough to know that if your music is left unzeroed, then it very well could rise to the top and dwarf any minor achievements that the zeroer might pump out.

Flattering, but still incredibly frustrating.


Stay in School? Don't do drugs? Screw that, both Steve Jobs AND Hitler dropped out! And they both took drugs! That's how you make history, fool. Don't be average. Be awesome.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Sep. 27th, 2010 @ 08:09 PM Reply

I see alot of whiners..

My shit gets bombed every day, infact whilst i write this im alomost certain that something ive posted is getting bombed for something, maybe its just. Maybe its just rubbish and we cant actually see it after hearing the same thing for hours on end?

The only way around this vicious circle is to make something so amazing that you get more 5's than twats.

Easier said than done.

You gotta remember that the #1 track most likely gets more 0 than anyone. What does that say for humanity?

We're all fucked.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Sep. 28th, 2010 @ 08:01 PM Reply

wow, just wow.. i havent been active for a week and a half whatsoever, no new music uploaded, no comments on forums.. and ive been zerobombde again, someone must really feel angry that i 'exist' or something.

So when are mods finally going to (no, wait for it, its not the same old measure) delete the audio portal wholly since obviously nothing of the portal is legit anymore with this going on and even though alot of us zero bomb victims (sad faic) do not give a shit about the race for pointless top 50 i mean bullshit attainment its beyond annoying to see actual music being pissed on by musically incompetent hearing impaired 10 year olds that come either from 4chan or from being molested in their schools after class, kicking defenseless cat (his name is chad, the cats name that is, named after the molester) into a corner on the way to their rooms, then sit behind their 486 pc and then have the nerve to click a classical work of calamaistr and somehow expecting 50 cent meets unts unts unts garbage they have the nerve to give it a 0.

Or they are imbeciles of the highest degree also known as trolls and just do it in an attempt to piss me off and then laugh at my posting in the zerovoting and exposure topic, if thats the case then i hope the person gets fingercancer, try clicking your mouse again after you complete 'contrast of a musician' who does it.

im not angry, just voicing the actual composers of this community's side.
(no i dont want anything to be done, nothing can be done and thats a fact. I just want to let know i too have been tired of this subject for a long time now)


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. pm me for (free) hire, depending on your project i will make you a ost.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Sep. 28th, 2010 @ 08:44 PM Reply

Wow, my latest submissions have fallen quite a bit now... it makes me sad. Pfft, nah, not really.

Still...

4.43, bitches.

Zerovoting and Exposure.


Listen to and download Ultima Eternus in MP3 right here on NG or buy the lossless version! Srsly, buy it. >:c

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Sep. 28th, 2010 @ 09:26 PM Reply

A lot of times, the first vote I get is a 0.

If someone hates my stuff so bad that they want me to die in a fire, I have no choice but to believe that they are too mentally retarded to understand what I'm doing with my music.

Then again, I could just be one of those arrogant pretentious composer types who wears funny hats and long scarfs.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Sep. 30th, 2010 @ 11:00 AM Reply

one thing i think that having people vote on the songs, as opposed to other meathods used, is that you know then what the general consensus was on how good the work you have made was.

of course theres the review club, and uderdog list and such, but i dont feel these achieve the same level of general feedback as the voting would. as in you can see that in general out of 50 people the general votes say that yours songs shit. as opposed to 150 people have listened to it with 2 votes and your woderig, is it shit?

i realise that me typing this isn't really solving the situation, its just ive seen a lot of people saying things along the lines of voting isn't important, and just though id give a little counter argument to that. i dont intend to offend anyone with this, or belittle the current system.

anyway im off to eat a potato