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Zerovoting and Exposure.

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XxX-WOLF-XxX
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-01-24 00:58:01 Reply

So I just uploaded a song called ~On Sanity~ and i decide to check up on it and i see one vote and im like YES! I look at the score and its 0.00

All I could do was laugh.

~WOLF~

EchozAurora
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-02 23:21:21 Reply

FUCKING SHIT.

I wouldn't have bumped this thread... buttttt.....

I think the motherfucker who made an autozero script a while back is back.

I was just tune-scouting for an RG set I'm about to do... (Another all-ng set).. when I clicked the techno chart.. and noticed a bunch of songs I was looking at completely disappeared.. I then went back in my browser to the last song I was on and noticed it's score had dropped significantly.

I was like.. well.. maybe they're just trying to level out that genre?.. so.. I went back to scouting..

Then.. I shit you not.. like.. 2 minutes later... the same thing happened to trance..

Including mah new song >=[

Whole fucking page at minimum just disappeared.

We seriously need some kind of protection against mass-bombing. It had to be a script. It was a near-instantaneous full wipe of most of NG. I'm assuming from the same IP.


At 1/16/12 03:08 AM, Xyresic wrote: EchozAurora: The SEXY Audio Mod.
Check out soundcloud.com/echozaurora for more recent songs and DJ mixes!

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Kr1z
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-03 04:13:42 Reply

At 2/2/09 11:21 PM, EchozAurora wrote: I think the motherfucker who made an autozero script a while back is back.

I just saw the weirdest thing:
I was in the dance charts, and when I refreshed, all of a sudden the song on #2 dissapeared :/
I refreshed again, and another song was gone, this kept going on till like 30 songs were gone ..
:/

zero voting script?? Bah! -_-

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-03 04:40:17 Reply

At 2/3/09 04:13 AM, Kr1z wrote:
At 2/2/09 11:21 PM, EchozAurora wrote: I think the motherfucker who made an autozero script a while back is back.
I just saw the weirdest thing:
I was in the dance charts, and when I refreshed, all of a sudden the song on #2 dissapeared :/
I refreshed again, and another song was gone, this kept going on till like 30 songs were gone ..
/
zero voting script?? Bah! -_-

Yeah.. kinda like how there is a post limit on an IP... we need something similar for voting to prevent this from happening.

Like.. I dunno.. 5 votes per 30 minutes. That'll make scripts harder to make.. and less effective. It'll slow down mass-voting in general too, which couldn't hurt.

Oh yeah.. btw.. been spinnin your tunes Kr1z on RG. Good stuff.


At 1/16/12 03:08 AM, Xyresic wrote: EchozAurora: The SEXY Audio Mod.
Check out soundcloud.com/echozaurora for more recent songs and DJ mixes!

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Kr1z
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-03 05:32:05 Reply

At 2/3/09 04:40 AM, EchozAurora wrote: Like.. I dunno.. 5 votes per 30 minutes. That'll make scripts harder to make.. and less effective. It'll slow down mass-voting in general too, which couldn't hurt.

Good idea!

Oh yeah.. btw.. been spinnin your tunes Kr1z on RG. Good stuff.

Hihi thx ;D I'll tune in some time

PianoFortress
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-03 05:34:31 Reply

just vote every song 5 like I do, kkthxbye.

Kr1z
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-03 05:38:18 Reply

At 2/3/09 05:34 AM, PianoForte wrote: just vote every song 5 like I do, kkthxbye.

Reminds me of the 5 team, who voted 5 on every song (that had at least effort in it)
There was soo much hating against our team that we had to stop it :S

Rucklo
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-11 14:02:55 Reply

I've been rather easy with what you can say in this thread, but it is NOT supposed to be a thread for WHINING about zero-voters - frankly, that shit don't belong on the forums.
Serious discussion do belong in here - but whine you can do in your godforsaken blog, see if anyone cares above the "OMFG I GUT HIT TOO" comment.

At 2/2/09 11:21 PM, EchozAurora wrote: I think the motherfucker who made an autozero script a while back is back.

auto-zero script is a bullshit rumour that started out of nowhere. Some just think it's nice to have something to cry about, when their songs get struck down with zeros.

"autozeroscript" = boogeyman; nonexistant.
Please do not bring autozero-script up unlesss you have PROOF that something is going on. And if you DO have, direct to a moderator, or IN CASE THE PROOF IS ABSOLUTLEY COMPLETLEY BULLETPROOF - to an admin. If there is the slightest doubt, contact a mod in the first place, we've heard and seen more than most regulars and can possibly come with a reasonable explanation. If not, we will let you know so you can contact an admin yourself. This is only to spare the time of the admins, so they can work on real NG-features instead of chasing ghosts and imaginary scripts..


Join the Newgrounds Battlefield 3 Platoon (for PC)! DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR GAME CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR, UH, NEWGROUNDS! ON BATTLEFIELD 3. eh...

Hades
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-11 14:10:53 Reply

I'm not really sure if we can exclude zero-voting scripts as a whole, R. I mean, if you take a look at the Industrial section, you'll see that the score is dropping every single day. And I should know, because I'm the kind of guy that checks his scores all of the time (read: egocentric), so I can freely say that the ENTIRE genre drops by roughly -0.01 every few days. I can't accept the fact that I live on the same planet with someone who is ready to downvote every sing in a genre on a daily basis. As small as penises tend to get, that would be a little over the top.


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Rucklo
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-11 14:20:53 Reply

scripts such as that would easily be discovered by the admins, and dropping scores is in no way a proof for such existances.

when the redesign hit, you could vote on songs more than once - one unique vote was all you had before. so, naturally people started to upvote their stuff, and i mean, compare the scores with flash-portal submissions... 4.10 is something REALLY GOOD in there, in the AP it's possibly somewhat mediocre. The system needs more time and votes to even things out, the biggest "problem" is that there aren't enough people voting in the first place, to level the scores out and make them decent. This is why there are rathe big differences in the scores from day to day.

however, the forum is still no place to spread rumours that noone can verify.


Join the Newgrounds Battlefield 3 Platoon (for PC)! DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR GAME CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR, UH, NEWGROUNDS! ON BATTLEFIELD 3. eh...

SymbolCymbal
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-11 16:36:32 Reply

i really dont care about zero bombers anymore... but it woul be cool to have separate icons fr audio aritist or separate icons for audio voting.. kinda like the level up flash system.. yeah its been said before .. yeah i know wrong thread.. yeah i know red wine makes people loopy .. yeah i know drinking red bull with it IS NOT a good idea

Krank
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-11 17:41:50 Reply

zero bombers blow ass. but everyone in this thread has done it.

EVERYONE

so stop whining. I have, and I'm much happier nao!

DarkRider2000
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-12 13:49:49 Reply

At 2/11/09 05:41 PM, Bjra wrote: zero bombers blow ass. but everyone in this thread has done it.

EVERYONE

so stop whining. I have, and I'm much happier nao!

speak for yourself, I give my zeros comparing works, I usually hand out five to most of the songs I ear, to flash it could go the same, besides don't go whining when someone zero-votes you!!! just go and ask for someone to five-vote you XD

Kaizerwolf
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-12 16:47:33 Reply

Hmm... having to submit a comment on why the song was bombed zero is a good idea, and having comments when voting 5's on songs is good as well. This can help eliminate users who vote on their own songs hoping for Top 30 or Weekly Top 5.


How about you join the NGPD? Just what is the Newgrounds Police Dept.? Click the link and find out for yourself!

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pitbulljones
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-12 16:54:28 Reply

you know, best part of a year of not posting, i bob on and some things never change! It warms my heart to see that everyone still has the same problems i face everytime i dare post a song haha. All is good in the world it seems.


Latest Track Shine On
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If you like my music leave a review, message me for a review. My music's free to use just credit me!

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Zero123Music
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-13 05:06:18 Reply

At 2/12/09 04:47 PM, Kaizerwolf wrote: Hmm... having to submit a comment on why the song was bombed zero is a good idea, and having comments when voting 5's on songs is good as well. This can help eliminate users who vote on their own songs hoping for Top 30 or Weekly Top 5.

Thar should be an extra comment list (seperate to reviews) so everyone that votes has to comment, 0, 5 or whatever - saying a word or two to sum it up.

Kinda like a chatbox thing where it lets you flag abusive comments and has the vote they gave next to the comment - but if that happened the script of the audio voting would have to be changed.

People would be scared to 0 bomb for no reason for fear of us knowing who it is.

anyways_ about that rumor on the auto 0 scripts; if there are auto 0 bomb scripts, can't we just make auto-5 scripts?

*btw I know the first bit should be the MK3 evolution thread so it's going in there nao :)

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-13 08:11:07 Reply

Theres a small problem with that though... it would create a whole new breed of 1 voters, which means that you would have to either have to submit comments on all or non.


How about you join the NGPD? Just what is the Newgrounds Police Dept.? Click the link and find out for yourself!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-13 09:49:30 Reply

At 2/13/09 08:11 AM, Kaizerwolf wrote: Theres a small problem with that though... it would create a whole new breed of 1 voters, which means that you would have to either have to submit comments on all or non.

when I said 0, 5 - I meant 0 to 5 (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) xD misunderstanding, sorry^^

That's why I wonder about the amount of people who won't bother voting because they have to leave a comment, and can't be bothered; thus, the script would need to be changed.

Kaizerwolf
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-13 16:59:10 Reply

Also true. (misunderstanding was fine ^^) I do believe you are right in saying that because of comments, voting would become almost as tiresome as writing reviews. There would begin to be small comments of "fkjhg *enter key* " and the like. Voting would be considerably downsized if comments were needed, so i think just dealing with 0 Bombers is a better choice.


How about you join the NGPD? Just what is the Newgrounds Police Dept.? Click the link and find out for yourself!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-13 17:26:30 Reply

yea, this IS an awesome topic! that was a nice thing i found the link... :)


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No life, no good.

sdfmusic
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-13 17:29:09 Reply

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1028 236

This is my solution to the problem. I honestly think it deserves it's own thread.

Zero123Music
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-13 22:28:16 Reply

At 2/13/09 04:59 PM, Kaizerwolf wrote: Also true. (misunderstanding was fine ^^) I do believe you are right in saying that because of comments, voting would become almost as tiresome as writing reviews. There would begin to be small comments of "fkjhg *enter key* " and the like. Voting would be considerably downsized if comments were needed, so i think just dealing with 0 Bombers is a better choice.

Then we could flag as spam - an automated system could block a users IP for a week or something with 2 recorded spams.

sdfmusic
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-14 00:21:59 Reply

At 2/13/09 05:29 PM, sdfmusic wrote: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1028 236

This is my solution to the problem. I honestly think it deserves it's own thread.

Let me reduce this for you guys:

You join this self-governing club, vote on changes to it's policies/"moderators" of it-- the NG staff doesn't have to do anything, and you all get more reviews on your music, and thus more exposure.

By way of good faith, and tradition- "citizens" of the club decide whether or not it is right for them to continue using the services of the club-- wearing their "/signed" badge, and outlaws are handled by simply ignoring them.

It's a simple solution to all of the zero-voting and exposure issues plaguing the AP!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-21 02:13:07 Reply

What I'm starting to notice is I can't tell if my songs are good or not through the score. its just about damn near impossible these days. my songs are bombarded with zero's.

Maybe i ened to stick to some more generic shit. some midi rip vg remixes

Cuzone
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-21 02:25:04 Reply

The reason why zero voting is a problem here is simple: Nobody votes on songs.

If you go to the flash portal and try to zero someone, probably your vote will be worth "0.0002" or something like that, since NOBODY and I mean NOBODY has any motivation to vote on songs (no Experience points, no Blam/Save points, Blam and Save points don't count as multipliers), most people just listen to the songs and don't vote, but, when someone go and zero your song, really affects your score.

I really think the audio portal voting should give people experience, like: 5 points on flash, 5 points on audio. Blam and Saving should be in place too, I really think this would motivate people.


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babyma
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-28 18:50:02 Reply

A few songs I submitted in current times received scores significantly lower than when I submitted them a little over a year ago. There is not much we can do to change the zero-bombing, but there is stuff we can do to detect it and help prevent its effects.

First, make the number of votes per score visible for each song. e.g.:
5: 1 vote
4: 0 votes
3: 0 votes
2: 0 votes
1: 0 votes
0: 15094 votes
This facilitates actual "zero-bomber" detection.

Second, make it a requirement for a person to listen to an entire song before being able to rate. After all, if they haven't listened to the entire thing (or at least turned the volume down while they waited for the song to finish) then they shouldn't be qualified to rate it.

Third, make the "zero" vote count less for those users who consistently vote zero on songs, because there is a greater chance that they are zero-bombers than people who only occasionally vote zeros. A similar voting system has been implemented on IMDB, where the votes of people who consistently vote 0s and 10s count less whenever they vote 0s or 10s respectively.

Fourth, although this may be pushing it a bit, restrict voting temporarily (e.g. a few days) for those who consistently zero-bomb; this acts as a clear consequence to their zero-bombing behavior.

Everlasting-Elements
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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-28 19:13:52 Reply

At 2/13/09 05:06 AM, Zero123Music wrote: People would be scared to 0 bomb for no reason for fear of us knowing who it is.

Not that this is a bad idea, but wouldn't that be kind of wrong? Basically, it'd be like changing the voting system in the US. If people knew who I was voting for, there would be no need for voting booths. Zero bombing sucks, so I think it'd be much better that reviews and votes go together. Like this.
In order to review, you must vote, and vice versa. However, we don't get to know what they vote, we just get to see our review. Then, I think NG or someone, should be able to screen the reviews before they're submitted. But that would take a large team of people, wouldn't it?


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-02-28 19:24:31 Reply

I really think the audio portal voting should give people experience, like: 5 points on flash, 5 points on audio. Blam and Saving should be in place too, I really think this would motivate people.

this comment makes the most sence NG must motivade people to vote fairly on the subimissions!

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-03-01 04:07:31 Reply

At 2/28/09 07:13 PM, Everlasting-Elements wrote:
At 2/13/09 05:06 AM, Zero123Music wrote: People would be scared to 0 bomb for no reason for fear of us knowing who it is.
Not that this is a bad idea, but wouldn't that be kind of wrong? Basically, it'd be like changing the voting system in the US. If people knew who I was voting for, there would be no need for voting booths.

What would be wrong with having no voting booths?

"WHat!? You ain't voting for Obama!? IMA BLOW A CAP ON YO BITCHASS!"

Seriously, music is not politics and art elsewhere gets graded by people and judges who voice their opinions and explanations. Like I said in the first page of the thread, i'm all for making the votes non-anonmyous or the review having weight on the VP. you'll definetly open up more problems but in this rubix cube of a situation but it's all about which side you want to land on. Apparently, the ideals of NG are not for the possible solutions that have been presented in this thread thus far.


If your work isn't worth fighting for, it's not worth uploading on NG, period. (JrHager84)

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2009-03-01 06:41:08 Reply

Why note change the system so it makes it better?
It would get rid of 0 bombing and keep things anonymous to a certain degree.

Make it so that whenever a person votes, they need to give a valid explaination why they voted that. That way the artist will get more critique.
If it was 0 bombed, the voter would have to give a very good explaination why. For the case of the audio portal, make it so that only MEMBERS can vote. So that if it was 0 bombed, and the explaination was shitty like "it sucked" or no explaination at all, the 0 bomb would get reported to a mod, and thereafter would maybe ban the user. The artist wouldn't know who 0 bombed (although that might be a big blow to the balls), but the artist would know that 0 bombers are going away 1 at a time.
The same might be for the 5 bombers too.