Be a Supporter!

Zerovoting and Exposure.

  • 47,014 Views
  • 727 Replies
New Topic Respond to this Topic
sarias
sarias
  • Member since: Jun. 7, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 10
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 25th, 2008 @ 01:42 PM Reply

At 7/25/08 08:53 AM, HiniberusDelius wrote: An idea to prevent the 0 bombers is to have the name of the person (username) and how much they voted. If you see the same person doing the same thing to others then you should be able to report this to an admin and have them banned from voting. Hell if they aren't doing anything good for the portal(s) why let them vote?

I'd say this is a reasonable idea and one that shouldn't take too much time to make and implement. Mind you I know nothing of programming so I could be completely wrong and it could be hard as fuck. Though I do think that this should be used for the sake of audio and even flash artists.

you cant do that because people are immature and would vote the same you voted on, and that would be stupid, its fine that you dont know who it is, either make it so people can only vote once, or make it so you have to listen to the song before you vote cause im pretty sure zero bombers wont sit there for 3-5 minutes in those really long songs, just to vote zero, i mean some might but i bet most wouldn't

loogiesquared
loogiesquared
  • Member since: Apr. 15, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 15
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 25th, 2008 @ 01:47 PM Reply

I don't really like this topic, stop bumping it, ppl.

loogiesquared
loogiesquared
  • Member since: Apr. 15, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 15
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 25th, 2008 @ 04:53 PM Reply

At 7/25/08 04:48 PM, Neodrummer wrote:
At 7/25/08 04:46 PM, Neodrummer wrote:
At 7/25/08 01:47 PM, loogiesquared wrote: I don't really like this topic, stop bumping it, ppl.
If you dont like this topic.. they did you pump it?

OOOooooOOoooOoOooOO burn :3
Woops.. i meant bump ;P lol.

Sorry for the double post :/

damn it, neo you ARE getting a BRAND NEW sig!!!

Krank
Krank
  • Member since: Apr. 23, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 14
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 25th, 2008 @ 05:00 PM Reply

hate to get off topic. but his sig is awwwwweeeesssooooomme.

don't dis neo's sig, or you'll have to go through me first. and that will be hard, cuz I'm tangible.

oh yeha, back on topic. zero voting bites moneky nipple hairy ball sac titties. But we all know this. People either complain about how much zero voting sucks, or defend zero bombing becuase it's the opposite end of the argument, just for the sake of arguments. I'm done, there's far better sites for exposure. Newgrounds was a great place to "level up" my music production skills.

now I am at least like level 50-60 and I'm ready for my record deal :)

KgZ
KgZ
  • Member since: Apr. 30, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 11
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 25th, 2008 @ 07:38 PM Reply

At 7/25/08 05:00 PM, Bjra wrote:

Newgrounds was a great place to "level up" my music production skills.


now I am at least like level 50-60 and I'm ready for my record deal :)

what's that!? bjra is evolving!


www.macjams.com/artist/kgz (Download links)

Krank
Krank
  • Member since: Apr. 23, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 14
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 25th, 2008 @ 07:45 PM Reply

At 7/25/08 07:38 PM, KgZ wrote: what's that!? bjra is evolving!

I'm evolving into Fellatio-ra

Rucklo
Rucklo
  • Member since: Oct. 11, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 40
Audiophile
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 25th, 2008 @ 09:10 PM Reply

At 7/25/08 04:53 PM, loogiesquared wrote:
At 7/25/08 04:48 PM, Neodrummer wrote:
At 7/25/08 04:46 PM, Neodrummer wrote:
At 7/25/08 01:47 PM, loogiesquared wrote: I don't really like this topic, stop bumping it, ppl.
If you dont like this topic.. they did you pump it?

OOOooooOOoooOoOooOO burn :3
Woops.. i meant bump ;P lol.

Sorry for the double post :/
damn it, neo you ARE getting a BRAND NEW sig!!!

just because this thread is a dump doesnt mean you can break the rules innit. >:( *posts deleted.


Join the Newgrounds Battlefield 3 Platoon (for PC)! DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR GAME CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR, UH, NEWGROUNDS! ON BATTLEFIELD 3. eh...

Chronamut
Chronamut
  • Member since: Oct. 9, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 43
Artist
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 26th, 2008 @ 09:29 PM Reply

you should change your name to locklo

then you could join the lock crew!

lolomg im funny :P


Want to chat with fellow newgrounders? Then go here & come visit The High Society Club!
ALSO - My sig isnt there just for show - CLICK IT!

BBS Signature
PaulStetich
PaulStetich
  • Member since: Feb. 3, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 13
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 26th, 2008 @ 11:30 PM Reply

At 7/26/08 09:29 PM, Chronamut wrote: you should change your name to locklo

then you could join the lock crew!

lolomg im funny :P

Hahahizzle in the shizzle.

But not bad XD

Scribbler
Scribbler
  • Member since: Nov. 30, 2002
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 39
Musician
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 03:20 AM Reply

I like it when I feel informed. This page has been bookmarked. Thank you again!

LiquidEvolution
LiquidEvolution
  • Member since: Jan. 6, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 03:49 AM Reply

At 7/24/08 05:05 PM, sarias wrote: what if there was a way to make it so you were required to watch the flash video or listen to the song before you could vote, because most of the time zero bombers dont even listen to the song they just zero bomb it, what if you had to listen to the whole thing, i mean there may still be zero bombers but there would be less.

Won't work. Although, it may stop 90% of the zero bombing, it will also stop 50% of people voting on your song. See, most people will listen to all of your song if they really like it. Others however will give it a quick listen, decide how good it is and vote it and leave. Now, unless you make a song that 100% of the world's population will like, you're gonna' get less votes on that song and considering that's it hard enough getting enough votes for the top 5 and 30 now, hardly anyone would make it to 20 votes.

Ok, let's list the ideas that WON'T solve zero bombing.

Remove the voting system?
No more top 5 and top 30. More advertising spam in the AF.

The ability to see who has voted what on your song?
You want people non-stop zero voting eachother? 100's of threads, news posts, reviews flaming users because they zero'd songs. It would just be utter chaos.

Having to review the song to vote on it?
Just like I said up there, less votes, no more top 5 and top 30.

Have the mods' watch who zero votes alot?
You can't expect the mods of NG to monitor like 20,000 people and the every vote they make.

That's all the so called 'solutions' I can think of that have been said in this thread and it's just to prove that nothing is fool-proof and there is always going to be asses who get off over pressing a button on a webpage, not to mention, so people will stop suggesting the same shit over and over again. Honestly, there is one solution: DON'T LET ZERO BOMBING BOTHER YOU!!. Maybe if everyone didn't give these guys attention, zero bombing wouldn't be so much fun to them anymore but sadly, in this competitive world. There will always be zero bombers and there will always be people who needs lots of downloads and votes because to them. Music is all about attention, not creativity.


yea

darkmelee
darkmelee
  • Member since: Dec. 29, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 07
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 05:43 AM Reply

true. as much as it sucks, all you can do is move forward and hope that someone can at least appreciate what you've done, whether they vote for it or not. i still wish i could have more than 1 (or zero) reviews sometimes (and having like 16 votes total is sorta disappointing), but i also have an assload of music, a few of which should either be deleted or fixed, but i'm really bad about fixing things after so long.

(hellz, i just got bombed while typing this out, jeez)

KgZ
KgZ
  • Member since: Apr. 30, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 11
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 12:12 PM Reply

perfect solution: if everyone zerobombs everyone else, it will universally balance everything out mirite


www.macjams.com/artist/kgz (Download links)

LiquidEvolution
LiquidEvolution
  • Member since: Jan. 6, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 12:55 PM Reply

At 7/27/08 12:12 PM, KgZ wrote: perfect solution: if everyone zerobombs everyone else, it will universally balance everything out mirite

BUT TEHN TEH PPLZ GO AROWND AND 5 EVRYFING DEN WE HAVE 5 BOMBER PROBLAM!11

Honestly, the day when 5 bombers are a problem is the day I buy Playstation 3. ;D

yea

LiquidEvolution
LiquidEvolution
  • Member since: Jan. 6, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 07:18 PM Reply

Ok, I think I have in my head, the one aid that may help against zero bombing and the bitching about exposure and such. People are so selfish, they expect the mods and admins to solve all their problems but we could phase it out ourselves.

Have a look at this:

LOOK AT MEH!!

I'm going around finding songs that I think diserve more of a look than they get. Now, if everyone made their own list of songs that they thought diserved more than they get, if we all promoted eachother? Wouldn't that make a pretty big impact on the AP? I mean, sure there are some flaws like "There will be people who get left out" but you know the saying "A good deed never goes un-paid" so surely, if you're nice and promote someone, they might just do the same for you. I know this wouldn't exactly get rid' of the zero bombers but it would help with getting people more exposure which is what everyone is so crazy about.


yea

reaper-of-ratings
reaper-of-ratings
  • Member since: Mar. 10, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 15
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 08:25 PM Reply

how about this. Make an area on newgrounds where every majorly successful artist has their own link - like the series page has in the flash portal - then just get rid of all the scores and stats.

No more voting scores, no more review scores.

Reset all counters, and then don't display them. Voting power will be negligible since there will be nothing to vote on.

The only way anything will get on the charts will be to actually listen to it - and the counter would only count a person listening to a song once a day - regardless of how many times that day they listened to it.

There would be no zero voting, there would be no five voting. You wouldnt get retarded scores for your reviews - you'd just get reviews - whether they be bad or good - that's all they are in the end. There would be no statwhoring. Noone would have anything to complain about because if people don't listen to your music - then you suck, and you really don't have a right to complain about that.

jrhager84
jrhager84
  • Member since: Jul. 18, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 07
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 09:02 PM Reply

Just add a script or something, that way if someone votes X number of times all 0's... they're put on a "blacklist" which is monitored by mods. If they are found to in fact be zero bombing, they're banned and deleted.

Just my suggestion.


- email jrhager84@gmail if interested in voice acting/ music/ production/ mixing etc. -

BBS Signature
Chronamut
Chronamut
  • Member since: Oct. 9, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 43
Artist
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 09:59 PM Reply

At 7/27/08 09:02 PM, jrhager84 wrote: Just add a script or something, that way if someone votes X number of times all 0's... they're put on a "blacklist" which is monitored by mods. If they are found to in fact be zero bombing, they're banned and deleted.

Just my suggestion.

I dont see how that would help - there are a lot of songs out there that legitimately deserve zeros. Have you listened to half the stuff in the voice acting genre? Half of them arent even music - or vocal- theyre just static!


Want to chat with fellow newgrounders? Then go here & come visit The High Society Club!
ALSO - My sig isnt there just for show - CLICK IT!

BBS Signature
Krank
Krank
  • Member since: Apr. 23, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 14
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 11:40 PM Reply

SOLUTIONS:
Audio is different than flash. It needs a different system.

============

1) Take away 1-5 scale on all audio. make the review system the only way to give a song a score.

A reviews weight on the total score of the song is determined by whether people think its helpful or useless. A 10 from a person who gave a detailed constructive review will have significantly more weight than a review from a person who said "awesome song"

This will encourage constructive criticism.

Reviews that are useless will have absolutely no weight.
A review of zero with "YOU SUCK" will get so many useless clicks that it will have no weight on the score of the song.

zero bombing will be impossible. The only thing that could happen is a low score with a drawn out explanation why. This is good.

==========

2) give experience for reviewing songs. Allow like 5 reviews on audio to give you 10 experience points daily.

This will encourage people to review songs. There will be a HELL OF A LOT MORE REVIEWS! everyone likes this!

===========

3) If a review is counted as useless, it is deleted and the experience points for it are lost, so 2 experience points are lost for each review deleted. This will encourage nice long reviews, constructive, and good stuff artists will like.

===========

4) Give a new section for review saves and blams. This will give people saves for reviews and blams for reviews when they click useless and the review is inevitably deleted, and give saves if a review is clicked as helpful and it stays helpful.

=============

Issues:

1) Reviews like "awesome song man" won't exist that much anymore. it's the cost for getting rid of zero bombing.
2) people could write scathing reviews and purposefully come up with reasons to argue with the song to lower its score. This is inevitable, but better than zero bombing.

=========

Benefits:

Better, higher quality songs on the front page every week.
Better feedback to artists
zero bombing eliminated
people can get more experience every day

Krank
Krank
  • Member since: Apr. 23, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 14
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 11:42 PM Reply

At 7/27/08 11:40 PM, Bjra wrote: SOLUTIONS:

Also I should mention, songs that deserve zero's, like static etc. will get scathing reviews.

a review that gives a zdero and sys "this is static, its not a song" will most likely be counted as helpful.

Krank
Krank
  • Member since: Apr. 23, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 14
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 27th, 2008 @ 11:55 PM Reply

| LOL noone ever reads posts at the bottom of a page, so i'm reposting. Sorry for the spam!

SOLUTIONS:
Audio is different than flash. It needs a different system.

============

1) Take away 1-5 scale on all audio. make the review system the only way to give a song a score.

A reviews weight on the total score of the song is determined by whether people think its helpful or useless. A 10 from a person who gave a detailed constructive review will have significantly more weight than a review from a person who said "awesome song"

This will encourage constructive criticism.

Reviews that are useless will have absolutely no weight.
A review of zero with "YOU SUCK" will get so many useless clicks that it will have no weight on the score of the song.

zero bombing will be impossible. The only thing that could happen is a low score with a drawn out explanation why. This is good.

==========

2) give experience for reviewing songs. Allow like 5 reviews on audio to give you 10 experience points daily.

This will encourage people to review songs. There will be a HELL OF A LOT MORE REVIEWS! everyone likes this!

===========

3) If a review is counted as useless, it is deleted and the experience points for it are lost, so 2 experience points are lost for each review deleted. This will encourage nice long reviews, constructive, and good stuff artists will like.

===========

4) Give a new section for review saves and blams. This will give people saves for reviews and blams for reviews when they click useless and the review is inevitably deleted, and give saves if a review is clicked as helpful and it stays helpful.

=============

Issues:

1) Reviews like "awesome song man" won't exist that much anymore. it's the cost for getting rid of zero bombing.
2) people could write scathing reviews and purposefully come up with reasons to argue with the song to lower its score. This is inevitable, but better than zero bombing.

=========

Benefits:

Better, higher quality songs on the front page every week.
Better feedback to artists
zero bombing eliminated
people can get more experience every day

Click here to hear my songs on iLike
Click here to hear my songs on Newgrounds

jrhager84
jrhager84
  • Member since: Jul. 18, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 07
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 05:57 AM Reply

Damn, both of my songs got 0 bombed on the first vote, with no review....... :-(

Thanks for the constructive criticism guys!
:sarcasm


- email jrhager84@gmail if interested in voice acting/ music/ production/ mixing etc. -

BBS Signature
Devastus
Devastus
  • Member since: Oct. 15, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 13
Musician
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 08:42 AM Reply

At 7/27/08 11:55 PM, Bjra wrote: | LOL noone ever reads posts at the bottom of a page, so i'm reposting. Sorry for the spam!

SOLUTIONS:
Audio is different than flash. It needs a different system...

People should listen to this guy.


ReverbNation | Twitter | Youtube | Facebook
(Latest track) "MAC12 - Viking Barbers from Outer Space" - Classical

BBS Signature
Chronamut
Chronamut
  • Member since: Oct. 9, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 43
Artist
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 09:18 AM Reply

lol yet another ngs kiddie that I helped blossom eh bjra :P


Want to chat with fellow newgrounders? Then go here & come visit The High Society Club!
ALSO - My sig isnt there just for show - CLICK IT!

BBS Signature
chucktownbluv
chucktownbluv
  • Member since: Aug. 21, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Musician
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 09:21 AM Reply

At 7/25/08 01:47 PM, loogiesquared wrote: I don't really like this topic, stop bumping it, ppl.

I wish the audio forum existed to make ME happy...

lol

Gloudas
Gloudas
  • Member since: Aug. 18, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 13
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 01:04 PM Reply

Rucklo I'm sure you dont read this forum cause its obnoxious to read, but if you are, why don't they have a daily songs feature? You mentioned once that the NG staff has shot down every idea for the AP presented to them, and I'm just not sure the logistics behind denying that one. It seems like the only thing it would do is allow for more exposure to artists and would hopefully bring in more listeners as people would be checking in daily and not weekly. I'm not bitching, just legitimately curious as to why that idea wouldn't work.


A heavy bassline is my kind of silence.

Enjoy progressive house? Then listen to my song.

chucktownbluv
chucktownbluv
  • Member since: Aug. 21, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Musician
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 01:08 PM Reply

I think NG needs to take Bjra's idea and run with it. It's the most logical that I've heard thus far. Then again, who cares what I think?

Krank
Krank
  • Member since: Apr. 23, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 14
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 01:14 PM Reply

At 7/28/08 01:08 PM, chucktownbluv wrote: I think NG needs to take Bjra's idea and run with it. It's the most logical that I've heard thus far. Then again, who cares what I think?

my plan is pretty good. It ca be improved in ways I cant conceive. maybe we should do a collab thread where we discuss and collaborate on the solution?

The other half of the issue is NG isnt too worried about the audio portal. We need to get them to care more before stuff will get dun

Rucklo
Rucklo
  • Member since: Oct. 11, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 40
Audiophile
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 01:27 PM Reply

At 7/28/08 01:04 PM, Gloudas wrote: Rucklo I'm sure you dont read this forum cause its obnoxious to read, but if you are, why don't they have a daily songs feature? You mentioned once that the NG staff has shot down every idea for the AP presented to them, and I'm just not sure the logistics behind denying that one. It seems like the only thing it would do is allow for more exposure to artists and would hopefully bring in more listeners as people would be checking in daily and not weekly. I'm not bitching, just legitimately curious as to why that idea wouldn't work.

I don't think I ever said that the staff shot down every idea for the AP, that would have to come from them to be true. liljim shut down the "ng evolution thread" that was in the WI/HT forum, go read his locking replies and that will most likley explain alot.
What I might have said however, is that the staff already have soooo many good ideas, I'm sure some are already presented in the "ap evolution thread" by users too.
The problem is not the lack of ideas, it's the fact that the staff's resources are limited, and the fact that the AP is not as highly prioritized as the flash portal. When it comes down to it, it's not just the two portals that build the site, there are many other parts that too require maintenance etc.


Join the Newgrounds Battlefield 3 Platoon (for PC)! DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR GAME CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR, UH, NEWGROUNDS! ON BATTLEFIELD 3. eh...

Krank
Krank
  • Member since: Apr. 23, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 14
Blank Slate
Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. Jul. 28th, 2008 @ 01:41 PM Reply

At 7/28/08 01:27 PM, Rucklo wrote: The problem is not the lack of ideas, it's the fact that the staff's resources are limited, and the fact that the AP is not as highly prioritized as the flash portal. When it comes down to it, it's not just the two portals that build the site, there are many other parts that too require maintenance etc.

I think it bears asking, newgrounds has a TON of users. and millions of views daily. Why hasn't NG expanded, gotten more staff, added more big features, added new means of revenue so they could expand.

with expansion comes more resources to expand even more. and improving sections of the site should happen automatically as a website expands. Look at facebook.