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At 4/14/12 12:21 AM, Knower998 wrote: Please choose your first step wisely if you are making serious choice, Mr. Thomas C. Fulp.
I just noticed you haven't exactly a member of this site for long....... are you posting here because you have some kind of personal experience with this kind of thing? Dont mean to sound passive aggressive, was just wondering.
Crap...... that was supposed to be a reply to NorskeDrittsekk..... sorry about that.
At 4/13/12 04:01 PM, TomFulp wrote:At 4/13/12 04:00 PM, NitWitt wrote: Yes, good.THAT ISN'T AN ANSWER.
Take Money: 2
Keep Going Solo: 0
Yes, good, good.
Also, no vc. Trust me, it's a bad idea.
I really wouldn't take the money. this site is one of the last few bastions of freedom on the internet. I don't want this site to go down the same path as youtube. there will be other ways of getting more money that won't involve selling your soul to these corporate scumbags. corporations have no love for creativity, they only care about profits and pleasing the shareholders. this site will continue to thrive without the need of taking corporate money. if the corporations take over this site, they will gut this site of everything that made it great. it'll be nothing but commercialized garbage just like in every other good site that was poisoned by big corporations. I beg of you Tom Fulp, don't take the money, keep the site the way it is. and for those of you who think that Venture Capital is a good idea, it isn't. the corporations will rob this site of everything that made it good as soon as it can get its hands on it. I've been watching stuff on Newgrounds ever since I was in middle school and I would hate to see it turn into another soulless, corporate owned puppet site like so many other good websites that decided to take corparate money. I don't know what me or anyone else would do if Newgrounds stopped being Newgrounds. I just hope that you would take what I have to say into consideration Tom Fulp. I just hope you make the right decision.
At 4/13/12 03:56 PM, TomFulp wrote:
Anyway there are two paths for NG, let me know which we should try because both have their ups and downs.
1) Keep being NG no matter what the cost. Yeah you are a big disappointment but we believe in you.
2) Take VC money. Spend the next five years being AMAZING, sponsor every game developer and every artist and rule the entire internet. IT MIGHT WORK, NG might become so successful the investors will get rich and back off, and it will be such a success it can just keep being a success forever.
I've really grown to love Newgrounds, it helped turn me into the fucked up person I am today. I would love to see this site finally potentially rule the internet, it's been long overdue. But it would break my heart to see NG get fucked over somehow. I've always respected Tom for sticking with NG and never seeming to give up on it. You don't need VC money, this site is going to rule the internet with or without it, because you won't give up on it, and because of the dedicated community and all the dedicated users who pump out kickass cartoons and games.
I think taking money might back you into corners you can't get out of, basically, losing controlling interest of the company. What if someone buys you out?
Nah I think sticking to your guns is the right way to go.
I love the site because, even with the shiny redesign it feels like that one mom and pop store that manages to hang on in a town where big chains keep moving in. If feels like someone made it on their own terms and it's not perfect and some things needs to be fixed and there are side projects that are eternally "just around the corner" and even those things are part of why I stick around.
At the same time I don't know what it's like to run a site and watch "the next big thing" pop up using ideas you pioneered. I don't know what it's like to see artists who cut their teeth here move on because there's more money else where. I don't know what it's like to have ideas that I just don't have the resources to implement.
I'm a pretty pragmatic person and I know in the same situation I probably would have sold out before the big dot.com crash, but if Newgrounds had gone corporate back then it probably wouldn't be around now. It's selfish for me to say "no don't take the money," and maybe it means nothing coming from someone who's never submitted flash or art or even some bad music, but I like knowing Newgrounds is, in essence, the same place back in middle school where I used to come to play games about killing N'Sync and watching Pico's School and Telebubby Funland, Shit, I remember playing along with the drinking game, except I used grape juice.
Now this part is going to sound corny as shit, but if something happened to this site and it got swallowed by a corporate entity, I'd feel like some naive and essential part of my soul would go with it.
Happy with what you have to be happy with
you have to be happy with what you have
to be happy with you have to be happy with what you have
At 4/13/12 04:07 PM, TomFulp wrote: I just gotta be clear, once NG takes money it is on a near-guaranteed path to being sold to a larger company at which point it could be scuttled or transformed into something no one wants. Without money NG could exist forever, it's just that no one may care that it exists.
I didnt read this, I take back what i said DON'T DO IT... YOU KNOW IT IS TEH WRONG WAY TO GO!
Do you think your attractive? Go to my youtube channel to find out (or not).
There are many benefits to either direction and I'm going to explain how I feel as long as I possibly can before my thoughts derail.
I've been browsing your site since at least 2006, coming and going for the music, movies and games that this site is known for and loving every single second I've spent here. But the one thing I've always loved most is that the owner of the site and the rest of the staff have always been an integral part of the community. You don't just sit in a leather chair in a hundred story office building. You're a regular Joe, with a family and financial troubles just like all of us. You've always made the community your greatest concern, ensuring that the visitors get the attention you feel we deserve and delivering the wish lists we create regardless of how much time and effort it requires from you.
Now, that being said here is my personal take on both questions.
Continuing on your own:
-This site has stood its ground and grown immensely for well over a decade among giants, all the while maintaining a very personal relationship with members as I said before.
-Newgrounds continues to succeed and exceed expectations of competitors with Overlord Fulp at the helm. Why allow the possibility for that leadership to change hands, or worse, become influenced (read: enslaved) by the almighty dollar?
-Consistent site modifications, upgrades, and updates regarding events that are important to the community (such as this) are what keep members coming back.
There are many reason why you should continue on your own, but ultimately that decision will fall into your capable hands. However, before you classify this as a "Stay solo" comment. Keep in mind...
Accepting venture capital:
-Tom and his staff have made this site their career, and consider many members personal friends. There is no evidence suggesting that Tom and his staff would abandon the community for the sake of pleasing their investors (read: To get moar money.) Because that would mean losing the respect of many people that I'm sure they hold dear to their hearts. I personally do not believe they are willing to sacrifice that respect, hence why this is a post asking for community input, rather than an announcement of an investor.
-Because Tom has 10+ years of managing this site. This is an important note, because investors will understand that this is not a desperate individual looking to save a website, this is someone who wants to turn an extremely successful business into a full-fledged company. This is someone who is more than capable of continuing on without their help. For those that argued that investors would hold more influence than Tom, I think you have to remember that Tom has managed this site incredibly well and will continue to do so even with dump truck loads of cash. (He'll still love each and every one of us too.)
-Money would allow more servers, which leads to larger audio files, longer flash animations and better? games. More site updates, more employees to implement said updates faster. (Or better pay for his current staff.) etc. etc.
There are many, many pluses to venture capitalism that will allow this site to grow in a positive manner. However, and I'm sure Tom understands this, it is rather risky. Tom, you would have to ensure that you never let that money go to your head.
In conclusion, I'm going to have to say that Tom should continue with venture capitalism. But under three conditions that I'm absolutely positive everyone in the community would agree with; Never forget why you're here, where you came from and most importantly, who you are as a person.
You're here because you want to give individuals around the world a community where they can share their creativity and establish recognition. I know this because I saw that interview at PAX and I could see the excitement you had about people from the place you created becoming successful elsewhere.
You're just another nerd like all of us. You built this site as a place to showcase your Flash animations, eventually introducing other artists and programmers which led to more, which led to more. Eventually landing you where you are today, at the helm of easily the most influential and respected website dedicated to sharing animation and games from members worldwide.
Finally; You are a man that has given to the community countless times for many, many reasons.. You've done it publicly, and I'm sure you've made private donations as well. You have a heart of gold that is dead-set on solidifying the foundation that Newgrounds was built on: Community interaction and collaboration in order to give a name to unnamed underground artists. Musicians, Flash animators and game programmers alike.
I think that's all I wanted to say.. Not sure if any of it makes sense.
Tom don't be a putz, VG isn't worth it. Nothing good ever came of making a quick buck fast.
Now I'm not saying you can't be innovative enough to follow through with the deal, but shit man think about the risk down the road.
Ask yourself what would college-tom have said 12 years ago?
I've been using Newgrounds for nearly 6 years and I've seen it evolve from something fun into something fun, awesome, and great and newgrounds did it by itself and has became an icon a flagship for artists of all trades. I think that newgrounds should not take outside money; money breeds corruption, and I would HATE to see newgrounds becomes something that its not JUST for the sake of money. Investors have no interest in the Newgrounds community they care about money. Period.
Newgrounds is great and one of my favorite sites. Keep it great and keep outside money out of it. Keep Newgrounds, Newgrounds!
I'd say take option C. Newgrounds artists get together and develop games to sell. Surely after Alien Hominid and Castle Crashers a company would take something made by the newgrounds community and run with it.
make a demo version and put it on newgrounds, once it gets in a nice bucket of positive reviews, show it off to a few companies and see what happens.
I'm not crazy, everyone else is.
At 4/14/12 09:58 AM, Korriken wrote: I'd say take option C. Newgrounds artists get together and develop games to sell. Surely after Alien Hominid and Castle Crashers a company would take something made by the newgrounds community and run with it.
make a demo version and put it on newgrounds, once it gets in a nice bucket of positive reviews, show it off to a few companies and see what happens.
I'd say, despite what I said earlier, this is probably the best idea mentioned. Work with Behemoth and develop newer and better games for xbox and ps3 users to enjoy. Dad'n'Me, Red Baron, Pico's School 2, all of those are great games that could be brought to television.
definately a cool idea.
However you would have to organize alot of community projects to get the money back from.
Maybe some community created games, Feature Films. Maybe break into the tv industry through the community :)
Get the money Tom!
"So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."
-F. Scott Fitzgerald
At 4/13/12 04:13 PM, BobyB64 wrote: Money's great but I would hate to see NG turn into Youtube. So I'm gonna have to say solo
Agreed! Venture capital has alot of crap to it. Tom sugar coated it. There a couple of negative he didn't mention.
I'm just a dreamer.
never forgetti, like mom's spaghetti Credit to @pussyshark
At 4/13/12 04:50 PM, MrPercie wrote: But I dont see the downsides of taking the money but its really your decision.
But I go with the money option because it sounds good.
worded that a bit wrong
if the flash artists and NG staff and creators would benefit a lot from this deal and know not much would be ruined if it doesnt work out, then I say go for it.
"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven" - John Milton
The thing I'm worried about is another dotcom bubble bursting. Wasn't the problem last time around that there was tons of investment but no one had actually worked out how to make it all back reliably? To be honest, I think allowing other companies isn't just a risk in the way of being taken over and being bastardized, but if the digital economy goes belly-up again, investments from large but un-sound companies would drag Newgrounds down with it, and I don't want to see that happen.
So my vote is to keep Newgrounds independant for as long as possible.
Nonononono don't get VC! The thing that's so incredible about NG is that it's a haven for independant creators, and in my opinion the king of the independants here is you, Tom. You still own 100% of the company and that's amazing! Everyone who knows anything about running a business is fucking psyched that you have managed that and it would suck balls if you suddenly had to explain yourself to a board of investors.
We all want NG to grow, sure, and it's going through some painful times right now while it figures out what it's going to do...but the slow burn is better than the flash in the pan EVERY TIME.
I know that YOU don't like the idea of getting VC; don't do it. Don't do it! It's YOUR company at the end of the day, and we wouldn't want it any other way.
I would go for solo
This site is so personal and so real, I would really hate if this becomes like Youtube.
Another option would be to take the VC but go with really slow steps, taking just small amounts of money, so that the site's ownership could be 75% Tom/25% other company. Its always good to have the strongest leadership in your own website.
Do you want a hot coffee?
At 4/13/12 10:55 PM, toxisfuckingdumb wrote: this is what happens when you take business advice from teenagers
nearly everyone who said WHOOO MONEY does not understand capitalism apparently
Indeed. I'd recommend that anyone interested in a little bit more in depth view of capitalism read The Corporation by Joel Bakan.
"If loving Python is crazy then I don't want to be sane." -Diki