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At 4/13/12 06:22 PM, SketchistGames wrote: KEEP NEWGROUNDS THE SAME! I don't want to lose our NG rights! If I have to pay for anything I am leaving to Kongregate or Armor Games or NotDoppler SOMEWHERE ELSE IF I have to pay for ANYTHING!
Good luck in life, kiddo.
A rather disgusting-looking git that should have been disposed of ages ago.
To anyone who speaks never gain success if you never take failure:
Venture capital is not a normal business game. It is a 1/10 devil game. Once you gain and you gain tremendously amount of resources. If you lose then you would lose everything.
VC has critical failure that none of you would want to take; if any of you ever has done business before.
I strongly encourage Mr. Fulp to do some personal research without depending on this inaccurate opinions on here and consult this matter with your in-business friends, employees and staff. VC is a serious matter.
At 4/13/12 06:21 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:At 4/13/12 06:19 PM, SketchistGames wrote: i don't have the money I would move on to Kongregate, ArmerGames, anything else really if I had to pay for newgrounds.Even if the choice to pay was optional, and that you still had the same access to the content as before?
Yes THEN I would stay but if I HAVE to pay for crap I will leave to Kongregate, *ArmorGames, NotDoppler, somewhere else...
Weekly Fourth Place for Blast the Bunny 2
VC is like turning your website into a money-fueled bonfire to attract more money to burn. Eventually there is only ash. Don't burn your creation.
Stay independent, persevere. Maybe "get a manager in there" and continue to slowly make the website better.
Tom, you have the overall decision here, but truth be told, I think Newgrounds is better without taking the money. By taking money, there WILL be strings attached and the new goal of Newgrounds will be to make its INVESTORS profitable.
I don't know the financial situation of the website except I know you've mentioned that the budget is pathetic compared to bigger companies. Yet, Newgrounds is one of the only big websites I know that actually care about its users rather than having to make its investors rich.
Need advice? Visit the RELATIONSHIP CREW!
Apparently there is something happening with NG, otherwise Tom wouldn't even consider this. I can understand that NG is not at the peak of its success anymore, I feel like that was around 6-10 years ago (I could be wrong though), everyone visited that site back then.
It's just that with sites like Youtube things have gotten much easier. Honestly I don't even know if Flash has such a great future. Sure you can make animations, but you can also make those differently and publish them on YT. And if you can make games, why not sell them in the App Store or something...
I personally don't really know how you could make NG grow more and it saddens me because NG always had more soul than let's say YT that is run by faceless people that know nothing about their community.
Perhaps you could offer additional features, like videos, photos, blogs, even though it is questionable if people would really want to visit NG for those reasons.
Wait would it be possible for newgrounders to donate money to help further improve the site? I have seen some smaller websites set up a progress bar to raise money over a certain amount of time.
As long as the extra money doesn't adversely affect the content offered on Newgrounds (for example, limit authors' ability to be creative or obscene or creepy, etc) I think Newgrounds would benefit greatly from such a stimulus package as the one you describe.
I haven't really given a decent opinion yet. I wouldn't mind the Steam-powered program. Having actual payment in games and movies is a payment model that's fresh, as opposed to just more ads. VC is risky, doing nothing is suicide. You might also want to try getting some more contacts andgetting the name out some more. Sites like Destructoid are doing very well, and they might share the audience you're looking for.
Just give us the ability to buy hats to wear in Pico's School or new playable characters in Newgrounds Rumble and Newgrounds could florish once again.
A rather disgusting-looking git that should have been disposed of ages ago.
At 4/13/12 04:21 PM, MindChamber wrote: No VC.. concentrate on microtransations, to funnel back into turning NG into a platform. Keep NG lean and small, and work hard to make NG the ultimate publisher for developers and artists alike. Steam-squared.
I think you're on the right track here, but NG obv. needs to expand beyond flash...
The mobile platform have really lifted off, and I'm not sure if it's too late to catch that train or not... However, microtransactions seem to be a really good money-maker, but again you'll need to have somethings more than just flash for this to hit.
Newgrounds is business, but it's one of the few busniesses of this size that still have a "soul" and haven't been transformed in to something else...
If it's worth it or not is up to you, Tom, but if NG's history as a nice place with a "fuck you" attitude based on common sense is to b e considered at all, I think that Newgrounds as it is today in fact will sieze to be "underground" quite fast. Better artists will stay for the money like you said, but for the true underground community, I don't know... It's a tough call, personally I feel like I don't know enough to be able to say yay or nay.
I say no money for one good reason...newgrounds is a site for all the good things and some spam on the internet to pour in. Taking the money would make this the next youtube and we do not want that. So do not take the money tom no matter what anyone says.
At 4/13/12 04:10 PM, Atgod88 wrote: Usually when money is involved, the quality control of any site goes down the tubes in some form, usually changing the entire website to conform to what is most profitable.
Again, just my opinion.
I second this, very much so.
If NG has financial problems, I'm pretty sure there's other ways to solve it.
Please don't sell out NG's soul, Mr. Fulp.
It's almost a general opinion that many sites were much MUCH better before these sorts of
R.I.P. FoXeS: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /164130
newgrounds is special to me because its always been just out of the reach of the mainstream, and even though so many huge internet fads originated here it never really gets the credit.
i dont believe theres a clear cut answer because on one hand i think this site deserves to be acknowledged and appreciated beyond how it is now. in my experience too many people shrug off NG for trivial reasons. like the hentai ads that were around like 8 years ago. or the portal voting system being unbalanced. because they dont like some forum mod. on the other hand NG is what it is because of the way people already regard it. its one of the few big websites where almost anything goes. that unfiltered philosophy is i think what draws so many unique, excellent artists. and its not unfiltered like 4chan which exists on the principal that your identity is unimportant. newgrounds is all about rewarding good artists which is what the frontpage and all the awards are for.
i want ng to grow and money would help that, but is it worth sacrificing the values that make this site special? it really is a tough question.
At 4/13/12 06:37 PM, ZERO008 wrote: Wait would it be possible for newgrounders to donate money to help further improve the site? I have seen some smaller websites set up a progress bar to raise money over a certain amount of time.
Donate money seems like a good idea but some people aren't willing to throw they're money away for something not guaranteed if the site can be saved and be forced to do something because of lack of motivation.. but hey I'm no money expert
..what about the ng store? Like I dunno.. pico day sale? Or maybe too risky?
whatever just my thoughts
I wouldn't like to see Newgrounds become a huge sell out like YouTube.
If you want to keep the underground style, then please keep this. If you want mone, then go ahead.
your call. but I wouldn't mess with VC. there is only so much of an increase in production you could get.
only way you could really secure dominance in web content is through eliminating competition and I can't see that happening
Mindchamber is right.
Micro purchases and things of the sort or "selling out".
You gotta look out for you and yours.
At 4/13/12 06:54 PM, The-iMortal wrote: Why the hell not?!?!
You hardly see the full story of "Money".
At 4/13/12 04:07 PM, TomFulp wrote: I just gotta be clear, once NG takes money it is on a near-guaranteed path to being sold to a larger company at which point it could be scuttled or transformed into something no one wants. Without money NG could exist forever, it's just that no one may care that it exists.
My point exactly.
But what do you mean nobody may care?
In that case, there might be something wrong with the ad campaigns, I dare say.
I think it all depends on WHO you want take notice of NG, honestly.
R.I.P. FoXeS: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /164130
A lot of people are voting to take the money, which is fine, but I think most of them are uneducated in the construct of what it means, and just think that you're just earning extra money with no drawbacks.
Personally, I think that NG should stay flying solo. While the extra revenue would be nice, venture capital is just an extremely risky undertaking, and I'm just too fearful that it would backfire.
Not only that, but like you said in a previous news post, Newgrounds is slowly using what it used to be. The user base is declining, and just everything is slowly fading, and there's only a fraction of what Newgrounds left to be in the Newgrounds that there is today. You take on the venture capital concept, and I'm betting that whatever was left of the former Newgrounds glory will be squashed, and you're just gonna lose everything that it once was.
I grew up with this site, and losing it would be like losing a part of my past.
After picking through each page of this topic to see what the buzz said, I'm going to speak my piece.
I might not be overly well known on NG, but I try to stay active in the community, and I may not have been here the longest, but I've loved every minute of my time on NG. This site gave me the inspiration and the kick in the ass I needed to start learning everything I now know about programming, because it was always a personal dream of mine to work on developing games.
As someone who would like to consider himself "in the know" of today's indie generation, I have to say that Newgrounds is a place like no other. Originators reign supreme, and that's what Newgrounds is, an originator. There's no other place on the internet with such an immense summation of pure creativity and talent, such a plethora of personalities, and such a fiery attitude to push the limits of indie creations. This site has made such a name for itself that even those who may have only heard of it a few times remember pieces of NG history. Newgrounds doesn't need any investments to become "amazing" because this is a relative term, "amazing" compared to what? We're the best, always have been, and always will be.
Taking the money of big investors just to make a name for a place that is already incredible is so counterintuitive due to the whims of said investors. Newgrounds may not be immortal now, but its what we have and love, and a move to venture capitalism will most definitely kill that which we all love about Newgrounds, and in doing so, kill Newgrounds itself.
I rest my case.
I'm going to have to say don't take the money. Newgrounds is just fine the way it is, and there is ALWAYS a catch to accepting money from financial capitals like VC. Sure, there's plenty to gain, but there's also plenty to lose. I may not know that much on successfully running a business, but I do something as valuable as Newgrounds can't afford the negative effects of huge risks such as this. Ultimately, the choice is yours, Tom.
Thanks, Chdonga, for the awesome sig.
At 4/13/12 04:07 PM, TomFulp wrote:At 4/13/12 04:05 PM, Bahamut wrote: Shut up and take the money! If there's a lot of great possibilities from this, don't hold back.Money: 7
I just gotta be clear, once NG takes money it is on a near-guaranteed path to being sold to a larger company at which point it could be scuttled or transformed into something no one wants. Without money NG could exist forever, it's just that no one may care that it exists.
Don't sellout if it means losing more then 70 % of Newgrounds to a different company. If you dont see yourself wanting to keep newgrounds, be very careful who it gets passed off to. A new owner, could seriously tear down this place in the second it took to take the site offline.
They could pick and choose what gets featured, maybe no voting system anymore. It could easily become a money only type operation.
Newgrounds, is everything by everyone, and has provived artist and animaters, programers , etc. a place to be seen, reviewed, and so much more.
Money changes everything. And will to this site, I highly doubt the freedom of content that is allowed to be expressed now as it always has been would continue as a now money operation.
This site, as it is, WOULD NOT! Fit into the open public. And dont say it'S NOT TRUE.
A new company.. could censor it, long time users could lose there content... and worst a double failure. Say you take money, the worst of the worst happens, no more newgrounds, no more money based site, and someone rights the loss of of taxes.
With new laws trying to be inforced on "internet" makes me wonder if this isit the reason you kinda making this type of move? A bigger money backing with the laws come down? A way out? Or a extra hand in the online fight thats gonna go down.
I dunno, I dont think this is something to rush into thats for sure.... and I'm sure there's more details that have not been released just at the hints of your posts.
I'm gonna say .. NO. untill more is known about this money venture.