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MaartenC
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:46 PM Reply

I don't mind Newgrounds getting über rich. Sure, try it out.

Shanejaya
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:50 PM Reply

It would be great to see NG take over the internet, but if It does, NG will change A LOT, And there would only be "Yeah, those were the good times" Moments whenever you think about old NG.

50/50

Its a tough decision.

Possible endings

NG Bankrupt (?)

NG Taking over the internet

NG etc.

I just hope that NG ends in a bad way.

NG is my favorite website. :|

TomFulp
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:51 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 05:44 PM, Hyrus wrote: The tone of your post is enthusiastic, but for really wonky reasons.

I was being sarcastic because I'm sick of competing with sites that flush unlimited money down the toilet with a big smile while I stress over expenses and ongoing development. I've turned down advances from VC firms for the past decade but because people suggest it and because there IS the chance it could be a good thing, I decided to finally write a post about it.


This is the game JohnnyUtah and I have been working on.

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Michaely385
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:51 PM Reply

Wow, i have never such many people on NG is now talking about money.

I hope it is like great for me.

Shanejaya
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:52 PM Reply

I'd probably say... Don't Invest.

BananasFoster
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:55 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 05:21 PM, Spretznaz wrote:
At 4/13/12 04:21 PM, MindChamber wrote: No VC.. concentrate on microtransations, to funnel back into turning NG into a platform. Keep NG lean and small, and work hard to make NG the ultimate publisher for developers and artists alike. Steam-squared.
This is one of the best ideas I've heard. You don't have to take VC, and you won't do nothing either. I hate to say it, but this could actually work. You really should make it option number 3

I'm inclined to agree with MindChamber also. VC seems very risky, and the charm of Newgrounds being the website that arose from content like 'Club a Seal' and all the other strange stuff could very well become lost. I think the allure of Newgrounds to begin with would likely have to change, to some degree, if you went the venture capital route, and the allure of Newgrounds is what has kept it afloat to begin with.

I like MindChamber's idea because I'm sure there must be other ways to keep building Newgrounds up while still retaining all of your control over it. It truly is Everything by Everyone right now, and that has always been the essence of this website. I mean, look how far Newgrounds has come over the past ten years. Has the plateau been hit? Are there any other options besides venture capital?

I would only consider the replies that have explanations; I don't think a lot of people who are really gung-ho for the VC option truly understand it (I'm not saying everyone who chose this doesn't have a clue -- but I'm sure a lot don't). As someone else mentioned, I and others are pretty appreciative that you're gathering our opinions on this; I think this is part of the reason we all love this website so much -- because we feel like we are an essential part of it.


Boop boop beep boop.

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Zendra
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:55 PM Reply

Take and be sure to set your own course with the conditions they put you on. :)

MindChamber
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:55 PM Reply

whats funny is getting VC would probably put a much needed fire under your ass to get the site running right.
but really at what cost? do you really need VC to see what NG needs?

You dont want to burn the users with a real store and games with microtransations, or even a year subscription. But what do you think VLC will end up making you do in order to get their investment?
That exact same thing.

I know Id gladly pay a year subscription if it mean more programmers at NG getting it to work properly and keep it at the edge of technology, I'm sure others would as well.

Let people pay for their freedom, which they will inevitably lose if you go the VC route.

Oh and Get a manager in there,

you're a great guy Tom, but yah.. let's face it already.

Manly-Chicken
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:55 PM Reply

Quick questions:

Who's giving you the money?
How will you earn it back?
Will NG get another redesign to compensate?
Are you selling out?
Will you keep creative control?
Is this just a fancy way of saying big company is buying NG?

I don't like change...

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Sheizenhammer
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:57 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 05:41 PM, Magical-Zorse wrote: Screw those, turn NG into a pornography website.

Tried it; didn't work.

Anyway: I really do think taking VC would be like balancing NG's future on a knife edge, just for the sake of money that I'm not all that sure you actually need.

I don't know what you mean by "wanting to make something big": With roughly half a million unique hits a day, most people would consider this a pretty damn big website already. Exactly how "big" is big in your eyes? Yes, it's tiny compared to the giants of the internet, but comparing yourself to them is just silly. Newgrounds is a site for people who can actually make interesting things using a computer, as opposed to literally anyone with enough I.T skills to open a browser and make an account on a website.

As such, taking VC would inevitably push it towards being just another generic flash-dump site, since you need no talent at all to upload whatever random shit you find on the internet ala youtube-style buttpiracy. And that would remove the very cornerstone of user-generated content that makes this site unique and special.

Yes, it's easy for us all to sit here and say not to take money, since we're not the ones having to pay your staff's salaries or feed your kids, but from my honest point of view, as long as you can make ends meet, how much need for this type of change is there?

If, and only if, there is a way of doing it on a small scale with no alterations to who owns the site or decides upon its content / developmental direction, then it may be worth the money. However, if it's a case of all-or-nothing, I say nothing. Because, as you've proven for the last 12 years at least, nothing really can be a start point for something far bigger than anyone imagined at the time. As much of a help as I'm sure it is, don't fixate on the idea of NEEDING a large amount of extra money to make this place better. If you were told, as a teenager, that your fanzine website would one day be one of the largest flash sites on the web, would you have believed it?

red15squirrel
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:57 PM Reply

What benefit (besides personal wealth) would you you and Newgrounds gain from Newgrounds becoming a billion dollar company? You're already living the dream as far as I'm concerned; you have complete creative freedom at a video game company and a website whose community is absolutely amazing. I don't like the idea of adding the goal of "making money" (a shallow goal in my opinion beyond the level of personal comfort) to the website. It's never felt like a website that's cared too much about revenue.

I say reject the venture capital. Small webcomics artists make money off their work through merchandise. What's to stop Newgrounds from expanding more in that direction on its own?

Also, I'd like to point something out. How many websites not only survived but thrived after the dot-com bubble burst? Ebay, Amazon, Google are the only ones that come to mind besides Newgrounds. You've obviously been doing something right, don't let go of whatever that is in pursuit of making the site bigger.

OptimisticOctopus
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:58 PM Reply

I'm voting no, for reasons shared by many, but since they've already illustrated that point very well, I've nothing to add to it except my opinion.

By the way, I love how you turn to the NG community when you're going to make big decisions like this. Makes us feel so democratic. :D

TharosTheDragon
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:00 PM Reply

Can you take the money while still guaranteeing that you retain enough rights to change your mind 10 years down the line after NG has become something you never wanted it to be and bring it back to the way it was before?


I got Flash CS4 in case you need something converted to CS3.

Manly-Chicken
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:01 PM Reply

IDEAIDEAIDEAIDEAIDEAIDEA!

http://www.kickstarter.com/
http://www.kickstarter.com/
http://www.kickstarter.com/
http://www.kickstarter.com/
http://www.kickstarter.com/

Lots of stupid idiots use this crap to fund bad ideas!
It's perfect!

Then give people who donate dumb rewards, like making a big collab where the guys who make the largest donations pitch an idea and the big ng artists animate it.

DO IT TOM!!!1!111111!!!11111!!111!11!1


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Jojo55
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:02 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:47 PM, TomFulp wrote: Investors would want us to delete the hentai anyway...

I want what is best for Newgrounds. THAT CANNOT HAPPEN. And I'm not trying to be funny, if this whole money thing means the hentai would go, then what's next? Whatever the investors wish? Maybe I don't put it into words well, but this is our site...our beloved Newgrouds...If these people want to change it like that, then they don't care about what Newgrouds is...they aren't one of us. I trust you, Tom. But if this whole money thing gives these people a right to change our NG, well, I think they will destroy it. Maybe they'll have a billion dollars, but at what cost?

Then again, maybe I misunderstood. Maybe they can't do that and this will be a good thing. But if they CAN, I have no faith that they WON'T.

Do the right thing, Tom.

Don't fuck up.

"Weight 4.5 inches?" — yetanotherjohn. "Oh whoops I thought that was the field for penis length... And uh Luis filled that one out." — TomFulp.

EyeLovePoozy
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:03 PM Reply

Like Gambit said and probably others, I wouldn't take the money unless you were irremovably at the helm.

But at the end I vote no.

You started this bitch from scratch, half the Internet copies you. I say stay the course. Go the distance and become a behemoth (no pun intended) or go down in flames.

Loki
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:04 PM Reply

On this note, LONG LIVE NEWGROUNDS.

Zachary
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:04 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 05:55 PM, MindChamber wrote: whats funny is getting VC would probably put a much needed fire under your ass to get the site running right.
but really at what cost? do you really need VC to see what NG needs?

You dont want to burn the users with a real store and games with microtransations, or even a year subscription. But what do you think VLC will end up making you do in order to get their investment?
That exact same thing.

I could see that becoming something. Keep the user accounts the way they are, but add a year subscription for bonus things. It could have been done for the project system, but I feel that it being already released it is too late. Could have had it so that you can only have a certain amount of unfinished projects going on at a time if you don't have a subscription and unlimited if you have one.

On the other hand, i'm not too keen with restricting things from the creators.


.

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LDAF
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:05 PM Reply

Hmm, I don't like the sound of the VC. It just doesn't sound like a very good idea, but then again, I don't know a whole lot about economics (you also seemed to conveniently leave out any true arguments against VC in your OP! ) . I'd see keep going where you're going now.


Are you MAN enough to click this?!

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MoodyRemix
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:06 PM Reply

Its time for some inspirational words,

dont sell this site,if it wasn't for this,i wouldn't of even brought flash
look,big corporations,MoneyHogs,will try to take this away

But What did you do when SOPA tried to kick your ass away....
....you fought back and now there re-writing it

What About when BBC tried to put away your genius...
...You fought and they backed away

you got people like Nick and Google buying good sites...
...why....
...to get you to watch there crappy shows and use there crappy(No offence,Google)sites.

If you do this,9 times out of 10,we will have to pay for accounts
pay for API
pay for EVERYTHING

No,Dont do it tom,Dont Sell-OUT


Gaze into my chocolate eyes...

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redminus
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:10 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 05:51 PM, TomFulp wrote:
At 4/13/12 05:44 PM, Hyrus wrote: The tone of your post is enthusiastic, but for really wonky reasons.
I was being sarcastic because I'm sick of competing with sites that flush unlimited money down the toilet with a big smile while I stress over expenses and ongoing development. I've turned down advances from VC firms for the past decade but because people suggest it and because there IS the chance it could be a good thing, I decided to finally write a post about it.

Maaaaaaannnnnnnn it's such a tough call, especially since obviously none of us know what's up behind the scenes with Newgrounds like you do. Like do you feel that NG is suffering more than it should, or is there a goa-hump that you just can't seem to roll it over, I dunno. I had a big long thing typed up but pffffff realistically it wouldn't have mattered so I'll just say this:
As someone who's been coming to NG on and off since Pico's School was current, I don't think I've ever been like "jeez it's just too bad this site isn't good enough". Before I began submitting, I had always come for the content and not the site features themselves. And yeah the year or two leading up to the redesign, there were some site mechanics that seemed clunky and out of date (though now with the redesign I think that's been really well-addressed), but it was never something where I was like FUCK THIS SHIT I'M OFF TO YOUTUBE WOOOOOO because to me it was still all about the content.
I just love the fact that anyone can submit, and some of my favorite things I've seen here are like little beginner animations that make a cheap joke or something. Yeah I guess you could see that on YouTube too but NG is like the only place on the internet where on any given day you might roll up and see someone's overly artsy attempt at an emotional/dramatic statement in a Flash, side-by-side on the front page with a flash where a cat shits into a guy's mouth while he jacks off. I hope we never lose that here, shit just be crazy

Captain
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:14 PM Reply

Don't be a sell out, pass on the VC.

One of the reasons I love this site so much is that it's run by just a handful of guys. I know that's less beneficial when it comes to getting everything running perfectly 24/7 and keeping the site up to date, but that smallness allows users to sort of get to know you guys through this site. I like that if any changes are made I know that it's something you guys really want for the site. You guys work hard to make changes and fix things on the site for the sake of making it a more enjoyable and cool place to visit and submit content . The idea of there being some big money investor that doesn't have any involvement in the community pressuring for changes based on making more money rather than making the site a better place.

i guess the argument could be made that the changes based on making more money could lead to the site being better, but like MC said, I don't think you really need the pressure of making money back to make the site better.

TLDR: You guys are champs, money's for chumps.


Look at my art!

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kiradeath505
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:14 PM Reply

I say to Keep being NG no matter what the cost.

SketchistGames
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:15 PM Reply

1) Keep being NG no matter what the cost. Yeah you are a big disappointment but we believe in you.


2) Take VC money. Spend the next five years being AMAZING, sponsor every game developer and every artist and rule the entire internet. IT MIGHT WORK, NG might become so successful the investors will get rich and back off, and it will be such a success it can just keep being a success forever.

Would I still get my money through the advertisements on my flash games? What would the differences be between current newgrounds and Newgrounds+VC? Send me the answer through a PM and I will reply back to this post with an actual answer. Thank you :D


Current Trophies:
Weekly Fourth Place for Blast the Bunny 2
~SketchistGames :P

Buoy
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:15 PM Reply

It's a bit sad to say but I'll be honest: to me, Newgrounds currently feels like a dog that's getting old. At least forum activity has gone down quantifiably, we didn't beat the amount of users online from the previous redesign, everyone uploads their videos to Youtube now (which didn't usually happen before due to slower speeds and youtube's shitty quality back then). The entire foundation of the site (Flash) really took a hit when the iPad happened and seems to be getting slowly phased out. But I love this place and it's the only place on the internet that feels like home (Facebook is a distant, distant second).

If it is at all possible to set some reasonable limits to what investors get to decide, I'm thinking... money.

Lunaful
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:15 PM Reply

Oh Tom, don't put me in this position.

MONEY


Lunaful Is Awkwardly Honest. MSPA Crew

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MoodyRemix
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:15 PM Reply

And plus,they will take the way people vote,and rig the system...
...They will BLAM Anything they dont like

NG Will be like this

MONEY


Gaze into my chocolate eyes...

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clubparty44
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:16 PM Reply

keep going solo!

Tydus
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:16 PM Reply

Can I get unlimited NG GOLD PLAYBUX when they become the necessary currency to view content?

Manly-Chicken
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:18 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 06:01 PM, Manly-Chicken wrote: IDEAIDEAIDEAIDEAIDEAIDEA!

http://www.kickstarter.com/

Or... Idea b...

MONEY


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