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qraham
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 12:24:08 Reply

Nonononono don't get VC! The thing that's so incredible about NG is that it's a haven for independant creators, and in my opinion the king of the independants here is you, Tom. You still own 100% of the company and that's amazing! Everyone who knows anything about running a business is fucking psyched that you have managed that and it would suck balls if you suddenly had to explain yourself to a board of investors.

We all want NG to grow, sure, and it's going through some painful times right now while it figures out what it's going to do...but the slow burn is better than the flash in the pan EVERY TIME.

I know that YOU don't like the idea of getting VC; don't do it. Don't do it! It's YOUR company at the end of the day, and we wouldn't want it any other way.

Richard
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 13:12:49 Reply

Shut up and take my money Tom.

MultiCanimefan
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 13:13:24 Reply

Keep it solo.

GreyW0Lf
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 13:30:28 Reply

I would go for solo
This site is so personal and so real, I would really hate if this becomes like Youtube.

Another option would be to take the VC but go with really slow steps, taking just small amounts of money, so that the site's ownership could be 75% Tom/25% other company. Its always good to have the strongest leadership in your own website.


Do you want a hot coffee?

DannyJay
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 13:45:24 Reply

Stay the same ol' Mom & Pop Newgrounds, Tom.


Don't be afraid of failure.

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T3XT
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 13:48:24 Reply

How does one ensure the initial investor in the venture capital will get back what they bargained for?

Or do they?
pirateplatypus
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 13:50:24 Reply

At 4/13/12 10:55 PM, toxisfuckingdumb wrote: this is what happens when you take business advice from teenagers

nearly everyone who said WHOOO MONEY does not understand capitalism apparently

Indeed. I'd recommend that anyone interested in a little bit more in depth view of capitalism read The Corporation by Joel Bakan.


"If loving Python is crazy then I don't want to be sane." -Diki

Trypper
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 14:13:51 Reply

Venture capitalism is without a doubt the way to go. In its true essence, it can allow you to do things with NG not previously possible. With a higher grade budget, increase productivity, and linear progression. Cover vast distances in short amounts of time.

It's life, take the risk. Do the best you can do, while you can do it.

Take the money.


Let Freedom Fucking Ring.
Rungs SEO

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Wurfel-Waffles
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 14:27:36 Reply

I doubt 90% of teenies and skids on here even know what's venture capital or simply what is capitalism. Tom you are making a huge mistake for asking a bunch of trolls and nonsensical teenagers about MONEY. or worse: investing MONEY.

VC's Definition anyone?
Risk Capital

More reading:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-rosenbaum/venture-capita l-danger-an_b_556543.html
From VC's Boss: Tom Perkins >> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-perkins-idUSTRE 78C4ZT20110913
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=294 6
http://bsr.london.edu/lbs-article/605/index.html

Some more actual research:
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=risk+and+independent+vent ure+capitalists&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=
ScGJT-etMMrgggfS_-zHBg&ved=0CDAQgQMwAA

http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7qm9h594


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horsenwelles
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 15:24:52 Reply

risk=bravery.

when you nut up and take the capitalism route, you are not only showing how profitable this massive community is, but just how innovative and commercially savvy we are. when YOU make a business decision as crucial as this, it shows that every backing member has that "go-getter" ability.

take the VC route. it would not only allow for a better image for this company, but every contributing member.


flank, the dog

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Zachary
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 15:37:19 Reply

At 4/14/12 03:24 PM, dante224 wrote: risk=bravery.

It would be a risk either way so...


.

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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 15:59:44 Reply

You could do it, but you should be VERY careful not to stray away from your mission statement and destroy the very thing that made NG so popular. The whole ''Everything, by Everyone'' is what made NG so unique.
You've kept this site running for 13 years, and maybe it's time for NG to go bigger than before. However, remember what happened to Youtube. Don't be like Youtube. :(


New tune: Yag

Bit
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 16:42:14 Reply

Don't sell Newgrounds. It's not worth the potential destruction of the site.

It could end well, but just the same, it could turn Newgrounds into YouTube or even cause its ruination.

MONEY

Sharu
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 17:02:51 Reply

At 4/14/12 09:58 AM, Korriken wrote: I'd say take option C. Newgrounds artists get together and develop games to sell. Surely after Alien Hominid and Castle Crashers a company would take something made by the newgrounds community and run with it.

make a demo version and put it on newgrounds, once it gets in a nice bucket of positive reviews, show it off to a few companies and see what happens.

I really like this idea.

Also, I have to say I don't support the VC option. It seems too much like selling out to companies that don't have any interest in the community that has been built here, only for whatever profit that they can glean from it.

Granted, while there could be a great return and the site could really expand and grow, I honestly don't think it's worth the risk of, as others have said, becoming a YouTube.


"there is no true end to any fairy-tale"~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Timmy
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 17:09:40 Reply

At 4/13/12 08:31 PM, ZJ wrote: It's clear that your law school has turned you away from the Timmy we all knew and loved and into a cold, calculating bastard who's obsessed with money (i.e. true lawyer). What a shame.

I'm not obsessed with money, but if it is a choice between allowing my site to limp along, praying for traffic/advertisement revenue to increase, or getting a huge influx of money at the expense of independent ownership, I would likely choose the latter 99 times out of 100.

Somethings are worth more than money, Timmy. Guess you don't see that yet. Got some growing up to do . . . Better to die a beloved poor man than a rich asshole.

The naivety of your last sentence makes it clear that I'm not the only one who has to "grow up", ZJ. This isn't a black/white issue where Tom is a saint if he refuses the funding and a cold-hearted "asshole" if he accepts it.

If I were in Tom's position, I would take the investment money at the expense of the site's independent ownership.

Better for the site to exist and thrive under a Google.com ownership than to die a slow and revenue-bleeding death over time.


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Psychopath
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 17:11:29 Reply

Keep going solo.

Coop
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 18:16:48 Reply

At 4/13/12 03:56 PM, TomFulp wrote: 2) Take VC money. Spend the next five years being AMAZING, sponsor every game developer and every artist and rule the entire internet. IT MIGHT WORK,

I like the sound of being an NG shareholder, but then again, selling out to VC does sound like it makes NG mainstream, as opposed to underground, where we almost belong...


Will it ever end. Yes, all human endeavour is pointless ~ Bill Bailey
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citricsquid
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 19:04:31 Reply

At 4/14/12 05:02 PM, Sharu wrote: Granted, while there could be a great return and the site could really expand and grow, I honestly don't think it's worth the risk of, as others have said, becoming a YouTube.

you mean youtube, the site that lots of talented people have left ng for and the site that is able to support tens of thousands of content creators and let them LIVE off their creative output?

Newgrounds being like Youtube would be the greatest thing in the world, newgrounds should aspire to be as supportive of content creators as Youtube is.

Richard
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 19:18:25 Reply

At 4/14/12 07:04 PM, citricsquid wrote:
Newgrounds being like Youtube would be the greatest thing in the world, newgrounds should aspire to be as supportive of content creators as Youtube is.

No. Just because you sold out and made a shit load of money to feed ducks with while skipping community college doesn't mean that it would be the same for newgrounds.

citricsquid
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 19:22:43 Reply

At 4/14/12 07:18 PM, DickBuns wrote: No. Just because you sold out and made a shit load of money to feed ducks with while skipping community college doesn't mean that it would be the same for newgrounds.

wat

Richard
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 19:26:10 Reply

At 4/14/12 07:22 PM, citricsquid wrote:
At 4/14/12 07:18 PM, DickBuns wrote: No. Just because you sold out and made a shit load of money to feed ducks with while skipping community college doesn't mean that it would be the same for newgrounds.
wat

I didn't stutter.

Tollo79
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 19:29:15 Reply

At 4/13/12 03:56 PM, TomFulp wrote: An increasing number of people tell me that Newgrounds should consider venture capital.

Venture capital means that investors give you a lot of money, and in return you do something that makes them rich. Because most websites don't actually figure out how to do that, the solution is generally to sell to a much larger company with disposable income and a fear of losing their own relevancy. Like how Facebook just spent $1 billion on Instagram because people weren't using Facebook for photo sharing as much as they used to.

Venture capital is fun because it lets you be really self righteous and everyone wants to hang out in your aura of money. Tumblr is cool because they let you post stuff and they don't have ads. Did you know they have raised over $125 million in venture capital? Is your page full of pictures gonna make their investors back that $125 million + profit?

Tom you and I both know that if you went VC then you would slowly have your creative power taken away from you and the investors or VC would start pushing you around and end up turning you in to Kongregate you know what I mean Tom don't give in to the power of GameStop don't do it tom it leads to RUIN!!!!! what attracted me to newgrounds is that it is rather indie it is not owned by a massive company and that the dude that made it is someone I would have as a friend unlike facebook....


Anyway there are two paths for NG, let me know which we should try because both have their ups and downs.

1) Keep being NG no matter what the cost. Yeah you are a big disappointment but we believe in you.

2) Take VC money. Spend the next five years being AMAZING, sponsor every game developer and every artist and rule the entire internet. IT MIGHT WORK, NG might become so successful the investors will get rich and back off, and it will be such a success it can just keep being a success forever.

Thoughts

Tollo79

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Zone51
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 19:41:31 Reply

i say keep NG the way it is but i think it would be better known in the world than fade into obscurity.
(sorry for my english, im just not used to it)

Rabid-Echidna
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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 20:05:05 Reply

At 4/13/12 04:12 PM, TomFulp wrote:
With money I think I could turn NG into a billion dollar company. I just don't have good evidence for what would happen to it after that.

I know that this quote is back from page one but I just wanted to say that it's precious.

Making a billion dollars is the easy part, I just don't have a good idea of how I would spend it all yet.


My art gallery, because I'm better than you at things.

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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 20:17:41 Reply

VC all the way, man!


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Response to MONEY 2012-04-14 22:32:03 Reply

I would prefer you take the path which retains Newgrounds as it is. I frequent this site because of what it is and is not, so if it were to change I would probably leave.

Then again, I am not the professional here Tom, use your own Judgement, after all it's your sweat and tears we're just along for the ride.


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Response to MONEY 2012-04-15 00:34:47 Reply

Go for it! :O

An idea would be to have contests or some incentive to have all the artists on this site to produce material advertising whoever is sponsoring us.


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Response to MONEY 2012-04-15 03:39:32 Reply

I think you know the company better than us. If you feel like going for the money, do it.

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Response to MONEY 2012-04-15 04:11:11 Reply

Erm... I'm not too keen on Newgrounds being sold, so don't take the money!

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Response to MONEY 2012-04-15 04:51:54 Reply

At 4/13/12 03:56 PM, TomFulp wrote: An increasing number of people tell me that Newgrounds should consider venture capital.

Venture capital means that investors give you a lot of money, and in return you do something that makes them rich. Because most websites don't actually figure out how to do that, the solution is generally to sell to a much larger company with disposable income and a fear of losing their own relevancy. Like how Facebook just spent $1 billion on Instagram because people weren't using Facebook for photo sharing as much as they used to.

Venture capital is fun because it lets you be really self righteous and everyone wants to hang out in your aura of money. Tumblr is cool because they let you post stuff and they don't have ads. Did you know they have raised over $125 million in venture capital? Is your page full of pictures gonna make their investors back that $125 million + profit?

Anyway there are two paths for NG, let me know which we should try because both have their ups and downs.

1) Keep being NG no matter what the cost. Yeah you are a big disappointment but we believe in you.

2) Take VC money. Spend the next five years being AMAZING, sponsor every game developer and every artist and rule the entire internet. IT MIGHT WORK, NG might become so successful the investors will get rich and back off, and it will be such a success it can just keep being a success forever.

Thoughts

If you take people's money, you have to "take their advice." When it's just you, it's JUST you. You saw the reaction to the redesign. How would your stress level have been if those comments and complaints were from investors instead of all us NG junkies?? Also, it's easier to get them IN than it is to get them OUT if/when you want to. How can NG make money to re-coup the investor's $ + profit? If you can re-coup money for them, you can get money for you. And me. Because you luv me. <3

If you want NG to be taken seriously, then you may want to look seriously at some of the issues around the site.

1. People have mentioned how some people think this is a hentai site. Perception is very important. I was shocked by the animations that were up during the redesign down-time. Some animations were very good, as NG used to be. Unfortunately, enough of the 'Newgrounds Update Bulletin' animations were homo-themed that even I found myself raising an eyebrow. Now, those of us who have been around here for a while know it's a joke, but what about the others? If you have them, go back thru and add up what percentage had cock jokes, gay-like characters, Wade and Stamper washing the tank in short shorts, and that sort of thing. If people think this is a gay site, the reputation is damaged. I know this isn't a gay site, and I've seen some crazy stuff in my time here on NG, but even I was embarrassed by the amount of gay-related stuff posted up during that time, so I can imagine what others might have thought.

2. The quality control needs a boost. When I started here 7 years ago, good animations got thru, but unimpressive, incomplete, broken, spam, or bad stuff got blammed. People have forgotten what quality is, or maybe new people have never been taught. The Portal has had too many tests, trailers, incomplete parts and bits, spam, and unimpressive stuff get thru. I have a solution, though. I've suggested it before, but maybe in this light it will help.

If any flash ever gets to a score of 1.00(?) or less, and stays there for a week, then it should be blammed automatically by the system. This ends spam flashes because they will eventually be deleted. This helps with quality control because if something makes it thru judgement, but then drops in score, the error eventually goes away. Heck, blam score is 1.50, so why should anything with a lesser score still be on here? I know authors who have many submissions with all or most of them having less than 1.50 scores, and people's opinion of NG is based on what this site retains and presents.

My vote is if you can pay the bills currently, then stay sovereign and refuse the investor's VC. ...or find other ways for people to invest? If you have the bills being paid, the site can be streamlined and improved, and income sources can be added and improved, all while remaining stress-free (relatively). If you have to please the investors, the pressure can be unrelenting, and that takes the fun out of what you've built for yourself (and us). And what was Newgrounds built for in the first place? A labor of love by "some dumb kid" which has also managed to pay your light bill for longer than you originally imagined.

"...No, it wasn't made by some giant company - just some dumb kid" -Tom Fulp's profile

Sorry that's so long. Hope this helps, Tom.

exedor :)