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EyeTrauma
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:28 PM Reply

Stay solo. Yes, money is nice and such and such, but I don't want this site changing for the worse, and in taking the money there's a large chance that could happen. It's called selling yourself out. So, though money is clearly going to win, I say stay solo. I would just hate this site to change anything beyond free.

Also on an unrelated side note, when is that Writer's Portal coming out!?

14hourlunchbreak
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:28 PM Reply

I don't know a hella lot about finance but I know that venture capital gives up sole ownership of your website. Unless you can control who the other owners are and have them be like minded individuals who understand the concept of Newgrounds, it's risky. USE YOUR BEST JUDGMENT.


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The-Great-One
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:28 PM Reply

I guess if you're looking to take venture capital and do dealings with bigger companies, I suggest contacting members of the Symphony of Specters, since they themselves do indeed deal with big companies.


| The Interviewer | Review Terms 3.0 | [This Space For Rent ] | Club Stoic |

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Zachary
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:29 PM Reply

Don't take the money. I'd rather see Newgrounds grow through means of having amazing content ( which it does ) than getting larger solely on the fact that it has more money. You mentioned that Newgrounds could end up being sold to a larger company and then being transformed into something completely different. Obviously that would be extremely devastating to artists who use Newgrounds to express themselves.

The only way I see venture capital being a wise option is if you are guaranteed to not have to be sold to a larger company.


.

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TomFulp
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:29 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:27 PM, TehSlapHappy wrote: Didn't Tom from MySpace have this same decision to make?

MySpace was created by Intermix (formerlly EUniverse) and Tom was an employee-turned figurehead. And yes I'll say it, EUniverse wanted to buy Newgrounds, was bitter when I turned it down and Tom as a site figurehead was inspired by me. True story.


This is the game JohnnyUtah and I have been working on.

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Luwano
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:29 PM Reply

Look, I wish NG to become the biggest and most succesful website of all time, but seriously VC is a incredibly high risk for a site that's biggest resource is it's own soul. A soul made of regular and continuely contributing users, a rather young staff that is really close to its userbase (even though they have been even closer some time ago) and unique events derived from its very own history.

Can you keep this soul when there are investors watching all of your moves and decisions, who solely care for revenue? Can you NOT sell out? Will all of the staff still work with the same enthusiasm and have the same fun as before? This may sound like silly arguments, but this happened to many other websites before.

On the other hand, can you keep up with the development of the internet with no additional capital? Do you have plans to conquer the mobile internet market? Cause a big portion of your main audience already uses their phones for their "daily internet routine".

Both ways are dangerous. Going solo means winning or losing step by step. Going with VC means winning or losing with a big bang.

I personally love how NG is an independent place rather than another sad attempt of either Google or Facebook to win the upper hand in the "who owns the internet" war.

Ultimately you should ask yourself "Can we make it on our own?". If you see a realistic chance to grow without being dependent, I'd say go for it. I believe in you guys a million more times than in a hundred dozens of money craving vultures in grey suits.

NG went through many ups and downs over the years. When you were on the lowest point after that so-called internet bubble bursted, what do you think would have happened if investors had to decide how to continue with the site? Would NG still exist?


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Eltro2kneo
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:32 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:27 PM, TehSlapHappy wrote: Didn't Tom from MySpace have this same decision to make?

Yeah, and as a result, it became a ghost town.


Words do not kill people, people kill words.
You have no enemies, you are your enemy.
Eltro Mato

14hourlunchbreak
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:32 PM Reply

Also, I thought this thread would be about giving out free money to everyone. I'm a little disappointed Tom.


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AsthmaticHamster
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:34 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:20 PM, Vonschlippe wrote: I am definitely for the option of venture capital.

As long as nobody loses ownership rights over their own work. (Kinda like posting something on facebook makes the photo their own intellectual property... yeah, fuck that)

That's a very important and valid point.

Daikenkini
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:36 PM Reply

Venture Capital!


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Markface
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:36 PM Reply

I fucking love this site with a passion. It's a haven for artists and holds the jewels of creativity for the internet. Newgrounds needs to be run by a bunch of 30-something-year-olds who make animations about dicks and prefer to promote creativity rather than money from repetitive blog videos ('sup YouTube).

I don't want it to change. Keep Newgrounds the way it is, but ultimately this is a choice for you, Tom.


[;];=]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

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AppleJack
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:39 PM Reply

Do choice 2
But you need to have marketing plan before doing so.

SpiffyMasta
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:42 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:15 PM, TomFulp wrote:
See at first I was disappointed that everyone told me to take money, but now when I read this I suddenly realize it was kinda fun when everyone was telling me to take money... Because taking money meant living the dream. I don't even think it's about greed so much as just wanting to build something big. I want to build something big. I just want to do it without someone else being able to destroy it. But I feel like I'm failing either way.

That's because most of the people that say take the money aren't really thinking about it, and certainly can't even begin to comprehend what kind of decision that is. The average person responding to this thread is under 20 and has never lived on their own. Their choice is obvious.

I think you've built something big already, maybe you don't realize that. It's not everybody that can say they built a website from scratch that revolutionized the internet. If you think about where you started and where you're at today, I'd say that's a great accomplishment.

In the end, it's about what you need to do for yourself and your family. Either way, I think you've built a legacy that can't be forgotten.

FrozenFire
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:43 PM Reply

Newgrounds is that place that everyone has heard of, but everyone is afraid to go because they think it's just a site for hentai.

That's the image you should try to push away... could help your case. :P

EASTBEAST
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:44 PM Reply

Venture capitalism would blatantly go against the ideas this site was founded on. It would only be a matter of time before they implement intense filtering systems of "Certain Things by Certain People." Obviously this site is not as popular as Youtube, or facebook, but that's the allure of it to me. It's not an over-produced pile of nothing. I don't think taking the money is worth the true face of NG. I respect you want to take this site to full potential, but compromising fabric of this site for money would be a sad thing for a one of a kind place.


Writing songs for cigarettes and credit would be cool.

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Eltro2kneo
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:47 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:43 PM, FrozenFire wrote: Newgrounds is that place that everyone has heard of, but everyone is afraid to go because they think it's just a site for hentai.

That's the image you should try to push away... could help your case. :P

Couldn't agree more.


Words do not kill people, people kill words.
You have no enemies, you are your enemy.
Eltro Mato

TomFulp
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:47 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:43 PM, FrozenFire wrote: Newgrounds is that place that everyone has heard of, but everyone is afraid to go because they think it's just a site for hentai.

That's the image you should try to push away... could help your case. :P

Investors would want us to delete the hentai anyway... Although Goldman Sachs had a 16% stake in a website that thrived on human trafficking and Ann Romney was invested in it via a trust...


This is the game JohnnyUtah and I have been working on.

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Gein
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:48 PM Reply

If you sell out this site is just going to become a cesspool of unwanted shit and you will lose a whole community of artists, musicians, and programmers.

good job tom
pouar
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:48 PM Reply

don't sell out, the big companies have enough money and power


while :;do if windows sucks;then mv windows /dev/null;pacman -Sy linux;fi;done

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Heretic-Anchorite
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:48 PM Reply

I say VC

Love risk.

Without risk there is no reward.

Did you know that after humanity developed into a agricultural society, diet and life actually got worse? As hunter-gatherers we may have easily had a relatively stable life. Without that risk, we would still be the primitive, and naive hunter-gatherers, and it is through risk that we gain evolution.

It is tempting to just leave everything the same, but to do so would be to fall to the illusions of stability, and at the cost of progress.

If you want progress, If you want to be more then you currently are, then you must love risk.

On a side note, If you are going to go VC then I will definitely be interested in investing.


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CrackerJack30
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:48 PM Reply

I love NG, but let's face it: money makes the world go round!

Take the cash, do your best - I'm rather sure it will work out fine. I'll stay, no matter what will happen. semper fi.

Revo357912
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:48 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:42 PM, SpiffyMasta wrote:
At 4/13/12 04:15 PM, TomFulp wrote:
See at first I was disappointed that everyone told me to take money, but now when I read this I suddenly realize it was kinda fun when everyone was telling me to take money... Because taking money meant living the dream. I don't even think it's about greed so much as just wanting to build something big. I want to build something big. I just want to do it without someone else being able to destroy it. But I feel like I'm failing either way.
That's because most of the people that say take the money aren't really thinking about it, and certainly can't even begin to comprehend what kind of decision that is. The average person responding to this thread is under 20 and has never lived on their own. Their choice is obvious.

I'm 19, but have owned a jewelry business in the past and am now starting up a car business. I've lost my old NG account, but have seen it change since 2002.

I think the VC can be very helpful in boosting the creativity here through financial sponsorship, as well as give an increase to the quality over quantity work if it is done right. If content creators here have the chance to make an actual video game, a real music album, become known artists, create whole flash movies; that can really grow this site into something more. Maybe even older series can be completed, like Brakenwood.
Of course, this supposing Tom remains in control.


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NorskeDrittsekk
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:49 PM Reply

I choose the 1st option, Mr. Fulp. Stay where you are unless you want to lose your reputations and properties such as this site. Also I do not mention bankruptcy here yet.

Money isn't plain papers, my friends.

At 4/13/12 04:18 PM, Eltro2kneo wrote: The bigger you are, the harder you'll fall. Nobody wants to fall.

You are right. Venture capital financing is like a set of 2 blade knives. You may grow to super richness or you may fall to bankruptcy. There are more businesses sink into failure than just a few rise up to success while playing the VC game.

I am setting the metaphor of failure as the bigger blade which it points at the player's stomach.

Starters such as small business and online services can be trap into the fantasy circle of dreams of making quick money. It is extremely dangerous. in business the range from 60/40 to 70/30 is common for play-by-rules venture capitalists. Many fails when tried to reach over 70/30 and even up to 90/10. Why is that? There is no free lunch on this world. You must spend most and if not all your power and resources into managing the property flows and venturing. The more props you get the more risks you take in the present and future.

Once you are in the VC game then you are strongly dependent on shared market or industry. If one group goes to failujre then the other bigger one might affect by it greatly. Venture capital is an utopian financing only for stable market and therefore you need a stable economy.

Look at world economy today; does it stable enough for starters to stick their noses in the big guns' game?

Please choose your first step wisely if you are making serious choice, Mr. Thomas C. Fulp.

- NorskeDrittsekk

Eltro2kneo
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:49 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:48 PM, pouar wrote: don't sell out, the big companies have enough money and power

Exactly.


Words do not kill people, people kill words.
You have no enemies, you are your enemy.
Eltro Mato

MrPercie
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:50 PM Reply

But I dont see the downsides of taking the money but its really your decision.

But I go with the money option because it sounds good.


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pouar
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:51 PM Reply

plus I like the site because of the community and not depending on some big company whose only goal is make as much $$$ as they possibly can while screwing everyone else.


while :;do if windows sucks;then mv windows /dev/null;pacman -Sy linux;fi;done

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ZaneZansorrow
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:51 PM Reply

I say keep NG going as is, change that will screw you over sucks :/


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JoSilver
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:52 PM Reply

While I'm all for anything that helps out Newgrounds in the long haul, I can't help but be worried about Newgrounds losing it's identity. Large companies care about two things Money and making more Money. Nothing makes more money then mass appeal and I'd hate to see Newgrounds have to be censored. So far this is the only site that allows you to do whatever you want in terms of the content you can upload (so long as it's legal to do so and within Newgrounds "general rules") and not be a porn site. I can't make the choice for you about what to do, I just hope that Newgrounds can still have this level of freedom no matter what.

I say take the money because it's your website and not mine and if Newgrounds ever has to be censored then I'll just have to make my own site.

It would be a shame if I had to though, Newgrounds is such an awesome website.
TheSavant
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:53 PM Reply

What do you actually think the site would gain by going the VC route?

Clearly you would be able to sponsor more games and animation because you'd have the extra funds, but other than that, how do you think the site would improve? Through watching the site develop since 2006, I can tell how this site isn't really about making you or your employees money. You're just thrilled that you can make a living doing this. It seems that in order to make this site hugely profitable, you would be required to change some of the very foundations of the site.

If you can think of changes that you can make with the additional money that will improve the experiences of both site users and flash devs, then maybe VC would be worth it. But unless you have a specific vision in mind other than being able to sponsor more artists, there is no reason to sell out to VC.

Basically, the heart and soul of NG relies on its being autonomous. It is the fact that the site has everything and supports everyone from dudes doing stupid Sonic spoofs to people like Shadman who earn their reputation doing gruesome art. VC isn't going to like the fact that people like Shadman exist and are celebrated on this site, and that's a bad deal for NG. Part of the reason the site is so successful in the first place is because it filters very little content. And while it is true that no one really needs people like Shad, they are what keeps this site so different from most others.

If you lose your autonomy and become just another flash portal that sponsors a bunch of flash artists, I don't see how NG would be any different than Armour Games or Kongregate. That wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily, I like those sites, but there is something special about the heart of NG that keeps it much more interesting. I'm against selling out to VC. However, if you have a real plan on how the site can accept this money and turn the site into something way better than what it is now, I might be persuaded.

Also, this shouldn't be a popular vote thing. Honestly, most of the kids here don't seem to understand how much would be at stake going for VC. They just see dollars going to their favorite website and think that has to be positive.


On the porch is where I sit. My car is on the fritz. And I don't give a shit

Luwano
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Response to MONEY Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:54 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:15 PM, TomFulp wrote:
See at first I was disappointed that everyone told me to take money

The proper responses just take longer to type. I thought you learned that in the many years you run NG. :P

But seriously, although I failed for the thread, I am really glad that this is just a reminder rather than a real decision that you consider.


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