At 7/13/06 12:53 PM, DaSadGirl wrote: I have to agree with you on this one, 100%. I hate how over here in the U.S. they make the Palestinians look like the terrorists. I had to do some research and learn about this issue in one of my classes. In my opinion, Israel is the real terrorist.

( 20

Hmmm.

I not entirely sure it's just a one sided terrorist thing going on here. I think both sides have their low blows to each side.

U.S. will always be pro Israel though. We're Christians and that is the holy land.

I honestly think this is a holy war. It goes all the way back thousands of years.

The Muslims, The Jews, And The Christians.

All fighting constantly. Bent on envtual World Destruction from what started out on a dissagreement of belief.

At 7/13/06 01:15 PM, Jedi_Master_Bate wrote: Yes the palistinians are the true abomination we should kill all of the god damn turban heads and then that will solve quite a few problems they are animals and the deserve to be slaughterd like animals. Kill Allah

I bet you get real high grades in school when you are told to participate in a political debate.

/sarcasm

I'm with your Turandot I support you and I will continue to condemn the Israeli government's acts of fear,oppression,and intimidation.

At 7/13/06 12:46 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 7/13/06 12:26 PM, 4aces wrote:

:So the religious leaders control all the Israel based jobs, electricity, gas and water, the religious leaders walk on the streets arresting, beating and even killing people at random?

israeli soldiers do not beat ,kill or arrest at random-and you have no proof to support your claim...which is ludicrous and biased........ (i can tell you from experience that you will be jaild for a very long time for such acts..)

Or because they feel angry for being pushed away from a land that was theirs?

if anything jews have more of a claim to israel than the pallies...-the jewish settlement began in the mid 19th century WAY before the birth of the palestinian nationality...(and the term palestinians) -when the zionist movement was already purchasig land(yes you read right-a large part of israel was BOUGHT WITH MONEY by jewish/zionist companies responsibe (keren kayemet,the jewish company...) infact most of the land is bought...)...israel was a complete wasteland governed by the ottomans-ironically enough the prosperity of the jewish settlement and the conquest of israel by britian were the reasons for the creation of the palestinians(which are mostly composed of ex-syrians,egyptians,lebanese etc.-who migrated to israel)....

There are large groups of peacefull palestinians. What you see are the most vocal ones, the ones that are not peacefull. Most people are on neither side. Mostly bitter, but just trying to get on with their lives. Which isn't easy under occupation.

actually peacfull pallies are the minority(i can show you polls done by international institutions..but the post is already long enough)-but i agree,there are peacful ones...and i wish they governed and controlled the authority.... maybe then peace could exist....

Well, Israel seemed to think the rigthfull place for Palestinians would be the dessert. Well, I guess it's better than the sea, but note, that Palestinians aren't just arabs, and are as fine anywhere else. it's like saying someone from Switzerland would be fine in Germany. I mean, same language, right? The host countries of the refugees deny them rights sometimes even more than Israel, they are second class citizens (that is, if they were citizens).

all i can say on that is ..no(and i studied these subjects pretty extensively...so don't argue..) (i assume you meant desert and not dessert...-we aren't cannibals :I)

They took arms after they were driven from their homes. So Israel started it, be it then so that they weren't a country yet.

haha...they took arms after they rejected the existence of the jewish state..agreed on in the un plan....those who fled listened to their leaders that claimed they would come back after each and every one of the jews would be dead......

And you think that's the awnser? Killing bunch oof innocent people to catch one or two bad guys? Israel is just growing the bitterness and hate within the ranks of Palestinians.

no......and this is the only place where i agree with you..israel does exaggarate sometimes-but i can't think of a better solution....-look at it this way :what government would be re-elected after responding with a restraind attitude towards the killing of soldiers and israeli civilians..... it all comes down to politics.... (the US does a lot worse than israel in iraq...after all..)

At 7/13/06 01:16 PM, SlipperyMooseCakes wrote: U.S. will always be pro Israel though. We're Christians and that is the holy land.

I honestly think this is a holy war. It goes all the way back thousands of years.

The Muslims, The Jews, And The Christians.

All fighting constantly. Bent on envtual World Destruction from what started out on a dissagreement of belief.

It's not about religion. It's about land. The Palestinians lived there. They got fucked by the brits, and pushed out. They want their land back.

Because Israel for long were extremely stubborn, extremism emerged, extremism that wanted to destroy all of Israel. Before 1947, jews and arabs in the area got along allright.

Also, Human Shields? Sure. Because they couldn't have been civillians in the house. The image enforced by many is that evry single person in the Pallestinian areas and the surrounding countries are bloodthirsty murderers who thrive nothing less than the complete wipeout of the Jewish people.

So tell me, are all American and european greedy perverts who think only about money and sex, and constantly conspire with the jews to take over the world and to destroy the Arabian culure? Because that is how they see you. Truth be told, most people are moderate, sometimes bitter. But no way the whole Muslim world wants to drive Israel into the ocean.

At 7/13/06 01:37 PM, 4aces wrote: israeli soldiers do not beat ,kill or arrest at random-and you have no proof to support your claim...which is ludicrous and biased........ (i can tell you from experience that you will be jaild for a very long time for such acts..)

Well, if you have experience of that, it has happened? Not at a large scale, but it has happened. And still. More or less all the jobs in the area are controlled by Israel, and you keep people hostage for them. You treat them like semi-slaves.

if anything jews have more of a claim to israel than the pallies...-the jewish settlement began in the mid 19th century WAY before the birth of the palestinian nationality...(and the term palestinians) -when the zionist movement was already purchasig land(yes you read right-a large part of israel was BOUGHT WITH MONEY by jewish/zionist companies responsibe (keren kayemet,the jewish company...) infact most of the land is bought...)

But from whom? Do you really think they would be this angry if they had all left voluntarely after seeling their land?

...israel was a complete wasteland governed by the ottomans-ironically enough the prosperity of the jewish settlement and the conquest of israel by britian were the reasons for the creation of the palestinians(which are mostly composed of ex-syrians,egyptians,lebanese etc.-who migrated to israel)....

But there were people who had lived there all their lives, who were forced out.

actually peacfull pallies are the minority(i can show you polls done by international institutions..but the post is already long enough)-but i agree,there are peacful ones...and i wish they governed and controlled the authority.... maybe then peace could exist....

Well, constant strikes against civillian targets don't really help.

Well, Israel seemed to think the rigthfull place for Palestinians would be the dessert. Well, I guess it's better than the sea, but note, that Palestinians aren't just arabs, and are as fine anywhere else. it's like saying someone from Switzerland would be fine in Germany. I mean, same language, right? The host countries of the refugees deny them rights sometimes even more than Israel, they are second class citizens (that is, if they were citizens).

all i can say on that is ..no(and i studied these subjects pretty extensively...so don't argue..) (i assume you meant desert and not dessert...-we aren't cannibals :I)

No what? When people live in an area, they identfy themselves as occupant o the area. When you live in a Israel/Palestine, it is different from Lebanon or Syria. And yes, they are treated by shit by their 'brethren' as some early Zionist referred to them.

haha...they took arms after they rejected the existence of the jewish state..agreed on in the un plan....those who fled listened to their leaders that claimed they would come back after each and every one of the jews would be dead......

Jewish state IN THAT PLACE. If I came to your house, kicked you out and said this is now an Anarcho-Syndicalist commune, what would you do?

(the US does a lot worse than israel in iraq...after all..)

Well, that's just few years, this is half a century. And I don't exactly applaud the attack on Iraq.

At 7/13/06 01:37 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 7/13/06 01:16 PM, SlipperyMooseCakes wrote:

It's not about religion. It's about land. The Palestinians lived there. They got fucked by the brits, and pushed out. They want their land back.

Because Israel for long were extremely stubborn, extremism emerged, extremism that wanted to destroy all of Israel. Before 1947, jews and arabs in the area got along allright.

But no way the whole Muslim world wants to drive Israel into the ocean.

i could show you some polls conducted in the palestinian public concerning this...(it's just very difficult finding them in english...)

and regarding the so-called "stealing of the land" -see my post above yours....

"Before 1947, jews and arabs in the area got along allright."
hahahahhaha-no...... hear of the arab rebellion?,the tarzav-tarzat incidents?(i have a lot of these) i'll just say it was WORSE before 1947.....

At 7/13/06 01:47 PM, 4aces wrote: and regarding the so-called "stealing of the land" -see my post above yours....

I'm still saying, if they went voluntarely, why are they g´fighting?

"Before 1947, jews and arabs in the area got along allright."
hahahahhaha-no...... hear of the arab rebellion?,the tarzav-tarzat incidents?(i have a lot of these) i'll just say it was WORSE before 1947.....

Well, some source? From my knowledge, there was no active state of war or anything similar pre-47 in the area.

At 7/13/06 01:37 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 7/13/06 01:16 PM, SlipperyMooseCakes wrote: U.S. will always be pro Israel though. We're Christians and that is the holy land.

I honestly think this is a holy war. It goes all the way back thousands of years.

The Muslims, The Jews, And The Christians.

All fighting constantly. Bent on envtual World Destruction from what started out on a dissagreement of belief.

It's not about religion. It's about land. The Palestinians lived there. They got fucked by the brits, and pushed out. They want their land back.

This is where you go wrong. It is about Religions and land, I quote militants. 'Those Jewish dogs will pay'. The land was given to the Jews in far away biblical times (Yes I believe the bible) and even Muslims confirmed that, altough they were banned from ever writing an article short after, they still confirmed it. What the Palestinians want is for the jews to leave Israel especially Jerusalem and give over the entire country. All of this crap is about religion my friend, it is not land. Hamas government uses that as an excuse to try and break their ties with their militant wing. Tough it is impossible for them to do so because that is where they get their money.

Because Israel for long were extremely stubborn, extremism emerged, extremism that wanted to destroy all of Israel. Before 1947, jews and arabs in the area got along allright.

Excuse me but that is bullshit. The jews lived in Arab states and in 48 their own state was founded. It is infact well known that while WW2 lasted a lot of arabs were allies of Hitler who would conduct targeted whipe outs of jews in the middle east. Jews and Arabs never fully liked eachother.

Also, Human Shields? Sure. Because they couldn't have been civillians in the house.

There were terrorists in the house. And yes human shields, do you see other armies that send families to the battle front? You see, contradictary to Islamic Extremists, we try to shelter our children from violence until they can reach an age where they can understand certain things in order not to become blood thursty monsters. The aim of a Muslim extremist is to spoon feed violence to the kids, since in an early age you can easily manipulate kids.

The image enforced by many is that evry single person in the Pallestinian areas and the surrounding countries are bloodthirsty murderers who thrive nothing less than the complete wipeout of the Jewish people.

That image is generally wrong, I will give you that. Tough the Peace loving Arab is a general minority. Please don't get me wrong, I love peace, I am not one of those people who likes to kill. Hell I live in one of the most if not the most liberal country in the world, and I am proud of it. But Israel gave the Palestinians so many chances to stop their own attacks from inside. They gave them weapons, food, water, money, shelter all of those things to stop it, but what did they do? They used the money to fund terrorism and the weapons for killing Israeli civilians.

So tell me, are all American and european greedy perverts who think only about money and sex, and constantly conspire with the jews to take over the world and to destroy the Arabian culure? Because that is how they see you. Truth be told, most people are moderate, sometimes bitter. But no way the whole Muslim world wants to drive Israel into the ocean.

Why do we conspire to take over the world and destroy arab Culture? Listen just because Jews happen to be smart (not something I brag about there are smart arabs aswell) and make loads of money doesn't mean we're evil. Yes I plan to be a millionaire one day and own a large house, 3 cars and have a beautiful and intelligent wife and kids to love and cherish . Is that bad? It is written in the Torah (Jewish Bible/Old Testament whatever you want to call it) that Jews should not go around and force people to live by their religion, and we don't.

Also as I said I do not accuse the whole of Islam. I know muslims myself, I talk to them, I know some of them are cool guys who mean no harm. But mind me, that as I said those are a minority. In general it IS true that a lot of Arabs do hate jews and would kill them if they could. I know this by first hand experience.

Sry for my late reply, 4 replies per 30 mins rule.

At 7/13/06 01:47 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 7/13/06 01:37 PM, 4aces wrote:

Well, if you have experience of that, it has happened? Not at a large scale, but it has happened. And still. More or less all the jobs in the area are controlled by Israel, and you keep people hostage for them. You treat them like semi-slaves.

i think there was one time...but i can't really remeber it(in 1953 i think the kasem village incident...but correct me if i'm wrong.. and once after that)-i do,however, remember the instructions given...and the punishment guaranteed......

But from whom? Do you really think they would be this angry if they had all left voluntarely after seeling their land?

they were bought personally from arab farmers and land owners.....it's just that the palestinian leaders used nazi propoganda like:"those jews are secretly and slowly corrupting our lands like they are in europe" kinda thing(they were in very good relations with nazi-germany...(i guess they didn't know that he hated arabs too)) ....... ofcourse the lands were bought legally-from farmers who couldn't care less about nationalism and cared a lot about money....

But there were people who had lived there all their lives, who were forced out.

no they were told to leave by the leadership with horror stories about the brutality of the jews...those who stayed were granted citiznship(like in haifa where i live-there are a LOT of arabs....)
also remeber that jews lived in israel for several thousands of years(some never left...and some came with the arabs and christians..jews were always a majority in jerusalem for example..)

Well, constant strikes against civillian targets don't really help.

true but again....-they are politicians-they need re-electing.....

No what? When people live in an area, they identfy themselves as occupant o the area. When you live in a Israel/Palestine, it is different from Lebanon or Syria. And yes, they are treated by shit by their 'brethren' as some early Zionist referred to them.

no they didn't want them in the desert(mostly because the jewish state by the division plan was composed mostly of the negev(the southern desert))...

Jewish state IN THAT PLACE. If I came to your house, kicked you out and said this is now an Anarcho-Syndicalist commune, what would you do?

no....jewish state alongside an arab one-wherever there was a jewish majority-the control was given to them and vise versa..... the jews were perfectly happy with the land they recieved....even though it was lesser -strategically and economically wise..

and israel is a democracy....

At 7/13/06 02:00 PM, JohnnyWang wrote: Well, some source? From my knowledge, there was no active state of war or anything similar pre-47 in the area.

well ....your information is false.......it was more like jews vs. britian

jews vs.arabs and and arabs vs. britian

i have to give it to the brits though...-until WW2 they always tried to remain neutral and objective.....(in WW2 of course they knew they would have the jewish support ...so they dismissed the idea of jewish sovereignity...and sort of "cancelld" the jewish state(thus began the jewish rebellion DUN DUN DUN..))

the terrorism in the 20's 30's and 40's was overwhelming.......-that is why britian finally left....

At 7/13/06 02:16 PM, -MuTe_EcHo- wrote: http://youtube.com/w..p;search=Palestinian

you think i'll disagree with you there?...that is what i was saying all along.....-keep the economical routes to the territories open as long as possible-full peole prefer not to kill....thew problem is that the 2nd intifadah-wasn't like the 1st...-they used RPG's not rocks...and they generated suicide bombers even before there was closure.......(before 2000..)-israel had to do something to stop the bombings(looking back...-that didn't work very well..)-but israel tried teaching them

no terrorism=food
terrorism=starvation

At 7/13/06 02:16 PM, -MuTe_EcHo- wrote: http://youtube.com/w..p;search=Palestinian

http://youtube.com/w..rch=suicide%20bomber

There.

And those blood thirsty Israeli's took the bomb off of her and safely set if off. They then still got her to a hospital and gave her free medical treatment. Wow boy they are sure as hell blood thirsty sons of a bitches, huh?

Also 4aces are you fine? I just heard Hesbollah fired rockets @ Haifa. Also I am going to Bat yam, I send you a pm can I have your e-mail for msn/aim?

Another news aricel I had recently seen.

Let me tell what it's about.

'Palestinian teens throwing bombs'

It's about Palestinian teens throwing bombs at Israeli soldiers just so they can get go to jail. They want to be send to an Israeli prison because there they get food, shelter (With A/C, yay!) and they get an education. In an interview a youngster said he would through a bomb again just to get back there. Another prove that the army does give a crap about civilians and does not treat them like Abu Ghraib (sp?) prisoners.

Also on another note, just to prove that I am not a fundamentalist. I know there are jewish fundamentalists and I do not support them. And contradictary to the Palestinian government the Israeli government does take actions again such groups and shuts them up.

I happen to disagree with your point of veiw. they have a right to protect itself, and will do so if needed. I dont know if you have a clear understanding of reasons to go to war, so let me enlighten you on my point of veiw: when one country kidnaps and holds soldiers of another country,It is considered an act of war. If someone kidnapped and threatened to kill one of your loved relatives, what would you do?

At 7/13/06 02:36 PM, -MuTe_EcHo- wrote:

At 7/13/06 02:35 PM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/13/06 02:16 PM, -MuTe_EcHo- wrote:

http://youtube.com/w..amp;search=palestine

want to keep this up?

http://youtube.com/w..ch=israel%20children

http://youtube.com/w..ch=israel%20children

We can find loads of these.

If I can find a pic of Israeli kids with limbs blown off I will post it.

The other day I watched the news, both Russian and Dutch and what do I see.

Exactly the same spot two reporters/

Dutch: Look at these poor Palestinians behind me walking with some sort of object on their back.

Russian: As you can see behind me the Palestinian youngsters are setting up a roadside bomb.

See, don't bring me clips, bring me your own opinion.

At 7/13/06 02:07 PM, -Akula- wrote: This is where you go wrong. It is about Religions and land, I quote militants. 'Those Jewish dogs will pay'.

Up untill recently Fatah (or Fateh, don't know which is right) and PFLP were the strongest factions, and they were both quite secular (especially PFLP, seeing it was Marxist-Leninist), and the Islamist, while they did allways hold a place, Hamas only came to power just recently.

Why do we conspire to take over the world and destroy arab Culture?

We don't. But that's the image they seem to have.

Listen just because Jews happen to be smart (not something I brag about there are smart arabs aswell) and make loads of money doesn't mean we're evil.

Off course not, but it's the image spread by the Islamics in Iran.

Yes I plan to be a millionaire one day and own a large house, 3 cars and have a beautiful and intelligent wife and kids to love and cherish . Is that bad?

Well, i would say yes, because that is ecologically unsustainable.

peacefull muslims a minority

I don't think that's all that true, it's more that the agressives are most vocal, and the other don't think it's their business to apologise for these people, because they themselves don't believe so.

At 7/13/06 02:45 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 7/13/06 02:07 PM, -Akula- wrote: This is where you go wrong. It is about Religions and land, I quote militants. 'Those Jewish dogs will pay'.

Up untill recently Fatah (or Fateh, don't know which is right) and PFLP were the strongest factions, and they were both quite secular (especially PFLP, seeing it was Marxist-Leninist), and the Islamist, while they did allways hold a place, Hamas only came to power just recently.

Why do we conspire to take over the world and destroy arab Culture?

We don't. But that's the image they seem to have.

Oh I thought it was your opinion, that was how I read it from your post, I am sorry.

Listen just because Jews happen to be smart (not something I brag about there are smart arabs aswell) and make loads of money doesn't mean we're evil.

Off course not, but it's the image spread by the Islamics in Iran.

See above, I apologise again.

Yes I plan to be a millionaire one day and own a large house, 3 cars and have a beautiful and intelligent wife and kids to love and cherish . Is that bad?

Well, i would say yes, because that is ecologically unsustainable.

Heh, I love you in a non homosexual way. I will try to run my place as clean as possible. I don't like to pollute, I live in a very green environment

peacefull muslims a minority

I don't think that's all that true, it's more that the agressives are most vocal, and the other don't think it's their business to apologise for these people, because they themselves don't believe so.

Yes but the way one sees a person is by those who represent it. The extremists want to represent their nations.

Now today I have been talking to my dad and uncle about all of this. My dad should become a political analyst in my opinon, when you had all of the crap in Ukraine with the elections and all of the crap with the parlement he predicted all of it.

But my Uncle said something wise today. Ofcourse not all muslims are bad, not all arabs are bad. But there is one big issue, poverty. The problem is that there are people who DO NOT want the violence to stop because they make money out of it. They blow themselfs up because there families get money for it. With this you will always have terrorism. So fighting poverty is also a useful tool in the war against terrorism.

Right now the palestinians are suffering.Israel has got itself into war.A war nobody wanted.My words cant do anything the suffering of the palestinians can only be expressed through eyes,and through visual aid.it's the only way supporters of Israel's wrong actions will realize that the real culprit is the one with the army invading and calling for war.

At 7/13/06 02:55 PM, -Akula- wrote: poverty.

Exactly.

When €U$A withdrew it's economical support after the election, it was a terrible mistake. Not the least because it's punishing them for voting how they feel, but also, since they can't pay peoples wages etc, many became desperate.

I'm not a fan of Hamas, since it's an extremist religious group. I don't like any extremist religious groups. Except maybe Buddhists, because their extremists are non-violents. Though I hate their passivness.

Israel arrests several members of the Palestinian cabinet - no problem.
Palestine kidnaps one Israeli soldier - Act of War.
Lebanon kidnap two Israeli soldiers - Open Fire.

Has anyone noticed that in itself isn't balanced?

At 7/13/06 03:02 PM, -MuTe_EcHo- wrote: Right now the palestinians are suffering.Israel has got itself into war.A war nobody wanted.My words cant do anything the suffering of the palestinians can only be expressed through eyes,and through visual aid.it's the only way supporters of Israel's wrong actions will realize that the real culprit is the one with the army invading and calling for war.

Yes but it is bullshit to only express one side of the situation and to blantantly ignore the other.

At 7/13/06 03:03 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 7/13/06 02:55 PM, -Akula- wrote: poverty.

Exactly.

When €U$A withdrew it's economical support after the election, it was a terrible mistake. Not the least because it's punishing them for voting how they feel, but also, since they can't pay peoples wages etc, many became desperate.

I'm not a fan of Hamas, since it's an extremist religious group. I don't like any extremist religious groups. Except maybe Buddhists, because their extremists are non-violents. Though I hate their passivness.

Maybe this may sound racist but the Islam is the only religion that has the whole 'all other religions are non believers' thing going on. They tried to kill jews, kill christians, Hindu's (Bombay bombing is an example) and even Buddhists. Again not all muslims are like this.

At 7/13/06 03:11 PM, -Akula- wrote: Maybe this may sound racist but the Islam is the only religion that has the whole 'all other religions are non believers' thing going on. They tried to kill jews, kill christians, Hindu's (Bombay bombing is an example) and even Buddhists. Again not all muslims are like this.

your wrong-jews and christiam= posess the same ideology........
religion in general is very ****** up.....
though jews haven't killed anybody out of a religous motivation....-christians certainly have.......

I'm not doing that because I don't think Israel is in the complete wrong.

Not that I'm saying Israel is innocent, but I don't think they blatenly kill civilians as you so blatently try to state. Civillian deaths are wrong, but it happens. The only way this could be avoided is if Israel doesn't attack the other countries. Israel wouldn't attack other countries if these militants and terrorist would stop attacking them.

Israel is MAKING terrorist? That statement is bold, but added on a list of the dumbest thing anyone could say anywhere EVER!

Now you say Israel is using some sort of bloodthirsty tactics to invade Lebanon? Lebanon isn't innocent at all. If they wanted to be innocent they wouldn't let any terrorist or Palastinian militants use Lebanon as a staging territory. They kidnapped two soldiers and killed 3 (I think).

Of course Israel is going to invade Lebanon! They are so tired to taking crap and want the everloving right to live despite their tactics.

Lebanon is not innocent and hasn't been in the past:
First Israeli invasion and occupation
Cross-border attacks by Palestinian groups in southern Lebanon against civilians in Israeli territory led to an invasion by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) on March 14, 1978 in what was titled the Litani River Operation. A few days later, the United Nations Security Council passed resolutions 425 and 426, calling for the withdrawal of Israeli forces, and establishing an international peace-keeping force in southern Lebanon, the United Nations Interim Force In Lebanon (UNIFIL). Three months later, on June 13, 1978, Israel completed the withdrawal of its troops, and turned over control of southern Lebanon to the SLA.

Second Israeli invasion and occupation
The PLO's armed forces continued to use Lebanon as a base to attack Israel with rockets and artillery, and on June 6, 1982 Israel again invaded Lebanon with the objective of evicting the PLO. Israeli forces occupied areas from the southern Lebanese border with Israel northward into areas of Beirut. During this invasion the Phalangist militia, under the command of Elie Hobeika, moved into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, with the knowledge of Israeli Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, and committed the first Sabra and Shatila massacre. Israel's plans for Lebanon suffered a severe setback on September 14, 1982, with the assassination of the Phalangist leader and President-elect Bachir Gemayel, who was regarded as secretly sympathetic to Israel.

I'm not saying Israel is in the right and should do its best to help out these countries after the attacks. But the idea of them sitting there and diplomatically trying to fix a situation while they are constantly attacked is something I can't wrap my mind around.

Even if Israel is in the wrong and they somehow happen to be the worst nation in the world the top countries aren't going to stop backing them. In fact the US is actually applauding their actions.

That's probably why much of those middle east countries hate the US is because its ties to Israel.

At 7/13/06 03:11 PM, -Akula- wrote:
Maybe this may sound racist but the Islam is the only religion that has the whole 'all other religions are non believers' thing going on. They tried to kill jews, kill christians, Hindu's (Bombay bombing is an example) and even Buddhists. Again not all muslims are like this.

http://www.vexen.co...mitism.html#Theology

In the UK at the very least, Christians persecuted Jews for hundred of years - notably throughout the Middle Ages, and they were depicted in the Old Testament as being descended from The Devil - not like the rest of Man, in other words.

And isn't Christianity well up on the "If you aren't one of us, you're a Heathen" approach? That's what I don't get, most of the criticism of Muslims can be said of Christianity - The Crusades, anyone?

At 7/13/06 03:18 PM, -MuTe_EcHo- wrote: http://youtube.com/w..amp;search=palestine

Let me help you

http://youtube.com/r..os&search=Search
http://youtube.com/r..relevance&page=1

Now stop link spamming PLEASE. It's annoying, I've seen all of it, trust me, I'VE SEEN ALL OF IT.

Also, note thatn Islam is 400 years younger a religion than christianity. Think what christianity was like 400 years ago.

At 7/13/06 03:26 PM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/13/06 03:18 PM, -MuTe_EcHo- wrote: http://youtube.com/w..amp;search=palestine

Let me help you

http://youtube.com/r..os&search=Search
http://youtube.com/r..relevance&page=1

Now stop link spamming PLEASE. It's annoying, I've seen all of it, trust me, I'VE SEEN ALL OF IT.

videos work much better then words but ok.

At 7/13/06 03:25 PM, D2KVirus wrote:

At 7/13/06 03:11 PM, -Akula- wrote:
Maybe this may sound racist but the Islam is the only religion that has the whole 'all other religions are non believers' thing going on. They tried to kill jews, kill christians, Hindu's (Bombay bombing is an example) and even Buddhists. Again not all muslims are like this.

http://www.vexen.co...mitism.html#Theology


In the UK at the very least, Christians persecuted Jews for hundred of years - notably throughout the Middle Ages, and they were depicted in the Old Testament as being descended from The Devil - not like the rest of Man, in other words.

And isn't Christianity well up on the "If you aren't one of us, you're a Heathen" approach? That's what I don't get, most of the criticism of Muslims can be said of Christianity - The Crusades, anyone?

Yes I know someone would bring up the Crusades. Ehm, the Crusaded were started by one man, the pope. Islamic Jihad is started by many people, not just one.

Ehm inside Islam you have to religions. 1 is Islam, the other 1 is Extremist. Now they just can't ban the Extremist wing. But please do not think of Israel as a racist nation who wants to wipe out the arab culture.

Now I wanted to say something but it totally escaped my mind, I guess debating on a hungry stomach isn't a good thing to do :P

I will come back to it later, also I would like to thank you all for giving me a chance to strenghten my debating skills. I got an A for Dutch class this year due to winning all of the Debates.

Once again thank you!

Also, one thing, in case you didn't know:

I am not anti-Israel. I am not pro-muslim, pro-judaism or anything. I'm pro-socialism, but that's hardly relevant here.

In the current situation, I support Palestine, since they are the underdog, and they often lack basic necesseraties. They have a right to live, and since they're not recieveing the same hefty benefits Israel is, someone needs to help them to build their own future.

In my ideal situation, the area would be a secular, or bi-religious country where people can leave side by side, and not diveded in different areas. Israelites have a right for a land. Palestinians have a right for a land.

How this would be reached? Israel needs to take a less agressive stance, start giving aid to palestinians in need (some money diverted away from the army, you still get millions from USA, what's a few choppers less?). You need to open discussion, and start a ceasefire, 100%, no occational firings. A small period when you will absolutely not attack anyone unless they attack you. You need to declare Palestine and Palestinians, because despite what they tell you, THEY DO EXIST AS A NATION AND A PEOPLE.

Off course, Palestinians need to do a lot too. Stop violence. Stop counting on the other Arab nations. They don't care about them, that has been proven. They really hate Israel because they're the representives of USA's imperialist nature in the Middle east.

I cannot believe that anyone thinks that Isreal is the teerrorist group.

Now, from back a few pages ago, this is a Holy war. The Muslims want Jerusalem, because it is Islam's third holiest site. But it is the most important city for both Judaism and Christianity. So how about a comromise. Let's see if the Muslims will go for this:

They can have Jerusalem, but the Isrealis get Mecca! It's fair isn't it?