At 7/30/06 10:55 PM, Durin413 wrote: I can't believe the lot of you guys. Civilians die in war. It is part of war. ESPECIALLY when enemy soldiers hide amongst civilians. We should be acting more like this in Iraq. 1 American soldier is worth more than the lives of over 1000 iraqi civilians. Thats also what Israel thinks about its own people. Why should they have to expose themselves to more risk. And don't say a peace accord or anything, because thats been tried many times before. Also don't mention the UN, because they have no real power, and they wouldn't do naything productive anyways. Its defunct.

STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP FIGHTING, hypotheticly lets pretend im god for a minute. the world is pretty much like playing the sims to me. what the hell happened over here? this group of people are fighting over a hundred different things and i cant keep track of what the hell theyre saying. if i hadnt promised never to flood the world again id blow ALL these f*****s up.

and furthermore if u want to try to interpret the book of revealations try this spin on it. the beast of the appocalypse is all the random GOD D**N fighting. and the abyss is whats left of the world when this shit goes nuclear. and then u can have all th civilian casualties u could imagine. not that anyone will care since the casualties comes the same root as the word casual. but i wont be seeing the radical isralei "people of god" in the kingdom of heaven.

and furthermore if u want to try to interpret the book of revealations try this spin on it. the beast of the appocalypse is all the random GOD D**N fighting. and the abyss is whats left of the world when this shit goes nuclear. and then u can have all th civilian casualties u could imagine. not that anyone will care since the casualties comes the same root as the word casual. but i wont be seeing the radical isralei "people of god" in the kingdom of heaven.

oops: since the word casualties comes the same root as the word casual. but i wont be seeing the radical isralei "people of god" in the kingdom of heaven

At 7/30/06 10:55 PM, Durin413 wrote: 1 American soldier is worth more than the lives of over 1000 iraqi civilians.

*slaps face*

You dont defeat an insurgency with that kind of attitude. With that attitude you spawn an Empire.

At 7/30/06 10:24 PM, mynamewontfitin wrote: Unavoidable civilian deaths, simple as that.

No, they were very avoidable. They could have been avoided if Israel took the high road instead of declaring war on Lebanon for the actions of irregulars. Ya know, the unconditional ceasefire thing everyone seems to be talking about, even Hezbollah.

The war was very avoidable and you keep sidestepping that by decrying collateral damage. They both escalated. Both. This is another case of a Franz Ferdinand blowing up into full scale, fully mobialized, warfare. Its like, hey, shit, we already got these jets up there, might as well use em.

You think Hezbollah would have survived the international beating and scrutiny they would take if they randomly decided to start lofting tens, let alone hundreds, of rockets a day into Israel for no reason? No. Israel gave them an excuse and empowered them. Foolishly.

At 7/30/06 09:03 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: You don't think bombing methods of transporting war materiel (yes, this IS the real word) is advisable? It's not war, but it is a conflict against a group highly dependent upon outside imports and quick movement.

Apparently my links are always ignored and you keep posting the same crap. Show me one instance where declaring war on a tactic, terrorism, has ever worked. Show me one instance where declaring full scale war on irregulars in the modern era has worked. One. Please.

PS, we are losing control of Afghanistan, if we ever did indeed have control of it.

At 7/30/06 07:38 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Israel has cause to defend itself. 1500+ rockets launched at its cities, what WOULD YOU DO?!

BEFORE OR AFTER THEY ESCALATED THE WAR?!?!?!

I dont remember reports of 100 rockets landing in Israel before they bombed Lebanon. I dont remember Haifa getting nailed before this. Funny, you are justifying the war by the actions that the war brought out.

At 7/30/06 02:56 PM, Judge_Dredd wrote: A weak UN is the cause of these problems!

You dont need a strong UN to defeat anything, you just need nations acting in unison together and not like Europe and the world against America/Israel/GB. We stood up to Iran in unison and North Korea in unison. Which brings me to another point. Iran may be secretly loving this because it took all the heat off them. They are yesterdays news and no one cares so they have more time to build their nukes. Good going, Israel.

*thumbs up*

At 7/30/06 01:27 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote: Anything Israel does will help Hezbollah’s PR.

RONG

At 7/30/06 11:08 AM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Islamofascism.

I hate that word. I hate it with a passion. Whatever idiot came up with it deserves a beating. Since when does radical Islamism have anything to do with fascism? And do we really need to make words up just so we can label them?

I bet it was Rove. That motherfucker is to good at his job. Hell, maybe even Carville helped him make it.

At 7/30/06 12:02 AM, Dragon_Smaug wrote: Yeah...um...taking land in a defensive war is not really stealing. It's actually legal under international law.

Ummm, I am almost positive thats BS. Source it.

At 7/29/06 09:00 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: As long as Israel doesn't plow through like the US did on the way to Baghdad, they'll be able to root out many terror cells.

No, thats not why there is terrorism in Iraq. If you actually think if we went slow we would have solved terrorism, you are sorely mistaken.

And stop claiming Afghanistan is equivalent to Lebanon. Its not. I have asked you to make the case, you havent. So stop echoing the same crap.

This is all about rasists who LOVE to forget that Israel gets attacked by those terrorist sons of bitches every day who:

teach their kids to become suicide bomers

burn U.S. and Israeli flags on the steets

Launch rockets into schools and civilain targets (where were you assholes when the arabs do that?)

celebrate the 9/11 attacks and the murders of thousands civilans

Comit sniper attacks on israeli homes daily

also you forget that terrorist cloak themselfs as civilans post attacks ONE KNOWN tactic is to remove weapons and gear from dead terrorists and claim they were worngly gunned down (violates the Gen. convention,so does most of the listed)But most of the supporters of this tread are the same ones who vote 5 and give rave reviews to nazi/anti semite flash on this site so I can see where most of you get your ideals.

At 7/30/06 10:44 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote:

I wish Israel could find a way to harm less innocents, but I don't see one. I think the ratio has been very good so far, actually.

How has the ratio been good?
Compare civilian casualties to Hezbollah ones.

About that.terrorist don't seem to log all their members like Normal arimes do.ALSO most of these "civilans" are militants who have been stripped of their weapons by their comrades.

KasrkinTrooper is the kind of moron that lives in a cave and reads one sided crap all the time.

Visual is the kind of faggot forms opinions based on propoganda.You are moron who misreads facts and thinks if he reads a book/blog on "why the jews are evil" its gotta be ture.Me I'm a pvt. 1st Class of the U.S. army,awaiting deployment into the mideast or west asia.You are a 13 year old whos waiting for the next episode of "kids next door" to come on.Go play yith your box of legos or something and stay out of politics.

At 7/30/06 07:36 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote: No, I'm not meaning for sterotype type against jews, Sarge's reply was just the perfect little response you would expect from someone forcefed propaganda for thier life.

I know what you meant, I just like using the stereotype...

Oh no I got called a faggot on an internet forum.
If someone is basing his opinions on propaganda it's you. With that shallow thought and piles of crap you keep spewing out I can't be wrong. Plus you're proud of being a soldier pshh..
And when did I ever say I disliked jews?

At 7/31/06 04:01 AM, lapis wrote:

At 7/30/06 10:44 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote: I wish Israel could find a way to harm less innocents, but I don't see one. I think the ratio has been very good so far, actually.

i'l tel you a way they could minimise civilian casulaties, stop bombing towns and villages. They made it quite clear the main objective of the bombing campaign is to make the civilians miserable and hope they vent their anger on Hezbollah. Isn't this just wrong that this is their way of dealing with the situation.

At 7/31/06 03:06 AM, KasrkinTrooper wrote: This is all about rasists who LOVE to forget that Israel gets attacked by those terrorist sons of bitches every day who:

teach their kids to become suicide bomers

burn U.S. and Israeli flags on the steets

Launch rockets into schools and civilain targets (where were you assholes when the arabs do that?)

celebrate the 9/11 attacks and the murders of thousands civilans

Comit sniper attacks on israeli homes daily

also you forget that terrorist cloak themselfs as civilans post attacks ONE KNOWN tactic is to remove weapons and gear from dead terrorists and claim they were worngly gunned down (violates the Gen. convention,so does most of the listed)But most of the supporters of this tread are the same ones who vote 5 and give rave reviews to nazi/anti semite flash on this site so I can see where most of you get your ideals.

I resent being called a nazi/anti-semite, for having a un-biased view on the Israel/Lebanon conflict, but if you're not calling me, or some of the moderate posters on this thread such, forgive me. I don't like those sort of people who are extremely anti-semetic anyway.

I don't support terrorist attacks on Israel, nor do I support terro... I mean I mean "Precision airstrikes" on Lebanon either, If all they seem to be hitting are civilians.

I support the Israeli people, but just like some people in Lebanon, there are some people, who are happy to watch their army march into Lebanon, do whatever it takes to get rid of Hizbollah (destroy civilian blocks, bomb roads etc.), and then go home. Unfortunately Hizbollah (like the insurgency in Iraq) are happy to hide in amongst civilians or fire rockets from mosques (at least the did in Iraq) where they think they are safe. Of course, they run away, when Israel's bombers are ready to bomb the area, and Hizbollah can manipulate the tragedies as another reason to eradicate Israel.

As for a solution, I have no idea. Hezbollah may not stop launching their missiles until Israel releases the Hezbollah prisoner, and Israel won't stop bombing Lebanon until Lebanon releases the Irseali prisoners. Neitherwill happen anytime soon, especially since the Hezbollah prisoner is particularly notorious, and those Israeli prisoners aren't going to last long if Israel keeps bombing Lebanon. Even then, I can imagine Hezbollah will continue to launch rockets at Israel, and Israel will continue to work to get rid of Hezbollah. It's a very sticky situation.

So please, tell me this isn't all one sided, and that Israel are partly to blame for this conflict, and that it isn't all Hezbollah.

"I don't support terrorist attacks on Israel, nor do I support terro... I mean I mean "Precision airstrikes" on Lebanon either" Oh called the Uniformed Army the terrorist.look up the word "terrorist"on wikipedia.

"I support the Israeli people" But not the right to defend them selfs?

If your not one of the anti-semites I was talking about thats O.K. then ignore my post however,You claim its time to
"stand up to Israel" when thats like saying after 9/11 "its time to stand up to America"Remember Israel has weapons that if they were targeting civilans,they would use,
like incendiary bombs,Land mines,and other nastys,Something tells me though if any of Israel's enemys had access these types of weapons,they would not think about the Gen. convention or any type of docrine you throw at Israel.

This is the difference between Israel and Lebanon.

That the Lebanese are Palestinian? I don't get it.

This war's main problem is that it is misguided - the solution does not solve the problem. Like the US in Vietnam Israel will find out that air power is of little use against an irregular and scattered army using guerrilla tactics. It just doesn't work.

Stop the insults people. Anyway….

At 7/31/06 03:14 AM, Visual wrote:

At 7/30/06 10:44 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote:

I wish Israel could find a way to harm less innocents, but I don't see one. I think the ratio has been very good so far, actually.

How has the ratio been good?
Compare civilian casualties to Hezbollah ones.

That just means Israel is bad at hitting Hezbollah.

I don’t mean that ratio, that is a bad ratio.

But compare civilian casualties to rockets launched by Israel.

At 7/31/06 06:24 AM, areyoureadyEddie wrote:

At 7/31/06 04:01 AM, lapis wrote:

At 7/30/06 10:44 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote: I wish Israel could find a way to harm less innocents, but I don't see one. I think the ratio has been very good so far, actually.

i'l tel you a way they could minimise civilian casulaties, stop bombing towns and villages.

How do they stop rockets being fired from towns and villages, then?

They made it quite clear the main objective of the bombing campaign is to make the civilians miserable and hope they vent their anger on Hezbollah. Isn't this just wrong that this is their way of dealing with the situation.

Untrue.

At 7/31/06 09:09 AM, KasrkinTrooper wrote: "I don't support terrorist attacks on Israel, nor do I support terro... I mean I mean "Precision airstrikes" on Lebanon either" Oh called the Uniformed Army the terrorist.look up the word "terrorist"on wikipedia.

"I support the Israeli people" But not the right to defend them selfs?

I support Israel's right to defend itself, but I can't help but think they are in there (in Lebanon) for reasons other than defending itself.

It's so easy to say they - both Lebanon and Israel (as well as all the other countries involved behind the scenes) should take the diplomatic route, living in the west, where the Geneva convention can seriously deter most countries from going to war, which is why I can offer no other alternative as to what Israel should really be doing.

But "standing up" to Israel AND Hizbollah - trying to communicate with them (as opposed to Bush and Blair just talking about how to sort out Syria and Iran, no doubt) is the only plan of action I can see.

At 7/31/06 10:05 AM, edwardhendryuk wrote: It's so easy to say they - both Lebanon and Israel (as well as all the other countries involved behind the scenes) should take the diplomatic route

So, you expect Israel to release 1,500 prisoners in exchange for 2? Because those were the final demands of their enemies last time they tried the diplomacy route.

At 7/31/06 10:10 AM, Wyrlum wrote:

At 7/31/06 10:05 AM, edwardhendryuk wrote: It's so easy to say they - both Lebanon and Israel (as well as all the other countries involved behind the scenes) should take the diplomatic route

So, you expect Israel to release 1,500 prisoners in exchange for 2? Because those were the final demands of their enemies last time they tried the diplomacy route.

you as good as misquoted me, there. I said (in effect) It's easy to take the diplomatic route BUT I live in the west, and diplomacy doesn't always work. But we can still try...

As for the prisoners, I fear that even if Israel caved in (not saying they should) and released every prisoner, and Hezbollah released their prisoners, they'd still be at odds with each other.

And when you say "anti-semites", you do know that arabs are semite too, right?

At 7/31/06 10:29 AM, Visual wrote: And when you say "anti-semites", you do know that arabs are semite too, right?

The expression anti-semite means hate towards Jews, that is in spite of the fact that arabs are semites too.

This goes to those saying that Israel cannot win the war.

Israel says hits 2/3 of Hizbollah's heavy missiles

So, they are making progess. Now just to destroy the other 1/3

At 7/31/06 03:33 AM, KasrkinTrooper wrote: Me I'm a pvt. 1st Class of the U.S. army,awaiting deployment into the mideast or west asia.You are a 13 year old whos waiting for the next episode of "kids next door" to come on.Go play yith your box of legos or something and stay out of politics.

Always have respected the men in uniform. I'm eventually joining the marines so I repect that. However, I disagree with your opinion big time.

Israel has been targetting innocent civilians in an attempt to root out hezbollah. Sure, good idea, but you can't just go around killing innocent people like that. Those are my friends and family.

At 7/31/06 11:32 AM, drDAK wrote:

At 7/31/06 03:33 AM, KasrkinTrooper wrote: Me I'm a pvt. 1st Class of the U.S. army,awaiting deployment into the mideast or west asia.You are a 13 year old whos waiting for the next episode of "kids next door" to come on.Go play yith your box of legos or something and stay out of politics.

Always have respected the men in uniform. I'm eventually joining the marines so I repect that. However, I disagree with your opinion big time.

Israel has been targetting innocent civilians in an attempt to root out hezbollah. Sure, good idea, but you can't just go around killing innocent people like that. Those are my friends and family.

And? I have friends and family in Northern Israel. How do you think they feel? Israel is not targetting innocent civilians, they are targetting the source of the rockets. Hezbollah aren't even targetting. They're just firing away hoping to kill as many people as possible.
Anyway, I feel like there's no diplomatic way to end this. It just gets too complicated. The only way this is going to end, is to let it unfold naturally. Although if they do manage to sort all this out diplomatically, in a fair way, that would be a great achievement.

Why the hell is the US suporting these factions in the middle east? Isreal and the rest of the region are going to keep trying to eradicate each other till the fuvking holyland is theirs. They all kill civilians and dont care about it and they are all on this brainwashed little quest to to win this religous territory war. This conflict is not in are interest at all! If we never suported these thugs in the middle east maybe there wouldnt have been a 9/11.

Want to win the war on terror? Get the fuck out of the middle east and enjoy the fireworks these idiots will creat.

At 7/31/06 10:38 AM, Lidov wrote:

The expression anti-semite means hate towards Jews, that is in spite of the fact that arabs are semites too.

Now see, that's just ridiculous.

Why the hell is the US suporting these factions in the middle east? Isreal and the rest of the region are going to keep trying to eradicate each other till the fuvking holyland is theirs. They all kill civilians and dont care about it and they are all on this brainwashed little quest to to win this religous territory war. This conflict is not in are interest at all! If we never suported these thugs in the middle east maybe there wouldnt have been a 9/11.

Want to win the war on terror? Get the fuck out of the middle east and enjoy the fireworks these idiots will creat.

I'd love to see the U.S let go of Israel's hand. Being the only country that's supporting them right now.
And the only fireworks we'll be seeing is Iran lighting Israel up.

At 7/31/06 12:19 PM, Messyoup wrote: Why the hell is the US suporting these factions in the middle east? Isreal and the rest of the region are going to keep trying to eradicate each other till the fuvking holyland is theirs. They all kill civilians and dont care about it and they are all on this brainwashed little quest to to win this religous territory war. This conflict is not in are interest at all! If we never suported these thugs in the middle east maybe there wouldnt have been a 9/11.

No, Israel is not trying to eradicate anyone. Everyone else (except maybe Egypt) is hoping to eradicate Israel.

Everyone cares about killings civilians; Israel tries not to while the terrorists try to.

At 7/31/06 12:48 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote:

No, Israel is not trying to eradicate anyone. Everyone else (except maybe Egypt) is hoping to eradicate Israel.

Everyone cares about killings civilians; Israel tries not to while the terrorists try to.

even though Israel kill far more innocent people

At 7/31/06 12:47 PM, Visual wrote: Now see, that's just ridiculous.

Rediculous as it is, it is the truth, anti semitism is the hate towards Jews, not the Arabs.
k?