At 7/16/06 07:48 AM, TwO_FaCeD_PaRaNoID wrote: I'm not saying that i'm against Israel at the moment, i think their doing the right think. But it isn't compareble to the Afganistan war. THat is just bull, and that was what i'm trying to say in my last post!

I'm not comparing it to the afghan war.

At 7/16/06 07:52 AM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 07:48 AM, TwO_FaCeD_PaRaNoID wrote: I'm not saying that i'm against Israel at the moment, i think their doing the right think. But it isn't compareble to the Afganistan war. THat is just bull, and that was what i'm trying to say in my last post!

I'm not comparing it to the afghan war.

I am...-though i recognize the prominent differences-i still find there are overwhelming similarities..

At 7/16/06 07:54 AM, 4aces wrote:

At 7/16/06 07:52 AM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 07:48 AM, TwO_FaCeD_PaRaNoID wrote: I'm not saying that i'm against Israel at the moment, i think their doing the right think. But it isn't compareble to the Afganistan war. THat is just bull, and that was what i'm trying to say in my last post!

I'm not comparing it to the afghan war.

I am...-though i recognize the prominent differences-i still find there are overwhelming similarities..

i disagree with that. Because the reasons are totally different. Al-quaida attacked American soil and killed thousands of people, while Hezbollah captured some soldiers.
Killing civies is more evil then capturing soldiers!

At 7/16/06 08:05 AM, TwO_FaCeD_PaRaNoID wrote:

At 7/16/06 07:54 AM, 4aces wrote:

At 7/16/06 07:52 AM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 07:48 AM, TwO_FaCeD_PaRaNoID wrote: I'm not saying that i'm against Israel at the moment, i think their doing the right think. But it isn't compareble to the Afganistan war. THat is just bull, and that was what i'm trying to say in my last post!

I'm not comparing it to the afghan war.

I am...-though i recognize the prominent differences-i still find there are overwhelming similarities..

i disagree with that. Because the reasons are totally different. Al-quaida attacked American soil and killed thousands of people, while Hezbollah captured some soldiers.
Killing civies is more evil then capturing soldiers!

not in israel-where :
SOLDIERS=CIVILIANS due to a mandatory army service(this whole place is like a giant military academy..).... and they also killed 8 soldiers....-the reason was lesser than 9/11 but so are the actions(no ground assault dor example..the attack focusing mainly on south lebanon..etc)

I'll have to agree with 4aces.

The military in Israel is totally different. Even when you are not at the front you are in the military. It's like half of the population are soldiers, is that an excuse to bomb half of the entire population?

At 7/16/06 08:12 AM, 4aces wrote: not in israel-where :
SOLDIERS=CIVILIANS due to a mandatory army service(this whole place is like a giant military academy..).... and they also killed 8 soldiers....-the reason was lesser than 9/11 but so are the actions(no ground assault dor example..the attack focusing mainly on south lebanon..etc)

You're right! How could i forget that every single person is recruited.
Is it true that when you're 18 you will have to go to the national reserve?

At 7/16/06 08:15 AM, TwO_FaCeD_PaRaNoID wrote: You're right! How could i forget that every single person is recruited.
Is it true that when you're 18 you will have to go to the national reserve?

Yes. No exceptions made, unless you are disabled, but even thye they can fidn a job for you.

There are certain laws tough, when you are the only child in a family you only get send to the front if you want to. Since they don't want people to lose all of their kids.

At 7/16/06 08:15 AM, TwO_FaCeD_PaRaNoID wrote:

At 7/16/06 08:12 AM, 4aces wrote: not in israel-where :
SOLDIERS=CIVILIANS due to a mandatory army service(this whole place is like a giant military academy..).... and they also killed 8 soldiers....-the reason was lesser than 9/11 but so are the actions(no ground assault dor example..the attack focusing mainly on south lebanon..etc)

You're right! How could i forget that every single person is recruited.
Is it true that when you're 18 you will have to go to the national reserve?

i AM 18 and am a part of the israeli armed forces..(...i'm about to get emm re-recruited in several months...-for i applied to be in the academical reserve(paid academical education by the army...)-i repented my decision(i don't like permanency..)
and there were some bureaucracy involved..mmm)

so in conclusion YES

At 7/16/06 08:27 AM, 4aces wrote:

i AM 18 and am a part of the israeli armed forces

sorry, i couldn't open up your profile,

But i have the idea that most of your taxe money goes to the Armed forces am i correct?

What, oh yeah so your not biased at all....

At 7/16/06 08:42 AM, gooze_bump wrote: What, oh yeah so your not biased at all....

being part of it makes me see it's ridicule and stupidity and uneccessery bureaucracy.....-i am probabely more objective when it comes to it than most people...- i know what it's like from first hand.....
and from first hand-IT'S NOT EVIL(only very annoying at times....)

At 7/16/06 08:42 AM, gooze_bump wrote: What, oh yeah so your not biased at all....

Get me a working link to your source.

And no he isn't biased. Fuck WHY THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE JUDGE SOMETHING YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.

At 7/16/06 09:00 AM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 08:42 AM, gooze_bump wrote: What, oh yeah so your not biased at all....

Get me a working link to your source.

And no he isn't biased. Fuck WHY THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE JUDGE SOMETHING YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.

And your in the Netherlands, hwo much more can you know. At least im in America, Israels husband.

At 7/16/06 09:02 AM, gooze_bump wrote:

At 7/16/06 09:00 AM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 08:42 AM, gooze_bump wrote: What, oh yeah so your not biased at all....

Get me a working link to your source.

And no he isn't biased. Fuck WHY THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE JUDGE SOMETHING YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.

And your in the Netherlands, hwo much more can you know. At least im in America, Israels husband.

I go to israel every year. I stay there a month. I speak hebrew. I have finished 6 years of a jewish school where I have been taught constantly about Israel.

I see myself more as an Israeli than as a Dutch person, simply because when I go there I feel home. I've seen all of it from the inside out.

I'm it's child. Not it's husband.

At 7/15/06 11:06 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote: The problem is that the terrorists are ALWAYS among civilians. If Israel never attacked a terrorist when civilians would get hurt, very few terrorists would be attacked, and the terrorists would believe that by moving among civilians they would be safe.

If you know where these terorists are hiding what's stopping you from using ground troops? Surely it would be cheaper for you to use your ground troops, you'd be able to get to the terrorists with minmised civilian casualites also. The Lebanese military or Hellzbolha aren't really going to be much of a match for you now are they? So precise stirkes using ground troops would work quite well, you'd send a message to the terrorists and minimise civilian casualties at the same time

Win, Win situation as I see it

Well, that’s why children are not targeted and everything is done to avoid killing them. That is why they are selective about strikes, and try to minimize deaths. The life of one terrorist for 4 or 5 innocents is a better trade than the life of that terrorist for 20 innocents (as would be the case if he went on to suicide bomb).

“Not trying their hardest.” What more could they have done? How is the situation so different that diplomacy will work now? I wouldn’t mention how it didn’t work in the past if I thought the situation now was any more conducive.

The situation is different now because both iran and Syria will now be extra cautious in supporting Hellzbollah or whoever as they both have the beady eyes of theworld watching their every move. If those two nations aren't as prominent in funding hamas or other groups then you may end up with them trying to work with you as they would have no other alternative. Iran was alreayd under the spotlight for its Nuclear programme and now people are wtaching syria closer cause they are behind Hellzbollah.

Co-operating with Palestine and Lebanon in what way? I agree that the best way to deal with terrorists is to remove their hatred. But what do you do in the mean time, when you can’t get at their hatred and they are attacking you?

You defend yourself, but in a way that is proportionate to the force used agaisnt you. You get bombed? Stirke at precise targets that are known training camps or supply storage locations for them. That way you damage the terrorists and minimise the damage to civilians and nfrastrucutre which people need.

You understand that that terrorist would go on to attempt to murder as many civilians, including children, as possible, right?

I do understand that, and it is for that reassn why I find what Israel is doing just plain wrong. I detest Terrorists for doing it, so I'm not gonna turn the other cheek just because Israel is doing it and theya re supposed to be the good guys. I expect better of ISrael, that's one of the reaosns I'm so appalled at their actions.

There is no target that is exclusively terrorist. No terrorist doesn’t hide behind civilians, no terrorist can be killed on their own land without at least minimal civilian deaths. Yet, if the terrorists are not attacked, they will continue to attack Israel.

I accept that civilians will end up dead, its war, it happens. What I don't accept is that the way Israel is conducting its attacks is the bets way to minimise the civilian deaths. As far as I can see using ground troops would minimise the civilian losses furhter. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me and I'll retract my comment and may veyr well change my opinion.

By Palestine I assume you mean the Palestinians (Palestine includes Israel).

Yeah, I do mean the Palestinians. If I mean Israel then I'll say Israel. I forgot that Palestine means Holy Land and that Israle is include din that :-\ Sorry for not being clear.

You just framed the best reason not to negotiate with terrorists. You make a trade, and they will kidnap more. What do the Palestinians want? I assure you that all of their desires, aside from the destruction of Israel, can be achieved without terrorism.

I'm not suggesting you negotiate with terrorists. I'm suggesting you do stuff to get rid of the terrorists whislt keeping civilian casualties to the bare minimum, and I don't thinks that's happening at the moment on both accounts. What Israel is doing is not going to get rid of the terrorists and I'm not convinced that they are using the bets tactics to keep civiliain casualties to a minimum.

At 7/16/06 09:11 AM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 09:02 AM, gooze_bump wrote:

At 7/16/06 09:00 AM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 08:42 AM, gooze_bump wrote: What, oh yeah so your not biased at all....

Get me a working link to your source.

And no he isn't biased. Fuck WHY THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE JUDGE SOMETHING YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.

And your in the Netherlands, hwo much more can you know. At least im in America, Israels husband.

I go to israel every year. I stay there a month. I speak hebrew. I have finished 6 years of a jewish school where I have been taught constantly about Israel.

I see myself more as an Israeli than as a Dutch person, simply because when I go there I feel home. I've seen all of it from the inside out.

I'm it's child. Not it's husband.

So your biased...I cant wait to tell the Dutch government that their citizen feels a btter connection to Israel than his homeland. Why don't you jsut move there?

to Tri-Nitro-Toluene =

i understand your liking towards a ground assault-what you don't is that israel is terrified of it-the last time israel invaded lebanon(due to fatah doing (they used to be where hizbullah is today) exactly what hizbullah is now..)it got sucked into a 20 year long useless warfare.......(which completely messed up the menatal health of one of the best PM's israel ever had-menahem begin..)-PM olmert cares graetly for his seat in the pm's office and would like to keep it...and by occupying lebanon again-he isn't going to manage that.....

besides the idf KNOWS nasralla prepared his troops for ground warfare-expecting israel to trigger the trap....israel will not do it..... -they will continue to leave lebanon free of israeli occuaption.....

ohj yeah leave it free of occupation, just leave it all in rubbles, thats alot better. At elast thisway Israel won't have to pay for all the civilian sturcutres and ifnrastructure they dimolish right.

At 7/16/06 10:15 AM, gooze_bump wrote: ohj yeah leave it free of occupation, just leave it all in rubbles, thats alot better. At elast thisway Israel won't have to pay for all the civilian sturcutres and ifnrastructure they dimolish right.

mmmm.....yes

At 7/16/06 09:43 AM, gooze_bump wrote:

:: So your biased...I cant wait to tell the Dutch government that their citizen feels a btter connection to Israel than his homeland. Why don't you jsut move there?

Pfff, do you really think they even bother to look you in the eye?

At 7/16/06 09:43 AM, gooze_bump wrote: So your biased...I cant wait to tell the Dutch government that their citizen feels a btter connection to Israel than his homeland. Why don't you jsut move there?

What kind of Bullshit is that. I analyze western world information.

Also I don't move there because the education I get here is 10x better. Apart from that my Hebrew isn't that good.

At 7/16/06 12:06 PM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 09:43 AM, gooze_bump wrote: So your biased...I cant wait to tell the Dutch government that their citizen feels a btter connection to Israel than his homeland. Why don't you jsut move there?

What kind of Bullshit is that. I analyze western world information.

Also I don't move there because the education I get here is 10x better. Apart from that my Hebrew isn't that good.

But because you visit Isreal once a year you are somehow the Forums leading expert on it's right to murder people.

*slow clap*

At 7/16/06 12:13 PM, Turandot wrote: But because you visit Isreal once a year you are somehow the Forums leading expert on it's right to murder people.

*slow clap*

Well, any person with even the most basic undestanding of the world can be the forum leading expert of what you call "Israel's right to murder people". You don't even have to visit Israel once to understand that, it is that simple ^_^

At 7/16/06 12:13 PM, Turandot wrote:

At 7/16/06 12:06 PM, -Akula- wrote:

At 7/16/06 09:43 AM, gooze_bump wrote: So your biased...I cant wait to tell the Dutch government that their citizen feels a btter connection to Israel than his homeland. Why don't you jsut move there?

What kind of Bullshit is that. I analyze western world information.

Also I don't move there because the education I get here is 10x better. Apart from that my Hebrew isn't that good.

But because you visit Isreal once a year you are somehow the Forums leading expert on it's right to murder people.

Yes and because I follow it's event pretty much every day and like I said. 6 years of day to day education.

Also you seem to be an expert yourself.

At 7/16/06 12:06 PM, -Akula- wrote:

Also I don't move there because the education I get here is 10x better. Apart from that my Hebrew isn't that good.

why is the education you get in holland 10 times better?....

At 7/16/06 07:25 AM, -Akula- wrote: Condoleeza Rice now fully supports the Israeli fire and says not to stop now.

I cry bullshit. Where is the source.

At 7/16/06 08:14 AM, -Akula- wrote: I'll have to agree with 4aces.

No, that is foolish. The people in the military are the people in uniform.

At 7/16/06 07:17 AM, 4aces wrote: israel is trying to fight hizbullah and by doing so is also fighting lebanon(the way us fought the whole of afgahnistan and the taliban

"But don't confuse Hezbollah with the Siniora government, which is not responsible for the Hezbollah's actions," said a senior U.S. official who asked not to be named because he's not been authorized to speak publicly.
No, you fool. Israels actions are fuckin everyone over.

"We are saying, 'Think before you leap. Don't overdo it. Don't respond with emotions and end up bringing the fall of this government and strengthening Hezbollah and bring about another pro-Syrian government,' " said a senior U.S. government official, speaking privately due to the sensitivity of the ongoing diplomacy.

And you are stabbing yourselves in the foot by acting like fools. Allies dont fuck their biggest benefactor over like this and totally disregard what the USA is saying. Acting like a bunch of children. . .

At 7/16/06 06:44 AM, 4aces wrote: -it is the equivalant of the us-afgahn war.....

NO ITS NOT. The international community was involved with our invasion. We offered the Taliban the ability to handle the terrorists over. They didnt. We invaded with a multinational force. No similarities at all.

And to highlight just how stupid you are all being now, when did the Israeli deaths from Lebanon start in ernest? Maybe when your soldiers stepped foot in Lebanon to attack Hezbollah? So you are justifying your invasion with the escalation Israel had a major hand in? No, thats wrong.

At 7/16/06 05:49 AM, Ghost_Phantom wrote: And if you ask me, We should destroy Lebanon and leave no trace of it now.

LEBANON IS NOT AT WAR WITH YOU. HEZBOLLAH IS. Why are you making everyone suffer and likely creating more POWER for Hezbollah by alienating much of Lebanons people by bombing the fuck out of them? Why are you in support for making an entire people suffer because of maybe 3000 irregulars that DO want to fight you, with no backing or support from their government?

When was the last time an Israeli civilian strapped on a bomb to himself and went to a Lebanon mall to blow himself up?

I dont know, does Lebanon even have malls?

At 7/16/06 05:23 AM, -Akula- wrote: There are NO peacufull civilians in Iran, that nation is so fucked up that you can kill anyone.

You are such a fool. Such a fool.

I pity the day your type of thinkers get into the Knesset. Not only will it spell the end of Israel, it will likely spell the end to all humanity when a nuclear winter settles over us all.

Congratulations on losing all respect I might have had for you.

At 7/16/06 05:18 AM, 4aces wrote: how?????-i'm currently under hizbullah attack......-
let beirut burn for all i care....

Hezbollah is not LEBANON. Jesus Christ, Israel, I hope you realize the Lebanese would cooperate with you if you would stop blowing everything up because of a few thousand irregulars that are launching missles at you.

Lebanons crime does not fit its punishment. Its fuckin sick you would say that about people.

At 7/16/06 03:27 AM, -Akula- wrote: If they would just randomly blow up stuff with no purpose, the UN would had forced them to stop already. That alone means that their actions are justified if the world isn't getting involved.

No, the UN wouldnt get involved. They are a toothless organization that would take MONTHS to respond if they were. And they are even more toothless when the USA vetoes everything regarding Israel. It already happened this week. Cheeck up on John Bolton and his activities.

If you want to stop the rockets, you have to stop the supllies.

You are justifying bombing Lebanese infrastrucure to stop missle attacks that have killed what, maybe 10 people in Israel in the past year, to stop them getting supplies? Fuckin dumbass.

The only way that will happen is if you can physically patrol every mile of Lebaonons border with Syria. They dont ship that shit through a fuckin airliner. Not through a ship when they can drive that shit straight from the source.

At 7/15/06 11:08 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote: That is why their standard of living is higher than the rest of the Arab world. Unfortunately, terrorists still developed.

I asked you to prove that before and you still havent.

At 7/16/06 01:13 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: Hezbollah is not LEBANON. Jesus Christ, Israel, I hope you realize the Lebanese would cooperate with you if you would stop blowing everything up because of a few thousand irregulars that are launching missles at you.

4aces is not ISRAEL. Jesus christ, FAB0L0US, I hope you realise that the Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese parliament which is given help by some (not all) of it's citizens. Also, Lebanon has never even tried to get the Hezbollah out of it's territory, in spite of the pressure. They currently cannot co-oporate with us in a way which would stop the Hezbollah from bombing us, so there is no point of stopping. Until they show serious will to help us change the current situation and bring actual tools in which they can do it, we will stop. However, we won't stop blowing up Hezbollah goals.

Godamn post button!!!!

At 7/16/06 01:13 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: You are such a fool. Such a fool.

I don't know about him being fool, but I am sure that there are peaceful citizens in Iran, even apart from the Jews there. My father has met an Iranian in Europ and he said that he prefers the zionists rather than his government, so there is at least one.

I pity the day your type of thinkers get into the Knesset. Not only will it spell the end of Israel, it will likely spell the end to all humanity when a nuclear winter settles over us all.

Firstly, this type of thinking will probably never get to the knesset in a way which will allow laws to pass. Secondly, I don't think that if this type of thinking will reach the knesset we will press on the red button so quickly.

Congratulations on losing all respect I might have had for you.

Are you talking about Akula or about israel or... what?

At 7/16/06 01:12 PM, 4aces wrote:

At 7/16/06 12:06 PM, -Akula- wrote:

Also I don't move there because the education I get here is 10x better. Apart from that my Hebrew isn't that good.

why is the education you get in holland 10 times better?....

Because everyone says so. Apart from Ben Gurion University, which is tha bomb.

When I say what we learn here, people don't believe me.

I mean for a kid to know 8 languages when he is 12, is kinda special for some people.

At 7/16/06 01:13 PM, FAB0L0US wrote:

At 7/16/06 07:25 AM, -Akula- wrote: Condoleeza Rice now fully supports the Israeli fire and says not to stop now.

http://www.abcnews.g..d=2198066&page=1

I also have one from cursorinfo but I can't find the page right now