At 7/15/06 04:33 PM, gooze_bump wrote: NOAM CHOMSKY:
Gaza, itself, the latest phase, began on June 24. It was when Israel abducted two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother.

I haven't heard of that, I haven't read it anywhere, please supply me with a source confirming that it really happened? I find it somewhat odd that you know they were kidnapped, but don't know what their names are because the people who notice people are gone normally know these people...
:The next day, something happened, which we do know about, a lot. Militants in Gaza, probably Islamic Jihad, abducted an Israeli soldier across the border. That's Corporal Gilad Shalit. And that's well known; first abduction is not.
That was done by Hamas, they admitted that, it's well known.

Source Here

That link didn't work for me, can you post that again?

Cool now the thread is about me.

Anyways I got a major headache (litteraly) and I will go to bed earlier, I will only be able to fully reply tomorrow, but I will reply nontheless.

I would like to say something short about that civilian convoy.

When this whole thing started, the army told the civilians to leave. Now if there is a big van driving it may be hostile.

If the army says to you 'leave now, or be treated as hostile' you leave no matter what, if you care about your family. A van could carry weapons, bombs etc. Now ofcourse you will tell me that this is utter bullshit and that it is no reason to bomb them and that is proves that Israel targets civilians. They were warned, they knew it could and likely would happen. They took the risk upon themselves by not leaving earlier and this is what happened.

What I will say tough, that it wasn't the smartest of moves, but again, personally safety is priority number 1. Don't think that an apache doesn't crash when it gets hits by missiles or by bullets for that matter.

I will talk about the wall tomorrow.

I wish you a good night and may god protect you all, even those who see me as an enemy, I don't want anyone to die.

At 7/15/06 04:33 PM, gooze_bump wrote: Source Here

I get a very fucked up page with all broken links and no working images.

Also is all of that happened don't you think at least SOMEONE would had reported it. You seem to be the only one to know.

Cahenn, don't waste your time debating with anyone who posts Chomsky, a LINGUIST, as a legitimate source.

Noam Chomsky is a pompous, self impressed tool bag. He says some smart things but he is more of an ass than anything else.

At 7/15/06 04:30 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: 1. There is no "Lebanonese." They're "Lebanese." And, by the way, the LEBANESE hate the Iranians and Syrians. The Iranians and Syrians support Hizbullah. The Lebanese, in general, tend to dislike Hizbullah.

So why exactly do you support an invasion of Lebanon, even if this is true?

At 7/15/06 04:19 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: It's not factually accurate. That's the problem. You may not be a racist, but you're ignoring historical and statistical fact.

And you have to so I would be splitting hairs.

At 7/15/06 02:58 PM, Cahenn wrote: In the year 2000, Ehud Barak, PM then offered the Palastinains half of Jerusalem, the entire west bank and the gaza strip, they said no... that still makes me ponder.

Okay, the last third part of the book, as Dr. Finkelstein says, there is the diplomat, and this same diplomat still behaves in a way as a historian when he says in this book that Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well. This is something I put in the book. But Taba is the problem. The Clinton parameters are the problem. . .
Shlomo Ben-Ami, former Israeli Foreign Minister and chief negotiator at Camp David.

And this I found interesting.

Jerusalem is an interesting case, because if you read Dr. Ben-Ami or the standard mainstream accounts in the United States, everyone talks about the huge concessions that Barak was willing to make on Jerusalem. But under international law Israel has not one atom of sovereignty over any of Jerusalem.
Norman Finkelstein

Good debate.

At 7/15/06 04:27 PM, gooze_bump wrote: www.atimes.com/atime..e_East/HG15Ak02.html

Analyse your source man. Those are not the reporters words, those are the words of I qoute 'jihadi Muslims' who I quote 'believe that escalation is the only solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. '.

They will provocate the situation under any condition, these people are terrorists, whether you are pro-arab or pro-israel, these people are terrorists.

At 7/15/06 04:37 PM, Cahenn wrote:

At 7/15/06 04:33 PM, gooze_bump wrote: NOAM CHOMSKY:
Gaza, itself, the latest phase, began on June 24. It was when Israel abducted two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother.

I haven't heard of that, I haven't read it anywhere, please supply me with a source confirming that it really happened? I find it somewhat odd that you know they were kidnapped, but don't know what their names are because the people who notice people are gone normally know these people...

The next day, something happened, which we do know about, a lot. Militants in Gaza, probably Islamic Jihad, abducted an Israeli soldier across the border. That's Corporal Gilad Shalit. And that's well known; first abduction is not.

That was done by Hamas, they admitted that, it's well known.

Source Here

That link didn't work for me, can you post that again?

Thats the point Caheem. How u enver know the names and shit of people kindapped killed by Israel. Bt as soon as 1 israeli is taken back in retaliation to all the agression, you see their names and lfie story splashed around the media. Sorry imt rying to get the link to work again but apprantly its down or something? anyway it still doe'snt change the fact that its ture. Like you siad, u dont know any names of any civilians or people tooken by israel yet im sure u do know the names of IDF soldiers captured.

At 7/15/06 04:41 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: Noam Chomsky is a pompous, self impressed tool bag. He says some smart things but he is more of an ass than anything else.

At 7/15/06 04:30 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: 1. There is no "Lebanonese." They're "Lebanese." And, by the way, the LEBANESE hate the Iranians and Syrians. The Iranians and Syrians support Hizbullah. The Lebanese, in general, tend to dislike Hizbullah.

So why exactly do you support an invasion of Lebanon, even if this is true?

Because we have to drive out the Syrian and Iranian supported terror groups. The Syrians and Iranians understand force. They don't want peace. They want ISRAEL TO BE ELIMINATED.

And you have to so I would be splitting hairs.

Ah, ok, fine, that may be true, but I'm talking about THIS issue.

Norman Finkelstein

Self hating Jew.

Good debate.

As long as you don't listen to Norman "Hitler II" Finkelgobbels.

oh and here is soemthing interesting for you guys to watch. (Warning very graphic)

http://www.informati..nfo/article13991.htm

you guys know lebanon is prety much GONE ,everything is bombed!!
My mom just called us, from beirut, she told us EVERYTHING is bombed nothing is relly left , the isralie army just bombed a bus full of kids going to the UN center. She is supose to be coming back , with the canadien embasy, they have sent a boat or something for canadien citizens. But how is that going to work they blew up ALL PORTS, airports roads ect. if your somewhere right now in lebanon your STUCK, you cant go anywhere.

At 7/15/06 04:45 PM, gooze_bump wrote: Thats the point Caheem. How u enver know the names and shit of people kindapped killed by Israel.

If my country is kidnapping people silently I'd like to know, please back your statements up with sources.

Sorry im trying to get the link to work again but apprantly its down or something? anyway it still doe'snt change the fact that its ture.

I 'll decide that for myself, that's like me saying there's evidence that the palastinians are in charge of all car crashes in north america, read about it in my unbiased source http://www.bullshits..nt.believe.this.html
... seriously, if you expect me to believe something I never heard of, at least quote a reliable source. I googled it up and got no results.

Like you siad, u dont know any names of any civilians or people tooken by israel yet im sure u do know the names of IDF soldiers captured.

Nope, I know that Gilad Shalit is one, I don't know the other two, names don't mean that much anyway, people are people...

Gooze stop looping around the issue and give me a link to your source that actually works.

In other news, how bombings help.

I am translating this from russian.

http://www.cursorinf..im/2006/07/15/21-04/

------------------------------------------
------------------
Date: 15.07 Time: 21.03 (GMT +2)

Prime Minister of Lebanon calls Israel for Peace treaty.

The Prime Minister of Lebanon, Fuad Senyera (sp?) called upon Israel for peace, after what he promised to re-take control over the south of his country. He also strongly critisized Hesbollah and has asked the UN to help him to liquidate the terrorist organisation.
------------------------------------------
-------------------
Know what this means? This means that he doesn't want to tell that he has/had ties with Hesollah, and I can understand that. But this does mean that he is taking responsibility for his actions. If this comes threw then this should be over soon.

At 7/15/06 04:47 PM, gooze_bump wrote: http://www.informati..nfo/article13991.htm

We know war is horrible. We can go ahead and exchange horror links all day.

http://w3.castup.net/mfa/terror.htm

try viewing the material under 'Bus no. 19 suicide attack'

At 7/15/06 04:52 PM, Cahenn wrote: Nope, I know that Gilad Shalit is one, I don't know the other two, names don't mean that much anyway, people are people...

I know the names of the other two.. ehud goldwasser and eldad regev...

gooz_bump...-your "sources scare the hell out of me.......my firewall keeps detecting viruses in them....i would suggest relying on more...emmm reliable sources...

also...RULE NUMBER ONE!

ONLY TRUST THE REPORTS OF FREE DEMOCRATIC NATIONS(uk,us,french...-even israel is good since there is no connection between the press and the government-they report exactly the same things as american news crews..)

UAE AND EGYPTIAN(for example) REPORTS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS COMPLETELY BIASED...-THEY ARE RAN BY THE GOVERNMENT....

At 7/15/06 04:52 PM, shakiko wrote: you guys know lebanon is prety much GONE ,everything is bombed!!
My mom just called us, from beirut, she told us EVERYTHING is bombed nothing is relly left , the isralie army just bombed a bus full of kids going to the UN center. She is supose to be coming back , with the canadien embasy, they have sent a boat or something for canadien citizens. But how is that going to work they blew up ALL PORTS, airports roads ect. if your somewhere right now in lebanon your STUCK, you cant go anywhere.

I went trough your post history and saw your last post on how you say that without Hesbollah your country would had been taking in by Israel. Well here's a news flash, no one wants your fucking country. You are being manipulated by those jack asses and this is the result. Because of your 'pseudo friends' Iran and Syria you're only getting yourself more headaches. So don't give me that crap that Hesbollah is defending you, it's ruining your life and that of your country men. If there was no Hesbollah, Israel would had never touched your country in the first place.

If all lebanese citizens understood that we wouldn't have this crap.

At 7/15/06 04:47 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: As long as you don't listen to Norman "Hitler II" Finkelgobbels.

If you disagree with what he said so much find the factual innacuracies. They seemed to be pretty civil and agreeing with eachother for the most part.

sorry iha ve to post my respone from the Americans in Lebadnon thread, here

oh yah well America does not have Free healthcare..duh...I rather ahve free healare and pay higher taxes, but not to get off point, I stil dotns ee why the aAmreican govt. can get their own citizen s out of a war Zone. Its not like the amreicans knew that Israel was goign to bomb the hell out of Lebadnon when they went there, Your argument is false...

Damn straight, lets show them whos boss

At 7/15/06 04:52 PM, shakiko wrote: you guys know lebanon is prety much GONE ,everything is bombed!!
My mom just called us, from beirut, she told us EVERYTHING is bombed nothing is relly left , the isralie army just bombed a bus full of kids going to the UN center. She is supose to be coming back , with the canadien embasy, they have sent a boat or something for canadien citizens. But how is that going to work they blew up ALL PORTS, airports roads ect. if your somewhere right now in lebanon your STUCK, you cant go anywhere.

hizbullah are fun aren't they?...........and beirut is pretty much completely bombed not the ENTIRE COUNTRY.........

i'm sorry to say this -but hizbullah really ******* you up(yeah there are no language laws ..i've been in the tyranny of gamespot too much..)

i really this would be a good time letting seniora fulfill his promises(temporary cease fire?)....-so we can end this all useless war as soon as possible.....

it seems like isreal WAS planing a war against lebanon before the two soldiers where kidnaped on LEBANISE SOIL because isreal invaded and bombed everything in 4 FREKEN DAYS. they have lost alot more then two soldiers, the war was NEVER about those two soldiers, there just using it as an exuse god damit..

At 7/15/06 05:34 PM, shakiko wrote: it seems like isreal WAS planing a war against lebanon before the two soldiers where kidnaped on LEBANISE SOIL because isreal invaded and bombed everything in 4 FREKEN DAYS. they have lost alot more then two soldiers, the war was NEVER about those two soldiers, there just using it as an exuse god damit..

*sigh*......proof???????-israel stays out of lebanon for 5 years...and yet suddenly decide to return?-
do you know that any PM who decides to return to lebanon-will demolish his political career.......-no relection for war mongerers....

At 7/15/06 05:41 PM, 4aces wrote: *sigh*......proof???????-israel stays out of lebanon for 5 years...and yet suddenly decide to return?-
do you know that any PM who decides to return to lebanon-will demolish his political career.......-no relection for war mongerers....

to add to that.

This is the first time that left wing parties support the actions of Israel. Does that ring a bell?

At 7/15/06 05:46 PM, -Akula- wrote:

This is the first time that left wing parties support the actions of Israel. Does that ring a bell?

*gasp*
TEH SCANDELZ!!!!!!!! ZOMG AT TEH MIND MANIPULATION!!!!!111111111

At 7/15/06 05:50 PM, 4aces wrote:

At 7/15/06 05:46 PM, -Akula- wrote:

This is the first time that left wing parties support the actions of Israel. Does that ring a bell?

*gasp*
TEH SCANDELZ!!!!!!!! ZOMG AT TEH MIND MANIPULATION!!!!!111111111

of course. Jews are mind manipulating jews now.

*I FOCUZZZ MY LAZ0RZ ON J00 BRAINZ!*

Shakiko you're as dumb as your country men if you believe Hesbollah.

i dont consider hezballah a terrorist group, i think that the USA and isreal call them that is because hezballah its what kepping them from geting rid of lebanon.

and ALL of lebanon is bombed , there is no roads left , its not just beirut , you would know that if you have some kind of arab news network, (aljezera, LBC ect) or even you can just cheq on there sites, in in arabic but you can translate it with google or somthing. ( pretty good translations)

At 7/15/06 04:27 PM, gooze_bump wrote: www.atimes.com/atime..e_East/HG15Ak02.html


The two Israel Soldiers were on the Lebandon side. Therefore th e Lebanonese had full right to kindap them as Prisoners of War. IT was only defending itself, the same reason Israel is using and bush's excuse for Israels actions. Also, the rumor mill is that Syria and IRan had soemthing to do with it. First fom Hezbollah, to Iran ad Syria. Where is the evidence of it? Sort of like WMD in IRaq statement with no evidence. Hmm its jsut funny how its the same coutnries on PNACS hits list no? You know what going to happen. they are going to bomb tehran and damacus, start an all out awar, America of course is going to support Israel 100% and our troops situated in Iraq right now are in the middle of it. All hail America, Israels bitch.

WOW ARE YOU WRONG OR WHAT? WATCH CNN, Israeli troops conducting a standard BORDER PATROL on Israeli Soil were attacked by some odd number of Hezbollah troops who CROSSED the border in a daring raid which was planned for months, they also used rockets as distractions which were fired at the other side of the border, read and watch the news and papers before you post stupid crap like that, the whole world understands this, of course besides you

At 7/15/06 05:59 PM, shakiko wrote: i dont consider hezballah a terrorist group, i think that the USA and isreal call them that is because hezballah its what kepping them from geting rid of lebanon.

and ALL of lebanon is bombed , there is no roads left , its not just beirut , you would know that if you have some kind of arab news network, (aljezera, LBC ect) or even you can just cheq on there sites, in in arabic but you can translate it with google or somthing. ( pretty good translations)

we rely on this information coming from someone who said israel bombed a bus full of kids right, if that did happen it would be all over the news since cnn is of course a little biased if you watch the reports, this coming from a jew, and by the way the terrorists of your Hesbollah arent doing shit to scare the israeli's, im from Toronto Canada, I have a trip booked in August to Israel, and guess what I'm going so you come to meet me and try to bomb me, some of you guys are so biased youve been grown up to hate, and hate, and hate and as a result yo ucannot even see the truth right infront of your face

well , you can go to your home country , i cant even if i tried, no airports , no ports no roads, were being bombed every two freken seconds. ect, i just hope my mom comes home safely

At 7/15/06 06:37 PM, shakiko wrote: well , you can go to your home country , i cant even if i tried, no airports , no ports no roads, were being bombed every two freken seconds. ect, i just hope my mom comes home safely

yeah dude i feel sorry for your mom. I'll pray for her to all the Gods. JUst saw on the news u are right they arre attacking Central and North lebanon too, not jsut the south. Its a fucked up situation :/ where the only people that will be hurt are again the INNOCENT.

lucky for my mom shes a canadien citizen ,she went to the embasy and they said there geting a boat ready or somthin for canadien citizens , but that also what the american embasy said to the american citizens in lebanon...