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Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits

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Coop
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Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 05:51 AM Reply

Ladies and Gentlemen, Mods and Trolls. Let me have your attention for just a moment!

We here on Newgrounds have a responsibility to keep the place clean and tidy. This goes for everything that comes into this place and everything that goes out. You're as much a part of the community as the next person, so why not do your bit? I'm not asking the earth, just that you give us as much time as you feel is necessary.

The Flash Portal is in a state of disrepair and it will take a mammoth effort from all of us to help right the old girl and keep P-Bot happy. You know the drill, every flash that comes in from outside gets vetted by us, the community and we watch the movies and play the games, before giving a vote of 0-5, based on how good or bad it was.

That's the crux - I want people to join in with watching these movies and realising that a lot of them are actually crap that gets by with the reputation of the author that is on the left of screen, by a submission. THAT DOESN'T MATTER! A flash author's reputation should count for nothing, as should the crew, collective, or other bunch of wankers that he spams with. View each and every piece that comes in and afford it a vote that the piece deserves.

If we all make a little change to watch these pieces, before voting fairly, the balance can be restored. Everyone in this place seems to look at most submissions that come through and automatically vote them 2-5. Can it be said that they don't watch them? I'm sure that not everyone does, since otherwise, we wouldn't get pieces of absolute crap getting through the portal

Is a perfect example, as it is either broken (just being a black screen), or it was put there to prove a point and miraculously, it got through judgement, since people read the blurb and voted blindly. You can see how frustrating it is, can't you?

Yes, I am a stat whore. I vote on the portal on a daily basis and I watch these pieces and play the games, before rendering my votes. A lot of my votes go begging, as I vote a lot of 0 every day and still come away relatively empty handed. With more people to the cause, casually throwing away their zeroes, we will start to see more and more of these marginal flash disappear off our screens, being replaced with better pieces, as the authors get the message and make better submissions.

Zero Bombing
I am going to propose to Tom a radical change to the voting system, since I am aware that there is another plague that bothers us all - zero bombers on submissions. Particularly in the Audio and Art Portals, we have people that come along and daily vote 0 on various submissions for shits and giggles. It's a shame, since they probably don't listen to the submissions, merely do it out of spite.

It is here that I come to my proposal - every user be allowed to vote on each submission only once. You must be logged in to vote on Newgrounds submissions - this will encourage more people to register with Newgrounds and will put a stop to the abusive practices on the portal involving proxies and such like to mass vote spam through our fair portal. There is a time and a place to vote zero on submissions and I have identified these earlier in the text.

TL;DR - Fix your voting habits - watch the piece, rate it how you think it should be, not how you think it will be


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:07 AM Reply

I agree with you in all points. This is no jo-

Oh wait, I just read TL;DR

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:15 AM Reply

It's not broken, it's only 56KB so that means the black screen was put there deliberately. That file size can't really hold much more than that. Especially not an animation.

I hate how most of the first reviews a good Flash receives are like a 7 or an 8 and give some critique, but after it passes and gets on the best of the week list, it only gets reviews giving it a 10 and saying "lololol, good movie".

Take this for example:

It's a pretty decent submission, it gets the point across, but face it: IT'S REALLY FUCKING UGLY! Now here comes the big joke: it got top of the week and top of all time.

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:17 AM Reply

Well said Coop. It definitely is time for change around here. Like most people i've become tired of seeing everything that comes into the portal passing. While a lot of stuff is good and deserves to stay the stuff that you mentioned passing is what bothers me. When I vote 0 on something that doesn't work or was put together in 5 minutes for a laugh and it passes it's really frustrating. Even today there were several extremely glitchy games that passed just due to the nature of people voting thinking it will pass. I'm glad to finally see this sort of thing come to the light of general and i'm with you in the revolution.

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:25 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 05:51 AM, Coop wrote: TL;DR - Fix your voting habits - watch the piece, rate it how you think it should be, not how you think it will be

Very well put. I rate MOST of the movies that are submitted 0 or 1, because well, I am fed up with half assed shit like dress up games or "search the numbers in this picture" games. But guess what? I still get more saves than blams on almost any given day. Often I log my stats on NG Logs and think: "19 saves? I didn't even vote 2-5 this much today, how on earth did I get 19 saves and only 6 blams?"


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Gagsy
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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:26 AM Reply

Personally I think they need to raise the score requirements again.

What is it now 1.60? I feel it could go as high as 2.00. How many flash below 2.00 do you find worthy of watching?


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:26 AM Reply

Good, coop, but then again not allowing guests to vote will mean that there will be a massive influx of users, and then due to the voting power, as people vote, their power will go higher, and thus will increase the amount the flash's score decreases.
Currently, some of my flash are also being zero-bombed, just because people are jelly -- it's as if users installed a program to automatically vote zero on the thing everyday with a simple script, and they have succeeded in doing so -- bringing a score of 3.05 to 2.9, with 400 votes+! And all the time, it was only zero bombing -- the score was 3.05 at 340 votes!


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:28 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 06:26 AM, Gagsy wrote: Personally I think they need to raise the score requirements again.

What is it now 1.60? I feel it could go as high as 2.00. How many flash below 2.00 do you find worthy of watching?

None. It's just that any flash piques people's curiosity and so makes them watch it.
Then again, the 1.60 is just to prevent people from removing a good flash (2+) from being zero bombed, atleast, that's what I think.


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:30 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 06:26 AM, Gagsy wrote: Personally I think they need to raise the score requirements again.

What is it now 1.60? I feel it could go as high as 2.00. How many flash below 2.00 do you find worthy of watching?

+1 for Gagsy. If they'd do that, then there'd be finally a better balance between blamming/protecting for hardcore judgment policemen!

I like Gagsy's idea(s).

sixflab
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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:36 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 06:26 AM, Gagsy wrote: Personally I think they need to raise the score requirements again.

What is it now 1.60? I feel it could go as high as 2.00. How many flash below 2.00 do you find worthy of watching?

Maybe it'll catch on and while the administrators have said that the requirement for entry is a little low there is still the matter of actually increasing it.

Also:

This is under judgement. Doesn't work here so I thought I would see if it worked on their site since that's where it's based. Well it doesn't work there either. Just another example of a glitchy or broken game being submitted to the portal.

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:42 AM Reply

Nice one, coop. let me state that I am doing my best to be a part of the solution, not the problem. I have picked up my voting habits and zero certain submissions.

I have only recently started stat-whoring for B/P and shortly noticed horrid submissions getting through. Alas, no go for blamming sometimes.

I vote fair. though.

At 4/9/11 06:36 AM, sixflab wrote: Also:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/56 6980
This is under judgement. Doesn't work here so I thought I would see if it worked on their site since that's where it's based. Well it doesn't work there either. Just another example of a glitchy or broken game being submitted to the portal.

I was able to play it. Nothing special.


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sixflab
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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:47 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 06:42 AM, Narcissy wrote:
At 4/9/11 06:36 AM, sixflab wrote: Also:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/56 6980
This is under judgement. Doesn't work here so I thought I would see if it worked on their site since that's where it's based. Well it doesn't work there either. Just another example of a glitchy or broken game being submitted to the portal.
I was able to play it. Nothing special.

Still very glitchy if you ask me. Tried playing on two browsers. Both here and on their site. Freezes on the menu everytime.

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:48 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 06:36 AM, sixflab wrote: Also:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/56 6980
This is under judgement. Doesn't work here so I thought I would see if it worked on their site since that's where it's based. Well it doesn't work there either. Just another example of a glitchy or broken game being submitted to the portal.

Yes, I just tried that one too. It's indeed broken.

Dosensuppen
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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:49 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 06:36 AM, sixflab wrote: Also:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/56 6980
This is under judgement. Doesn't work here so I thought I would see if it worked on their site since that's where it's based. Well it doesn't work there either. Just another example of a glitchy or broken game being submitted to the portal.

Use your arrow keys on the menu. Move the arrow key to hover over New Game and hit zero on the number pad area. Don't know why they did that, but whatever.


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:50 AM Reply

Lets just get rid of everything.

And start the whole website all over again.

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 06:51 AM Reply

I usually try to give an honest vote but I do have a bad habit of voting blindly on some of the really stupid sponsored games (such as crappy dress ups etc) that come through the protal.


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:18 AM Reply

I'm behind this 100% except for maybe the daily voting part on individual submissions. Maybe limit to a week or a month? As for bad submissions passing, I've ranted on this a few times when I make the B/P updates and there are cowards out there who hide themselves away from the forums and vote as they please without watching. It's a shame but maybe if the General forum users can listen to us, we might get somewhere.

We have confidence in you guys!


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:18 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 05:51 AM, Coop wrote: It is here that I come to my proposal - every user be allowed to vote on each submission only once.

I agree with most points except this one. It's a crappy idea. What if you change your mind or if you misclick the right vote number?


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:21 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 07:18 AM, Lorkas wrote:
At 4/9/11 05:51 AM, Coop wrote: It is here that I come to my proposal - every user be allowed to vote on each submission only once.
I agree with most points except this one. It's a crappy idea. What if you change your mind or if you misclick the right vote number?

Then it's hardly the end of the world.

I think it makes sense only being allowed to vote on each submission once. Why do we need to vote again after that?


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:21 AM Reply

VIVA LA SEGUNDO REVOLUTION!!!

In all seriousness though, spot on Coop. It's a crying shame and a poor reflection on us as a userbase. Newgrounds has, is continuing to, and will in future provide us with a lot of FREE entertainment. All that is asked in return is that we as a userbase act as quality control on the Flash Portal, by filtering out the crap from the gems.

We are failing. Miserably.

The minute that points come before quality, is the minute the system fails. If you vote based on the author, the author comments, the description, or the fact that it's a new contributor, and not on the quality of the flash itself, YOU are the problem. YOU are what's wrong with the Portal. YOU are the reason why promising young Flash artists are scared away for fear of being blammed indiscriminately, and why all a spam crew has to do is have coherent author comments and a half-decent preloader to pass, without even needing to mass vote. Fact is, the majority of voters do it for them.

I put it to you, why do this? What's that you say, you want to increase your rank so you have more voting power and have more influence? WHY BOTHER if you are just going to waste it by voting unfairly?

The B/P ranks were created to reward those users who spend their time on the Portal voting on flashes. It was a sort of covenant of trust; the more you vote on, the more power to influence a flash's fate you were entrusted with. But most voters have betrayed that trust.

Many users are fed up with the status quo. The Newgrounds Police Department and Elite Guard Barracks clubs (of which I am respectively an ex-member and current 2nd-in-command) are tireless in their efforts to provide a united front against spam and mass voting. We do everything in our power to provide an example, of how EVERY flash, irrespective of author, irrespective of what day it is (Clock Day very much included), irrespective of all other factors, DESERVES a fair vote. Some users have gone as far as to protest this current state of affairs...

SlashFirestorm (who wrote some thought-provoking pieces on the Portal
here), a former EGB leader, a former Supreme Commander, has recently done what many of the savewhores on this site would find unthinkable: he got the admins to reset him to 0 B/P, as a protest to the current state of the Portal. More than 30,000 points, gone. He felt not all of them were merited; he occasionally didn't vote fairly. So he started from scratch, giving every single flash the vote he felt it truly deserved. I can only hope that others start from scratch in a sense, perhaps not to the extreme he has, but that they can go back to basics, realise that points are just numbers on a website. You owe no debt to NG, it provides much and asks for little. The least you can do is treat it with enough respect to give submissions a fair score, so that the system works.

A sea change is needed, a really fucking big one. It could come from the admins; they could revamp the system so that we as users are strongarmed into behaving in an appropriate manner. However, I cling to the faint hope that they don't need to. We CAN change things. As a collective, we can spread the message of fair voting to as many people as possible. It takes 200 votes to pass a submission. At the moment, I doubt half of the votes the average flash gets are "fair". If we could get to a stage where 150 of every 200 votes were fair assessments of the flash's quality, we would outnumber the savewhores 3:1! It can be done!

On that point, stop overusing 0 and 5. That's one of the reasons why things are the way they are. Save 0 for something of absolutely no merit: a picture, a blank screen etc. 5 on the other hand should only be used on something of outstanding quality, perhaps once a day or week. Look at the Tank Award nominees. If you consider it on that level of quality, 5 away. If not, the 1-4 buttons aren't broken. Use them.

To conclude, not to be cliché, but great power does come with great responsibility. The admins do not have the time to check every submission that comes into the Portal, so they trust us to do so for them. Betray that trust no longer. Forget the points. Watch the flash, make an honest judgement on whether you enjoyed it or not, and vote accordingly. The Portal is broken, but if we unite as a userbase, it CAN be fixed.

The change starts with you. So, the question is, are you in?

TL;DR - if you need this, then you are just the sort of person who should read this.
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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:24 AM Reply

You know, when a flash is Under Judgement, what's the point with having 0-5? I wonder would it be better to change it to simply "Blam or Protect?" - Two buttons to decide if it passes or not. And after that it goes through "Showcase" Where people then vote on it for a score. And then it goes on like any other flash.

Basically, during Judgement it has two buttons Blam and Protect, no score. Number of votes to decide if it lives or not.

I dunno, I just thought that a few times.


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:26 AM Reply

Another revolution? Awesome!

While I agree with what you said, I would like to bring in the fair point gfoxcook made that more submissions passing judgment doesn't have to be a bad thing. Most of the bad submissions will just sink to the depths of the portal anyway and are forever forgotten about. Some people might still have fun with them and they don't hurt anyone.

At 4/9/11 06:15 AM, Wolfos wrote: It's not broken, it's only 56KB so that means the black screen was put there deliberately. That file size can't really hold much more than that. Especially not an animation.

Not necessarily. It could have been a flash that redirected to another flash on a different server than NG's. Kinda like Miniclip does and many other of those game websites. Their submissions are no larger than 1.3 kb usually.

But indeed there is a pretty big chance that it wasn't much to begin with.


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:34 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 07:21 AM, Gagsy wrote:
At 4/9/11 07:18 AM, Lorkas wrote:
At 4/9/11 05:51 AM, Coop wrote: It is here that I come to my proposal - every user be allowed to vote on each submission only once.
I agree with most points except this one. It's a crappy idea. What if you change your mind or if you misclick the right vote number?
Then it's hardly the end of the world.

I think it makes sense only being allowed to vote on each submission once. Why do we need to vote again after that?

To show our love...,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..
,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,....,..,..,..,..,.
.,..,


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:34 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 06:36 AM, sixflab wrote: Also:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/56 6980
This is under judgement. Doesn't work here so I thought I would see if it worked on their site since that's where it's based. Well it doesn't work there either. Just another example of a glitchy or broken game being submitted to the portal.

That submissions works for me. The controls are a bit silly though. You have use the 0 on your numpad to proceed.

At 4/9/11 06:51 AM, Trystlions wrote: I usually try to give an honest vote but I do have a bad habit of voting blindly on some of the really stupid sponsored games (such as crappy dress ups etc) that come through the protal.

Most of them aren't bad, they're just the same idea over and over again with minimal effort to make changes. Personally I find those okay to stay, but that's just my opinion. I can imagine some people might be getting fed up with them.

Also, Tom asked whether he should delete all those flashes not too long ago.


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:37 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 07:26 AM, Auz wrote: Another revolution? Awesome!

While I agree with what you said, I would like to bring in the fair point gfoxcook made that more submissions passing judgment doesn't have to be a bad thing. Most of the bad submissions will just sink to the depths of the portal anyway and are forever forgotten about. Some people might still have fun with them and they don't hurt anyone.

They only hurt the people going for stats and pissing them off when they lose a blam point, I'd guess.

Though if a Flash really doesn't deserve to be on the flash portal and still passes through (like a KK submission), Wade will kindly delete them.

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:38 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 07:34 AM, Auz wrote: I can imagine some people might be getting fed up with them.

Yo.

Also, Tom asked whether he should delete all those flashes not too long ago.

I seriously would. This place is getting dumped with the same game over and over, just different graphics.


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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:39 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 07:34 AM, Lorkas wrote: To show our love...,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,..
,..,..,..,..,..,..,..,....,..,..,..,..,.
.,..,

But that's the problem though!

You get people like Adam Phillips fans (no offense to his work at all!) mass voting his flash up and downvoting the ones above his, just to try and get his work back up top where they feel it belongs. It's not fair and it actually makes the whole process of who is top incorrect, as you don't know if they're there because they deserve it or just because they have more fans willing to massvote it up every single day.

this is just an example btw. People do it for other favoured flash as well

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 07:51 AM Reply

Most of the bad submissions will just sink to the depths of the portal anyway and are forever forgotten about. Some people might still have fun with them and they don't hurt anyone.

I don't know how many times I've seen this idea and other like-idea's presented in the past, but I agree with Auz for the most part in this thread as I always have felt this way in regards to the Portal.

I wouldn't go saying the Portal is in a state of despair, it's far from it. Hopefully it never actually reaches the point where nothing is submitted to it because that's the only time I believe you can make such claims.


c̴a̶s̴t̷

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 08:56 AM Reply

Hey kids,

Vote how ever you see fit. Don't let this racist commie bastard try to change the world. His world is no better than the one we already live in. What makes his world so much better? Because he is a crappy mod? Because he needs more points? Bah. Let him suffer like the rest of us.

I say down with Coop the Poop, and all his racist commie crap.

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Response to Revolution 2011 - Voting Habits Apr. 9th, 2011 @ 08:57 AM Reply

At 4/9/11 05:51 AM, Coop wrote: Zero Bombing

It is here that I come to my proposal - every user be allowed to vote on each submission only once. You must be logged in to vote on Newgrounds submissions

I can't wait for that.