At 8/11/06 05:16 PM, Monocrom wrote:

To: Dark-

What you refered to is called "flowing." That's when you get good enough to anticipate natural human responses and be able to instantly transition from one technique or move into another, and do it seemlessly........ Some Martial Artists spend a Lifetime trying to get to that point. A point where they can flow from one to another to another to another.......... Not just one to one.

We have excersises to help do that in our school. most people try to set back up every time they do a technique when we first tell them to do that..

To: Inuma-

There are definitely advantages to sometimes letting an opponent or even an attacker come to you........ As you get older, you learn how to "wait."

Don't you just love young hotheads who charge in?......... And they honestly expect to always win! That's the best part!! :D

....Thats what my shihan does. He never attacks when he spars us, he waits for us to commit to a stupid move then counters it....he punches hard too.

Inuma:

I have to disagree with you a little bit. There are two kinds of martial arts practitioners: The ones that do them at least partially for the less combative side, and think that only people who can hold back should advance, and the other kind, people who recognize the original use for the arts; combat.

I do agree that people should hold back in sparring, and that the point is not to hurt the opponent. I do also think that the ultimate practitioner of the arts is the one that has the opponent beaten dead in three seconds with no effort. If someone is capable of doing that then it is almost universal that they can hold back. I don't agree with wanton killing of opponents, but I think that the ultimate and original goal of martial arts is to advance your ability to participate in combat.

Everyone: Sorry i disappeared for a while, i've been doing.... stuff.

About attacking/defending:

In a fight I generally wait for the bum-rush, then put out a leg and place a hand or two. If I am fighting somebody skilled at all (only 1/4 of all of my actual fights) i'll wait for them to attack usually, but I almost instantly thereafter switch to attacking them.

When fighting in a tournament, I am very aggressive. It normally works for me. But that doesn't mean I'm an instigator in a fight, or should be stripped of my rank. And when I spar, I have only drawn blood once. And thats because he opened his mouth and i hit a direct hit to his teeth.

Now I do agree with you about people hurting other people. Two weeks after I turned sixteen, I sparred a 24 year old. 8 years is alot at that age. He broke my nose, and made it a point to keep on attacking it after it was broke. Of course I didn't want to stop, but he should not be able to call himself a martial artist. He was more like a big bully taking advantage of a smaller and younger kid.

And yes, if you were wondering, I won the match. Stupid kid.

Twoam: that sounded like it hurt...

Lager: Please tell us where you were, I'm sure you have an interesting story or two to tell.

Hey guys, just wanted to bring up a topic inspired by satan.

A little back, she talked about her dancing skills. When it comes to footwork in martial arts, it seems that the ones who are best at it are the ones who are excellent dancers.

What do you guys think of the relationship between dancing & martial arts.

(At the very least, if you know how to dance; you'll be better at atracting the ladies).

There are alot of dirty sparring people out there and its a shame that they are such jerks when sparring. Last tournament i went to the guy would push someone down and then kick them in the face as they fell.

And about dancing martial arts. Last i checked there is a whole style based off of that.....

At 8/12/06 02:52 PM, Monocrom wrote: Hey guys, just wanted to bring up a topic inspired by satan.

A little back, she talked about her dancing skills. When it comes to footwork in martial arts, it seems that the ones who are best at it are the ones who are excellent dancers.

What do you guys think of the relationship between dancing & martial arts.

(At the very least, if you know how to dance; you'll be better at atracting the ladies).

Have you ever seen professional dancers? Usually they are built, fast on their feet, and can do some really cool moves. I bet that if they were really talented, you can use any style of dance to help with martial arts.

DSM: I think that I've heard of that before but have never seen it.

Monocrom:

Actually, I have never broken either arm, but at the moment I do have a busted toe, my knee is braced, and we think I might have bruised my breast. I recently sparred someone who didn't believe in holding back and well, they gave me a very nice roundhouse to the chest and i wasn't wearing a breast guard.

And about the dancing and fighting. I am a dancer as well as a fighter and I tend to find myself using both in my actual sparring and dancing. I use the dancing movements to get around my opponent and sometimes I even use certain jumps that we do in tangos to get extra hieght on kicks. I am after all naturally very short 5 '1 so it is hard when I fight you 5'9-6'0 guys.

I can kick varily high but sometimes that is still not enough no matter how much I lean. So one day after I got sick of this I discovered that if I motify a normal jumping front snap kick with a twisting flip (dance move) I can double my height, like I was doing a 360 round or tornado kick.

Another thing I get from dancing is how I move myself around the ring, I can twist and turn my body so close in that if I am doing a close up fight I can still turn my back to you and drawl you in before you realise I am punching. My favorite thing to do is turn my back with a twisting of the legs and wait for the person to fall into the trap, then I backfist them by untwisting the legs very quickly. It doubles my speed and power, without hurting me or the opponent to badly.

In short dancing and sparring have a lot in common.

Lagerkapo:

I understand where you are coming from but to truely understand where i was coming from you have to refer to why martial arts was created in the first place. Back in 37 thousand B.C they were looking for a way to practice fighting in the military which each other in such a way as to not hurt their opponante. Point sparring (or at least a form) was created at this point, along with kata's. the focus of which being to learn and educate without hurting.

that is the reason my style practices the way it does because origonally the military martial arts had a firm belief that those who would drawl a brothers blood were not suited for combat because they had not enough understanding of the body. After all:

Who is more dangerous, the whitebelt or the blackbelt?

To: fr13-

Oh yes..... I have seen professional dancers. Male or Female, they have the best bodies on the planet! :)

But I was refering to average folks who both take martial arts, and know how to dance. People who can do both, but not good enough to teach either one; for a Living.

Not all martial artists can dance, the ones that can....... I believe they have an advantage.
___________________________
To: lnuma-

What happened to you is another reason why I always advocate using proper safety equipment. Getting hit by accident can happen to anyone. Getting hit because you're sparring an Asshole, well; that can happen to anyone as well.......... Here's hoping your chest injury isn't too bad, and that you quickly recover from your current ones.

The example you gave to Tom sounds similar to something I posted here, a long time ago........

"The World's greatest Swordsman has nothing to fear from the World's 2nd greatest Swordsman....... It's the unpredictable rank amateur that needs to be afraid of, the guy who could do absolutely anything at all; once they square off."

Not my original words; but very profound.

Capabrera(pardon the butchering of the spelling) is the dance style that im talking about. Its a really cool style and i would like to learn it myself but its hard to find actual teachers.

Guys i have a suggestion about our post try not to say To (whoever started the subject) cause when i see that i kinda lose interest in the topic since it starts to seem like it doesnt refer to me at all.

At 8/12/06 10:38 PM, dsmking wrote: Capabrera(pardon the butchering of the spelling) is the dance style that im talking about. Its a really cool style and i would like to learn it myself but its hard to find actual teachers.

I have heard of that style but I have never actually gotten to participate in it. I have watched it once or twice but like you I have not found a teacher, only people learning.

Guys i have a suggestion about our post try not to say To (whoever started the subject) cause when i see that i kinda lose interest in the topic since it starts to seem like it doesnt refer to me at all.

I understand that but it also makes it easier to carry a conversation threwout the post because you can direct subjects and other people can question those subjects by quting you and such. I don't think i'm making much sense but oh well.

At 8/12/06 07:05 PM, InumaAsahiDe wrote:

Lagerkapo:

I understand where you are coming from but to truely understand where i was coming from you have to refer to why martial arts was created in the first place. Back in 37 thousand B.C they were looking for a way to practice fighting in the military which each other in such a way as to not hurt their opponante. Point sparring (or at least a form) was created at this point, along with kata's. the focus of which being to learn and educate without hurting.

that is the reason my style practices the way it does because origonally the military martial arts had a firm belief that those who would drawl a brothers blood were not suited for combat because they had not enough understanding of the body. After all:

Who is more dangerous, the whitebelt or the blackbelt?

Mono stole what I was going to say. The number one guy has nothing to fear from the number two guy; it's the unpredictable new guy that he needs to watch. I understand how one would try not to hurt somebody in a spar, and I don't go all out in spars almost ever, but I disagree with the statement that somebody who doesn't hold back is unworthy of his title.

Fremen: Let's just say I did more partying (mostly alone) than Snoop Dog and Bob Marley combined. I was very unfit to be making intelligent posts on an internet forum in which I desire to retain any respect (except in the insomniacs club).

Dsm: I will continue to address people in my posts simply because it'll be easier for them to find what pertains to them. If you want to partake in the conversation then there's nothing stopping you from jumping in.

Dancing in martial arts: I think that dancers do have an advantage, but at the same time they tend to be more straightforward and mechanical about martial arts. I see it a lot in my Tai Chi class, people come in who have been dancing for ten years, and simply butcher the form and lose heart when they need to learn to do things differently. I'm not saying that dancers are all like that, but in Tai Chi it happens a lot.

At 8/12/06 07:05 PM, InumaAsahiDe wrote: Monocrom:

I am after all naturally very short 5 '1 so it is hard when I fight you 5'9-6'0 guys.

When I spar in the adult classes, I come up with that problem myself, and have found a clever solution for some fighters. Sometimes, the other guy will hold back to either 1) read my style, or 2) wait for me to do something stupid. Sometimes, if its the first, I'll start kicking and doing what ever, then randomly lunge in and punch them in the head. Usually they'll get a weak strike or two in, but I get the moral victory. Sadly, this doesn't work on guys who know I'm tough, so they end up figuring out how to counter it. Its still fun though, when continuous fighting with a large oopponent.

At 8/12/06 10:38 PM, dsmking wrote: Guys i have a suggestion about our post try not to say To (whoever started the subject) cause when i see that i kinda lose interest in the topic since it starts to seem like it doesnt refer to me at all.

Honestly, I do that because it's the most efficient way to respond to what each member has said; since the last time I posted. It's not meant to exclude anyone. Each member has the option to read the entire post, or just the part that specifically pertains to them. Sorry if you felt left out. Wasn't my intention to exclude anyone. But there really is no better way of responding to each, individual member's comments.

At 8/13/06 03:24 AM, Monocrom wrote:

At 8/12/06 10:38 PM, dsmking wrote: Guys i have a suggestion about our post try not to say To (whoever started the subject) cause when i see that i kinda lose interest in the topic since it starts to seem like it doesnt refer to me at all.

Honestly, I do that because it's the most efficient way to respond to what each member has said; since the last time I posted. It's not meant to exclude anyone. Each member has the option to read the entire post, or just the part that specifically pertains to them. Sorry if you felt left out. Wasn't my intention to exclude anyone. But there really is no better way of responding to each, individual member's comments.

Yeah, I just jump in anyways. I don't even care whos talking, what matters most is when someone refers to another person, we know who they are talking about. Its like using quotes without the quotes.

Hey Satanic.......do you live in USA.....if you do i have something to ask you(i assume you do, but i would like to make sure).

At 8/13/06 01:10 PM, Dark_orchestra wrote: Hey Satanic.......do you live in USA.....if you do i have something to ask you(i assume you do, but i would like to make sure).

Yeah dude, she does.

If it's M.A. related, ask here. If not, just PM her.

At 8/13/06 03:45 PM, Monocrom wrote:

At 8/13/06 01:10 PM, Dark_orchestra wrote: Hey Satanic.......do you live in USA.....if you do i have something to ask you(i assume you do, but i would like to make sure).

Yeah dude, she does.

If it's M.A. related, ask here. If not, just PM her.

right....sorry.

At 8/13/06 05:12 PM, Dark_orchestra wrote:

At 8/13/06 03:45 PM, Monocrom wrote:

At 8/13/06 01:10 PM, Dark_orchestra wrote: Hey Satanic.......do you live in USA.....if you do i have something to ask you(i assume you do, but i would like to make sure).

Yeah dude, she does.

If it's M.A. related, ask here. If not, just PM her.

right....sorry.

It's cool. Don't worry about it. I just figured you'd want an answer to your question as soon as possible. And she's not on, right now........... Club members should help each other out. :)

Capeoria is an art that originated in Brazil during the time of slavery. The slaves would mimick the fighting movements of monkies and other animals they saw and created a fighting style. They would practice their style in tall grass fields to keep their art secret. If their owners found out they were doing a fighting style they would probably be beaten or killed. Since the art is disguised as a dance the slave owners didnt think much of it. The literal translation of Capeoria is "dancing in tall grass."

I learned that from Dan Inasanto at one of his seminars in Atlanta. Btw- I know what areas most of you guys live in the US so if Im ever going to be out your way Ill let you know. If you see someone that might look like me I wouldnt suggest asking them because I rarely leave my house. I live in Tennessee and spend a lot of time in Atlanta, GA. I try to avoid leaving my comfort zone.

Has anyone been watching the show on Fox called So You Think You Can Dance? Awesome show. I watch it religiously every week since it premiered last season. Dancers would make amazing martial artists and that show proves it. Dancing has improved my techniques so much I cant even explain it. The only think I can tell you is to check out a few dance schools. Right now Im getting tired af MA and Im thinking about going back into dance for a while. I need to change a few things. Im getting bored.

Mono-

Yes, marriage has very small economical benefits, but that isnt going to add up to what you'll pay in divorce costs and everything she walks out with that belonged to you when she moves out. I should know, I work with this shit. But the bottom line is that my instructor's "sacred bond" with his wife is interferring with my play time! :P

DSM-

You bitch when we post novels, and you bitch when we break it individually so you dont have to read everything. What else are you going to bitch about? Are you on the rag? Do you need a tampon? I am going to continue to respond to each person's question or comment individually, it makes my post look more organized and everyone gets their response. The only reason you dont want us breaking our posts down is because we dont address you as often as you want? If you would read the entire post you might find a topic that catches your interest, not one of us would have a problem with you adding to our conversations. If you dont find a topic you like, post your own. Im sure youll get a response.

I think dancing would greatly improve ones martial arts. I read or watched on TV, or just heard somewhere a while back that Jean Claude Van Dam took ballet to improve his grace while performing martial arts for the camera (don't know if it's true). When you think about it they are very similar, atleast certain aspects. The purposes remain quite different though.

At 8/13/06 10:40 PM, ThunderboltLegion wrote: I think dancing would greatly improve ones martial arts. I read or watched on TV, or just heard somewhere a while back that Jean Claude Van Dam took ballet to improve his grace while performing martial arts for the camera (don't know if it's true). When you think about it they are very similar, atleast certain aspects. The purposes remain quite different though.

It would defiaantly enhance speed and agility. Dancing Would also help you to know diferant evasions than the ones taught to you.

Dancing also makes cool charachters in fighting games(ever play soulcaliber? Guess what Voldo is based around).

The reason i said that is because if you where a new member to the club and people just typed To BLAH: would you feel excluded or not. Look im not saying you can't do that im just suggesting it in order to make things seem less excluded. Maybe you could say "About Hapkido" or "about knees" instead of To: mono(just using him as an example) because quite honestly when i see something like that i lose interest in the subject pretty quick. Unless it is about something about pertaining to that person personally i dont see the point.

And i know you can just jump into the subjects, I mean I do I just felt that it would be a better thing to do.

Speaking of video games in martial arts i got a good story about that.

There once was a kid at my school a couple of years ago and well you could say he was a little messed up in the head. He used to play tekken alot and said that he learned capeoria just because he constantly used the character who did it in the game. @@

But i must say one thing when i play tekken i always use the Tae Kwon Do people and destroy my friends with them. Now i dont play tekken and when i beat my friends all i say it is because of real experience.

About gaming (happy?):

Thats interesting. I dont doubt you can learn an art from a video game. It would probably be similar to learning an art from an instructonal tape. Soulcalibar is a cool game, despite how much I hate PS2 . We have one and the only thing I use it for is playing DVDs. Im more of an xbox junkie. You can tell from mine, and my little bro's myspace that we spend a lot of time gaming. Bro and I can outshoot a seasoned marine just from playing Halo2 and America's Army.

About posts:

Sorry I went off on you, DSM. You should have said that in your original post. I will start breaking down my posts for general topics, but to address an individual's question or comment I will address them specifically so that they dont have to read through everything if they dont want to. I like being able to skip down to my name instead of reading things that dont interest me.

One thing I've learned is there's "knowing how to do something" and "actually doing something"...

I try not to burst out laughing when people tell me they are self taught martial artists...which means they probably just watched some movies and maybe read a few books...now there is nothing wrong with learning martial arts alone...I do it a lot sometimes...but I spent a good 4 years with masters and grand masters, I am at the point where I understand the art well enough to find answers to problems...

just because you can read or watch how to fly a air plane, doesn't mean you can pilot one...

I just read a few posts back, so if Im totally off or off topic, just ignore my stupid ass... =D

Gaming: Sometimes the makers try to make it realistic, but I agree with Satanic when she said you can't learn it from a video game. You also can't learn how to out-shoot Marines from a video game also :) (Seriously, those guys go through a lot of stuff to get as good as they are, and they are battle trained, so in a battle they would probably be better than you, and in Halo2 you use joysticks to aim, thats a lot different than a real game.)

Still, observing the martial arts aspect of some games is fun, like in LOTR 3 the video game, I'd like to see if some of those techniques are actually real in medieval battle and such.

Okay I have mixed feelings about this. So I asked my brother what he thought. In the Mortal Kombat series on xbox it has step by step lessons on actual techniques. How to do them properly and how to execute them and then you take your character into fights. I dont see how this is different from a martial arts instructonal tape. I cant say anything as far as self taught martial artists because in the tournament area I am self taught. I have several tapes which I learned from and created my own form and took it to competition. I did very well too. But then again I already had a base in martial arts. I think for people interested in MA but have never done it the tapes would be a great thing to show you what youll be getting into and to give you a base. I hated it when I first started in MA because I had no idea what I was doing and I was clumsy. But at some point you would have to consult an actual school for further instruction if you want to go forward in your training.

I do agree with Fremen. I dont have as much training as a seasoned marine would, but the thumb sticks on an xbox controller does help steady your hand and give you a better aim. It has helped my shooting abilities by a ton and in a shooting range I can outshoot a marine, but on a battlefield, however, I might have a bit of trouble. But thats where my martial arts training would come in.

You know they have Doctors in practice today that have read all they need to know and have never even been near a scapel. (Me for example) I dont see why you cant learn a martial art from a video game or a tape and be able to apply it effectively in a street match. But thats just my opinion. What do you guys think about self taught martial artists?

I don't think it's possible to be a self-taught martial artist unless you get experience from sparring or real fighting. About a month ago I got some tickets and went to a cage fight (run by the 'FCFF'- Full Contact Fighting Federation) where my sabonim (instructor in Korean- I have 3 years of Moo Yea Do, which is a combination of Tai Chi, Tae Kwon Do and some other forms, Karate mebbe, and 4 years of Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo. It was made by Grand Master Tiger Yang)and other members of the...gym?...'club' @.@ I attend often fight. It's MMA, no-holds-barred and is open to any styles. It's in a big cage, pretty much the same as the octagon in the UFC. There was a heavyweight match- one guy was self taught. The fight lasted about 30 seconds, the self-taught guy got caught in a Guillotine and tapped. I trained and sparred 2 years before my first competition. It was MMA, just no face strikes or twisting heelhooks. My first opponent was a joke, some yellow belt... My second opponent was a black belt in Hap Ki Do, which apparently incorporates ground techniques as well as strikes. I wouldn't know, but he was ground savvy. I tapped him in the second round with a Triangle choke. I was a yellow belt in Moo Yea Do and a white w/ yellow stripe at the time. I'm assuming he attended what I like to call a 'Belt Mill'. You show up, pay, and get a belt every month. Experience and mastery of the basics are huge, and if you're self taught you won't have any experience, or anybody to tell you if you're doing everything right. Sorry for the ramble.

At 8/14/06 06:09 AM, YHelloThar wrote: I don't think it's possible to be a self-taught martial artist unless you get experience from sparring or real fighting. About a month ago I got some tickets and went to a cage fight (run by the 'FCFF'- Full Contact Fighting Federation) where my sabonim (instructor in Korean- I have 3 years of Moo Yea Do, which is a combination of Tai Chi, Tae Kwon Do and some other forms, Karate mebbe, and 4 years of Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo. It was made by Grand Master Tiger Yang)and other members of the...gym?...'club' @.@ I attend often fight. It's MMA, no-holds-barred and is open to any styles. It's in a big cage, pretty much the same as the octagon in the UFC. There was a heavyweight match- one guy was self taught. The fight lasted about 30 seconds, the self-taught guy got caught in a Guillotine and tapped. I trained and sparred 2 years before my first competition. It was MMA, just no face strikes or twisting heelhooks. My first opponent was a joke, some yellow belt... My second opponent was a black belt in Hap Ki Do, which apparently incorporates ground techniques as well as strikes. I wouldn't know, but he was ground savvy. I tapped him in the second round with a Triangle choke. I was a yellow belt in Moo Yea Do and a white w/ yellow stripe at the time. I'm assuming he attended what I like to call a 'Belt Mill'. You show up, pay, and get a belt every month. Experience and mastery of the basics are huge, and if you're self taught you won't have any experience, or anybody to tell you if you're doing everything right. Sorry for the ramble.

Hey! XD Welcome to the MAC. Im satan, Im a 2nd degree in Hapkido. Happy to see we have another UFC/ NHB fan. Im currently the only one. I understand what you're saying, in UFC type fighting it will be pretty damn hard to win a fight without any formal training. In my post concerning self taught martial artists I was referring more to the styles in which I train. Im into the hardcore street application, I think you could learn martial arts from a tape and be able to effectively apply the techniques to a street match. Its great to see how that would work out with someone else's style. Thanks for posting and hopefully youll become a regular.

At 8/14/06 10:02 AM, ChineseGothKid wrote: Yesterday was one of the best days of my life.... I finally got my black belt. WOOHOO!

Nicely done.

To yellow:

Not trying to sound like a jerk but paragraphs are your friend. And welcome

To satan:

Well you should've read what i was originally gonna post back but i decided i would be the mature one :p.

About video game martial arts:

I love seeing actual martial arts in a video game. I mean sometimes they go a little bit overboard half the time but then sometimes they do a pretty damn good job immitating it.