I'd bother to respond to your entire text, but it leads to this sentence, where I will answer your whole issue:

Do I take pride in my work? Of course.

Pride.

Having pride in your work leads one to think you're both confident and proud of your creations, that the means of having achieved your own pride is by only having ears for the music you create, and the confidence you produce is because you believed in what you made.

But I still care what others think

Then I find it hard to believe an individual who takes pride in his work, would be willing to sidestep himself for someone else's ears, just as much.

I know I'm not perfect, so it's best to see what others see when can't for yourself. Know what I'm saying?

You say you're not perfect as a way to remain humble, even after saying you pride your work, the next sentence translates to; "I do not trust myself with my own creations nor do I know why they were made, I must have other people judge them for me". So yes, I know what you're saying, you're confused.

Awfully bold to protect a genre when you have nothing to base it from, keep in mind the subject is about Hip Hop on NG, and the only way you can defend it is by bringing in a basis outside of NG, in other words, you could not create what you feel are the ideals of something you want to protect, beyond a few "open experiments", you are simply mimicking a genre you heard somewhere else, made by other people.

That's kind of like a man saying a particular kind of food is good, being told from the only man who ate it, who had a chef create it for him.

Then I find it hard to believe an individual who takes pride in his work, would be willing to sidestep himself for someone else's ears, just as much.

I'm confident in what I do. Anyone could be. That doesn't make them great. It took the motivation of other people to put me in the mind state.

You say you're not perfect as a way to remain humble, even after saying you pride your work, the next sentence translates to; "I do not trust myself with my own creations nor do I know why they were made, I must have other people judge them for me". So yes, I know what you're saying, you're confused.

Now you're just taking shit outta context. I say I'm not perfect because I still have a lot of improving to do. I take pride in my work because it's better than anything you would hear on the radio. I trust myself with my own creations, and making music is basically a stress reliever to me. I know exactly why I make music, I know exactly what I am doing.

Awfully bold to protect a genre when you have nothing to base it from, keep in mind the subject is about Hip Hop on NG, and the only way you can defend it is by bringing in a basis outside of NG, in other words, you could not create what you feel are the ideals of something you want to protect, beyond a few "open experiments", you are simply mimicking a genre you heard somewhere else, made by other people.

Okay. You want me to bring up people who are actually good on NG instead of the outside world? Fine. There's me, YunVeros, TheEyeOfMusik, Jincallo, KillBillVolume2, PoeticReven, Cajete, PhosphorusProcedure, Greeksta-69, Zajed, WyteNoiz, InGenius, MSeeMercury, and that's only to name a few. And as far as me mimicking a genre, that's a pitiful statement. I live for Hip-Hop. It's partially the reason I even exist period. I mimic nothing, I express my own creativity through countless hours of projects and ideas waiting to be put on a notepad.

So why act like every person who's into Heavy Metal worships the Devil? It's just a trend. quoted from war spawn
if you read it i actually said that there isnt anypoint in people doing that they are stereotypes who think just because they listen to it means they HAVE to wear the things they do i dont care what they wear but atleast be creative and dont be a sheep be part of your own wellbeing and do something different to the crowd.

and you said something about downvoting somewhere
personally i think downvoting is absolutly pointless unless it is crap not weather you like the genre if the song ITSELF had talent in it thats what you need to vote on NOT weather you like hip hop or not if you dont but you see the song writer has talent give it a good mark whats the point in downvoting it?

I speak with slang. So what? You can basically call it an accent. If people don't like it, that's their own problem. I don't knock them for speaking the way they do, so why should they do it to me? Fugg' it

fair enough but what i mean is all the white british or pure bred americans just because they listen to hip hop they think "i should speak like that because i listen to that" i listen to the prodigy does that mean i have to speak like im from down in london??...no it dont mean shit i will carry on speaking as i already do.

and Poetic-Reven said
wow spawn u went to town on that shit lmao just leave this topic alone i'm done with it you should be to ppl are gonna have their own opinion some ppl just think hip hop suckz let them believe what they believe they jsut keep listening to the radio fuck that we kno that the hip hop we make isn't dead so fuck what ppl think we kno that we put hard work into what we do

i dont hink it sucks
its just not my style of music and doesnt interest me but in my area it IS very overplayed and you get people like "chavs" listening to it cos they think they are big american gangsters but thats around my area it might be different else where.
erkie said
if you take pride in your work, what other people think of it shouldn't be an issue.
like i said people may not like my songs but i do and thats all that matters

anyway as has already been said everyone is entitled in their opinion so everyone mayaswell leave the thread because i dont think this is going to get anywhere apart form people arguing and people shoating abuse at eachother all because some people dont like a certain genre.

BAL Ambi

At 1/4/08 12:57 PM, BAL-Ambi wrote: anyway as has already been said everyone is entitled in their opinion so everyone mayaswell leave the thread because i dont think this is going to get anywhere apart form people arguing and people shoating abuse at eachother all because some people dont like a certain genre.

It isn't going anywhere. I said this like 3 pages ago, lol. It's just an endless cycle of opinions being bashed together.

I'm confident in what I do. Anyone could be. That doesn't make them great. It took the motivation of other people to put me in the mind state.

That's called recognition.
In order to become confident in yourself, you require the skill and praise of others. It's not even about "greatness", because in this sense, you will define greatness as how one will contrast himself to the opinion of the listener. Notice that it's about how you feel vs what they think.

Now you're just taking shit outta context. I know exactly why I make music, I know exactly what I am doing.

I doubt that. The whole reason I took your sentence apart was to serve two reasons:
1. You ultimately do not control the means of your music making.
2. You will attempt to defend something that is baseless.

You want me to bring up people who are actually good on NG instead of the outside world?

Those are names, not defenses.

Among the littering of the ineffective "Hey, I didn't read the thread, here's my opinion" and technicality posts, of course it went nowhere. But valid points were brought up, and poetic-reven wasn't even capable of finding and responding to them in his own thread.

This goes to show how irrational people are in this place. Irrational because they are subjective, and their subjective nonsense clouds anything objective.

You're either two pages late or paraphrasing my "Objective/Subjective" post. Regardless of which is the case, nobody here seems to understand those two words. PTFD and the few who back his "rap suxx0rs i am teh greatest" comments tried to sound out the words and failed so they reosrt to a post about post count to give their words more merit. How droll, an attack at post count. I say any thread where a user makes a post count/batting average/user level/etc. post should be locked down and the offending user should be given a BBS posting ban, frankly, as those are failed attempts at backing "evidence" for a failed position in a debate/argument/discussion.

Thread dead, the haters will continue to surf our genre and do what they want and we'll continue to take it without resorting to doing the same in other genres. That's what it boils down to...

At 1/4/08 02:49 PM, Erkie wrote:
That's called recognition.
In order to become confident in yourself, you require the skill and praise of others. It's not even about "greatness", because in this sense, you will define greatness as how one will contrast himself to the opinion of the listener. Notice that it's about how you feel vs what they think.

I am confident in everything I do. I sure as hell have the skill to prove it and definitely have the praise of others.

I doubt that. The whole reason I took your sentence apart was to serve two reasons:
1. You ultimately do not control the means of your music making.
2. You will attempt to defend something that is baseless.

My music is what defines me. I control every aspect of it. And in you words, define baseless. I really dun get where you're going with that, so I wanna read in your own words what baseless is, and how I'm defending it.

Those are names, not defenses.

This is where you take the time of going to those accounts, and actually listening to what they have.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php ?n=2371306

At 1/4/08 05:24 PM, InGenius wrote: You're either two pages late or paraphrasing my "Objective/Subjective" post. Regardless of which is the case, nobody here seems to understand those two words.

I made my introduction on page two. Your's was page three, but I still agree with anything you brought up later. I'm willing to have a civilized discussion about the issue with anyone smart enough to defend it.

I sure as hell have the skill to prove it and definitely have the praise of others.

While this assumes two arguments; you do have ego, it is still ego based on recognition, and you require others to ensure it.

My music is what defines me. I control every aspect of it.

This is the egotist's premise, it looks great on paper, but then it all goes wrong when you put it before other people to judge, and consider it a leading factor in your creation.

And in you words, define baseless.

In my words? Well I agree with what the dictionary defines it as.

In this context, the genre you make music in and why it's being made, comes into question. The reason any evidence you provide outside NG doesn't count, is because it's not relevant, because it's not on NG.
What is relevant, are creations on NG that can defend it's own merit, which is why when I ask you for a defense, the only true defense you can give me, is subjectivity and the names of other artists. This isn't a proper defense. Hence, it is baseless.

(Let us ignore the attacks, the posts that are so blatantly subjective that they are not important to anyone) You, nor Reven, nor anyone else is able to defend the genre by rational means, providing not just musical or emotional evidence, but philosophical evidence.

The only thing I'm able to comprehend from this, is that you make music you either like, or it correlates "to your RL". Which is even more horrendous, because it is like the artist writing his own biography, and calling his experiences art. Yeah, that's what happned to the writer James Frey.
Poetic-Reven made this thread in a very one-way manner, perhaps rationality was cock blocked from him from all the subjective jackasses, but that goes to show how much effort he was able to actually defend his own work, he was able to deduct that people weren't rational, but only that, not able to defend himself.

At 1/4/08 06:59 PM, Erkie wrote:

The only thing I'm able to comprehend from this, is that you make music you either like, or it correlates "to your RL". Which is even more horrendous, because it is like the artist writing his own biography, and calling his experiences art. Yeah, that's what happned to the writer James Frey.
Poetic-Reven made this thread in a very one-way manner, perhaps rationality was cock blocked from him from all the subjective jackasses, but that goes to show how much effort he was able to actually defend his own work, he was able to deduct that people weren't rational, but only that, not able to defend himself.

lmao yea i kno ppl took serious shots at me but i back up the art that i d.
but as long as i proved a few ppl wrong i'm good. it doesn't really matter if ppl don't prefer it then they don't, i prefer all genres of music because each each can teach you something new or different

lmao yea i kno ppl took serious shots at me but i back up the art that i d. but as long as i proved a few ppl wrong i'm good.

You didn't.

You didn't really say anything actually.

Maybe if we gave Erkie some bad reviews he wouldn't be so stuck up about this whole 'it doesn't matter what other people think about your music so long as you like it.'

At 1/4/08 09:45 PM, Erkie wrote:

lmao yea i kno ppl took serious shots at me but i back up the art that i d. but as long as i proved a few ppl wrong i'm good.

You didn't.

You didn't really say anything actually.

yea here we go again well i feel like i did...so whateva mang

At 1/4/08 10:12 PM, DSMagnum wrote: Maybe if we gave Erkie some bad reviews he wouldn't be so stuck up about this whole 'it doesn't matter what other people think about your music so long as you like it.'

yea he's an asshole but he speaks the truth SOMETIMES!!!! lol but alot of us are assholes...so i guess you got a whole bunch of us in one :D

At 1/4/08 05:24 PM, InGenius wrote: You're either two pages late or paraphrasing my "Objective/Subjective" post. Regardless of which is the case, nobody here seems to understand those two words. PTFD and the few who back his "rap suxx0rs i am teh greatest"

i never said im the greatest i said actually the contrary ! LOL!! and u took it so personal! LOL!!!!

and after that comment im gonna act like an asshole again and im going to repeat that hip hop is pure bullshit and everyone who has a little respect for music itself shouldn't listen to it..and everyone that plays some instrument an know some theory and listen to it should admit that he has a really bad taste for music.

i don't fail...i just use common sense and im not searching in wikipedia the definition of every
word that ppl wrote here to attack them.

btw....u have only 5 posts..so ur not a reg ...so try to make friends not enemies...now go zero
bomb some1 n00b.

At 1/4/08 10:53 PM, Poetic-Reven wrote: yea here we go again well i feel like i did...

That's how some murderers rationalize their actions, they were in the right only because it felt right.

If you no longer think feeling you were right, was the right thing to say, goes to show how intellectual you actually are.

Maybe if we gave Erkie some bad reviews he wouldn't be so stuck up about this whole 'it doesn't matter what other people think about your music so long as you like it.'

No, because I wouldn't care, :p

At 1/2/08 09:33 PM, DSMagnum wrote: We you sure as hell made a big deal over something not all that important. I'm sure you didn't even read all of my initial post. And because you expressed your lack of knowledge, you fell captive to my trolling. Look where it go you. No where but off topic. Amazing what a person can manage when they obsess over a small matter too much.

LOL now you're calling it trolling. Interesting. Well I hope you enjoyed bumping this thread again to continue your argument with a lvl 7 user with 4 posts (now 5 ^^) who's apparently "taking everything seriously".

I need to be a reg on the BBS to know what is or isn't music? That's the stupidest sh*t I have ever heard. That's the child in you whining that your daddy can beat my daddy up. That's a b*tchmove beyond all others. Your inability to use reason and discourse amazes me. I'm tempted to see how many of your hundreds of posts were crappy whining and one-liners. I could have that many posts too if I went around talking crap on every thread I could muddy up, but all of my posts are in this one thread because nothing else on here piqued my interest. BTW, so you don't have to go use dictionary.com (how f'in hard is it to do that, really), "pique" in this context means "to excite (interest, curiosity, etc.)".

Frankly, if this is how the forum is run, I hope I never get to such a wild plateau as...wait, you only have 750 posts...and Erkle has over 3000. Does that mean you have nothing to say since he's got WAY more posts than you? In that case, why don't you shuffle off and troll someplace else, since you're own comments seem to make you look the part of the helpless n00b when we use your vague postcount theory on quality and knowledge. I hear that at the end of a trouncing like this one, I am obligated to say kthxbai.

At 1/5/08 12:17 PM, InGenius wrote: I need to be a reg on the BBS to know what is or isn't music? That's the stupidest sh*t I have ever heard. That's the child in you whining that your daddy can beat my daddy up. That's a b*tchmove beyond all others. Your inability to use reason and discourse amazes me. I'm tempted to see how many of your hundreds of posts were crappy whining and one-liners. I could have that many posts too if I went around talking crap on every thread I could muddy up, but all of my posts are in this one thread because nothing else on here piqued my interest. BTW, so you don't have to go use dictionary.com (how f'in hard is it to do that, really), "pique" in this context means "to excite (interest, curiosity, etc.)".

Frankly, if this is how the forum is run, I hope I never get to such a wild plateau as...wait, you only have 750 posts...and Erkle has over 3000. Does that mean you have nothing to say since he's got WAY more posts than you? In that case, why don't you shuffle off and troll someplace else, since you're own comments seem to make you look the part of the helpless n00b when we use your vague postcount theory on quality and knowledge. I hear that at the end of a trouncing like this one, I am obligated to say kthxbai.

my post count comment was something called SARCASM..u can search that in dictionary.com... =).

and u say kthxbye cuz ur posts are all flaming ones, ur out of words, and u hate that ppl think that hip hops sucks...just deal with it.

and yes i have some one-liner posts and a lot of really helpful ones..this is NG..and u have to take things with more humor moron.

At 1/5/08 01:52 AM, Erkie wrote:

At 1/4/08 10:53 PM, Poetic-Reven wrote: yea here we go again well i feel like i did...

That's how some murderers rationalize their actions, they were in the right only because it felt right.

If you no longer think feeling you were right, was the right thing to say, goes to show how intellectual you actually are.


No, because I wouldn't care, :p

what ever mang just leave shit be you alwayz tryna prove somethin....
and if your gonna judge any post to my intellectual status you don't kno nothin homeboi just burn in hell i ain't here to make friends muthafucker

At 1/4/08 01:18 PM, reaper-of-ratings wrote: perhaps you should have posted your last sentence first instead of adding to the fire and being a hypocrite in that sense.

and i dont mind adding fire - I'm not the one with a shitty biased opinion here.

HAHA
yh i said that at the end as i am not going to post anymore on the matter (with my opinion on the arguement)
dumbass

and yh maybe i reapeted it ...oh..wait

DID I OR DID I NOT SAY THAT I HAVENT READ ALL THE THREAD IN MY FIRST POST ???? ABOUT THE FIRST 3-4 PAGES!!! FUKIN TARD!

you know what knobneck try reading once in awhile it might get you somwhere.

btw....u have only 5 posts..so ur not a reg ...so try to make friends not enemies...now go zero
bomb some1 n00b. quoted from preffertobedead

WHO GIVES A FUCK HOW MANY POSTS PEOPLE HAVE GOT?????
THAT DONT MEAN SHIT
HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY HAVENT BEEN ON SHIT LOADS OF OTHER FORUMS
EY EY

CMON TWAT FACE
THINK ABOUT IT

SO I "NOW" HAVE 5 POSTS DOES THAT MAKE ME A FORUM NOOB I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY SO BUT NOW THINK

do i go on other forums ?...yes
do i go on them often ?...yes
am i respected by how many posts i have?...NO!

i am classed as a senior member on one of the forums i go on there are 6-7 levels level 7 being moderator only promoted manually to that level

so i have got 2 levels before highest that doesnt mean that i may or may not no more than a brand new poster...they might not need to go on any forums because they already know what they need to know

but just this once they dont know something

someone like wank stain here comes along and says "haha you only have 5 posts fuck off" thats pretty much what he/she said
now what happens...?

well one day there is something you want to know
and no-one but that person knows it for eg so because you told them they are a noob they wont give it you..

owell

tough shit

should think more carefully next time

by the way

i dont know why im even bothering with newgrounds its full of repetitiously tedious pseudo- intellectual sycophantic troglodytes. Fortunately, I'm not one of them.

SO UP YOURS YOUR ALL FUKIN MONOTONOUS CREEPS WHO NEED TO GET A LIFE AND DO SOMETHING ONCE INAWHILE!

HAVE A NICE DAY!...BITCH

BY THE WAY

The sooner someone gets pissed at Tom & Wade and sues their dumb asses for something, the better.

AND ONE LAST THING

those running the site are douchebags IRL. In fact, I bet Wade is a homo unwilling to come out of the closet, so he lives his sham of a marriage with his unwanted children. HAHA! Pwnt.

At 1/5/08 01:46 PM, Poetic-Reven wrote: what ever mang just leave shit be you alwayz tryna prove somethin....

Yes, damn me for having to make points about stuff, why can't things be there for no reason at all.

and if your gonna judge any post to my intellectual status you don't kno nothin homeboi

Pretty sure I know everything I want to know about you,
And it's pretty disgusting.

This is a soft lock.
Do not post beyond this point, or you will be banned. With a buffert of 5 minutes from when this post is out (posts will be deleted only during buffert time).

This thread went downhill pretty quickly, and I should have locked it when I could. This thread have gone way off topic, and is now a full blown flame war. That is not what this forum is here for.

Reven, you're warmly welcome to make a thread if you find that something is unjust or whatever future things you wish to bring up, but for the love of god, spellcheck it and cut off the gangsta way of typing if you decide to do so. It's extremley annoying trying to read when sum1 startz to spell leik dis n jus to prove dey hav so much hip-hop dissin-pointz in there rap-sack. yo. That goes for everyone on the BBS, of course.
But remember, first post (as in topicstarters first post) usually sets the level of the discussion.