At 4/19/09 03:48 AM, vdviking wrote: I must commend HeavyTank on his welcome to the newcomers, good work there.

Ok thanks, now, l have a(nother) question:
I heard a lot of times that the Vikings actually were the first to discover the Americas...l know that this is probably true, but l want more info..

At 4/20/09 08:09 AM, HeavyTank wrote:

At 4/19/09 03:48 AM, vdviking wrote: I must commend HeavyTank on his welcome to the newcomers, good work there.

Ok thanks, now, l have a(nother) question:
I heard a lot of times that the Vikings actually were the first to discover the Americas...l know that this is probably true, but l want more info..

The Viking's discovery of North America is in my opinion absolute, but whether or not they were the first is impossible to say. They were before Colombus, but as myths go it is said that Irish monks may have been there before the first Vikings.

Little background - Greenland was discovered circa 900 A.D. by, Gunnbjörn, a Norseman blown out of course on a trip between Norway and Iceland. 980 A.D. Eirik the Red travelled to Greenland when he was ousted from Norway because of murder, and in 986 he returned with a several ships and started a colony there. In the end around 300 Viking farms are said to have existed on Greenland. Greenland became Christian about the year 1000 A.D., and got their own bishop in 1026 A.D. It is believed that the last of the Norse colonisers were killed by Inuit raiders by the end of the 15th century.

North America was discovered by another lost Viking, Bjarne Herjolfsson, in the summer of 986 A.D., on a trip between Iceland and Greenland. Whet he found was probably the coast of Labrador, but he didn't go ashore. In the year 1000 A.D. Leif Eiriksson (the son of Eirik the Red), organised an expedition to the mysterious lands from Greenland. With him he took 35 men.

First they came to Helluland (Baffin's Land), then to Markland (Labrador). They sailed further south along the coast and finally arrived at was is probably Boston, Massachusetts, were they found both grapes and salmon (the northern limit for grapes and the southern for salmon is about that latitude). They called this new land Vinland.

After Leif comes home, his brother Torvald organises another expedition with 30 men. They stay in Vinland for 2 years, but travels home when Torvald is killed by Indians. Next comes another brother, Torfinn, who arrives in Vinland with 60 men in 1003 A.D. They built a farm in Straumsfjord (the S:t Lawrence rivers mouth), and stayed there for three winters, until driven off by hostile Indians. During one of the battles a Viking woman named Frejdis, scared the Indians to flight by pretending to sharpen a sword on her bare bosom. That's Viking style bravery for you!

That was the last colony, but hunting and gathering trips to North American seem to have been common for the next 400 years or so until the colony at Greenland died out.

In the year 1121 bishop Eirik Gnupsson went to Vinland to spread the word, he never returned.

Wood from North America have been found on Greenland, and Viking arrow heads and buildings have been found in North America, proving that Vikings were there.

A last little piece of info - the VIkings called the Inuits and Indians "skraelingar" or "screamers".

At 4/20/09 09:50 AM, vdviking wrote:
North America was discovered by another lost Viking, Bjarne Herjolfsson, in the summer of 986 A.D., on a trip between Iceland and Greenland. Whet he found was probably the coast of Labrador, but he didn't go ashore. In the year 1000 A.D. Leif Eiriksson (the son of Eirik the Red), organised an expedition to the mysterious lands from Greenland. With him he took 35 men.

Hey, Leif Eiriksson..l remeber that name...oh yeah!
I remeber watching a Spongebob Squarepants episode dedicated to him when l was a kid :D
Also lost Vikings make the best discoveries...

First they came to Helluland (Baffin's Land), then to Markland (Labrador).

Where the hell are Baffin's Land and Labrador?

During one of the battles a Viking woman named Frejdis, scared the Indians to flight by pretending to sharpen a sword on her bare bosom. That's Viking style bravery for you!

Lol...

Wood from North America have been found on Greenland, and Viking arrow heads and buildings have been found in North America, proving that Vikings were there.

Awesome

A last little piece of info - the VIkings called the Inuits and Indians "skraelingar" or "screamers".

heh

Thanks for the info!

At 4/20/09 11:24 AM, HeavyTank wrote:

First they came to Helluland (Baffin's Land), then to Markland (Labrador).

Where the hell are Baffin's Land and Labrador?

Canada, Look at the map here.

Thanks for the info!

Hey, we aim to pleace.

At 4/20/09 12:21 PM, vdviking wrote:
Canada, Look at the map here.

That's a pretty big world they got there...

Hey, we aim to please.

:)

Yay!We (me and HeavyTank) finished Viking (even if the final battle was glitched -_-).
It was a good game, and in the end you could see some stuff about Fenrir..now l know that he was imprisoned and then somebody released him, but could l have some more info?

At 4/21/09 06:56 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: Yay!We (me and HeavyTank) finished Viking (even if the final battle was glitched -_-).
It was a good game, and in the end you could see some stuff about Fenrir..now l know that he was imprisoned and then somebody released him, but could l have some more info?

Off course! You probably know that Fenrir is a wolf, and that he is HUGE. During the final battle, RagnarökkR, when he opens his mouth wide it goes all the way from the ground to the sky.

Fenrir is the son of Loki and the giantess Angrboda. The Aesir brought the wolf cub to Asgard, but became worried when they saw have fast he grew, and how strong he became. They decided to chain him, first with a "traditional" rope named Loding, but it was promptly broken by the wolf. To get Fenrer to agree to this they claimed it was all just a way to test his strength.

Second they made Drome, that was twice as strong, but that too was shattered by Fenrer. The gods became desperate and had some dwarfs manufacture yet another magical rope, as thin and smooth as silk. It was made out of the the heavy stomping of cats, womens' beards, roots of the mountains, sinew of bears, the breath of fishes and the spit of birds (thus explaining why these things don't exist), and was named Gleipner.

Fenrer became suspicious and demanded that one of the gods put a hand in his mouth as a ransom. Only Tyr was brave enough, and when the wolf realised he was caught he bit the hand off Tyr. The gods then took the wolf to the island Lyngve in the Åmsvartner lake, where they used two big rocks, Gjöll and Tvite, to fasten Gleipner far down into the earth.

Then when the earth shakes in RagnarökkR, Tvite is broken in half and Fenrir can escape, and runs to Vigdis, the battlefield where Einherjar, gods, giants and monsters fight to the death. Fenrir is attacked by Odin riding on Sleipner, but both a swallowed whole and killed. Fenrer in turn is killed by Odin's son Vidar who rams his sword down through Fenrer's gaping maw and straight into his heart.

At 4/21/09 07:33 AM, vdviking wrote: Off course! You probably know that Fenrir is a wolf, and that he is HUGE. During the final battle, RagnarökkR, when he opens his mouth wide it goes all the way from the ground to the sky.

Ah, THAT kind of huge...

Fenrir is the son of Loki and the giantess Angrboda. The Aesir brought the wolf cub to Asgard, but became worried when they saw have fast he grew, and how strong he became. They decided to chain him, first with a "traditional" rope named Loding, but it was promptly broken by the wolf. To get Fenrer to agree to this they claimed it was all just a way to test his strength.

Yeah l remeber readind that in a mythology book..

:It was made out of the the heavy stomping of cats, womens' beards, roots of the mountains, sinew of bears, the breath of fishes and the spit of birds (thus explaining why these things don't exist), and was named Gleipner.

EEEEEW!They made a rope out of compressed cats?That's disgusting!

Fenrir is attacked by Odin riding on Sleipner, but both a swallowed whole and killed. Fenrer in turn is killed by Odin's son Vidar who rams his sword down through Fenrer's gaping maw and straight into his heart.

Nice story, though l wouldn't recommend it for Bedite Story Of The Year..

At 4/21/09 07:33 AM, vdviking wrote:

At 4/21/09 06:56 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: a lot of stuff

Thanks a lot :D

At 4/21/09 08:56 AM, HeavyTank wrote:

It was made out of the the heavy stomping of cats, womens' beards, roots of the mountains, sinew of bears, the breath of fishes and the spit of birds (thus explaining why these things don't exist), and was named Gleipner.

EEEEEW!They made a rope out of compressed cats?That's disgusting!

Nah, it's not like they made it out of cat's feet, it's probably more that they took their boots away from the cats. Have you ever heard a cat stomp, no!, that' because the gods took that away and put it into a rope. Don't ask me how.

At 4/21/09 08:57 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: Thanks a lot :D

Not a problem. Not only is the Fenrer myth a favourite of mine, it is also one of the more central ones when trying to learn more about Vikings and their myths.

At 4/21/09 09:08 AM, vdviking wrote: Nah, it's not like they made it out of cat's feet, it's probably more that they took their boots away from the cats. Have you ever heard a cat stomp, no!, that' because the gods took that away and put it into a rope. Don't ask me how.

Yeah, but you said that that stuff doesen't exist (the bird spit etc.) but cats still exist!

At 4/21/09 09:38 AM, Leidolfr wrote: and its the same deal with westerners really, you shake the right hand because thats most peoples weapon hand.

Aaaah...they were quite smart..

At 4/21/09 09:13 AM, HeavyTank wrote: Yeah, but you said that that stuff doesen't exist (the bird spit etc.) but cats still exist!

What it means is that the attribute of the being doesn't exist. Women exist, but they (hopefully) don't have beards. The stomping of cats means the sound a cat makes when it lands from a fall. Since Gleipnir was made of this, the sound is gone, not the cat itself.

At 4/23/09 03:57 AM, Leidolfr wrote:
I just got unbanned like 10 min ago, so yeah...late responses

What did you do?

and also, duels were done, you would have three shields...and youd both start, and if a sheild got broken, the fight stopped...and they went and got another shield and started again

.......ah.

if all three shields broke, the loser would either be slain, or he had an option to, more or less coward out, and if you did that you had to pay a pennance, a whimp tax, if you will.

awesome

and also you haveto understand, once youre known as a coward in viking times....more trouble was coming your way. combined with this is their beleif that if they die in battle they go to valhalla, but if they die of sickness or age they go to Hel, where you just slept wraped and bound in cloth.

well l would prefer sleeping for eternity than eating for eternity..imagine how fat you could get...

:and the man refused, rode and met the men, and was slain ]

OMG...

I just found this really good internet source for the Poetic Edda, one of the most important sources for those studying Norse mythology.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2078358/The-Po etic-Edda - it was made by Henry Adams Bellows and first printed in 1936, but even if it is old it is still good.

It is readable on-line, or downloadable as plain text or PDF, although you have to register for free to download. It is in English and contains footnotes explaining passages in greater detail. Be warned though it is 410 pages, so don't go printing it out recklessly at home.

At 4/24/09 07:44 AM, vdviking wrote: I just found this really good internet source for the Poetic Edda, one of the most important sources for those studying Norse mythology.

Very nice

At 4/24/09 07:44 AM, vdviking wrote: I just found this really good internet source for the Poetic Edda, one of the most important sources for those studying Norse mythology.

Very nice, indeed.

It is readable on-line, or downloadable as plain text or PDF, although you have to register for free to download. It is in English and contains footnotes explaining passages in greater detail. Be warned though it is 410 pages, so don't go printing it out recklessly at home.

Hmmm, I'll have to (try to) read up then. There's bound to be at least 350 pages of stuff I hadn't even heard about.

At 4/26/09 01:18 AM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote:

It is readable on-line, or downloadable as plain text or PDF, although you have to register for free to download. It is in English and contains footnotes explaining passages in greater detail. Be warned though it is 410 pages, so don't go printing it out recklessly at home.

Damn....410?How are we supposed to read 410 pages in front of our PC?
After 10-12 hours you eyes will fall off :D

Not a problem. Not only is the Fenrer myth a favourite of mine, it is also one of the more central ones when trying to learn more about Vikings and their myths.

It's a nice myth but why Fenrir couldn't break that rope as he did before?

At 4/28/09 12:02 AM, Leidolfr wrote:

At 4/26/09 02:55 AM, HeavyTank wrote: Damn....410?How are we supposed to read 410 pages in front of our PC?
After 10-12 hours you eyes will fall off :D

so get this, about 5 minutes after I last posted...I got banned, and just got off ban [did nothing, as usual] so, thats why I havent been posting. I moved and shit too.

Well, it's a lot of stuff to read but if you do a break of 15 minutes every hour and you have the time, you can read them.

At 4/24/09 08:10 AM, HeavyTank wrote:

At 4/24/09 07:44 AM, vdviking wrote: I just found this really good internet source for the Poetic Edda, one of the most important sources for those studying Norse mythology.

Very nice

It's a nice place to see Norse things.

At 4/26/09 02:55 AM, HeavyTank wrote: Damn....410?How are we supposed to read 410 pages in front of our PC?
After 10-12 hours you eyes will fall off :D

I know, I don't like reading on a PC screen either.

At 4/28/09 04:42 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: It's a nice myth but why Fenrir couldn't break that rope as he did before?

I say as the RPG creators of yore said when they couldn't be bothered to make up good explanation - MAGIC!

At 4/28/09 04:50 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: It's a nice place to see Norse things.

And here's another great link from the Natural Museum of Natural History aka. The Smithsonian.

And here's something I've been working on for a couple of days.

VIKINGS AND THEIR FATEFUL DEATHS
The Scandinavians of the early Iron Age, we're calling them Vikings for short, believed that their fates were predestined, and that nothing could change it, not even Odin himself. The belief was that three goddesses called Norns sat near the well Urdarbrunnen ("the well of fate"), by the roots of the world tree Yggdrasil. Each of the three Norns was responsible for a specific part of a being's life. Skuld for the past, Verdandi for the current and Urd for the future. Sources differ a little; some say that they wove a tapestry over all life, other that they carved runes into wooden sticks ("runkavlar" in Swedish). Whichever, they controlled the fates of all men and gods, and presumably also giants and monsters.

This may be why the Vikings were risking their lives so readily, both in combat but also in exploration. It wasn't really anything they could do about their death, so why no live life to the fullest. But knowing when you would die was bad, according to the stories, especially in combat. If you knew you would or would not die in a battle this might cause you not to fight at the top of your ability, or for your life. The Vikings called this being "feig", in modern Scandinavian this has come to mean "cowardly".

Vikings were convinced that the best way to die was in battle. If you for example died by disease or suicide, you were taken to Helheim to a non-existence until RagnarökkR. Although there are stories about a Niflhel, were you go if you die in Helheim. If you died by drowning, taken by Ran or one of her nine daughters, you ended up in the halls of Aegir, which wasn't a bad place, but not as glorious as Valhall. So better to die in battle.

Before the battle, or as a signal to start fighting, a spear was flung over the battle field, promising all the fallen to Odin. One of Odin's attributes is the spear Gungner ("rocking"). Battle fields were often called "valplats" (possibly "the place of choice") by the Skalds. Riding all around the warriors were the (invisible) Valkyrias, looking for warriors whose fate was nearing, but also protecting those who should live past the battle. The dead were brought to Godheim, half of the fallen were given, but Odin had first choice, to Freya and the rest were brought to Valhall ("the hall of the chosen"), to feast with Odin. The fact that the love goddess Freya receives half of the warriors does clearly indicate that Freya's origins come from the Greek goddess Pallas-Athena.

Valhall is enormous, the walls and ceilings are made out of golden spear shafts, the roof of golden shields. On the benches lie chain mails instead of animal skins. At the end of the hall, on a dais, sits Odin, with the ravens Hugin ("thought") and Munin ("mind") on his shoulders, and by his feet lie the two wolfs Gere ("voracious") and the Freke ("the spear stabbing" on account of his big teeth). Odin never eats, and drinks wine only. The warriors, now called Einherjar ("of one army"), eats and drinks all night long. The meat comes from the pig Särimmner, who never runs out of flesh (or is killed to live again the next day). The flesh is boiled in the pot Eldrimmner ("blackened by fire"), by the cook Andrimmner ("sooty face"). On the roof of Valhall grasses the goat Heidrun from which udders runs four rivers of mead of the highest quality for the thirsty warriors.

It was said that every day the Einherjar practised their weapon skills, and if anyone were wounded or killed he were immediately healed so that he could go back to practising again. There is no telling exactly how many Einherjar there were, but it is said that Valhall had 640 portals, and out of each one of those 960 Einherjar can march abreast. That is 614,400 warriors in each row!

At 4/28/09 04:42 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: It's a nice myth but why Fenrir couldn't break that rope as he did before?

I say as the RPG creators of yore said when they couldn't be bothered to make up good explanation - MAGIC!

Thanks for everything. :D

At 4/28/09 04:45 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote:
Well, it's a lot of stuff to read but if you do a break of 15 minutes every hour and you have the time, you can read them.

If your eyes are still in place :P
And Vdviking, thanks for that article, it was very intresting.Questions coming soon :D

At 4/29/09 12:04 AM, HeavyTank wrote: And Vdviking, thanks for that article, it was very intresting.Questions coming soon :D

Interesting indeed. There was also a menagerie of facts I didn't know, but I'm happy to say I understand it now. I knew the basics, but more detailed sections, like the one on drowning, were completely new to me.

At 4/28/09 09:53 AM, vdviking wrote: And here's something I've been working on for a couple of days.

QUESTIONS:
Well if they thought their lives were predefined why did they even bother doing stuff?
Or they way the would die was predefined and they had to fulfill their destiny?
And isn't that thingy called just plain Ragnarok?

At 4/29/09 10:26 PM, HeavyTank wrote: QUESTIONS:
Well if they thought their lives were predefined why did they even bother doing stuff?

The Vikings believe that it was bad to know when and where they were going to die, since that might cause them to become cautious, or even overly reckless. Instead the Vikings went out on great explorations on the seas because they never knew when it was their time to go, so why think to much about it. It is pretty close to the Muslims' way of saying "by the will of Allah", when going into battle; if Allah decides it is the soldiers time to die, so be it.

To tie it together, the Vikings believed that their fates were predestined, but they did not want to know their destinies.

Or they way the would die was predefined and they had to fulfill their destiny?

Answered above, I hope.

And isn't that thingy called just plain Ragnarok?

I just like to use the Norse form. :D

QUESTIONS:
Well if they thought their lives were predefined why did they even bother doing stuff?
Or they way the would die was predefined and they had to fulfill their destiny?
And isn't that thingy called just plain Ragnarok?

I think they were trying to prove themselves as strong and big warriors.

At 4/28/09 04:45 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote:
Well, it's a lot of stuff to read but if you do a break of 15 minutes every hour and you have the time, you can read them.

If your eyes are still in place :P
And Vdviking, thanks for that article, it was very intresting.Questions coming soon :D

My eyes are strong. Thanks for it too :D