At 7/30/10 09:41 AM, HappyMango wrote: that wasnt why we're not friends. granted it didnt help, but i stopped being friends with him because he stopped wanting to hang out with me, probably because i was gay, and i learned from a friend that he'd been talking shit behind my back.

Oh, I see. Well, then he was a pretty shitty friend to have been talking about you behind your back like that just because you were gay.

At 7/30/10 06:19 AM, HungarianSupermarket wrote: No judgements from me, I know that feeling all too well. I wasted months of my life trying to work on a nonexistant friendship with my ex. And whilst I of course completely understand why it couldn't work, it really made me start to think differently about people. I don't trust people as easily as I used to, and I can't seem to let myself really let anyone 'in' and feel that amount of affection for people any more.

I couldn't get over my ex at all until about six months ago when my current-girlfriend started getting closer to me and we started falling for each other. I finally moved on and I'm now very happy I am. I don't hold any sour feelings against my ex really, but now I don't want to get back together with her.

At 7/30/10 05:49 AM, TheBigLemon wrote: I had an argument earlier today with someone who claimed that homosexuality is a choice. They kept through psychology, nature, and environments in my face.

Ah good fun!

My basic arguments were:
1.) "You're not gay, so you don't know anything about what you're talking about."

What a nasty argument idea. Best not to use this again. It's like my dad telling me "YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT FOREIGNERS IN THE COUNTRY, YOU'VE NEVER HAD TO COPE". I know more than him, just through sociology alone.

2.) "Your psychology and text books can say anything they want, I know what happened to me, and what you're saying is not true."

Same here. Fight knowledge with knowledge.

3.) "I'm the only gay person in my family."

How do you know? You said you were bisexual, who's to say none of your family nor ancestors had an element of bisexuality to them?

4.) "How can it be the environment I grew up in when I grew up in Texas, around people who still think that it should be ok to burn gays at the stake?"

I recall a quote from the film Full Metal Jacket "only two things come from Texas: Steers and queers". Even then, there could of been environmental factors. It doesn't have to be "oh, gay people are okay". It could just be your mother openly talking about how sexy a guy is or something like that. It doesn't have to be obvious to be nurturing.

It made me so mad. I realized I was bi at a young age, but I didn't ever say to myself "Ok, I want to like guys." A series of events led me to realize what I was.

Likewise really, in fact I sort of pushed it into the back of my mind. It was funny at the time.

I'm reluctant to come out to the rest of my family. For instance, my cousins (who are much younger than me) constantly bash on gays. Calling each other "faggots" and saying "You're probably gay. You're so gay." I understand that the word "faggot" nowadays isn't always synonymous with gay-bashing, but to them, it is.

I asked one of them why they can't simply allow a person to be who they are, gay or not, and he of course brought up the Bible. I didn't want to get into an intense religious debate with an 12 year old, so I left it at that, but I was livid. I walked away, and wanted to cry that someone I am related to could be that close minded. He himself, it isn't as bad, because that's how he's been conditioned by his father, whom I have an intense dislike, because he pumps ridiculous ideas of racism, bigotry, and homophobia into his son's heads.

Oh come on. My cousins are completely different to me to the point where I don't consider them even a relation. They're so posh, religious and, well, goody-goody. Things like one of them growing up being in the scouts and all of them being pretty damn Christian (it was an unspoken thing but I can pretty much tell). I'm shocked at how racist my family can get despite me being so open minded to it all.

Hopefully when they get older, they'll understand, but they're growing up in a very small town in Texas, so I'm sure they'll still be the same when they're older.

Who knows? They may grow some intelligence.

I may never let them know who I really am. It pains me, as I love them, they are my cousins, but... I could do without the ridicule.

You may never need to tell them, just because there may never be a need to. If you never get into a gay relationship that seems serious, there may never be a point/

On a less sour note, I came out to my mom, and she loves me as much as ever. We talked for a little while, and I gave her a big hug, and said "Mom, I love you, and I thank you for being so accepting. You don't know how much it means to me." I think she cried when I left (not sadness, tears of joy, that I'm being so strong and brave about my bisexuality.)

I'm glad that worked out really. I still lack the guts to tell my family at all about me being bi unless there's a good reason (e.g. bringing a boyfriend home who I have fallen VERY hard for).

At 7/30/10 10:57 AM, Lost-Chances wrote: I'm glad that worked out really. I still lack the guts to tell my family at all about me being bi unless there's a good reason (e.g. bringing a boyfriend home who I have fallen VERY hard for).

For God's sakes, wait until you're older. I came out at 13, and I had to go to therapy because they thought I was "confused". I guess they're right, but I come from an EXTREMELY Christian family. It's a fucking miracle they didn't send me to a 'straight camp' to go and 'get fixed'. They're still not convinced that I'm gay, even though I've only had one girlfriend my entire life. For one week. God, they're dumb.

At 7/30/10 01:14 PM, Scarface wrote:

At 7/30/10 10:57 AM, Lost-Chances wrote: I'm glad that worked out really. I still lack the guts to tell my family at all about me being bi unless there's a good reason (e.g. bringing a boyfriend home who I have fallen VERY hard for).

For God's sakes, wait until you're older.

Older than 19?

At 7/30/10 01:32 PM, Lost-Chances wrote:

Older than 19?

Wait until you're 35 big guy.

At 7/30/10 01:36 PM, Oliver wrote:

At 7/30/10 01:32 PM, Lost-Chances wrote:

Older than 19?

Wait until you're 35 big guy.

Wait until you haven't got any non-grey hair on your head.

I'm not gay or anything I think, I'm not afraid of being gay either like I would be ok, but I really wanna suck a penis. I wanna find a nice guy, someone I can trust, and just suck his fucking penis. This probably sounds ridiculous and not serious but I really am serious.

And yeah some people are raised to discriminate and it's lame and I don't know who to blame and it wouldn't even help to blame anyone probably and everyone gets raised some way and I don't even know if it's anyone's fault for the way they are there's so many factors involved it's impossible to tell. Shit man sometime sI hate the world and wanna be a hermit or something.

I really likes penis. Stuff isn't as hot unless there's a penis.

At 7/30/10 05:18 PM, Shikamarana wrote: loves cock

Sounds like you love penis.

At 7/30/10 05:18 PM, Shikamarana wrote: I'm not gay or anything I think, I'm not afraid of being gay either like I would be ok, but I really wanna suck a penis. I wanna find a nice guy, someone I can trust, and just suck his fucking penis.
I really likes penis. Stuff isn't as hot unless there's a penis.

Well if you are wanting to whack a label on that I'd say you are at the very least bicurious. Hit up your local gay bars, find yourself a cute guy and go from there. Best of luck on your cock-seeking adventure!

At 7/30/10 05:18 PM, Shikamarana wrote: I'm not gay or anything I think
but I really wanna suck a penis.

Aha. Well, as convential wisdom goes, don't make eye contact, make sure the blasss don't touch, and say "No Homo" afterwards. I hear those are the magic steps you must go through in order for it to not give you the gay.

At 7/31/10 02:09 AM, JohnnyWang wrote: Aha. Well, as convential wisdom goes, don't make eye contact, make sure the blasss don't touch, and say "No Homo" afterwards. I hear those are the magic steps you must go through in order for it to not give you the gay.

It IS highly contagious after all.

At 7/30/10 01:14 PM, Scarface wrote: They're still not convinced that I'm gay, even though I've only had one girlfriend my entire life. For one week. God, they're dumb.

I wouldn't be too quick to say that they're of that opinion because they're stupid. I'm assuming they just don't want to believe it because they don't want to deal with it. For someone who is homophobic, to have someone you're close to come out to you as gay or bi is going to upset everything that you thought you understood about the issue; thus, I can sort of empathize. That doesn't make it right, but it is understandable to me.

Just some food for thought.

At 7/31/10 02:13 PM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote:

At 7/30/10 01:14 PM, Scarface wrote: They're still not convinced that I'm gay, even though I've only had one girlfriend my entire life. For one week. God, they're dumb.

I wouldn't be too quick to say that they're of that opinion because they're stupid. I'm assuming they just don't want to believe it because they don't want to deal with it. For someone who is homophobic, to have someone you're close to come out to you as gay or bi is going to upset everything that you thought you understood about the issue; thus, I can sort of empathize. That doesn't make it right, but it is understandable to me.

Just some food for thought.

True, I don't really think they're stupid. I just wish they had been more accepting of it than they were. They still love me, but they don't want me to be gay. I guess I feel the same way. I never wanted to be gay.

i dont think, at first, people WANT to be gay. i mean, who would choose to subject themselves to ridicule and become a minority. not many, unless you include girls who say they're bi just to make guys hard. but what i mean is that after you realize you are gay, and grow stronger from it, you tell the phobes to piss off, and you grow stronger as a person. and you grow pride for what makes you different.

At 8/1/10 09:19 AM, HappyMango wrote: i dont think, at first, people WANT to be gay. i mean, who would choose to subject themselves to ridicule and become a minority. not many, unless you include girls who say they're bi just to make guys hard. but what i mean is that after you realize you are gay, and grow stronger from it, you tell the phobes to piss off, and you grow stronger as a person. and you grow pride for what makes you different.

It's not just that. Remember how I said I grew up in a very Christian family? Well because of that, I was basically raised to believe that homosexuality was wrong, so now that I'm bisexual (or at the very least, bicurious) I don't know what to believe in anymore.

At 8/1/10 11:36 AM, Scarface wrote: It's not just that. Remember how I said I grew up in a very Christian family? Well because of that, I was basically raised to believe that homosexuality was wrong, so now that I'm bisexual (or at the very least, bicurious) I don't know what to believe in anymore.

You just need to think about everything that's happened and think critically about all that you used to believe about homosexuality from living in a homophobic home. Do those arguments really stand up against what you are experiencing now? Consider that it wasn't your choice, that you clearly couldn't have been sinning due to the fact that it was and still is out of your control.

At 8/1/10 11:44 AM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote: You just need to think about everything that's happened and think critically about all that you used to believe about homosexuality from living in a homophobic home. Do those arguments really stand up against what you are experiencing now? Consider that it wasn't your choice, that you clearly couldn't have been sinning due to the fact that it was and still is out of your control.

I'm still not sure what I'm doing is right, though. Although I don't feel like my homosexual feelings are purely lustful, I'm still worried that if I embrace who I am, I'll spend eternity in hell. As childish as it may sound to be afraid of this, I can't shake the feeling that if I'm gay, I can't go to heaven. I don't even know if either of them exist anymore.

At 8/1/10 07:28 PM, Scarface wrote: I'm still not sure what I'm doing is right, though. Although I don't feel like my homosexual feelings are purely lustful, I'm still worried that if I embrace who I am, I'll spend eternity in hell. As childish as it may sound to be afraid of this, I can't shake the feeling that if I'm gay, I can't go to heaven. I don't even know if either of them exist anymore.

I can understand why you would feel that way, but think to yourself, why would God damn you to hell for something that was out of your control? I don't see how you can be held responsible for what was either given to you at birth or caused by environment influences that you yourself did not chose to be exposed to.

My personal opinion on the matter is this: if a god does exist, which it may, then what is going to matter to it is not whether you follow the finite details of the bible (if that is what it does expect, then everyone who's ever done a house chore on a Sunday is going to hell) but rather the things that you do to show compassion, forgiveness, honestly, empathy, etc to the people and to the world around you. Do god's work by helping those in need, resisting the influences of greed, being a positive influence of your community and by being honest to yourself and others and all of those other little details like whether your work on the sabbath, have a homosexual lover or all these other things will be absolved.

I come from a very Christian home, but not in the religious doctrine sense. My parents are deeply rooted in their spirituality and their connection with what they believe is God. They do their best to be the best people that they can, to be God's children to the best of their ability, despite the fact that they don't follow a lot of the strict religious traditions of the orthodox church. And then there's the pastor of the church that I sometimes attend who tells us that it's our duty to god to think critically about what we believe, marries homosexual couples in his church and who takes our youth group on trips to the Boston Science Museum to see presentations on the big bang and evolution (because he believes that the two - god and evolution - can coexist). So that forces me to think, how can these people who give so much to their communities and to their loved ones be scorned by God when they've dedicated their lives to the teachings of Jesus and the disciples?

What does it mean to be a good Christian? Honestly, no one knows. But, is it really holier to live your life consumed by a self hatred that stunts you from moving forward or to make peace with who the universe had made you to be so that you can say to yourself, "Now is the time to stop being concerned with who I would or should have been and start focusing on being the catalyst for positive change and for an expanding communal sense of compassion"?

Of course, this is just my perspective and I'm not trying to tell you what you should believe, but I just thought I would throw it in there for you to consider if you chose to do so.

At 8/1/10 08:50 PM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote:

At 8/1/10 07:28 PM, Scarface wrote: I'm still not sure what I'm doing is right, though. Although I don't feel like my homosexual feelings are purely lustful, I'm still worried that if I embrace who I am, I'll spend eternity in hell. As childish as it may sound to be afraid of this, I can't shake the feeling that if I'm gay, I can't go to heaven. I don't even know if either of them exist anymore.

I can understand why you would feel that way, but think to yourself, why would God damn you to hell for something that was out of your control? I don't see how you can be held responsible for what was either given to you at birth or caused by environment influences that you yourself did not chose to be exposed to.

That's the problem. I don't know if I can't control my urges, or I just don't think I can, or that I'm choosing not to.

My personal opinion on the matter is this: if a god does exist, which it may, then what is going to matter to it is not whether you follow the finite details of the bible (if that is what it does expect, then everyone who's ever done a house chore on a Sunday is going to hell) but rather the things that you do to show compassion, forgiveness, honestly, empathy, etc to the people and to the world around you. Do god's work by helping those in need, resisting the influences of greed, being a positive influence of your community and by being honest to yourself and others and all of those other little details like whether your work on the sabbath, have a homosexual lover or all these other things will be absolved. I come from a very Christian home, but not in the religious doctrine sense. My parents are deeply rooted in their spirituality and their connection with what they believe is God. They do their best to be the best people that they can, to be God's children to the best of their ability, despite the fact that they don't follow a lot of the strict religious traditions of the orthodox church. And then there's the pastor of the church that I sometimes attend who tells us that it's our duty to god to think critically about what we believe, marries homosexual couples in his church and who takes our youth group on trips to the Boston Science Museum to see presentations on the big bang and evolution (because he believes that the two - god and evolution - can coexist). So that forces me to think, how can these people who give so much to their communities and to their loved ones be scorned by God when they've dedicated their lives to the teachings of Jesus and the disciples?

The people like your pastor and your parents are the kind of people that I like. The people that believe in good morals and values, but aren't anal about every detail of the Bible. I am Catholic, and my religion is notorious for hating people who are different. As a matter of fact, it is Catholic belief that Catholics, and ONLY Catholics can get into heaven. According to Catholic belief, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, ect. are all going to hell, regardless of how they led their lives.

i think it would be funny if we got it backwards, and hell is actually the place you WANT to go to. like going to hell is the equivilant of what we consider heaven to be like.

At 8/2/10 03:02 PM, HappyMango wrote: i think it would be funny if we got it backwards, and hell is actually the place you WANT to go to. like going to hell is the equivilant of what we consider heaven to be like.

No. No it wouldn't be funny.

At 8/2/10 03:02 PM, HappyMango wrote: i think it would be funny if we got it backwards, and hell is actually the place you WANT to go to. like going to hell is the equivilant of what we consider heaven to be like.

Can't say I'd find it that funny.

well at least appreciate the irony if that were true.

At 8/2/10 11:34 PM, HappyMango wrote: well at least appreciate the irony if that were true.

I'm not even sure if that's ironic.

how is spending your whole life trying to avoid hell, when it turns out to be the good place to go, not ironic?

Hi, i've only really posted in here a few times and they were few and far between, but I wonder if anyone would be willing to offer advice, or moreover any ideas on something.

I'm quite certain i'm gay (i've had feelings of sexual attraction for males but never women). I've "known" for a few years now. I've even come out to a select few of my friends who I felt I could trust, and should know.

However, over the past few months, i've found myself thinking more and more, about telling my mum. There isn't really any problem there, she's completely fine with homosexual men and has many gay friends (she's even gone as far as saying to both me and my brother that she would have no qualms if either of us were gay). But I have no idea how to approach the topic.

There isn't really any urgency or anything, it's just something i'd like to do.

Additional, possibly relevant information

I'm 17 years old, male.
I live in Dubai, homosexuality is illegal here.
Me and my mum are very, very close.
She sometimes says things that imply she thinks i'm straight, talks about girlfriends etc.
I have one brother, older. He's straight as far as I know.

Thanks in advance to anyone thats willing to offer any advice or insight : )

At 8/3/10 12:27 PM, Sensationalism wrote: I would say something like:
"Hey mom, you know how you said you'd have no qualms if my brother or I were gay? Well, I am."

You could wait until it is urgent, but it just seems like you want her to know and that's fine. Do whatever feels right for you.

This, but I would wait until it felt like the right time to tell her, if you get my meaning. It's not something you say everyday, you know.

" Hey mom, I'm going out to eat, and then I'm going to hang out with some friends. Oh, also, I'm gay. Alright, bye!"

You'll probably know when the right time to come out is.

At 8/3/10 12:31 PM, Scarface wrote: " Hey mom, I'm going out to eat, and then I'm going to hang out with some friends. Oh, also, I'm gay. Alright, bye!"

But if I was a lesbbian, I'd probably use the line "Mom, I gonna eat out tongiht. in both sense of the word"

At 8/3/10 12:56 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 8/3/10 12:31 PM, Scarface wrote: " Hey mom, I'm going out to eat, and then I'm going to hang out with some friends. Oh, also, I'm gay. Alright, bye!"

But if I was a lesbbian, I'd probably use the line "Mom, I gonna eat out tongiht. in both sense of the word"

But gay is a bit more boring. "I'm going to go out, grab lunch and have some sausages, in both senses of the word".

Yeah, just doesn't work as well.

At 8/3/10 12:27 PM, Sensationalism wrote: Do whatever feels right for you.

I think this is probably the best way to say it really. It is probably much better doing something I feel comfortable with, as apposed to trying an approach that worked for someone else.

At 8/3/10 12:31 PM, Scarface wrote: I would wait until it felt like the right time to tell her, if you get my meaning. It's not something you say everyday, you know.

I think this is the biggest thing stopping me. It does seem like something thats relatively important, and should probably be treated as such. I'm ready to tell her, but I think i've either not been proactive enough in creating a suitable situation, or there just haven't been any. I kind of feel like i'm waiting on something without any ETA.

You'll probably know when the right time to come out is.

You think? I'm unsure. There have been a few moments where i've just though damn, I really want to just finish this, let's do this. But I always stop myself, usually because i'm either slightly drunk, or the situation doesn't seem appropriate.