What about the pastor in Florida who tried to have someone assassinated?

lol

At 1/3/08 09:52 AM, Pyrowman wrote: Ok, you got me there. But some of the things you mention, like killing gay people and stuff, aren't official rules of that religion. That's the difference between the religious and the extremists.

True that. But even then, I reckon there are proportionally more religious people who hate gays than atheists and agnostics who hate gays. I would reckon there is a strong correlation between religiosity and gay-hating.

Maybe I should start my own religion. That might kinda chill me a bit. My dad was saying 'you're really getting into this 'there's no God' bullshit, don't let it become like a religion'.

Although of course I see the question of God largely irrelevant to the subject of religion. But I do watch a hella lot of TV about religion from all the different aspects. I might try and re-focus back to watching documentaries on serial killers.

At 1/3/08 09:56 AM, Brick-top wrote: What about the pastor in Florida who tried to have someone assassinated?

lol

Ok, since Earfetish isn't responding to this totally ignorant comment I'll do:

Brick-top, you've just proven yourself worthy of yer name. There are tons of people trying to get someone killed! What does that have to do with religion?

At 1/3/08 10:35 AM, Pyrowman wrote:

At 1/3/08 09:56 AM, Brick-top wrote: What about the pastor in Florida who tried to have someone assassinated?

lol

Ok, since Earfetish isn't responding to this totally ignorant comment I'll do:

Brick-top, you've just proven yourself worthy of yer name. There are tons of people trying to get someone killed! What does that have to do with religion?

Actually my name is derived from a movie I really liked at the time just before the username lockdown.

I found it very funny, a man who's supposed to have "A superior morality" (because he's religious and follows absolute laws) is trying to get someone killed? That's funny, it definatly made me laugh.

At 1/3/08 10:55 AM, Brick-top wrote:

At 1/3/08 10:35 AM, Pyrowman wrote:

At 1/3/08 09:56 AM, Brick-top wrote:

Actually my name is derived from a movie I really liked at the time just before the username lockdown.

Hurray for Snatch!

After hearing Earfetish talking about leaving I think I might do the same.

NG is just wasting time when I could be doing more valuable things.

At 1/2/08 10:49 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Don't worry, you've helped me.
And not just since I've become a Dawkins fanboy level atheist either, mind you. Back when I was a Christian losing his faith, I quite often came here, and it really did help me. So don't think your efforts have gone completely unnoticed.

I never even noticed that you used to be a Christian, it's quite interesting looking at your old posts and old arguments actually, using the same arguments you must be able to respond to now. I guess you never really know what people are actually pondering the points brought up in religious discussion and changing their minds about it. Quite a drastic change of mindset. Were there any particular points you found overwhelmingly solid, for counteracting the 'I can't be sure, but Christianity is good, you can't disprove it, and I want to keep it' opinion? I'm sure everyone's heard the ones I think are watertight thousands of times.

At 1/3/08 10:26 PM, Earfetish wrote: Were there any particular points you found overwhelmingly solid.

I'm not really sure, but I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that I realised the only reason I was a Christian is because I wanted it to be true, and I made huge rationalizations to make it seem as though it was.
Once I got past this, everything changed.

liek omg 2000th reply ;p

At 12/22/07 01:41 AM, Earfetish wrote: And it is literally impossible for him to admit that religion has acted negatively in any situation.

People, not relligion has acted negativly, relligion cant act anymore than the color red.

Go on, admit it. Mick, too. You can surely admit that, at one time in history, out of all the examples atheists have provided, that religion has done one immoral thing.

Thats like saying water has done immoral things.

It's also mildly entertaining that I was ranting to SadisticMonkey on the last page about religion, particularly in regards to its falseness, yet none of our religious regulars thought to discuss my concerns and save my soul.

Your soul doesnt need saving, unless you did something like rape a child and are not feeling guilty of it.

Also if Islam isn't responsible for Muslim Radicalisation, but the UK is, then how comes it that they're more than willing to blow themselves up to take out other Iraqis? How come you've got two abortion doctors over 10 years on the Christian side, and countless deaths over a few months on the Islamic side?

Because my countrie is more tolerant than yours, but we are not perfect. There have been far more English terrorest than there has been American terrorests.

Are you saying that Englands society is not at all responcible for English terrorests born and raised in England?

And I call them English terrorests (who just happen to be muslims), but you call them Muslims first and formost.

But hay, if your countrie wants terrorests than continue doing what it has been doing.

I am also somewhat horrified and very concerned by Zoraxe's disinterest in the dangers of theocracy.

Im not scared of a minority in my countrie, but thanks, I will keep my head up if I ever go to yours.

At 1/4/08 03:22 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: Your soul doesnt need saving, unless you did something like rape a child and are not feeling guilty of it.

Oh well I'm fucked.

lol joking

At 1/4/08 03:22 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: People, not relligion has acted negativly, relligion cant act anymore than the color red.

Why do billions of people care about a small strip of land in Gaza? Because their religion does. Why do Catholic missionaries in Africa feel obliged to tell people condoms don't work? because of religion.

Thats like saying water has done immoral things.

Such a strong, false ideology. Water has done more good to the world than harm.

Your soul doesnt need saving, unless you did something like rape a child and are not feeling guilty of it.

I thought all I had to do was accept Jesus Christ. Where did you get your afterlife-specific information from?

Because my countrie is more tolerant than yours, but we are not perfect. There have been far more English terrorest than there has been American terrorests.

I think you're changing the subject here, from whether Islam encourages martyrdom to British foreign and domestic policy. It's a non-sequitur. Some of the Hadiths condone martyrdom.

And I call them English terrorests (who just happen to be muslims), but you call them Muslims first and formost.

How come it's only the Muslims who commit terrorist acts, and not Brits as a whole? What factor is segregating them?

Im not scared of a minority in my countrie, but thanks, I will keep my head up if I ever go to yours.

I think you should empathise with the people who have to live under those regimes.

At 1/4/08 03:22 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

At 12/22/07 01:41 AM, Earfetish wrote: And it is literally impossible for him to admit that religion has acted negatively in any situation.

People, not relligion has acted negativly, relligion cant act anymore than the color red.

Then why do Religious people say that good things are "An act of God" when the bad things are......?

At 1/1/08 08:37 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 1/1/08 03:40 PM, BreakingFaces wrote: (Hi there, I'm Sam. I'm agnostic not atheist but whatever, we seem to have mainly the same viewpoints.)

Yeah, this thread should be viewed more as something like "Newgrounds Secular society" rather than an atheist only club.
If you don't believe in god(s), then you're more than qualified to join.

Gee willickers, thanks.
How do I join? And also, I may not be that consistent of a poster, as in... I haven't even glanced at the page I'm posting on because I haven't posted in a few days :P

At 1/4/08 06:16 PM, Earfetish wrote: Why do billions of people care about a small strip of land in Gaza? Because their religion does. Why do Catholic missionaries in Africa feel obliged to tell people condoms don't work? because of religion.

Because of many factors that include religion.

Such a strong, false ideology. Water has done more good to the world than harm.

So has religion.

I thought all I had to do was accept Jesus Christ. Where did you get your afterlife-specific information from?

My own observations of religion and humanity.

I think you're changing the subject here, from whether Islam encourages martyrdom to British foreign and domestic policy. It's a non-sequitur. Some of the Hadiths condone martyrdom.

Why isnt it happening in America like it is in Briton and much of Europe? Europes spociety is a bit more Xenophobic towards the muslim faith than Americas. A lot of Muslims in Europe feel like they are not realy accepted in the land they were born and raised in, they feel they are others in society because of their faith. It breeds hatred in a group held together by relligion, terorests are a natural result of your people, as a whole.

How come it's only the Muslims who commit terrorist acts, and not Brits as a whole? What factor is segregating them?

Society.

I think you should empathise with the people who have to live under those regimes.

Im talking about Briton you hack!

Besides there can be moderate countries with a islamic majority but we need to stop currupt regimes and economic hardships and political chaos to achive that.

As I said before, radicle relligion is the result of politics.

At 12/22/07 03:03 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Using Zoraxe's logic, we can infer that all middle eastern countries and most of Africa just happen to have 'bad politics' that causes the normally peaceful Muslims to go bad. Hrmm.

Thats exactly right.

At 1/5/08 01:28 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

At 1/4/08 06:16 PM, Earfetish wrote: Why do billions of people care about a small strip of land in Gaza? Because their religion does. Why do Catholic missionaries in Africa feel obliged to tell people condoms don't work? because of religion.

Because of many factors that include religion.

Care to list the other factors? Is religion not more important than all of them? Are the other factors 'Britain'?

I can call this a victory, anyway, in that you've finally admitted that religion is a factor in the fucking-up of the Middle East, the creation of Israel, and the Islamic desire for the Gaza Strip.

Such a strong, false ideology. Water has done more good to the world than harm.

So has religion.

No it hasn't. What good has it done?

I'd like to say at this point that you could perhaps brainwash someone if you got them to read the right philosophy books, but it's SO MUCH HARDER and you're never gonna brainwash a whole populace

brainwash was used in its least offensive context

I thought all I had to do was accept Jesus Christ. Where did you get your afterlife-specific information from?

My own observations of religion and humanity.

ie out of your ass

brilliant

you know nothing about the afterlife, for all you know everyone goes to Hell, or nothing happens, correct?

Why isnt it happening in America like it is in Briton and much of Europe? Europes spociety is a bit more Xenophobic towards the muslim faith than Americas. A lot of Muslims in Europe feel like they are not realy accepted in the land they were born and raised in, they feel they are others in society because of their faith. It breeds hatred in a group held together by relligion, terorests are a natural result of your people, as a whole.

Actually if you paid much attention to what they were complaining about, they don't much like women showing flesh, and the materialistic and Capitalistic aspect of the West. As well as our foreign policy. They're completely accepted in British society; there are Wahhabbiist sects that encourage isolation and the creation of a New Islamic State that are causing the strife.

How come it's only the Muslims who commit terrorist acts, and not Brits as a whole? What factor is segregating them?

Society.

lol duhhhh

What FACTOR is segregating Muslims and not blacks or Indians? Man, you'd make an awful sociology student. 'What factor is segregating this group in society?' 'Society.' lol

I think you should empathise with the people who have to live under those regimes.

Im talking about Briton you hack!

And I'm talking about the Middle East. I think you should feel sorry for people getting killed for apostasy or adultery or homosexuality, completely in line with Sharia Law.

Besides there can be moderate countries with a islamic majority but we need to stop currupt regimes and economic hardships and political chaos to achive that.

Their theocracy is causing these hardships. Their countries have always been like this. It's like Britain, when it was a theocracy. People got killed because the Bible says so.

As I said before, radicle relligion is the result of politics.

*Radical
So what politics in the US are radicalising the Religious Right?

At 1/5/08 01:28 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

At 1/4/08 06:16 PM, Earfetish wrote: Why do billions of people care about a small strip of land in Gaza? Because their religion does. Why do Catholic missionaries in Africa feel obliged to tell people condoms don't work? because of religion.

Because of many factors that include religion.

You'd better be aware, I'm considering this lame-arsed response a victory.

I'd also like to know what factors other than religion are encouraging female genital mutilation. I'd like to know whether you think homophobia is more common amongst the religious than the irreligious, and your apologist explanation for this.

I would advise you to read 'God is Not Great' by Christopher Hitchens, if you want to read a few hundred pages completely disagreeing with you and giving example after example of religion causing grief.

fucking arguing religion with people who would never concede a point

At 1/5/08 02:56 PM, Earfetish wrote: fucking arguing religion with people who would never concede a point

I think Earfetish is broken.

GIVE HIM THE FUCKING ANTIDOTE!!

At 1/5/08 07:23 PM, Brick-top wrote:

At 1/5/08 02:56 PM, Earfetish wrote: fucking arguing religion with people who would never concede a point

I think Earfetish is broken.

GIVE HIM THE FUCKING ANTIDOTE!!

Nah it's alright I think I'm over myself now

I also think it's kinda necessary for me to have something fundamentally wrong with the world that I can complain about, and I think I'm on very safe ground with this. I've changed my minds about Capitalism, and I have a lot of complaints about the Government, but not enough about the System. Other than Religion.

So yeah, maybe it is fulfilling a need to rebel in me. But not against my parents or anything. I am entirely convinced I am correct in this matter, but I also think I'd be a little dead inside if I thought the status quo was hunky dory.

sheesh I do a lot of soul-searching and personality analysing on this here BBS. Obviously I have a few other complaints about the world, that I hope would really enhance its utopia-like status, like legalising drugs, especially all soft drugs, and legalising hookers and freeing up business a lot, but the real key matter is how to get parents to raise kids properly, and the best we can do is invest in education - I think education's marvellous, and it's a shame some of my teachers were kinda shit and the curriculum and the learn-for-exams attitude was shit too, because in retrospect I could've been passionately interested in loads more of my subjects...

but organised religion, that seems like such a massive, easy target. That looks like it might get toppled. And the world would improve.

so yeah I'm totally fuck the system I don't give a fuck, I think I've got to be

I'd be interested in seeing if Brick-top thinks Muslims are isolated in Britain, or have we kinda embraced them into our culture?

I was thinking recently though, it's actually a shame - well, I guess the smoking ban is the real shame - I would definitely think there's room for shisha bars and playing backgammon and what Muslims do in the evening, because there's really an oversaturation of pub culture. And there were quite a few shisha bars and a few proposed ones, in Manchester at least, before they brought in the smoking ban.

Curries and Indian pop songs are definitely largely integrated into our culture. Shilpa Shetty won our Celebrity Big Brother. Mosques are all over the place, and Indians work in all trades, although it is fair to say they're more frequent in some. I wouldn't think Muslims in the UK feel any more isolated or victimised than blacks in your country, probably far less so.

Hi guys. I am having a tough time at work right now. I am a Marine and my First Sergeant won't let it go that i'm an atheist. He keeps giving me books on the "scientific" proof of a god. Does anyone here know any good resources where i can get help refuting these ideas. One example everyone here must have heard is the second law of thermodynamics. That everything is decomposing into caos but for everything going into entropy then it must of first had a more ordered state. You get the idea. Any help on this?

Here is a passage from a paper on his website ("What Would Gandhi Do Today? Nonviolence in the an Age of Terrorism") in which he summarized his interviews with jihadists:

Rather than obey a utilitarian 'logic of rational consequence' these actors perhaps more closely follow a 'logic of moral appropriateness. ' Consider, for example, our recent interviews with a number of self-identified recruits for martyr attack from the Hamas Block at al-Najah University in Nablus (which provides more suicide bombers than any other demographic group of Palestinians) as well as a number of active fighters in Indonesia from Jemaah Islamiyah, Al-Qeda's main ally in southeast Asia, trained in Afghanistan, the southern Philippines, Sulawesi and the Mollucas. All were asked questions of the sort, 'So what if your family were to be killed in retaliation for your action?' or 'What if your father were dying and your mother found out your plans for a martyrdom attack and asked you to delay until the family could get back on its feet?' To a person they answered along lines that there is duty to family but duty to God cannot be postponed. 'And what if your action resulted in no one's death but your own?' The typical response is, 'God will love you just the same. ' For example, when these questions were posed to the alleged Emir of Jemaah Islamiyah, Abu Bakr Ba'asyir, in Jakarta's Cipinang prison in August 2005, he responded that martyrdom for the sake of jihad is the ultimate fardh 'ain, an inescapable individual obligation that trumps all others, including the four of the five pillars of Islam (only profession of faith equals jihad). What matters for him as for most would-be martyrs and their sponsors I have interviewed is the martyr's intention and commitment to God, so that blowing up only oneself has the same value and reward as killing however many of the enemy.

What may appear, to the untutored eye, as patent declarations of religious conviction are, on Zoraxe's account, nothing more than "sacred values" and "moral obligations" shared among kin and confederates. What Zoraxe ignores in his interpretation is the widespread Muslim belief that martyrs go straight to Paradise and secure a place for their nearest and dearest there. In light of such religious ideas, solidarity within a community takes on another dimension. And phrases like "God will love you just the same" have a meaning that is worth unpacking. What is God's love good for? It is good for escaping the fires of hell and reaping an eternity of happiness after death. To say that the behavior of Muslim jihadis has little to do with their religious beliefs is like saying that honour killings have little to do with what their perpetrators believe about women, sexuality, and male honour.

- Re-appropriated from another website

At 1/5/08 11:46 PM, pyrofreeze200 wrote: everything going into entropy then it must of first had a more ordered state. You get the idea. Any help on this?

It applies to a closed state, Earth is an open state with energy from the Sun, allowing for things like plants and animals to develop. I think.

www.ebonmusings.org/atheism

At 1/5/08 10:01 PM, Earfetish wrote: I'd be interested in seeing if Brick-top thinks Muslims are isolated in Britain, or have we kinda embraced them into our culture?

Do we have a choice to embrace them? Because I feel like a 3 year old getting pulled out the supermarket not getting what sweets I want.

But hey, who cares about opinion when you've got political correctness? lol

It's not as if they're wanting the blood of people when their Religion is accidentally insulted.......

At 1/5/08 11:56 PM, Earfetish wrote:

It applies to a closed state, Earth is an open state with energy from the Sun, allowing for things like plants and animals to develop. I think.

www.ebonmusings.org/atheism

I appreciate the site. It has been a big help answering a lot of the arguments my First Sergeant was presenting. He keeps presenting speculations on our incomplete knowledge of physics as proof that there must be a god. I keep trying to tell him that we just don't know everything about physics yet. Thats my main problem with religion. It seems to discourage scientific thought with the ultimate answer that god did everything and we should just be happy and try to worship him. Doesn't work for me.

Guys, you need to watch this. It's Unlikely Bible lines.

At 1/6/08 09:42 AM, Brick-top wrote: Do we have a choice to embrace them? Because I feel like a 3 year old getting pulled out the supermarket not getting what sweets I want.

But hey, who cares about opinion when you've got political correctness? lol

yeah totally, there's almost a forced embracing

I've seen a lot more discrimination towards Jews from the plebs. And I think the point is irrelevant anyway, because they wouldn't be segregated were they not Muslim, not that they're segregated now.

At 1/5/08 09:53 PM, Earfetish wrote: sheesh I do a lot of soul-searching and personality analysing on this here BBS.

ohh, ohh, Do ME!

but organised religion, that seems like such a massive, easy target. That looks like it might get toppled. And the world would improve.

If History has tought me anything, its that if something major like that seems likly to happen, the exact opposite happens.

The Treaty made after WW1, caused WW2, the Roman Empire becaume huge, it fell apart, the concert of Europe ment to stop the powers from waring with each other, to a point that even some people trying to make war illegal, made WW1 possible. the trojen war, cause the greeks to fall apart at the hands of barbarian Dorians.

So dont hold your breath.