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1916
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-05-29 23:52:10 Reply

Fuck, my copypaste failed a bit there. I'm so ashamed, I don't think I can go on...

FirstBaby
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-05-30 00:07:50 Reply

This thread, it's like a flamethrower next to a gasoline company.

The-universe
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-05-30 11:16:15 Reply

At 5/29/11 11:48 PM, 1916 wrote: Since you all seemed to have fun with the first one, here, have a few more. Straight from the head of Lumber-Jax12.

I think you two are getting out of hand.


It's not the lack of crimes that values your morality but your capacity for contrition.

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Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-19 18:06:48 Reply

1916 and Lumberjax are both fucking idiots, don't fucking do that shit and link it back to this thread, grow the fuck up, you're just internet arguing about religion

if you can't post itt sensibly then don't fucking post in it

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-20 13:59:04 Reply

So uh...
Can I join??


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Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-21 13:25:19 Reply

1916 is now banned from this club.

Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-21 13:27:42 Reply

For this whole thread basically but his comment to me was the icing. We really don't need people like that here. I'd much prefer it was a dead thread than it to be full of idiotic flames.

Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-21 13:28:44 Reply

At 6/20/11 01:59 PM, thetoker wrote: So uh...
Can I join??

And yes, read the first page.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-21 15:21:15 Reply

I actually have a friend at school who is a dedicated Christian, and whenever I ask him for proof of god's existence, he waves his arms around, which is to say that he is stating that everything in existence is god's proof. I then go on to ask him "What is your proof that god created this?" and he says "The bible tells me so." He is an extremely irritating person when it comes to religion.


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Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-21 15:27:53 Reply

The Christian God is right because the Christian holy book says so.

Harry Potter is also right.

therealanimator
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-22 04:59:19 Reply

I tried talking to my christian friend about scientology and other religions how they are linked to homophobia and well..I didn't come out as the victor.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-22 19:33:58 Reply

At 6/21/11 03:27 PM, Earfetish wrote: The Christian God is right because the Christian holy book says so.

Harry Potter is also right.

I really hope I don't start something that leads to internet arguing techniques and/or trolling, but isn't it circular logic to say that God wrote the Bible, and to use the Bible as evidence for Gods existence?

"How do you know God exists?"
"I would cite the Bible as evidence of that."
"Who wrote the Bible?"
"God."
"..."


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Scarface
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-23 00:03:22 Reply

I consider myself to be agnostic, in the fact that I believe there is SOME sort of God, or whatever you choose to call it, but beyond that, I follow no religion. I believe in evolution, and I don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory, but I think it's plausible. Perhaps God created the universe and just let things take their course, and so the big bang and evolution took place.

I'm not sure what I believe as far as the afterlife. I want to believe that there is one, but I think that is just fear talking. I see no reason for an afterlife to exist, but I see no reason for one to not exist either.

I'm just confused as fuck, I suppose. Just ignore my ramblings, I was just wondering aloud what any of you thought about my beliefs.

If you're curious, I was raised Catholic, but finding my sexuality to be....unsatisfactory to the standards I'm held at......shattered that belief.
Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-23 13:43:14 Reply

At 6/23/11 12:03 AM, Scarface wrote: I don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory, but I think it's plausible.

What's wrong with the big bang theory?

As far as maybe beliving in some kind of distant trigger god but not saying he cares about us, well it's pretty far from religion but I don't know why you'd find it necessary to believe that either.

I see no reason for an afterlife to exist, but I see no reason for one to not exist either.

That's pretty fair, but there are quite a few reasons why it wouldn't, If you believe fully in evolution then we're evolved mammals. Where does the line get drawn as to entry for 'the afterlife', whatever this place would consist of? Neanderthal man? Early hominids? Rats? Sea sponges? Carrots?

Another little issue is that we know quite a bit about the brain and death and how, when you die, your braincells die, and if they revive you after a while then every part of 'you' is gone for good and you're basically a body with none of what made you 'you' still there.

We also know that if someone loses the right bit of brain matter then they will lose things like memory (including of loved ones that you allegedly see in the afterlife), or personality, or sense of morality, or creative instinct, or anything that, or maybe a combination of all of them if their brain gets totally fucked over.

What, exactly, goes to the afterlife? It seems like everything that makes me 'me' is hopelessly stuck here in the physical realms, bound to earth, and when I die, I decompose. Along with anything that was in me. Just like a jellyfish.

I'm just confused as fuck, I suppose. Just ignore my ramblings, I was just wondering aloud what any of you thought about my beliefs.

I've no problem with them as far as seeing them as particulaly illogical or harmful to society but I'm sure you came in here to be challenged.

If you're curious, I was raised Catholic, but finding my sexuality to be....unsatisfactory to the standards I'm held at......shattered that belief.

Catholicism I see as particularly illogical and harmful to society.

Can I ask what you mean by this? It's the internet, you may as well tell the entire world why you disengaged with the church.

Scarface
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-23 15:35:29 Reply

At 6/23/11 01:43 PM, Earfetish wrote:
At 6/23/11 12:03 AM, Scarface wrote: I don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory, but I think it's plausible.
What's wrong with the big bang theory?

Nothing at all. There's no proof, though. Not that there's any proof of God, either.

As far as maybe beliving in some kind of distant trigger god but not saying he cares about us, well it's pretty far from religion but I don't know why you'd find it necessary to believe that either.
I see no reason for an afterlife to exist, but I see no reason for one to not exist either.
That's pretty fair, but there are quite a few reasons why it wouldn't, If you believe fully in evolution then we're evolved mammals. Where does the line get drawn as to entry for 'the afterlife', whatever this place would consist of? Neanderthal man? Early hominids? Rats? Sea sponges? Carrots?

I suppose everything that lived would be in this afterlife. I don't know. Perhaps there isn't one. Again, my fear of nothingness has me wishing for some sort of afterlife.

Another little issue is that we know quite a bit about the brain and death and how, when you die, your braincells die, and if they revive you after a while then every part of 'you' is gone for good and you're basically a body with none of what made you 'you' still there.

We also know that if someone loses the right bit of brain matter then they will lose things like memory (including of loved ones that you allegedly see in the afterlife), or personality, or sense of morality, or creative instinct, or anything that, or maybe a combination of all of them if their brain gets totally fucked over.

What, exactly, goes to the afterlife? It seems like everything that makes me 'me' is hopelessly stuck here in the physical realms, bound to earth, and when I die, I decompose. Along with anything that was in me. Just like a jellyfish.

Supposedly, in the afterlife, your "soul" retains all these memories, feelings, personality, morality, and everything that made you 'you'. Do we really have souls? Do animals? Do plants? Who the hell knows. I hope we do, for the sake of continuous consciousness.

I'm just confused as fuck, I suppose. Just ignore my ramblings, I was just wondering aloud what any of you thought about my beliefs.
I've no problem with them as far as seeing them as particulaly illogical or harmful to society but I'm sure you came in here to be challenged.

No, not at all, I didn't think anything I said was challengeable, but here you are. I just wanted to discuss what other people believed, and if at all possible, leave the thread with a clearer perspective on what I believe. I was just sharing what I thought, and wondering what others wished to share with me.

If you're curious, I was raised Catholic, but finding my sexuality to be....unsatisfactory to the standards I'm held at......shattered that belief.
Catholicism I see as particularly illogical and harmful to society.

Can I ask what you mean by this? It's the internet, you may as well tell the entire world why you disengaged with the church.

I'm bisexual, and that's frowned upon by the Catholic church, which somewhat turned me off of religion, along with the fact that none of it really made sense to me. Perhaps I'm just too skeptical to be a Christian.

Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-23 15:59:52 Reply

At 6/23/11 03:35 PM, Scarface wrote: Nothing at all. There's no proof, though. Not that there's any proof of God, either.

There's quite a lot of 'proof' about the big bang. Google 'evidence for the big bang'. Maybe a youtube video would be less boring.

On that topic, it's impossible to 'prove' that you're not having a hallucination in a mental hospital at the moment, or that our reality wasn't created four minutes ago by a beetle in another dimension daydreaming, but we know, really, that it's evidence that matters and you're not going to pay those ideas any credence. There's a lot of evidence for the big bang, and for the entire atheistic worldview really, not that atheist is synonymous with belief that the universe started as a singularity.

I suppose everything that lived would be in this afterlife. I don't know. Perhaps there isn't one. Again, my fear of nothingness has me wishing for some sort of afterlife.

It sounds like you know as a rational person that it's not actually there, but you still want to believe it. Death isn't something you should worry about. It gives life meaning. If there was an eternity afterwards it would be pointless doing anything with your decades here other than working for eternity.

However, I think my worldview leads to a greater appreciation about the value of moments and life as an experience. I made a nice thread about this once.

Can I ask what you mean by this? It's the internet, you may as well tell the entire world why you disengaged with the church.
I'm bisexual, and that's frowned upon by the Catholic church, which somewhat turned me off of religion, along with the fact that none of it really made sense to me. Perhaps I'm just too skeptical to be a Christian.

Yes. I think what matters most is that people have the ability to look at how a religious belief affects the world objectively and be able to condemn it if necessary, and for this not to be a big deal.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-23 21:04:10 Reply

At 6/23/11 03:59 PM, Earfetish wrote: On that topic, it's impossible to 'prove' that you're not having a hallucination in a mental hospital at the moment, or that our reality wasn't created four minutes ago by a beetle in another dimension daydreaming, but we know, really, that it's evidence that matters and you're not going to pay those ideas any credence. There's a lot of evidence for the big bang, and for the entire atheistic worldview really, not that atheist is synonymous with belief that the universe started as a singularity.
I suppose everything that lived would be in this afterlife. I don't know. Perhaps there isn't one. Again, my fear of nothingness has me wishing for some sort of afterlife.
It sounds like you know as a rational person that it's not actually there, but you still want to believe it. Death isn't something you should worry about. It gives life meaning. If there was an eternity afterwards it would be pointless doing anything with your decades here other than working for eternity.

I was too stupid to understand most of the video lol, but a lot did make sense. I guess now I realize why so many people believe in it.

On a side note, I was just wondering, not trying to prove or disprove anything, but; is there any evidence that God doesn't exist, or any proof?

Yes. I think what matters most is that people have the ability to look at how a religious belief affects the world objectively and be able to condemn it if necessary, and for this not to be a big deal.

I just hate the whole "I"m right and everyone else is wrong" attitude most religions have.

1916
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-26 23:42:09 Reply

At 6/21/11 01:25 PM, Earfetish wrote: 1916 is now banned from this club.

I've done nothing to warrant such action.

At 6/21/11 01:27 PM, Earfetish wrote: For this whole thread basically but his comment to me was the icing. We really don't need people like that here. I'd much prefer it was a dead thread than it to be full of idiotic flames.

I'm so sorry I didn't take too kindly to someone calling me a fucking idiot based on what you assume the private messages that we exchanged contained. I gave you the benefit of the doubt by calling you a troll, the alternative is raving mad idiot.

I didn't post his messages to insult him, in fact I tried my hardest not to. I posted them for humour, because they are so fucking ridiculous. And I've not been flaming anyone in this thread, I only did that to you because you instigated it. It's quite hypocritical to ban me because I didn't stand back and take your moronic insults.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-27 04:22:52 Reply

At 6/23/11 01:43 PM, Earfetish wrote:
At 6/23/11 12:03 AM, Scarface wrote: I don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory, but I think it's plausible.
What's wrong with the big bang theory?

Well, there's the obvious that fundamental scientific theories are always shifting around and changing to fit the observation better. big Bang is still a lot of speculation and modelling. But i don't think this discussion needs to be played hard, because it doesn't really invalidate the theory, if you allow theories to reshape constantly. (I've lost track lately, do we now still say oscillating universe or Big Freeze or whatever?)

But I do think we often tend to take science for granted. we think, because we have some formulae and some observations that the scientific path is the obvious one and believing in an entity setting everything in motion is plain stupid. But I wonder if everyone here can grasp abstract theories as evident? I'm still struggling with concepts as relativity. You can throw all the theory and formulas at me, but I still wouldn't grasp the idea that if i move, time is slower and lengths become longer or shorter. I live my daily life not getting in touch with that. Or all the things about quantum theory and collapse of the wave function. Can you explain how it is that measurement is always indetermined until it occurs? That while an electron moves, it doesn't have any defined speed until we measure it? Or that measuring 1 electron automatically pushes another in a state, whereas you didn't do anything with it directly (EPR paradox). You can throw any amount of theory at this and talk about non-local hidden variables and whatever the scientific response is, I would have a hard time to even begin to fully understand it. Even the concept of infinity is for us finite beings quasi impossible to understand. We never see infinity in our daily experiences and you might even wonder whether infinity is real, or if it's just a concept we conjured up to make the maths work.

When it comes to the Big Bang, try to make good sense of the idea that some point exploded and that with all that time and space came to existence, or expanded. Even with vulgarised litterature it's easier to accept that some entity exists that magicked everything into existence. The science is not solid, but it's easier to conceptualise.

Now, not that this implies that a deity should exist, but just that it is not so stupid that people choose the existence of a deity over abstract theories. Overall, we tend to take science for granted way too easily.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-06-27 11:05:22 Reply

random post that does not contribute to anything.

i used to be an agnostic. now i think i am an atheist because i believe in science more than anything else. the recent advancement in physics has led me to this thinking. we used to attribute things we cannot explain to the work of god, but as time evolves, we begin to discover more and more laws to explain those things, and it is very likely that humans will continue to make numerous scientific discoveries in the future. the pope once said that we cannot examine what was going on at the time of big bang because god will never allow us to, even with the general theory of relativity because of the singulary in space time that is not due to improper choice of coordiantes, but a real one. but there is evidence that by combining quantum field theory and general relativity, we can tell what's going on, and eventually discover the singulary is nothing more mysterious than the south pole of a sphere.

i think that our future has already been determined since the beginning of time. it just happens that it is impossible for us to predict our future because our knowledge is finite, resources are finite, and time is continous. there is no way of proving the theory though. just a belief. whether free will exists may remain a foverer mystery.

/useless post.

Yeah, I make no sense.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-01 02:00:27 Reply

Can I join? in return for admittance I can offer this interesting story :P

I got sick of the door-knockers trying to convert me so i decided that the next time they visited me, instead of instantly dismissing them, i would invite them in for coffee and 'light discussion'. She was kind of a sweet lady so i was nice to her and we debated religion. Didn't blow her out of the water right off the bat. instead, I made her like me and think she was somehow getting through to me. Anyway, after around the fourth visit I decided it was my turn to do the converting. After all, if they have the right to try convert me I have every right to do the same to them. The next time she visited we sat and had coffee, and I systematically broke down every argument she presented to me and presented my own logic and reason as to why she was wrong. After about an hour of debating, she renounced her god in my very living room!

I managed to break a Jehova's witness and I am proud lmao


Nihilism will weaken all but the strong

Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-01 14:58:28 Reply

I'm not sure I believe you tbh.

Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-01 15:21:28 Reply

At 6/23/11 09:04 PM, Scarface wrote: On a side note, I was just wondering, not trying to prove or disprove anything, but; is there any evidence that God doesn't exist, or any proof?

I suppose that would mean how you define 'God'. But, as well, like I said, you can't 'prove' that you're not in the Matrix.

If God is the God of, say, Christianity, then Hindus are evidence that this God doesn't exist, because they go to Hell for an almost arbitrary reason.

If he judges us at death, that's pretty far-fetched too really. If he made the world and designed us and knows what we'd get up to cos he knows everything and then judges us at death, that entire logical circlejerk is just too much ridiculous to handle. As far as evidence, I direct you to my other post on the afterlife.

If God is someone that responds to Earthly pleas for help, then he's probably more likely to exist than the previous, but there's still a lot of evidence that this God doesn't exist, like the fact that prayers don't get listened to.

For all of this 'personal God', there's the whole issue of a huge massive fucking universe out there, which is empty, and we just happen to have formed on one tiny little rock, and God's supposed to care about us, or designed this huge fucking universe just for this tiny little rock that makes up an infinitesemally small part of it. I mean, what's the explanation to that? We've found out that the universe is absolutely massive and all we know is that on one teensy tiny bit of it, there is life, and after billions of years of evolution, eventually something self-aware came out of it.

I don't really see why there is the slightest bit of supporting evidence for that scenario necessitating a personal God that cares about us at all. It certainly seems to me like a load of evidence that we are just a happenstance, that a massive amount of space and a massive amount of time eventually created something self-replicating, and then another massive amount of time and competition between these self-replicators eventually created something like a cell, and then more eons until five cells joined together - you get the idea. - and then after so fucking long we came along.... anyway.

As far as some form of organism that 'triggered the Big Bang', pssh. I don't think that's a God. We could do it by accident in a testtube some day. Maybe a bacteria in another dimension farted. Maybe it's like the end of Men In Black.

As far as I know, there is absolutely no reason to believe anything other than natural laws were required for the start of the universe and a lot of people who did all the work and understand the maths agree with me. They've got theories, I find them interesting but I have no way of expressing them other than pointing you to the internet.

I really don't even think that it's worth even concerning philosophical parts of a brain with whether some organism accidentally, or even intentionally, started the universe, if they just pissed off afterwards and played no role in it other than its birth. That's not a God.

I type a lot.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-01 15:23:38 Reply

And yeah, by 'more likely to exist than the other two' I mean 'still not worth paying any credence to'. Like, a unicorn is more likely to exist than a half-fish-half-unicorn.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-01 15:30:16 Reply

I thought I replied to you about death but I didn't apparently. I'm just gonna copypaste some old posts I made again because I've typed enough about religion (and at work) today.

When we die, our heart stops beating. This causes our brain to stop recieving blood and oxygen, and so our brain stops working.

Brains are pretty important. The whole conciousness, the whole unconciousness, the personality, memories - pretty much everything that makes us a unique individual is in the brain. When we die, this all dies too.

Unfortunately, we're just a load of flesh and blood and bones with various gooey bits. There's nothing intangible in there, there's no mysterious energy that carries on existing after death, and there's no evidence at all for it - there's flesh, blood, bones, goo - there's no soul, nothing supernatural. What's in us is almost identical to what's in a dog, or a cat, or a hamster, and is just a glorified version of what's in an amoeba.

When we die, and our brains have shut down, we stop functioning. I know it's pretty grim, but we just stop existing as a living entity. We don't float off to Heaven. Everything in your brain - that is, basically, you - withers up and dies, and your body rots.

If you're lucky, you've got a particularly comfortable coffin in a damp hole in the ground ready for you, not like you'll notice, being utterly dead. If you're equally lucky, your body will be torn apart by wolves, or sodomised by necrophiliacs - it doesn't make any difference, you're too dead to notice.

In short, the most important part of you is your brain - if there's anything like a soul, it's your brain, and that stays hopelessly stuck on Earth when you snuff it. What the fuck is a soul, and what does it contain, if the entire Human conciousness is in the brain? It's nothing. A soul doesn't exist. Get the fuck out of denial and admit that nothing happens when you die.

original thread

I've often heard it said that life after death has to exist, because physical law says that energy cannot be made or be destroyed but can only go from one form to another, such as electrical energy being converted to heat and light energy in your lightbulb, and therefore life energy can't die either and something must happen to this energy on death.

Yeah. Wrong. Life isn't energy. It's a lovely poetic use of science to justify religion, I'll grant it that much, but life does not fit the criteria to be considered energy by any stretch of the imagination. The live human body is a powerplant and food is energy, and eventually the powerplant gets decomissioned, and the energy therein stays within.

The energy in the human body isn't destroyed and it is converted to other forms after death, when your body rots.

Furthermore, and more to the point, if you want to say "energy can't be created or destroyed" and equate life with energy, what do you call the life in a newborn baby or a newly replicated amoeba, which surely just got created, and energy can't be created. Unless you're Buddhist and you reckon that it's a big cycle of life forces flowing in and out of amoebas.

Nope, doesn't work. Life is not energy, and therefore you can't use that as an argument from now on.

And on the same kind of vein, when people say "there's an opposite to everything, there's North and South and there's the natural and the supernatural - HMMM no - fantasy is the opposite of reality and fantasy doesn't exist in any tangible form, but reality does, and it's the same fucking thing. To say there needs to be an opposite to the natural and that's God and ghosts and immortality - y'know it's a real stretch of the imagination, and even to say everything has an opposite - there isn't an opposite of 'central', and if you want to continue logical progressions, if I say that everything exists in the natural world, then in the opposite world that is supernatural, nothing exists.

And if there is a supernatural, and everyone lives forever, and you've erased 'death', what the fuck is the opposite of 'life'?

But to use 'everything has an opposite' as an argument is shitty anyway. There's no sense behind it. Everything doesn't have an opposite. Actual things like 'table' and 'apple' and things in the actual physical world, don't (unless it's a 'superapple' angels eat). Therefore, neither does the physical world.

original thread

Sorry to copypaste old threads I made like that, but y'know what it's like. You came in her very nicely and I want to answer your questions but look how many character's I would've had to type to do so.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-01 17:33:20 Reply

At 7/1/11 02:58 PM, Earfetish wrote: I'm not sure I believe you tbh.

To be fair, I probably wouldn't believe the story if I'd have just read it. Not much I can do really to prove it so I guess it's up to you to decide lol


Nihilism will weaken all but the strong

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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-01 17:41:05 Reply

At 7/1/11 02:00 AM, NeuroDougal wrote:

You're an asshole.

NeuroDougal
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-02 15:50:53 Reply

At 7/1/11 05:41 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:
At 7/1/11 02:00 AM, NeuroDougal wrote:
You're an asshole.

Before I begin to defend myself could you please clarify your reasons for the remark. You never know, I may actually agree with you lol


Nihilism will weaken all but the strong

MultiCanimefan
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-02 16:15:36 Reply

At 7/2/11 03:50 PM, NeuroDougal wrote:
At 7/1/11 05:41 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:
At 7/1/11 02:00 AM, NeuroDougal wrote:
You're an asshole.
Before I begin to defend myself could you please clarify your reasons for the remark. You never know, I may actually agree with you lol

Sorry for that, I don't mean it. Well I mean you didn't have to do that to the woman, that always just really bothered me for some reason, moreso than the converters themselves. Deconversion is something someone should do on their own, not ruthlessly beaten over the head with. It's not like she was about to burn you at the stake, bro.

Earfetish
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Response to The Atheist Army 2011-07-03 06:00:32 Reply

but religion is wrong and it's fine to be an atheist

what if, if she hadn't been forcibly deconverted through patient discource, and then she gets a blood disease that requires a transfusion, which she rejects cos she's a jehova's witness

like you could've saved her life and you've at least saved her time every Sunday, also she's not annoying others with her bullshit