im sorry, i misnamed the one who quoted that "turn your cheek" thing. It was Balto-boy. To reiterate, how ironic indeed. Also, sorry Draconis for naming the wrong name.

the problem is that too many people take coincidences for miracles and then go and say that god did this or god did that, then well... you know what carries on from there. shit gets blown way out of proportion.

What you are doing is basically like what Hitler did to the Jews. Also, just in case you didn't know, Hitler was a Catholic. I researched this

you know what is also ironic, hitler was part jew, and he hid all the files related to his family tree so no one would know, pretty sad huh...

i have a friend who is christian, she has talked to me about how i might be damned to hell and all this crap, and on several occasions ive tried to get her to understand logic and how god and the devil and everything "magical" just cant exist, yet she still insists that there is a god. she says that the bible proves it all, and that science backs up her belief, by saying that there might have been a jesus of nazareth. even if there was, that doesnt prove he was magical, i mean he could have been an illusionist or possibly crazy, along with everybody else of that time. what is it about religious people that makes them so stubborn? just like with the greek myths and mythology, there were great commanders and generals who had stories made of them, and as they got passed along they got more and more fictitious and unrealistic, the same thing could have happened with all religions, people just dont want to accept the fact that they are just gonna rot in teh ground when they die. and they consider worldy pleasures "sin", when it has been proven that these urges are completely natural, except for those murderers, they are just crazy. then they use these "sins" to threaten people by saying they will suffer eternally in hell unless they join that religion and miss out on the joys of life. christians say treat every one equally and honor others and blah blah blah, then you see in the news these sick ass priests molesting little boys, nothing but hypocrytical bullcrap!

"

yours a bunch of sinners god will pwnzor yours with teh lighting

At 9/19/07 07:42 AM, Kreen wrote: yours a bunch of sinners god will pwnzor yours with teh lighting

That's ok, if your touching an outlet when it happens...FREE ELECTRICITY! lol no

And most lightning doesn't have enough amps to kill you.

these are your problems you are talking about cruel men. Men who were leaders to their people. Just because Hitler was Catholic doesnt mean anything the whole religion is evil. right now you are just picking up dirt to make a certain religion look bad.

Also for the other one; you are talking about a time before the enlightenment, a time were nothing was questioned, so these rulers used what the masses would follow, and took advantage of it. You should blame the evil men and women who governed their people in that time period.

At 9/19/07 05:36 PM, OrangeBase wrote: You should blame the evil men and women who governed their people in that time period.

And what about sectarianism in Glasgow or Iraq?

At 9/19/07 07:42 AM, Kreen wrote: yours a bunch of sinners god will pwnzor yours with teh lighting

And you're a jackass who should shut up and should show respect for other peoples beliefs. Jackass.

At 9/19/07 06:05 PM, Earfetish wrote:

At 9/19/07 05:36 PM, OrangeBase wrote: You should blame the evil men and women who governed their people in that time period.

And what about sectarianism in Glasgow or Iraq?

Ha! I had a talk about the religious problems against the Celts and Rangers. God must of done it lol

At 9/19/07 08:33 PM, Potempkin wrote:

At 9/19/07 07:42 AM, Kreen wrote: yours a bunch of sinners god will pwnzor yours with teh lighting

The LIGHTING you say? Are our electric bulbs going to explode and we will get impaled by shards of glass, then?

I made fun of his spelling error!

You deserve hugs.....or a free happy meal. I cannot believe I didn't see that.

At 9/19/07 02:03 AM, cabosetek wrote: hey guys and gals. Sorry for not being on for a while. Anyway, i've caught up with what has been going on. I have to say, WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU DOING HERE!!! I'm talking to you Draconis and Balto-boy. None of us go to your forums and flame you. In fact, I even went to the Catholic Club and asked them very politely, (as in no flames, no offence, nothing that would warrant a flame at all), to make sure that none of their guys come and flame us. And don't try to say that you're "defending" yourselves. Um, what!? Like I said, no one here ever did anything to you. You want us to stop trolling on your forums and respect you, fine.

First off, I'm not part of any religious club on NG. Second, I was trying to do what the Bible says to do: spread His word. What I was trying to avoid similtaneously is people feeling as though they were being nagged into the belief and, as such, would decide to hate God. However, I can see that no one here is willing to listen. I guess that I should've known as much. If you refuse to listen to the good news, then have it your way (of course, that doesn't mean I won't pop in from time to time :D). The only real thing I can ask right now is to at least give Him a chance. Live with Him for a month or some certain period of time and see what happens.

But you have to give it us first. We atheists are tolerant of your beliefs.

I was trying to be tolerant. Also, that last sentence is a statement that I disagree with, at least as far as Newgrounds goes.

At 9/19/07 10:35 PM, balto-boy wrote:

First off, I'm not part of any religious club on NG. Second, I was trying to do what the Bible says to do: spread His word. What I was trying to avoid similtaneously is people feeling as though they were being nagged into the belief and, as such, would decide to hate God. However, I can see that no one here is willing to listen. I guess that I should've known as much. If you refuse to listen to the good news, then have it your way (of course, that doesn't mean I won't pop in from time to time :D). The only real thing I can ask right now is to at least give Him a chance. Live with Him for a month or some certain period of time and see what happens.

First off, many here used to be christians, myself included. I think 13 years is a good amount of time to spend with god, and to tell the truth, it felt uncomfortable, sort of like I was a slave. I was serving a god, because my mother did(not like i was forced into it, she let me have religious freedom.(tho, apparently, atheism wasn't on her list of what's acceptable, she neglected to tell me, could have been any other belief, so long as it was good and spiritual) but regardless, I did as she did, because she was my mother, she was christian, everyone else was christian, and at that age, it made sense, so i was christian, but I wasn't sure why, I was believing in some god, but I didn't know why, I read the bible, but it didn't make sense, and sounded like fiction, and eventually, when I got older, I identified things I hated about it. My uncle was gay, my aunt a lesbian, according to the bible, such people go to hell, and that's just one example among many.

Now, I don't mind you following the belief, but whoever put "try and get as many people into your belief as possible" in the good book was an idiot. Religion isn't really pure if it becomes a trend, now is it? Then it's just people following because everyone else does, and they're expected to, thus has become of christianity. I appreciate that you are not trying to shove your beliefs down our throats, but you must understand, many of us it's a one way street, we're dead set in our path, just as you're dead set in yours. If god is truly merciful, he'll forgive us anyway, right? So long as we don't murder or rape anyway? Tho, I don't think any good god would demand to be worshipped or else. Whenever a human being does that, we label him insain, and narcissistic. But, anyway, back to the point, glad you're not trying to shove your beliefs on us, but you must understand, we're really not interested in changing our minds on this. And most dislike christianity(though I personally am not fond of the religion, but am tolerant of it's followers)

To reply to cabosetek, all that Balto-Boy and I were doing is adding a counterpoint in the hopes of gaining a better understanding of your viewpoint, as a philosophical discussion, not trying to flame anybody in any way. I hereby extend the sincerest of apologies if we have offended anyone, but personally, the pair of us felt likewise a little offended that we were to begin with nto given an equal opportunity to provide a counterpoint in level, mature terms.

Now, I'm not saying what we did was right, but in a sense, it's all a case of viewpoints. Your viewpoint seemed a bit aggressive to us, so we tried to provide our counterpoint. Just to make this a bit more equal. However, if you dislike this, then kindly send us a PM next time politely asking us to cease with this, and it'll be dropped, no questions asked. However, by the title you've chosen, it's kinda hard to not expect people to try and see how they fare in debate over religion or lack thereof against you, so maybe an explanation of what the thread's here for would be in order.

In addition, to be honest and fair, I have no problem with you guys at all, but just got compelled into providing a counterpoint, as I was uncertain of the thread's purpose. And if you wish to flame or blam, pleas epolitely explain why. I'm sure that we have enough honour and respect for that.

At 9/20/07 05:20 AM, OPIUMSKUM wrote:
First off, many here used to be christians, myself included. I think 13 years is a good amount of time to spend with god, and to tell the truth, it felt uncomfortable, sort of like I was a slave. I was serving a god, because my mother did(not like i was forced into it, she let me have religious freedom.(tho, apparently, atheism wasn't on her list of what's acceptable, she neglected to tell me, could have been any other belief, so long as it was good and spiritual) but regardless, I did as she did, because she was my mother, she was christian, everyone else was christian, and at that age, it made sense, so i was christian, but I wasn't sure why, I was believing in some god, but I didn't know why, I read the bible, but it didn't make sense, and sounded like fiction, and eventually, when I got older, I identified things I hated about it. My uncle was gay, my aunt a lesbian, according to the bible, such people go to hell, and that's just one example among many.

Well, mainly you were just doing as told. If you wish to serve God, it should be for you, not for anyone else. It's something that a lot of people forget these days. I personally have only been a hardcore Jesus Freak for the last 2 years, and befor ethat felt overshadowed by my sister and parents, but I never deny my faith.

At 9/20/07 08:14 AM, WeissDraconis wrote: To reply to cabosetek, all that Balto-Boy and I were doing is adding a counterpoint in the hopes of gaining a better understanding of your viewpoint, as a philosophical discussion, not trying to flame anybody in any way.

You are such a piss poor liar.

I hereby extend the sincerest of apologies if we have offended anyone, but personally, the pair of us felt likewise a little offended that we were to begin with nto given an equal opportunity to provide a counterpoint in level, mature terms.

If you wanted an equal counterpoint and good discussion, you would've went to the political forum. Not come here. Both of you were being just as offensive and agressive as we were.

Now, I'm not saying what we did was right, but in a sense, it's all a case of viewpoints. Your viewpoint seemed a bit aggressive to us, so we tried to provide our counterpoint. Just to make this a bit more equal.

Again you should of gone to Politics, not come here. You don't go into a movie club and say "Movies are shit, discuss"

More stuff that says the same.

Look, you came here insulting our beliefs. Even if you didn't realise it. I fucking got a membership with Christianity.com to do what you are doing now. But I was asking questions, not forcing my beliefs in any way. I told them who I was and what I was doing in the nicest way possible, and I got more agression from them than you got from us. I didn't even ask anything that questioned the Bible. And I learned, if you want to do that shit. Do where bot parties are willing to participate.

And our club is here so Atheists can discuss their viewpoint to other Athesits. If it wasn't it would be called Atheist/Religious discussion club

This might be fun to join.

"Religion is for those who cannot think on their own."

At 9/20/07 03:36 PM, TitanRoller wrote: This might be fun to join.

"Religion is for those who cannot think on their own."

Essentially it is. But it can be the same for Atheists. It all depends on the origions of what you believe.

At 9/20/07 10:11 AM, Brick-top wrote:

You are such a piss poor liar.

I would have called that diplomatic, and besides, considering you have no grounds that I was lying, it's a plain flame to just call me that for uttering an apology.

If you wanted an equal counterpoint and good discussion, you would've went to the political forum. Not come here. Both of you were being just as offensive and agressive as we were.

Had I known of this as a political issue, I would have staged it there. Again, sincere apologies for this.

Again you should of gone to Politics, not come here. You don't go into a movie club and say "Movies are shit, discuss"

True, but neither do you just say "Movies are the best, discuss." There's multiple facets to any religion.

Look, you came here insulting our beliefs. Even if you didn't realise it. I fucking got a membership with Christianity.com to do what you are doing now. But I was asking questions, not forcing my beliefs in any way. I told them who I was and what I was doing in the nicest way possible, and I got more agression from them than you got from us. I didn't even ask anything that questioned the Bible. And I learned, if you want to do that shit. Do where bot parties are willing to participate.

And our club is here so Atheists can discuss their viewpoint to other Athesits. If it wasn't it would be called Atheist/Religious discussion club

Again, with my last remark being an official apology to the entire club for our offensive conduct, calling me a liar for apologising is very offensive. Considering I'm trying to stop the trouble, you seem quite happy to escalate it. I appreciate the explanation of the purpose of the club, however, there was no need to call me a liar, nor was there need to use coarse language to explain yourself.

All we were doing was essentially the same thing, but we went about it incorrectly. To appease you, I believe that I will set up such a thread in the Politics section, and Balto-Boy and I shall leave the Atheist army well enough alone as of now. Any further problems with this, just PM me.

i can honestly say it feels good to have scared the bible thumpers from our forum. (also, i may have misused the term, thumpers, and i'll be glad no who it applies to.)

At 9/20/07 06:51 PM, cabosetek wrote: i can honestly say it feels good to have scared the bible thumpers from our forum. (also, i may have misused the term, thumpers, and i'll be glad no who it applies to.)

I was only trying to apologise, and have only come to show the term of appeasement, that this thread in the Politics section is where any religious debate can ensue, provided it does not degenerate into insults. Again, I utter apologies for our conduct on your thread.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7803 46

If there are any people who wish for a mature discussion of differing religious beliefs, that thread's the place to do it. Again, sorry for the problems, and this final message.

At 9/20/07 07:06 PM, WeissDraconis wrote:

If there are any people who wish for a mature discussion of differing religious beliefs, that thread's the place to do it. Again, sorry for the problems, and this final message.

ya, "mature"

Man, I hope we dont get any more religious people in here bitchin about how we dont believe in religion, those people really pissed me off.

At 9/20/07 07:06 PM, WeissDraconis wrote:

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7803 46

When someone tells you to fuck off you don't stand there and say sorry constantly, you leave and that's that over with. And not to mention that all your posts are in this thread I'm not surprised people (including me) and being offensive. So stop apologising and keep out. Also that link is either broken or it got deleted.

I'm agnostic....How did we all get here without a god??? I'm positive evolution is complete bullshit. But the bible contradicts itself so many times...God is supposed to be "all knowing" and yet he took everything away from Job to test wether or not he was truely faithful. Not to mention...why would he ''test'' us all on Earth to see if we needed to get into heaven. Religion is just a way to get everyone to act "correctly"

At 9/20/07 09:20 PM, anime-man10 wrote: I'm agnostic....How did we all get here without a god???

By sheer luck. By random events. By chaotic scenarios that took place billions of years ago.

At 9/20/07 09:20 PM, anime-man10 wrote: I'm agnostic....How did we all get here without a god??? I'm positive evolution is complete bullshit. But the bible contradicts itself so many times...God is supposed to be "all knowing" and yet he took everything away from Job to test wether or not he was truely faithful. \

First off, that bit on Job is a COMPLETE misquote. That was satan who took everything away. God and satan made somewhat of a bet, if you will. Besides, look how Job was rewarded for keeping his faith.

Not to mention...why would he ''test'' us all on Earth to see if we needed to get into heaven. Religion is just a way to get everyone to act "correctly"

God whats to see what we love more: Him or satan. You can either live for the world or live for God. There's no inbetween.

At 9/20/07 09:27 PM, balto-boy wrote: Stuff.

Ah I was waiting to see if you were going to post here again. Guess what I found?

My theory on universal creation

God (and by God, I mean the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; not Allah or Buddah or whatever) created everything. And I mean everything. And we should praise Him for it! That's how it is, that's what I believe, you can't convince me otherwise, but I won't force a Godly lifestyle on you. You need to decide to live a Godly life for yourselves.

but I won't force a Godly lifestyle on you. You need to decide to live a Godly life for yourselves.

You won't force a Godly life you say? Decide for ourselves you say? Hypocrite much?

At 9/20/07 09:53 PM, Brick-top wrote: but I won't force a Godly lifestyle on you. You need to decide to live a Godly life for yourselves.

You won't force a Godly life you say? Decide for ourselves you say? Hypocrite much?

I...am...not...forcing...it on you. I never implied it. Granted, I was mad at a collection of atheists on NG and that's why I started this whole debate, but I am not trying to force Him on you, geesh. I'm simply here to open the door in a clearly Godless setting.

Speaking of which, that quote isn't a bad one.

At 9/20/07 09:20 PM, anime-man10 wrote: I'm agnostic....How did we all get here without a god??? I'm positive evolution is complete bullshit. But the bible contradicts itself so many times...God is supposed to be "all knowing" and yet he took everything away from Job to test wether or not he was truely faithful. Not to mention...why would he ''test'' us all on Earth to see if we needed to get into heaven. Religion is just a way to get everyone to act "correctly"

So you're rational for thinking there is a god is as follows: "It's hard to believe we got here through the Big Bang and evolution, so there must be an imaginary power in some other plane of existence that created us for shits and giggles, and also scattered trillions of deserted planets and stars around like marbles just because!"

WTF?!?!? What's more believable, that a man in heaven made us, or that we got here through science and random events in the universe??!?!?? I'll pick #2. Jerk.