Sorry for the double post everyone...

FlyJ:
Also try not to double post, if you forgot to say something important (like I just did) then it's okay but just don't do it intentially. Also don't quote too much, only what you are directly responding to. And one more thing, it is customary to put a link to the club in your sig or at least an advertizment (so to speak), like the one I have.

After watching a single U$F video from Urban free flow, i have come to appreciate there parkour skills. But i still hate them.

U$F Volume 3 now available! go watch all three, free download, and each video is approximately 30 minutes long.

http://www.urbanfree..lar_f/u_dollar_f.htm

Flying J-

Thank you for joining NG MAC for me, or out of sheer boredom, but Im not posting on SB. Maybe a little in the General Forums, but Im not going near the sci fi. Everyone here calls me satan, I enjoy my title, plus it keeps things less formal. And Im pretty sure you spelled Kali with a 'c' just to piss me off. If I have to go over word origins again Im gonna freak. KALI...with a K. Just for future reference. Grammar nazi out.

Mono and Theban-

Since we're on the knife fighting topic today, I have to ask your opinions on the xblock against overhead attacks (slash or ice pick) and abdominal stabs? Military and combat styles of Hapkido teach you to use a different block and traditional styles teach you to xblock. I was taught both techniques and prefer the military style better. Xblock against anything just seems flimsy. From an abdominal blow, defending with an xblock into the technique, all they have to do is turn the knife and pull out and they've sliced both of my wrists. Which isnt the best place to get cut. For knife fighting I know you have to be faster than your attacker, but I would rather be slow and have control of the situation than I would fast and fuck everything up. I know most styles teach you to get out of the way and run, but my style suggests disarming and then running, just in case they really wanted you and happen to be on high school track. So what do you guys think, xblock or not?

SB is for spacebattles, its a forum for sci fi and a few other things. I prefer NG. I dont really like sci fi and most of the members have a self centered God complex where they're right and no one else is. (No offense Flying J) And I would much rather post in the NG MAC where everyone's opinion is valued and taken into consideration. But it can be mildly entertaining on occasion. Check it out.

http://spacebattles.com/

At 7/12/06 11:07 AM, ThebanLegion wrote:

t3r:
Sweet, I want a chain mail shirt, that would rock! And just 600 bucks is a really good deal, I've seen some where you get less than what you described for well over a thousand $$$. You must post pictures!

hell yeah. i kind of broke my thumb today swordfighting with my friend with no gloves. i had the killing blow though, so i know that i won. but of course i'll post pics when i get in 1-2 months. and 600$ is a damn good deal. the guy thats making it, olaf, is from norway and made a living there making chainmail and has been doing it for 40 years. so i know itll be well made.

Man i hate this club, you guys post too much crap for me to read. :p.

Anyways TKD is so stressful as of late. Lots of changes in the school and plus the fact that i have to pay a contract in order to work there is annoying my parents. They are so fed up with it that even if i paid for it they would still want me to quit. Why does this shit happen to me. It seems every summer at TKD sucks. Wish it would just end.

Anyways ill have my infamous scissor kick up soon since my friend is going to get the thing he needs to upload it on a computer. Hopefully you guys will enjoy it.

Also if you want please join the forums. It has been hectic as of late thanks to certain people but i ave got it back under control.

Its pronounced "TAE KWON DO." i would know after 6 years of it. I've reached a 2'nd degree black belt.

At 7/12/06 09:38 PM, _XaNDer2193_ wrote: Its pronounced "TAE KWON DO." i would know after 6 years of it. I've reached a 2'nd degree black belt.

eeeyeah. What would make you think that we dont know how to pronounce Tae Kwon Do? Calling it TKD saves us from having to type out the entire name. Either way other people know what we're talking about.You seem kinda snotty. I dont like you.

Everyone else-

Those of you that chat with me often on messenger need to readd me if they would like to continue coresponding with me. I downloaded the new 8.0 messenger and then decided that I dont like it so I removed the program and tried to reinstall the old one. It turns out the old one no longer exists so I had to get the new 8.0 system back. Doing this caused all of my contacts to disappear. And sadly I dont know any of your email addresses (if I did I would just readd you myself, but I dont so fuck off) so I cant add you to my contact list. ADD ME NOW!
sara_guyton@hotmail.com

At 7/12/06 09:38 PM, _XaNDer2193_ wrote: Its pronounced "TAE KWON DO." i would know after 6 years of it. I've reached a 2'nd degree black belt.

Good for you, you got your 2nd degree. Ya i could've tested for my third but i decided to wait.

And if you want to be a jerk about TKD then you forget not all leters are caps. And there are several spellings of it since the written language "hangul"(the korean alphabet) is just based off of sounds and with the american vowels it can be spelled several different ways.

O and welcome to the club.

At 7/12/06 06:09 PM, Satanic_Samurai wrote: Flying J-

Thank you for joining NG MAC for me, or out of sheer boredom, but Im not posting on SB. Maybe a little in the General Forums, but Im not going near the sci fi. Everyone here calls me satan, I enjoy my title, plus it keeps things less formal. And Im pretty sure you spelled Kali with a 'c' just to piss me off. If I have to go over word origins again Im gonna freak. KALI...with a K. Just for future reference. Grammar nazi out.



SB is for spacebattles, its a forum for sci fi and a few other things. I prefer NG. I dont really like sci fi and most of the members have a self centered God complex where they're right and no one else is. (No offense Flying J) And I would much rather post in the NG MAC where everyone's opinion is valued and taken into consideration. But it can be mildly entertaining on occasion. Check it out.

http://spacebattles.com/

*whispers* shes just a little niffed she was wrong on something :p(kidding....dont kill me)

No I didnt spell Kali with a C to piss you off...was more a total blank of how the hell I spell anything. As far as knife fighting..

Any time you go into a fight against another person with a knife, whether you have a knife too or not doesnt matter, you are going to get cut. Now that is going by averages...it doesnt happen ALWAYS but yeah. Personally I prefer to go for a cut on the opponents wrist...though the ability to get this depends on how exactly they attack you...but meh.

I didnt you guys really mentioned Parkour here...or tricking perhaps? What about Sport Martial Arts? Does anybody here really get into any of that? If I could find some of my clips of myself Ill post them up and put a linky up.

Anyway...if Satan gets this...get on myspace!

okay, WING CHUN practitioners...

what do you, or did you find to be the most difficult thing about your training? JKD doesn't count as Wing Chun...sorry =/

Fying J-

Fuck you. And yes, going into a knife fight you're going to get cut, however, very few knife fights are fatal. There was a couple page Parkour topic a while back that I didnt really participate in. What is Parkour? You're actually the first XMA guy to join. Not many of us are into it, but Theban has heard of the NASKA circuit because he goes to Bluegrass. Thanks for the myspace alert.

R3d-

Training my stances was the hardest thing I did in Wing Chun. I had a really hard time catching onto the tucking your pelivs thing, grounding your feet for balance and keeping everything up. Going into the closed Wing Chun stance from the open stances of TKD and Hapkido was difficult.

DSM-

Really? You have the new forum under control? Are you referring to asshat? Eeeyeah, I think the two of you still have a few things to work out, may I suggest marriage counseling? Is there an age limit in TKD to get to 2nd degree? Because there is one in Hapkido. Im just curious as to whether or not this Xander guy is full of shit or not. These little brats that pop out of the blue to say something stupid piss me off.

Ok, uhh...Readin down the page, from my last post:

@ Flying J, Welcome! Good to hear that we have another Kenpo/Kempo person here.

I do Ken-Ryu Kenpo Karate (if you look it up on google you'll find some intereting things). I also learn a bit of many of martial arts, like Kung-fu and Ju-jitsu. In my school, at the level that I'm at, we try to make things as realistic as possible. Thats about it...

Oh yeah, I'm almost 2nd degreee at my school. (testing in September)

@ Mono (in your response to Theban): At my school, we are taught to get off the center line in almost every technique. So, Yeah, I guess it is taught....

@ Deadly: My friend and I tried to do some basic parkour and found out 2 things:

1) It doesn't work in sandals
2) Rolling out on mulch hurts, no matter how you do it.

Also, when doing those parkour rolls, do they just do shoulder rolls? Cuz shoulder rolls are taught at my dojo. ...just a bit of random trivia...

@ Satan (on X blocks): At my school we are taught to only do those on over head and upward knife strikes. On the upward one, we are taught to bring the knife around o stab them and to cross off the center at the same time.

Also, in my experience, X blocks are one of the most powerful blocks out there.

@Xander: Not a good way to introduce your self.

Also, at Satan: I know a little of XMA and my school participates in the naska circuit all the time.

*Jumps up and down*

I know about Parkour...the rolls the do are a form of shoulder rolls that you have to use to stop the force of your fall from killing you...or injuring you. Biggest thing is where you hit on the shoulder...to high and you break your collarbone on some of this stuff to low and theres a multitude of injuries you can cause yourself. You want to try and hit kinda on the upper corner and roll from there...hard to explain over the web.

Good to hear someone else competes on NASKA I dont run into many people really who try and stand up to the big names.

Anyway, Satan I messaged you again.

To: Theban -

Regarding more than 1 or 2 attacking motions: Going to have to PM you an example of what I mean....... Yeah, it's not an example of something that's common knowledge.

Getting off the center-line is a BIG thing, when dealing with a knifer. Either pivoting out of the way or side-stepping. It'll buy you a second or two to defend yourself.

Good to hear your Instructor keeps an open-mind....... This week, I'm working on how to disengage an auto-pistol's slide-stop; without breaking your thumb. (Seriously). Hmm..... use a revolver instead. Perfect! Onto solving World Hunger.......

The first reaction is completely instinctive. What do you do next?....... Actually, a perrying slap is a very quick movement, excellent for dealing with a knifer, since you don't end up leaving your limb out there to get cut. But here comes the painful realization. (Don't worry, it won't hurt too much). All experienced knifers will instinctively tuck in their chin, protecting their throat. Since it's one of THEIR preferred targets, they do an excellent job of protecting theirs'. Substitute a palm-heel strike to the face, and a thrust kick to the outside knee (the one farthest away from his knife), and you've got a winning move....... provided you can execute it faster than he can recover from the initial perry.

I'm glad you appreciate this. I'm happy to help anyone who wants to extend their martial arts knowledge. Check your PM Inbox.
______________________________
To: Fly_J -

Hi, I'm Monocrom (Mono, for short). I'm nearly twice as old as the other members of this club. (Yes, that is the correct age in my profile). I've studied R.B.S.D. (Reality Based Self Defense), Renaissance Swordsmanship, Knife Combatives, and Combat Handgunning.

If an artery or major blood vessel is cut, you actually have about 20 seconds of consciousness. And if your adrenaline is pumping, that's more than enough time to give the other guy a fatal cut as well.

I'd be happy to help you out. Read my first post on page 183, then all of my posts until now, along with all of Theban's posts; the ones where he responds to my posts. That should catch you up on the discussion....... Also, Theban is correct, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about knives (I can instantly tell the difference between a piece of junk, a good-quality blade, and a great one) and how they are used by Knifers & Defenders as well.

You are correct about the likelyhood of getting cut. That's why I always advocate Distancing & Running away. (Never too proud to run).......... The thing about using a knife yourself, you might have a prefered target, such as the wrists, but in a situation where you're the one using a knife to defend yourself; you don't have time to wait for an opening to your prefered target to present itself. Got to go for whichever target is available NOW.
______________________________
To: satan & fr13 -

How can I describe the look on my face........ Imagine a 90 year old guy, stripping off all his cloths, in the middle of the desert, rolling around in a cactus-patch, and laughing for joy. The looks on your faces are the one I had when I read that your schools actually teach the Xblock........ for use against knives!

Theban and I briefly discussed Xblocks. The Xblock is great for use against swords, when you get in very close and the front of the sword's handle comes down on your block, or for use against clubs. But those weapons have an inside range. Meaning, you can get SO close that their effectiveness is gone because you are inside of the weapon's range. Knives don't have an inside range. There is no such thing as being SO close to a knifer, that he can't hurt you with his weapon. Xblocks are indeed powerful, but they were never meant to be used against knives!

Sorry fr13, but satan is right about Xblocks being flimsy against knives. All a knifer has to do is turn his wrist with an abdominal Xblock, and your wrists hands or arms get cut wide open. When you're bleeding all over the place, you're not going to be able to stab him with his own knife and move off the center-line; at the same time. The over-head Xblock is even worse! With the knife held in an icepick grip (edge in), all a knifer has to do is jerk his elbow straight down, after you execute the block, and he's just filleted open the bottom of one of your forearms! (I'm honestly amazed that M.A. schools STILL teach the Xblock as being effective against knives! Swords have an inside range, knives don't. The overhead Xblock was originally designed to defend against swords).

Sorry satan, but disarming a knifer is nearly impossible. Real knifers don't make big, arm movements. They keep their knives close to the body, they try to close the distance with their intended victim, (called "getting intimate," he's going to be right up against your body before launching his attack), they keep their knife movements tight and usually below the Defender's field of sight........ A lot of victims say the same thing: "I never even saw the knife," "I thought I was getting punched, until I saw the blood." How can you disarm him, if you think he punched you; instead of stabbed you? Knifers also know how to rotate their wrists. Unless you can grab high-up on the arm (including the knifer's wrist) with both hands, he can still rotate his wrist and cut you; especially if he's using an icepick or reverse grip. Add to that, he still has one hand free; with which to punch you. Is it a hot Summer day? Does he have on a short-sleeved shirt?......... How are you going to hold on to a hairy, sweat-covered and very slippery arm; in order to disarm him?.......... If the guy is on the track team, put obsticles in between you and him. (Parked cars are great for this). If he still han't closed the distance, grab a chair, hold it out in front of you. If he tries to grab one of the legs, charge forward and pin him to the wall with it! (Works best if he's the only one attacking you).

Xblocks for swords = Yay!

Xblocks for knives = Fuck NO!!!

Mono: Its not really a block, you're more just using one hand to redirect the knife then run. I use the term X Block, cuz otherwise its hard to picture what I'm doing. Also, if the guy drops his elbow, then I get cut on the outside of my forearm,but I also get a clear shot at running away. I would take those chances.

alright guys, been gone fer a week doing a tourney...lost...but got REALLY close.

So, i beat several self-taught people, most of them tried to just look cool while they fought, which really is suicide in itself, since that's not even close to the real point of a tournament. Anyways, after i beat the first few rounds, i beat a Karate blackbelt, and a Tae Kwon Doe black belt. In the quarter finals, i lost to the guy who ended up winning, who was, like me, a Jeet Kun Do/ Drunken Boxing master.

So, now that i know what i can't beat, time for me to go to my favorite fellow martial artist club for advice. You see, Drunken Boxing and Jeet Kun Do are so incredibly different, that to combine the two creates such a wild fighting style, it blow your mind. Drunken boxers usually lure their opponents into seeing an opening that isn't there, and then oppressing the open spot their opponent leaves by attacking. With the power and the focusing attack Jeet Kun Do has, it can only strengthen this strategy, and improve other skills that might be weak points for Drunken Boxing...help...

At 7/13/06 02:51 AM, Flying_J wrote: I know about Parkour...the rolls the do are a form of shoulder rolls that you have to use to stop the force of your fall from killing you...or injuring you. Biggest thing is where you hit on the shoulder...to high and you break your collarbone on some of this stuff to low and theres a multitude of injuries you can cause yourself. You want to try and hit kinda on the upper corner and roll from there...hard to explain over the web.

They're also used to help keep your momentum. But i've yet to break anything, or...see anyone kill themself. a bit exaggerated there. But the worst thats happened to me is a few bruises.

At 7/13/06 02:38 AM, fremen13 wrote: 1) It doesn't work in sandals

Uhh...duh?

2) Rolling out on mulch hurts, no matter how you do it.

Imagine doing it on concrete. But if it hurts, your doing it wrong. Beside, about an hour ago I was out rolling on mulch. and 2 hours before that on my school roof. Not the rocks, but this weird sheet paper. I can't wait to try it on concrete.

Also, when doing those parkour rolls, do they just do shoulder rolls? Cuz shoulder rolls are taught at my dojo. ...just a bit of random trivia...

Yes, it's to protect your spine. Well maybe you can help me out and give me some tips on shoulder rolls. Before i try them on concrete i want to get them perfect on grass and my school roof.

Mono, you keep writing about techniques and how to do it and shit...
Well, chances are you're not actively fighting people up and down survival-based, are you?

Yes, you can practice techniques back and forward until they even replace your knowledge about basic additional maths.
But it's not gonna prove shit.
Once stress kicks in on you, the adrenaline starts pumping and your body realises, or believes that "SHIT, this is threatening my very existence", it's gonna want to warm up real good to make you perform at your -strongest- (not finest, it's fight or flight here people), thus it pumps out adrenaline, your heart increases the pace, you get sweaty, fast, due to your body getting warmed up, and really, all fine-motoristic movements GO OUT THE CHEESY-WINDOW, and your stuck there, with your suckerpunches and grunting.

Sorry, but this is a factor called "stress", which most people, including people who starts explaining how to diffuse a situation, in very explict terms and notes, hardly ever factor for.

Stress-handling can be worked on. You can improve on handling your stress, OH PLEASE don't say you don't feel stress guys and gals, cause even the brawler who goes out there to punch you in the face feels the similiar rush.

What is there to say about self-defense then?
Well, it's a tough, dark and moody world out there, and it's not pretty, nor fun nor interesting.
It's alot of shit, which you really don't want and if you're smart, wishes to avoid.
Sure you'll get "hardened" to some degree through doing, but it's not cool. In any way.

All you can do is remember to breath, keep your hands up, and go fucking berserker, hoping you can do that.
The stress moment can make a guy freeze totally though, which is crap, but a clear mind can keep you from getting hurt.

All I have to say from now.
Stay away from bullshit techniques/instructions that teaches that if you *just* do like they say, everything's gonna be a walk in the park with a pie.

Lundi: Congrats on getting as far as you did, but i dont really think ill be able to help you much on advice. all i know about Drunken Boxing is pretty much what you just said, you should be able to take apart the art itself (if you know it, it looks like you do) and see its weakness, for example, go for the opening he creates, then feint when he reacts to it and attack from a diffrent angle. just pick apart what you know about drunken boxing and think of something you would hate to have done to yourself then do it to him. same thing with the JKD aspect. thats really all the advice i can give.

so in short, just take what you know of the arts and find something that you would hate to have done to you, and then do it to him. sorry i cant help much more then that though..

Oh and no one and nothing can prepare you mentally for stressy situations of any kind. It's a special feeling, and to some people, it's a good feeling. It can make you feel alive sometimes.

Yay my good ol' buddy leth is back. He's got a point though. These self defense things what i would do if a person attacks here doesnt help to much. And when its mulitple attackers its too unpredictable. People are and your train of thought is as well.

Lundi i must say you are awesome. You are what a real martial artist is. You have balls of steel and stregnth to match. You are what i wish to achieve when i grow up. congratulations you are my hero. [/sarcasim]

At 7/13/06 09:24 PM, BigLundi wrote:

So, i beat several self-taught people, most of them tried to just look cool while they fought, which really is suicide in itself, since that's not even close to the real point of a tournament. Anyways, after i beat the first few rounds, i beat a Karate blackbelt, and a Tae Kwon Doe black belt. In the quarter finals, i lost to the guy who ended up winning, who was, like me, a Jeet Kun Do/ Drunken Boxing master.

BigLundi :

o.O where are these tournaments held? I would love to participate in such a tourney...how many people participate in them?

Yeah, I kinda want to know that too....

Also in response to Flying J (i think): I don't personally compete in Naska circuit, although I am familiar with it b\c my school competes in it.

To: fr13 -

I'm glad you clarified things. When you originally referenced the Xblock, I just naturally thought you meant the traditional Xblock. I think most martial artists would think that as well...... But I still don't see why you'd let a knifer open up your forearm, the way you fillet a fish, so you could run away. Why not just run from the start?
_______________________________
To: Lundi -

Damn, Ts beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing.
_______________________________
To: DSM -

Yeah, self defense is often times ugly & unpredictable as Fuck....... But what's the alternative to trying to prepare for it? It's either TRY, or just hope & pray that things turn out okay. Yeah, I may fail. I may end up dead. But dammit, I'm going to TRY!
_______________________________
To: Leth -

Welcome back! Glad to see you again.

Could you please give me back my brain? Your first post back sounds like something I would post. As a matter of fact, I already did! Quite awhile ago! Let me clarify:

Regarding techniques - I keep posting about them because I have to take into consideration that that is how Theban learns M.A. concepts. That's not how I learn them. To me, teaching techniques so someone can learn concepts is a totally alien thing. But since Theban is interested in picking my brain, I have to take HIS learning style into consideration.

Regarding fights - Nope! Not on a daily basis....... But then again, the same could be said about every other member as well.

Regarding stress - You are 100% correct. And so am I. Considering I posted the exact, same thing; many pages back. The only reason why I never brought up the issue of stress when posting about self defense techniques is because Theban and I both already know that. Be honest, if you asked me about dealing with a knifer, and I said "Okay, the first thing is, your body will experience stress." Wouldn't you feel insulted? Theban is not a n00b when it comes to learning the self defense aspect of martial arts. Why cover something so basic with someone who is not a Beginner?

Regarding diffusing a potentially bad situation - Obviously impossible to do under stress. It's important to keep a level-head. (Diffusing is something that needs to be practiced with a partner). It's not done when someone is attacking you. You do it when someone is in your face, and just arguing with you. Diffusing can be as simple as offering up a sincere-sounding apology for any perceived wrong that the hot-head thinks you've commited against him. Chances are, now that his ego is satisfied, he'll leave you alone. If he doesn't, and you end up fighting him; the witnesses will remember how he tried to stike you after you apologized to HIM. Makes it look as though you didn't want to fight but had no choice. (Makes YOU look good).

Regarding stress-handling - We are both correct again.

Regarding what self defense is really like - I think the situation is even WORSE than the way you described it! I once posted about the "rewards" (both physical and legal problems) that await those who are forced to defend themselves.

Regarding the last 2 paragraphs of your first post, back - I generally agree with you. But I feel that with proper training you CAN do more than what you described. But yeah, folks freeze up a lot of the time. That's why proper training and mindset is so important. Bullshit techniques and instructions can definitely get you killed............

And that's why I haven't posted any of those.

Satan, get on myspace please.

And sorry guys Ill add to discussion later.

At 7/11/06 09:52 PM, dsmking wrote: If i ever learn how to use with fans it would make it so much fun to get in fights. :p. Imagine this, you are getting fucked around with by someone and you pull out a fan. They call you *certain things that ng doesnt allow* and you act like a lil girl with it. Then all of a sudden you kick their ass with it.

oh, that would be SO badass!

that might infact be my new personal goal.

I cant wait to see the look on Cam's(a name that pretty much means absolutley nothing to you.... but hes a real jerk in my school) face when i kick his ass with a freakin' fan!

At 7/14/06 08:59 PM, Monocrom wrote: To: fr13 -

I'm glad you clarified things. When you originally referenced the Xblock, I just naturally thought you meant the traditional Xblock. I think most martial artists would think that as well...... But I still don't see why you'd let a knifer open up your forearm, the way you fillet a fish, so you could run away. Why not just run from the start?

Right. In my school the first option is ALWAYS to run, after that we talk about techniques if we can't run.

At 7/15/06 01:06 AM, Dark_orchestra wrote: oh, that would be SO badass!

that might infact be my new personal goal.

I cant wait to see the look on Cam's(a name that pretty much means absolutley nothing to you.... but hes a real jerk in my school) face when i kick his ass with a freakin' fan!

Nice! May I suggest doing it off of school grounds? And if you're gonna do it with a fan, get the ones with feathers on the end. :P

Flying_J-

If you're going to post here can you add to the conversation instead of using this as a myspace alert? Ill check it eventually, Ive been busy, give me a break. Geez.

At 7/15/06 01:06 AM, Dark_orchestra wrote: I cant wait to see the look on Cam's(a name that pretty much means absolutley nothing to you.... but hes a real jerk in my school) face when i kick his ass with a freakin' fan!

hey man school brawls are a bad idea, i have brutalized more than my fair share of high school dickheads, and if you are going to do it do it OFF SCHOOL GROUNDS.

At 7/15/06 02:17 AM, fremen13 wrote: Right. In my school the first option is ALWAYS to run, after that we talk about techniques if we can't run.

You should get your instructor to teach Parkour, the art of escape.

i keep screwing around with the name of it. The art of escape sounds extra cool though.