At 6/8/09 05:43 PM, Twilight wrote:

At 6/8/09 05:37 PM, Jonas wrote: Self promotion depends generally on the amount of effort put into the product, and how often you promote. Reasonably, if you want to promote in your signature, no one generally cares (save for referral links). However for BBS topics, generally one is allowed if it's of decent interest, meaning that if it's a pro34 board or something, we'll ignore it or delete it if it's absolutely a waste of space and energy to even bother thinking about it.

Alright, so if I make a joke that is widely known around the BBS and someone makes an ED page about it, and then in the thread I post that everyone's been duped and that it was all just a planned joke, should I get permbanned?

Because if so I'm gonna go bash my head in with an encyclopedia, dictionary, thesaurus and a very logical person all at the same time.

Well if your actions resulted in fun, that's not bannable generally, but if you revealing the joke would kill the fun, and result in more a 'I troll U' I could see a ban being implented.

Permaban?
Likely only for an alt or something that was used in whatever thread, because gimmick accounts are only funny if people get to laugh at the joke. Sometimes it's better to know you did a good job rather than worry about bragging rights, or something.

Ultimately, this situation doesn't change from a normal issue. If you did something fun, cool, if you did something fun, and want to turn around and be an asshole, and turn the fun thing into unfun, that's a pretty bullshit reason, so I guess ultimately, the ban sounds acceptable for the joke or something? Your main account isn't banned, so I guess I can't really feel like there's any harm currently happening.

Im pretty sure theres a way to prove age here. If Tom could keep Newgrounds alive and grow it into a rageing beast of a site then I know theres a way.

Maybe like an intellegence test or something.

At 6/8/09 06:23 PM, HecticCircleCrap wrote: Oh wait, children can cheat. i.e.: Asking their parents.

Precisely. There's no test you can set up over the internet that can't be cheated or otherwise circumvented like that. The only thing I can think of is a limit on signup date, post history, and general maturity level as discussed and approved by mods/admins.

...Oh wait, I just described the mod lounge. Oh well...

The thing with using age to define maturity is that it can be horribly inaccurate. Yes, the youngest users in on Newgrounds will be going through times (adolescence) where things that contribute to immaturity may get shown up, I think that's inevitable. However, there are more than a few users that are younger than me on Newgrounds who are still decent members of the community, and interesting people to hear from. I don't have a lot of examples at the ready right now (it's been a long day, I'm tired!), but I'm thinking along the lines of, say, Britkid (if he's still around) or someone. Additionally, as has already been mentioned, there are plenty of examples of the opposite: people who should be old enough to know better going around making the most unfunny and stupid "jokes" for whatever reason. Of course, that's all an opinion thing, but I think no matter how divided the BBS is on what's funny and what isn't, there's always a line that when a user falls below with their humour, it's generally agreed within the majority that they've failed in their quest.

I think a bigger issue is how something like that would affect the site on a wider basis though. I'm well aware this thread is solely about the BBS, but I wouldn't be surprised if a considerable amount of today's BBS users were introduced to the forums by finding some of the great games and movies here, and working it out from there. That's how I got here, and I know I'm not alone. The BBS may only be a small percentage of the site's overall traffic, so you could argue that an age restriction could apply only to the forums. I disagree with this too, due to some of the reasons Sheizenhammer mentioned above, and how it would turn some younger users off from using the site overall through the various incentives offered.

The solution lies, as I often bubble it down to, both regulars and mods doing their bits to put across examples to these newer and younger users. Again, as I've said before, I'm aware that it's wrong to treat them like babies with a cot for time-out and a bottle as a reward, but that the little things around here do count in some way to how the user sees the place. They of course need to do their bit too in making an effort, and it's not something that can be changed instantly in my opinion. That, or you could just ignore any "immature" threads you come across as a user. I honestly don't see that many problems with this, or at least, what some people say is exaggerated. I still live by the philosophy where if you find something so mind-numbingly stupid on the BBS, you just move on, and try to find something you are interested in.

What one user defines as "immaturity" also, might be hilarious to another. It's hard to describe, but you might see what I'm getting at. It's like if we forcefully turned every thread into hotbeds of intellectual discussion with no room for fun, I'm betting the BBS would lose a whole lot of users very quickly. People like to have fun around here rightfully, and while I might find one attempt at humour to be downright awful, there's no telling what might pop up later.

I hope those are some points to look at anyway. Of course, you might look at me and say the reason why I've made some of my comments here is that an age restriction where a credit card number was needed would essentially throw me out of the community. Hey, admittedly, I wouldn't want that to happen, and I doubt many of the other younger, perfectly harmless users would either.

Ooh, and I'm aware that this wouldn't really have any sway in deciding whether such a system would come into force on the BBS, I'm just throwing it in because people happen to talk about it, and some of what I say is pretty much linked to what people can do as an alternative, to improve the BBS. Hmm.

At 6/8/09 07:37 PM, Scarab wrote: Ooh, and I'm aware that this wouldn't really have any sway in deciding whether such a system would come into force on the BBS, I'm just throwing it in because people happen to talk about it, and some of what I say is pretty much linked to what people can do as an alternative, to improve the BBS. Hmm.

Y'know, I was going to throw a line on the end of my last post saying that discussions about changes to the BBS itself was off-topic in this thread (as BBM said earlier).

Now I'm glad I didn't. Thankyou for the interesting input, Scarab. ;)

At 5/31/09 11:00 AM, Jonas wrote:

What can moderators be doing better? Is there something that annoys you about how things happen, or is there something you would like to see happen?


DISCLAIMER - Your opinion may be ignored if you're stupid.

well, there is no problems that I see except that alot of people are making alts like Billy mayes and Michael jackson to make threads with. it's crude. for real, it is just them saying " fuck you, I'm still alive and you're not!" also, would you mind if I PM you later about a certain topic that you may of may not know about from my sig? the mod's around here are fucking cool. oh, side note, I tried the jonas burger. it owns.

It would be nice if moderators would act more like humans instead of banning machines, and perhaps stop making there own rules, and perhaps stop banning everyone for nit picky reasons. and perhpas shrink there massive egos a little bit.

Give users the option to lock their own threads?

just saying the same thing that was said before spell check and edit button, also we need more smileys :|

At 6/30/09 01:23 PM, kidd25 wrote: just saying the same thing that was said before spell check and edit button, also we need more smileys :|

This isn't really the place to suggest new features that are more technical. Taken from BananaBreadMuffin over on page 23 of this thread:

"Also, guys, please note this isn't a "What feature do you want on the BBS?", this is a "What can the mod team do to improve the BBS." ... Stuff we can actually change."

You can suggest new features here and discuss various ideas here... but you should keep in mind that an edit button and spell checker has already been rejected (see liljim's first post), and I would be very surprised if they put that back up for debate amongst themselves. It's just not going to happen. If you're going to post over things there, I recommend you read what's already been posted.

I believe you can download a spell checker add-on for Firefox if it's that neccessary. To compensate for the lack of an edit button... well, just proof-read your post before posting. It might be a drag, but it's the best way of making sure you don't get things horribly wrong.

That's enough of me derailing the point of this thread.

-BBS-
If maybve there were more sections, like a specific "Photoshop forum", "Real world stuff", etc.

-Moderators-
I don't think it's very necesary to ban people who posted in a spam thread if they didn't start it. Like this. I'm not mad at bananabreadmuffin, but I'm just using that as an example.

Um basically Poozy and bigbadron are gay.

Ok for some helpful information:

I think their needs to be a checks and balances system for mods. some of them take things way to far, some bans should need to be approved by multiple mods for larger bans. Maybe have certain lvls of mods where only higher lvled, more level headed mods can only dish out harsh bans.

I've seen some really fun users leave, and a lot of people just stop coming to the bbs because they got tired of the bans and the lack of fun. The real problem isn't the moderators banning people, it's the restrictions that the rules cause. All rules are meant to restrict people from doing certain things. Ashfordpride for example was a funny guy on the bbs, but he made spam threads and when he had to get banned for making them he got angry.

The rules are there so this does NOT become a 4chan type of place where you can do anything with no restrictions. You can have intelligent conversations here and throw out some funny posts and have a good laugh whilst going down the page of a thread.

Spam threads arn't allowed, not because they are not funny, (because sometimes they can be) but if you allow spam threads then good quality threads will get lost in the pile. People who like answering and replying to good threads won't be able to. Having a little fun here and there is good, it gives some color to the bbs. But all spam does is get one or two good replys and the rest are jumping on the bandwagon or whining about the quality of the topic, which just causes pages of hate and stupidity.

It's a forum and it's a place to have fun, and mods allow us to have fun. I'll be honest saying that i'll laugh more at the last words mods say before locking a spam thread rather than the thread itself.

You will be banned for spamming. You will be banned for (uneccesary hate) - meaning that if someone does something stupid or acts like a jackass, you can disagree, but if you are just jumping on the bandwagon or threatening people/harrasing people, you are the one spamming, and they are the more mature person. Because all hate and bandwagoning does, is make good threads spam. It's like toxin to the little bits of life this bbs holds.

This is a fun place to be, and we should enjoy it, and the mods let us do so. I've been here and I know people wouldn't come here if they didn't enjoy the bbs.

Look at madcow, banned many times, and usually for month long bans. Funny users come and go. But the regulars are starting to leave and it's becoming more of a newer crowd of people because the forums don't attract as many people anymore.

TLDR - The mods are doing fine. I've had one time in my history of newgrounds on the bbs where I was banned for a wrong reason, and i've never been banned for more than 3 days. Mods keep this place from going bad.

PS - You can tell when a thread is spam. If you think something has been done before, and a topic isn't unique and/or very popular, it's probably not a good thread. Post in good threads, that way we can keep those high post threads on the forums instead of having the page butchered by spam.

At 7/6/09 01:12 AM, jakenator85 wrote: -BBS-
If maybve there were more sections, like a specific "Photoshop forum", "Real world stuff", etc.

I think there are quite a few issues with introducing lots of new forums. Firstly, the detract from what lots of users go to General for: general discussion on lots of things. As spammy as General gets from time to time, I think it's also best to have things in a place where they can be accessed easily, generally speaking. A photoshop forum has definitely been discussed many times before, this thread (that I happened to have posted in, yay!) for example. Zerok actually says in that thread:

"If we did that then there'd be no reason to make a forum for every little nuance of "crap" and we'd end up with ten billion forums. Better to let them remain as ten billion threads, all lumped into one catch-all forum, aka General."

For more specific discussion, there's always the Clubs and Crews section. Photoshop fans have the Newgrounds Photoshop Headquarters, which is used by those that enjoy photoshopping, so the crap is generally played out, but you might want to get in touch with the regulars around there (such as THEJamoke or Heinrich) if you have any questions or whatever.

Additional moderation would generally be needed for new forums... but is that really a problem? Hmm, perhaps in a few cases.

We also don't really know how much backroom discussion has been made some forum-based ideas. Some things show us that if a large amount of users are calling for something, then there's a chance it will get implemented... but some ideas are definitely hinted at being already rejected.

It seems like I've posted this link a lot recently, but feel free to look through liljim's suggestions thread, and post there if you feel like it's a good idea. It's probably a better place to put ideas like this, since this thread is really more aimed at changes that moderators themselves can make, like changing their... ahem, style, and so forth. A discussion thread on that topic is here.

My two cents and what-not. I just take from what I hear :)

-Moderators-
I don't think it's very necesary to ban people who posted in a spam thread if they didn't start it. Like this. I'm not mad at bananabreadmuffin, but I'm just using that as an example.

I don't know if you've been reading through this thread; quite a few users have raised issues with this rule too. My opinion is that while it may seem unfair, I do see the point in it. ripoffhitman's post just above mine has parts of my view on it, in that it keeps obvious spam from getting in the way of someone's BBS time. While some think the whole thing about banning is pointless, this rule does help people make their own judgement about whether a thread is truly spam or not. My first couple of bans were for posting in spam threads, and I didn't understand what the point of it was then, but I think it does help people see how this place is run, what counts as spam as I just said, etc. It's a sticky subject as far as the BBS goes though. Some mods will enforce it more than others: going off what some have said in this thread alone, some just hate the destroy ban business.

Anyway, my neck is getting sore from me sticking my opinions where they're not really needed. I'll shut up now.

I agree about treating people with respect its rotten when certain mods are rude sorry, but EyeLozePoozy seems to be rude and treats some users like shit. I think its about a good banter from the mods I hate when I see mods acting rudely its unfair, and I know there are only human but there is no need to insult people all lock topics for no good reason. That is why I like mods who are fair and can have a good laugh BlueHippo, or other mods are cool

Im not sure what are current discussion is but frankly i think the BBS would be alot better if there werent so many spammers and overall trolling jackasses from 4chan or /b/ or what ever but thats just my opinion.

Strengthen the cabal!

Disclaimer: There is no cabal

Zerok needs to stop banning me for calling Crebb a faggot on the BBS.

We all know he is.

Nah but really i'd like a warning before a ban. A smack up the head from the higher power is as good as a ban, but leaves me still liking the mod.
I dont mind a mod tellin me i'm being a dick to my face in the form of a warning rather than a ban.

This might seem a little bit out of the blue, but it's my complaining time again. I swear it's been coming quicker and quicker recently. Anyway, this post is supposed to be addressing a specific issue. I think I should post it here, since it had me thinking a little bit (yes, I think about the BBS). I've followed this discussion thread for a while, and I think it's something relevant to bring up.

My point of contention? This thread, that I first saw the other day when it was bumped. Now, as I've said here before, I realise it's an unwritten privilege of being a mod around here to share in-jokes and such. I don't think it's fair to ask mods to just do their bit entirely without humour. Hell, we all know that if all the mods were replaced with emotionless robots, we'd all be asking for the humans back, partly due to the humour that is sometimes brought the BBS by them! I've said a lot of this before in this very thread, so I won't repeat myself here.

However, with this particular thread I've linked to, you might be asking where's the humour, or what's even the point? As far as I see it, it's all about making an example of users who ask to be mods, but does that really accomplish anything? I mean, the thread starts with EyeLovePoozy quoting those cherished FAQ lines, which tend to be posted whenever a newer user asks how to become a mod around here. Really, if I'm trying think intelligently here (which I am, but it might be coming off badly), that rule should really speak for itself. Sure, maybe some people speak on the topic where it borderlines stupidity, but is there really any need to make a thread about it, especially a thread that is clearly aimed to be nothing more than a private ridicule going by the locks? In my opinion, it's not really any better, and it goes along the same lines of complaints you hear about the mods from users that have claimed they're leaving the forums. I don't know if there are any rules against it or anything, but surely something like that is more suited to the mod lounge or somewhere? Of course, that eliminates the true humiliation factor, but people shouldn't need to be publicly humiliated when one of the major reasons people come here is to have fun.

Perhaps I'm being a bit narrow-minded, but I personally found it to be as funny as a funeral myself. Just to clarify, I'm not talking about one of those modern funerals where the speakers make jokes about the deceased and Another One Bites The Dust plays as the body is cremated. I'm talking about one of those funerals on a rainy day, of an old lady who lived until the day before her one hundredth birthday. Her beloved dog pants as it's tied to a post outside, and the grandson toddler looks up at its parents and says, "I miss Grandma.". At least in that case the priest tripping up on his way to the front might have caused a few laughs. But who knows, maybe I'm the boring type.

I actually mean that last sentence quasi-seriously. Again, maybe I'm feeling "butthurt" over not being included in a joke. I'm just thinking though that since we're trying to improve the experience of users here, it might be something to just tone down the prospect of humiliation for simply asking a question. I don't know the full story between any user that's been posted there and the mods... but frankly I don't really care either. The point can be made better and simpler (like it is here) and the humour can be made... well, worth laughing at. I'm not trying to point fingers here, but that issue in general could probably be handled a lot better.

At the risk of evaluating the BBS far too seriously, this place has a close-knit community. When people are laughed at, their e-humiliation is going to spread quite quickly. Going with maturity, I thought some people would know that easily, and the consequences of it.

Anyway, that's that done. Maybe I've made a complete arse of myself, but I'll shrug it off. If you've read what I've had to say, then that's cool. I'll be happy (and maybe a little relived) to read any responses. With any luck, I won't have to do something like this again any time soon.

My Dad said exactly the same thing when he paid the undertaker after my grandmother's funeral.

I agree with you Scarab. THe thread exists purely for Poozys own satisfaction at humiliating users. It's kind of pathetic really that he finds the need to embarrass other users to keep his "big bad mod" façade.

It's out of line. People come here to have a good time and if you don't know any better and ask to be a mod or something, the reputation will stay with you. Look at TOEZ for example, he'll forever be remembered as the guy who asked to be a mod and was ridiculed. That's not why people come on Newgrounds.

At 7/9/09 07:37 PM, Viridis wrote: I agree with you Scarab. THe thread exists purely for Poozys own satisfaction at humiliating users. It's kind of pathetic really that he finds the need to embarrass other users to keep his "big bad mod" façade.

With all due respect to Poozy since he's of a higher e-status than me, it does annoy me a little bit when people say things like, "we need a badass mod" or whatever. That doesn't say very much about the intelligent, funny and just generally decent users around here. Perhaps I'm being too positive, but I think a lot of BBS users (even the younger ones) can just use common sense and general moderate moderation (yes) to understand the rules. I think that if you're pushing the "badassery" part of the team further, then you're pushing some of the worst things about Newgrounds and the BBS. Sure, some people here are lousy, childish spammers and they can be dealt with appropriately. For the casual user... well, I think it just undermines them a little. That's not fun.

It's out of line. People come here to have a good time and if you don't know any better and ask to be a mod or something, the reputation will stay with you. Look at TOEZ for example, he'll forever be remembered as the guy who asked to be a mod and was ridiculed. That's not why people come on Newgrounds.

It should be kept in mind that a lot of users here are teenagers that probably haven't held an authority position before in their lives. Due to that, some people are inevitably going to want to be mods just for that reason; it might be an easy task in their minds compared to other positions of responsbility they also have at least a chance in Hell of getting. I still don't think that's a good enough reason to just suck the joy out of using the forums or the rest of the website.

Maybe I'm being naive here. It just seems like the sort of behaviour that has driven regulars away from the place, and trying to change that still seems to be some sort of aim in this thread, hmm.

I was tired of being banned for 'posting in a spam thread', ESPECIALLY after mods had access to that BAN ALL feature that indeterminately banned everyone in a thread. You know, it is possible to post something meaningful and worth reading in a thread that isn't. Don't punish me because some kid posted something stupid and I wanted to put my two cents in.

Why would I want to use a forum that I'd often have my access to restricted? I could talk about the same mindless shit anywhere, and I wouldn't have to worry about glancing down at the online users list to see if you-know-who was logged on.

It's a goddamn forum, and I just want to talk. Let me be. The community will turn the BBS into what it wants, and even if it's shit, it's what they want. Newgrounds is sustained by it's community, and they should always come first.

The only problem I have is mods that thing they own the place.... well they kind of do. But so immaturely and publicly can come off as negative.

I think i should be promoted to moderator, that would improve the BBS to high standards.

At 7/9/09 07:28 PM, Scarab wrote: My point of contention? This thread, that I first saw the other day when it was bumped.

I see the point, and I can tell why it looks like an abuse of power (if you can really call it that), but at the same time I can find reasons to disagree with it.

Firstly, that WAS funny to me. While my sense of humour is of absolutely no credible measure of worth, the point is that humour is too much of a matter of opinion to really base anything off of. Personally, I don't find most of the phallic humour on NG to be the slightest bit funny, but I know that a lot of people do, and by complaining about it I'll succeed in only making a fool of myself, so I just avoid it when possible.

Websites like this should be treated like the TV: if you don't like it, don't watch it. Complaining about it has been proven ineffective time and time again. That's the kind of place this is ('Everything, by Everyone' doesn't solely apply to the portals).

Secondly, I think that it wasn't what TOEZ asked that caused the flaming of him in that thread, but the extent to which he took it. If you look, Poozy wasn't the only one to get that PM; something very similar (if not identical) must've been given to Mal as well. And let's not ignore the BBS posts too. Tactless moronity of that caliber, I'm guessing, is not often seen, and may have been unusual enough to make some of the mods think it was funny enough to share. I suppose, after having to deal with it enough times, it just becomes a running joke of sorts.

However:

Notice the constant use of 'I think', 'I suppose' and other undecided terms in the above paragraph? I'm having to guess why the thread was made, trying to figure out why it was posted and what was to be gained from posting that. I can make suggestions all I like; the fact remains that I've been left guessing, as has everyone else who wasn't in on the original joke.

This goes back to my original point of self-explanation when it comes to the mod team. I hate to single people out over this, but Poozy is one of the worst ones for giving reasons why he does things. Often I do find rhyme and reason to his actions, but only after I go looking for them myself (as I've had to do here).

This is just another example of why at least hinting at the point of seemingly random actions is a good idea, even if the point was "just for fun, and to make sure no-one does it again in a hurry".

At 7/6/09 10:16 AM, REDSPADES wrote: Zerok needs to stop banning me for calling Crebb a faggot on the BBS.

Use that word again and you're getting banned. How many bans do we have to hand out about this before you guys get it? Stupid things like this at times can make us really get sour because goddamn, it's RULE 1 UNDER THE ONES WE TELL YOU RESULT IN BANS!! Wade made a whole thread reminding you guys about it, we discussed it in this thread. THAT WORD IS NOT OK TO USE HERE, IT JUST ISN'T!! So cut it out!!!

Please and thank you. This is like 90% of my bans these days and I shake my head every time I have to do it. Hey, you think it's retarded I have to ban for this? I agree, but not for the same reason. I think it's retarded I have to keep banning people for something so simple and basic and that we've stated thousands of times ever since the rules came into existence is not cool.

At 7/9/09 08:44 PM, AshfordPride wrote: I was tired of being banned for 'posting in a spam thread', ESPECIALLY after mods had access to that BAN ALL feature that indeterminately banned everyone in a thread. You know, it is possible to post something meaningful and worth reading in a thread that isn't. Don't punish me because some kid posted something stupid and I wanted to put my two cents in.

I think destroy has really been abused by some people and doesn't always get used like it should. But the problem for me in being able to point that finger at someone specifically is that the thread is removed and I don't get to see it. I tend to think somebody shouldn't have half their bans be destroy bans, but in the end, if I didn't see the threads, how do I know for sure? Plus people occassionally make mistakes, that's got to be remembered to.

But in general, if something OBVIOUSLY breaks the rules, stay the hell away from it folks. We want a good fun community, but our main task is to enforce the rules of the BBS, so if you're breaking them, you need to be ready to take the consequences for that.

At 7/9/09 11:49 PM, T-N-T wrote: There is one thing, why must we get banned for posting in a non-obvious spam thread? In other words, ones that doesn't seem like it is at first but later on it is.

Obviously without links, I can't make a real strong determination on the validity of what you're saying (sorry guys, I'd love to be able to trust you, but I've had so many users lie to me and try to put one over on me that without evidence I just can't always take it on faith). In the end it's up to the mod in question, I tend to think if a thread starts ok and then goes downhill though it should be locked and only the people derailing it be punished. Or what I try to do, catching it early enough that the irritant can be removed and the discussion saved, but that isn't always possible.

If there's one thing I've said before in this thread(somehwere), it's the backseat modding rule. And yes, I have read NEVR's news post about it, and you can call me stupid, dumb, slow, ignorant, whatever; the bottom line is that I don't exactly like PM'ing a Mod EVERY time a user needs some help. It's so much easier to point them in the right direction without sounding elitist, but the problem is this: What's the difference between pointing them in the right direction and just telling them where they need to post? Is not the former just a less obvious version of the latter? Hell, whenever I see someone post the wrong thing in a certain forum and I point it out, I have to cross my fingers and hope that a Mod who sees my help hasn't had someone piss in his/her coffee that day. PM'ing a Mod causes a user to seem needy and whiny, equating messaging a Mod with pulling on the apron strings of a caregiver. Granted, this is necessary for the new users, but for the older ones who post and are NOT condescending, it's a tad insulting, at least to me.

I think certain mods need to stop locking threads just because they don;t like it. It has happened to me numerous times.