At 5/31/09 11:21 AM, cast wrote:

At 5/31/09 11:08 AM, Gagsy wrote: Mods not overlooking the rules themselves just because they have mod status.

Yeah, double standards are quite apparent at times.

yeah, like the whole gay mods thing should've been stopped long before poozy locked it.

(I am the user Complete, but it is currently banned)

I am now officially leaving the BBS (Not newgrounds) because now the mods are just simply out of control, power hungry, pieces of shit. I am banned for making a joke in a thread, which we had to describe Tom Fulp in one word and everyone else saying "God" "awesome". I decided to be a rebel and say "A faggot" but of course, I get banned, perm banned that is. If that is not corruption, I don't know what is. Sure, maybe words like that are immature, but guess what? Some of the mods are guilty of the same thing and get away with it. So why not demod and ban them?

I'll tell you why- some of you are too damn ban-trigger-happy. There was a time where we had good threads, good mods preventing only the stuff nobody liked in. Now we mods BANNING things people enjoy because apparently "Too many people like it". But hey, if posting "a faggot" constitutes as a perm banned, I'm done. These forums are no longer entertaining, and I can only be wishful that we don't get "Flash Mods" who ban flashes everyone likes. Now I see why users that are very popular, been here for a long time are leaving, it just isn't fun anymore. The joke first began when EyeLovePoozy became a mod, and the corruption from there just accelerated.

And if any admin is reading this- I highly recommend you get rid of the current mod team and just select laid-back, fun users everyone likes to be moderator. And by all means, NEVER fucking let the mods vote on more mods, chances are that is how EyeLovePoozy, and other moderately-hated mods get power. From experience, I have been to forums where the popular users, laid back ones were modded, and guess what? Those forums had plenty of good, original threads.

I see that we're still on the subject of mods, lol.

I'm not going to get back into a debate about what the mod team is doing right or wrong, but I will sat this to all the users who are leaving, or thinking about leaving the BBS:

If you really feel that the mods are out to get you, then just don't give us the excuse to ban you. It really is that simple.

I'm not going to try and persuade anybody to change their minds about staying or leaving, because frankly it's none of my business... but if you are going to leave, please don't make a big thing about it on the BBS; it doesn't help anybody.

This is the last time I'm going to say this, guys.

This thread is not your venting grounds for mods you dislike. We're being a little more lax here, but that's to enable you guys to say what you think about what we could be doing better as a team.

Any posts after this that contain unnecessary complaints about individual mods will be deleted, no matter how long they are. You can say what you think, yes, but let's not get into the trend of using this thread as somewhere to freely bitch about individual moderators without consequence. If you have a problem with a mod, take it up with a site admin.

Jonas has said to lock this thread if it gets too terrible whilst he's away for the weekend... don't make me do that. Please.

At 6/6/09 07:29 PM, NEVR wrote: Jonas has said to lock this thread if it gets too terrible whilst he's away for the weekend... don't make me do that. Please.

I'm right there with him. STOP SLAGGING ON INDIVIDUAL MODS. This is why you don't usually get nice things. Because you just call us "lazy" idiotic, or claim all your bans are unjustified and you don't post evidence. You wouldn't want people following you around slagging you every chance they get, why do you think we would?

So yeah, stop trashing individual mods and really, I think we SHOULD move on from that because I think we've got all the suggestions we need on moderation right now, it's just getting to flameing now. If you guys can't handle a lax thread and make some good and mature opinions you're gonna lose this thread and we'll probably not want to do this again.

If you want to be treated like intelligent people and have you're opinions heard, you need to act like intelligent people who's opinions are worth being heard and considered.

At 6/6/09 07:29 PM, NEVR wrote: Jonas has said to lock this thread if it gets too terrible whilst he's away for the weekend... don't make me do that. Please.

Crap. I had hoped to put a little more thought into my post here, but whenever a line like that appears in a thread, a lock is not usually that far away (thanks to people not taking the hint), so I suppose I'd better voice my opinions as they are if I want to take advantage of this brilliant idea of a thread:

If there's one thing the mod team as a whole could do better, it's explanation. I've noticed that some mods are very good at getting users to see eye-to-eye with them, while others are... well, rubbish. To this effect, I think that all BBS mods (that don't already) should try to put more into their explanations of why their actions are justified.

The easiest (and best) way of doing this would be simply to spend more than 2 seconds on lock messages. Yes, the thread may be completely stupid, and the reason why it's getting locked is obvious to 90% of the forum base, but what about the new users and/or people that have never actually seen the reason behind the locks? The kind of thing I'm getting at is like this:

Example 1:
"No religious debate topics"
Pretty straightforward, but it doesn't actually explain why they're not allowed. However, simply lengthening it to:
"No religious debate topics, because they too easily turn into over-opinionated flame wars."
is, in my opinion, much better (even a completely new user would understand why he/she shouldn't make religious debate topics after reading that), and only took a few extra seconds to write.

Example 2:
"Blog it."
This one causes a recurrent grey area, I know, however a simple sentence explaining why the thread was blog-worthy would suffice, i.e.:
"You left no room at all for discussion, and the BBS isn't your personal bawwing space. That's what your blog is for."

Simple changes, I know, but if you spell it out like that, there's no room for confusion, and actions that can be construed as "abuse of power" should become less prone to butthurt whining.

And then you get ones that are just plain dumb. I really hope lock messages like "Fuck this thread." and "Yeah, no." become a thing of the past, as they really offer nothing useful to anyone. Not even the mods who posted them, as they're only inviting people to think ill of them in the lack of an apparent reason why said threads were locked like that.

If, for some reason, giving the reason every time the same kind of thread is locked is going to be a headache for the mod team to do, then there is another way: as many mods as possible should do something similar to Zerok's rules blog. Just a list of things they lock/delete/ban for on the BBS. Even if said rule blogs are all 99% identical to Zerok's, it would still rule out any confusion regarding what will and will not land you in trouble here. It would eliminate the need to explain every individual action, as any mod that does it could just link to their rule blog in their sig, and direct the OP of any locked thread to said link if they want a fuller answer as to what they did wrong.

That's my main point. A few minor ones (which I haven't yet thought about as thoroughly as I'd have liked) are listed below:

- Acting like machines. Some mods have post histories that are nothing but lock messages (you know who you are). If all you do is lock/ban/delete, what do you expect the forum base is going to think about the mod team?

- Make more use of Evark's mod-only thread (this one). It looks like a great idea, that was abandoned for no apparent reason. I PMed Evark about it, and (given his response) I think it could still be a very useful tool in getting people to see where you're coming from on several recurring issues that people like to complain and accuse mods of megalomania over.

- Some things actually aren't handled strictly enough. I have no idea why topics about weed (for example) aren't locked on-sight, as the forums are already swamped with them, they turn into flame wars about as quickly as religious debate topics, and as far as most of NG is concerned it's an illegal activity anyway (when last I checked, discussing illegal activities was against the rules to begin with). At the very least, (ironically) some explanation as to why topics like that are still allowed would be good.

- Double standards. While I see nothing wrong with the occasional silly quip from a mod, I can see why people see it as highly irritating (especially if they got banned for it). If you see another mod doing something you just banned someone for, it might be worth PMing them over it, just to try and gague whether or not said action was really ban-worthy in the first place.

- The definition of a 'spam thread'. This is apparently a very old problem, and yet it still hasn't really been solved with regards to being able to accurately tell what you will and won't get a spam topic ban for. If the mod team could get together and decide upon some concrete (or at least more clear) definitions of what a 'spam thread' is, I'm sure a lot of people here would be grateful for it.

Aside from that, it's all up to the forum base as a whole, not just the mods. Or just the regulars. Or just ANYONE in particular. All a BBS really is is a collection of posts, so it's the responsibility of everyone who posts here to make sure their posts are above a certain standard.

At 6/6/09 08:59 PM, GOTHCLAWZ wrote:

At 6/6/09 07:29 PM, NEVR wrote: Any posts after this that contain unnecessary complaints about individual mods will be deleted, no matter how long they are.

Please elaborate further on 'unnecessary'.

All complaints about individual mods in this thread are unnecessary; that's not the purpose of this thread.

Sorry for double posting... but I know some of you are a little confused about the backseat modding rule, which is understandable. I've made this news post to try and clarify the rule for everyone, and perhaps answer some of the questions any of you may have on the matter.

Thought it might be useful.

At 6/6/09 08:59 PM, GOTHCLAWZ wrote:

At 6/6/09 07:29 PM, NEVR wrote: Any posts after this that contain unnecessary complaints about individual mods will be deleted, no matter how long they are.

Please elaborate further on 'unnecessary'.

Unfounded, untrue, and irrelevant.

I really want to prevent as many good users from leaving as possible, already atleast 5 users who I REALLY like (Gendo, Mendou, etc) have left due to the condition of the BBS and the way it's being run. Now it's not entirely the fault of the mods here, as these users do like some of the moderators. However, they felt a little abused by some of them who had the attitude of "if you don't like it here, fucking leave", and other various bullshit they've come to endure, not just by mods, but by other regulars and users. I find this type of attitude to be very negative and anyone who does this ruins the experience for the rest of use. WilliWowza's last news post is a primary example of how the users have been treated and it is really sad to see some of this, especially the one about Valz.

I think these regulars have done as much for the BBS as the mod team, yet their impact goes greatly unnoticed for different reasons. But, I am going to mention some of them because if it were me, I'd like some recognition, so here's a short list of awesome stuff these guys have done.

AshfordPride: He made the BBS a funnier place, he's been called the funniest user of the BBS, and his topics were constantly fresh, witty, smart, and just damn fun to read.
ZeroAsALimit: He was a great poster and user. He was a big C&C contributor, and helped do alot for the Industrial Crew. He was smart, funny, and just a cool guy.
Gendo: I can't speak higher of this man, I get that not alot of people like anime but if you talked to this guy he will treat you with respect. He's made witty posts, his sarcasm is infectious and he's one of the smartest guys out there, it's a shame that he's gone.
Mendou: A Rookie of the Year, and wonderful guy. He's just really funny and cool. He makes the mood of the BBS wonderful.
Willi: A great guy, with a beautiful sense of humour. His threads are entertaining, and his posts are energetic and really funny.

That's my little tribute to them. As you can see, these users had a great deal of impact on me so I can't ignore them; they were just funny, and that's all they ever needed to be to make this place great. Now I do have a few suggestions for the BBS, but let me just say that we need to deal with the problems we have now before we can move forward and make consistent improvements. Basically the big problem is the level of negativity and over-zealous modding. a negative attitude is contagious, so we need to keep that down. The majority of the mods do a great job, but they need to tone it down a bit.

So, without further delay, Matt's suggestions for the BBS:

Have better and more relevant discussions
This is rather obvious, but the number of threads I see that are just stupid, and offer nothing of value to the BBS. Now, I will like to say that these are not spam threads, but they generally feel the same way. I don't want to post in them, because these threads offer nothing of intelligence or humour. they just exist, and makes it hard for users to post something of value. It's really not hard for users to do, but not many of them actually have something to say. This is really out of the mods control, but the mods are users aswell, and like all of us try making the BBS funny and smart. We should all do our part to make this place great.

Positive attitude
I can't stress enough how much a negative attitude can make everyone feel the same way. I have been harshly guilty of this in the past. It's not a good feeling. But the way we can make things better is by having a positive attitude, and working towards making a negative into a positive. Treat others how you'd like to be treated. It's a basic rule in almost every setting, and that's what we have to do here. Do you have to be nice or like everyone? No, I know I am not, but treating them with a bit of intelligence and respect will go a long way. Pretty much, try not to be an uppity dick, you have an opinion and so do I, we won't agree but let's work towards trying to keep a positive, intelligent and friendly discussion.

Give out recognition
I have touched on this already, but it's really a good way to keep users from leaving. Mods, regulars, new users they should be entitled to some recognition. The BBS awards are an example of this, but it's really not the most civil of activities. An easy way to give recognition is just to sayin the thread about what a good point a user made in a topic, or just by sending a PM. You don't have to do this, but I think we could benefit from a little bit of praise.

That's really all I have to say, and I would like to thank the mods for organizing this thread for the rest of us to give our input. So thanks.

I am an optimist, which is part of the reason why I have been here for 5 years. So I look forward to seeing the problems go away and seeing the BBS improve. No matter how bad things get, there is always room for us to better ourselves. That's the way I see things.

That's my input on this matter.

I think that mods should be more wary about the seemingly innocent threads, rather than the more blatant ones. I know for a fact that yesterday there were two threads whose opening post was simply "This is why" and it had a hardcore porn picture on it, and they had titles like "Why religion is right" or something like that. I PM'ed Jade, and she did say it slipped under the radar, so I think you could be a little bit more suspicious of threads which seem innocent. Mostly they will be fine, but I am sure on occasion there will be one sneaky thread.

At this moment in time, about a third of the topics on the page are sex-related, and is often more than that. What's more, any topic related to sex AT ALL will get pages of stupid +1 replies, wheras thought-out, long OP post thread are ignored. That says it all really. Not a lot the mods can do except be harsher on those topics and encourage more diverse ones I suppose.

At 5/31/09 11:07 AM, yhar wrote: Seriously, people like poozy annoy the fuck out of me

half of the people on newgrounds can say the same... whenever poozy comes on-line NG suffers a bad case of thread lock... much worse than grid lock.

At 5/31/09 11:00 AM, Jonas wrote: I'm not going to ban anyone posting in here provided you act civil.

Let's try to avoid flame wars, but I'm going to ask an honest question.

What can moderators be doing better? Is there something that annoys you about how things happen, or is there something you would like to see happen?

REMOD SATURDAY.

DISCLAIMER - Your opinion may be ignored if you're stupid.

Shouldn't that be "Your opinion may be ignored if your post is stupid."? Or is there now a "Determine stupidity" function that mods have access to?

At 6/8/09 02:40 AM, Kartoffels wrote:

At 6/8/09 02:37 AM, Saturday wrote: REMOD SATURDAY.

This is a typical post we generally should ignore because of the irrational content. :P

Seriously dude.

Can't she talk about anything else? Fucking crazy be-yotch.

We should talk about individual mods more.

I'll start.
Poxpower. He's great. Everyone should copy him. His beats are dope.

At 6/8/09 03:24 AM, poxpower wrote: We should talk about individual mods more.

I'll start.
Poxpower. He's great. Everyone should copy him. His beats are dope.

Personally I think he's shitty and his site is just pure fucking awful, like really bad.

At 6/8/09 03:31 AM, Gagsy wrote:

At 6/8/09 03:24 AM, poxpower wrote: We should talk about individual mods more.

I'll start.
Poxpower. He's great. Everyone should copy him. His beats are dope.

Personally I think he's shitty and his site is just pure fucking awful, like really bad.

Seriously.. That site is so ugly..

At 6/8/09 03:31 AM, Gagsy wrote:

Personally I think he's shitty and his site is just pure fucking awful, like really bad.

Yes his website is fucking stupid.
:(

At 6/8/09 03:36 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 6/8/09 03:31 AM, Gagsy wrote:

Personally I think he's shitty and his site is just pure fucking awful, like really bad.

Yes his website is fucking stupid.

(

And it's disgusting. It has so many pictures of man boobs on it.

At 6/8/09 03:36 AM, poxpower wrote:

Yes his website is fucking stupid.

(

lololol

I love how I'm joking and everyone else just agrees.

I'D HATE TO BE YOU RIGHT NOW.

Nice art on there though.

Any moderator complaining about a user that takes the time to post a well thought out post about that moderator's shortcomings would do well to listen.

Any user that complains about a moderator's actions would do well to look at what invoked those actions.

Errors are two way streets.

Sometimes a man shouldn't have been given parole, and sometimes a woman shouldn't dress so damn slutty.

Back from Montreal, will catch up on thread after I catch up on sleep. Priorities and such.

At 6/8/09 02:24 AM, Fyndir wrote:

At 6/7/09 05:36 AM, MattTheParanoidKat wrote: I am an optimist, which is part of the reason why I have been here for 5 years.

It's funny because you can't count.

Lol what? It's November already?

At 6/8/09 05:28 PM, Twilight wrote: Is self promotion a bannable offense?

And when you answer to this, can I elaborate more?

Self promotion depends generally on the amount of effort put into the product, and how often you promote. Reasonably, if you want to promote in your signature, no one generally cares (save for referral links). However for BBS topics, generally one is allowed if it's of decent interest, meaning that if it's a pro34 board or something, we'll ignore it or delete it if it's absolutely a waste of space and energy to even bother thinking about it.

I think if more users attended meet-ups that they said they were going to there would be much less problems on the BBS

:(

At 6/8/09 05:43 PM, Twilight wrote:

At 6/8/09 05:37 PM, Jonas wrote: Self promotion depends generally on the amount of effort put into the product, and how often you promote. Reasonably, if you want to promote in your signature, no one generally cares (save for referral links). However for BBS topics, generally one is allowed if it's of decent interest, meaning that if it's a pro34 board or something, we'll ignore it or delete it if it's absolutely a waste of space and energy to even bother thinking about it.

Alright, so if I make a joke that is widely known around the BBS and someone makes an ED page about it, and then in the thread I post that everyone's been duped and that it was all just a planned joke, should I get permbanned?

Because if so I'm gonna go bash my head in with an encyclopedia, dictionary, thesaurus and a very logical person all at the same time.

Well if your actions resulted in fun, that's not bannable generally, but if you revealing the joke would kill the fun, and result in more a 'I troll U' I could see a ban being implented.

Permaban?
Likely only for an alt or something that was used in whatever thread, because gimmick accounts are only funny if people get to laugh at the joke. Sometimes it's better to know you did a good job rather than worry about bragging rights, or something.

At 6/8/09 05:28 PM, Twilight wrote: Is self promotion a bannable offense?

And when you answer to this, can I elaborate more?

if you can't follow rules and regulations, pretty much everything is bannable, basically you'll come out as a troll. for example, if you post a thread advertising your music, get redircted to the audio adv. thread, make yet another thread, and blatantly ignore the previous redirection, you definitley risk getting banned.

so to answer your unspecified question, yes, selfpromotion can be a bannable offence depending on the situation.

elaborate if you wish.

At 6/8/09 06:07 PM, Rucklo wrote: elaborate if you wish.

oh wait, you already did.

+1? :(

At 5/31/09 11:21 AM, SymbolCymbal wrote:

Personally i just think there should be an 18 and over forum.. i know that would be a real bitch on you mods especially with little kids creating alts just so they can abuse it. but who knows maybe its possible.

I am Smeagol1 and I approve this! Seriously we need a forum were no users that haven't hit puberty cannot access. Imagene the possibillitys

At 6/8/09 06:11 PM, smeagol1 wrote: I am Smeagol1 and I approve this! Seriously we need a forum were no users that haven't hit puberty cannot access. Imagene the possibillitys

....Of it getting incessantly trolled by 12 year olds setting their profile age to 18+.
Or stealing things out of their parents' wallets to provide "proof" of their age.

And then there's the depressingly large amount of 18+ people that still have the mentality of prepubescent morons on here, credit card or not.

Nah, I really can't see it being a very good idea. Since so much of the forum base is 13-18 years old, it would either be very slow or full of lying kids acting even more childishly in it, just because it's "even funnier" (in their eyes) to do that in a place where you're not supposed to be anyway.