At 3/22/11 04:56 PM, SnoopyChicken wrote:

At 3/22/11 04:51 PM, Makakaov wrote: My point is that the times change opinions on things. Now we think it's disguisting, in 400 years it might be something normal to people.

You're point is retarded, in 400 years it might be OK to kill people, it doesn't mean it isn't a crime you should be punished for now though.

You are the only retarded thing in this thread.

What i meant was that morality changes with the time. The pedophilia might be disguisting to people now, but on 400 years it may be treated like homosexuality is treated now.

And the crime thing of course. You think it's a crime because that's what morality says. If the moral values change, the list of disguisting and unmoral things change.

Your opinion on most of the things, "crimes" is dependent on what times you live in. That makes you a single match in a box, which will get burned eventualy, being a stupid match for it's whole life.

Learn History, adapt knowledge, learn to be tolerant, an open minded.

Or just stay a stupid blockhead who throws insults everywhere.

I bet she was tight.

At 3/21/11 10:37 PM, zalecot wrote: Honestly they don't deserve to be put into prison. They were honestly not aware she was under age, and she did not complain.

Though this is statuatory rape, the charges probably won't be 25-30. More like 15-20, but still....

I dont care how stupid you are, you dont mistake a flat chested, no asses, baby teeth having 11 year old for an 18 year old. These guys knew what was up. Bunch of pigs.

But to OP, yes, I get where youre coming from, and I agree.

The one argument ITT in favor of letting the suspects go free seems to be that the girl consented, and the one argument ITT against that seems to be that anyone who would support it is a sick fuck. I addressed both of those points on the third page, but here it is again:

At 3/22/11 03:59 AM, LordZeebmork wrote: Anyway, it's perfectly possible for people around that age to want to participate in sexual activities, and it's perfectly possible that they'll regret it later. (calling this one from experience here, although I'll admit that it was mostly because the guy turned into a total asshole) The punishments are a bit harsh, I'd say, but why not err on the side of caution here? Give the actual victims some legal recourse and let the kids who actually want it just make sure the story never breaks.

Hawt.

But srsly, WTF?

At 3/22/11 03:16 PM, Makakaov wrote:

At 3/22/11 03:01 PM, Cootie wrote: LOL at the people defending these guys. You cannot have sex with an 11 year old rape or no rape. Also, even if it were legal only sick fucks would do it. Shows how desperate and fucked up you guys are.

If It was 1632 you'd be okay with looking at girl raped and killed by some bandits, so shut your puppet mouth.

in the 17th century you could be punished for not covering up "inappropriate" areas such as ankles

i'm sure they would have executed these apes and not just jailed them

this was even more inappropriate in that era than in ours

sure, you could legally marry girls at 12 years old in that era but it was largely aristocrats who did that and rarely did they have sex with them until they reached physical maturity

in that era marriage wasn't a license to fuck your wife and most people treated it with a far greater deal of respect

I'm going to post my opinion on this matter now I guess.

Firstly this girl asked for it, just keep that in mind first off. Now that is against the law and the morals imposed on us today, but heres the thing, it's in human nature to fuck girls. They didn't know she was 11 so she was probably really developed, I've seen it before. If she looked to be about 15-16 and hot and she said "stick it in me" not one of you would fucking deny her. Just like it is in our nature to be greedy,bully people, and HAVE SEX and lots of it. It's all about ideology here folks, There was no problem with this less then 200 years ago but now it's a fucking problem. I got to ask this, if it's in our human nature is it wrong? No it isn't, we were meant to be savage bastards and it shows todays in the actions that we partake in. Were wrong, we have evolved way past what we were supposed to be, but no matter how hard we try, that animal instinct is still there. Some of us act on it some of us don't, that's life. The people who act on it are "criminals" but honestly there not criminals. They are acting on there instinct. Let me not stray to far, anyways it's in our nature to want and crave sex. She offered she looked way older than 11 why the fuck not? This dick blowing cunt should receive time if they do. Bottom line she wanted it they supplied it.

You know what's interesting, why the fuck 11 years old and younger too young to consent. Who gets to draw the line in the sand and say it's too young? Does a fucking light show happen when you're 12 making it perfectly fine? No it fucking doesn't, society is filled with idiots trying to ignore what they really are and cover it up with bullshit laws.

I don't see the problem here, under the dictionary definition of rape this case doesn't measure up so it isn't fucking rape. She wanted a good time they wanted a good time, they got what they wanted she got what she wanted that's all. Let's leave it at that.

At 3/22/11 05:33 PM, NeptuneHD wrote: I'm going to post my opinion on this matter now I guess.

Finally some sense in this thread.

pwnd

At 3/21/11 10:37 PM, homor wrote: There is no such thing as consensual sex with an eleven year old, if you have sex with an eleven year old, you are a fucking creep and belong in jail. End of story, period.

This. Just this.

At 3/22/11 05:49 PM, slayer727 wrote: That's pretty fucked up. No matter how you justify it, think for a second. If an ll year old girl asked you and a bunch of friends to fuck her, you would have to be pretty screwed up to even think about considering it. I'm not sure what law that breaks, but there must be one.

If the law restricts basic human nature then the law is the problem not the person, I'm 15 and I wouldn't say no if she was developed for her age.

If she looked overage to a reasonable degree then no, they dont deserve prison.

And for the people who dont seem to know, since underage people cant give consent, sex with them is rape even if they try to give you consent. In this case she wasnt forced to have sex but she cant give consent so its rape.

Some horribly ghetto kid wrote an essay about this in my class. It was just fantastic, and I wish I could put it up on my fridge.

I'm pretty horrified by the amount of people here trying to justify it.

You just don't do that kind of thing. If the idea of gang-raping an 11 year old, whether she's willing or not, doesn't grate against your very morals, you're a sick fuck.

A 14 year old, yeah you could confuse for someone older if they were well developed, but an 11 year old?
There's no fucking way you could say an 11 year old looks like an 18 year old.

An 11 year old.

ELEVEN, and you're trying to justify it. Wow. Paedophiles.

That's what Robin Mead will do to ya.

At 3/22/11 06:22 PM, Shmossy wrote: An 11 year old.

ELEVEN, and you're trying to justify it. Wow. Paedophiles.

Despite what seems to be popular opinion, 11 year olds are indeed capable of human thought and decision making. Oh and a peadophile =/= rapist.

At 3/22/11 06:22 PM, Shmossy wrote: A 14 year old, yeah you could confuse for someone older if they were well developed, but an 11 year old?
There's no fucking way you could say an 11 year old looks like an 18 year old.

Yes you could, Ive heard of it many times before.

This is crazy. What's the world in for if 11-year-old girls want to be gang-raped?

Meh, let them do community work in an orphanage.

That'll teach 'em

:: The orphans I mean

But that's a Texas tradition!

Lack of equality, yes. The young girl was willing yet got away scott free, and the men who raped her got the full punishment. Consent or not, they should not have done what they did. It was an 11 year old girl!

At 3/22/11 12:37 PM, homor wrote: Let me make something clear here, buddy: This was child rape, clear cut, plain and simple.

Yeah, in this 100 year period in time it is child rape.
Along with other periods where things were illegal, during the renaissance metal patients were burned at the stake. It was illegal to to have depression... AND IT WAS TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY TY VERY MUCH.

VERY MUCH...the way society is reacting to this..also very similar to the way society reacted to witches. Don't you even question for a second where your morals and values come from? You were socialized to think a certain way, to behave a certain way, or else you were sanctioned.

This situation might be a bit more of a gray area if the girl was sixteen, but she wasn't, she was a child. And don't give that "BUT THEY THOUGHT SHE WAS OLDER!!!" or "SHE HAD THE MENTAL DEVELOPMENT OF A SIXTEEN YEAR OLD!!!" bullshit because we both know that's a bunch of crap.

We both don't know that. I still remember being 11, and I still remember saying I was mature enough to be 16, and I haven't noticed any difference. I still believe 11 year old me was as mature as a 16 year old... If it can happen to me, why can't it happen to a girl? Equality, mate.

Once again, she didn't get raped, she asked for it, she wanted it, she enjoyed it.

Says you, someone who doesn't know shit about how a child's mind works, someone who wasn't there, someone who has never talked to this girl in-person.

Once again, she didn't get raped, she assked for it, she wanted it, she enjoyed it. Says someone who's taken every psych class available and therefore knows HOW an 11 year old's mind works.

No, it's fucking perfectly normal,

Yep, you're defiantly a retard.

All this name calling. :(

Except when you're eleven, your mind isn't developed enough to handle things like sex. You shouldn't be "desiring" sex at that age. If you are, there is something seriously wrong.

I have always desired sex. When I was 6 I talked a girl into playing some doctor, she's not fucked up now, I'm not fucked up now. I don't think you understand the difference between willing sex and rape... You're obviously not listening to the user testimonials explaining that they were in slightly similar situations and nobody was hurt in the long run. You have a very closed mind and I understand I can't open it, so expect me to not respond to anything else you have to say because we're at an impasse.

At 3/22/11 12:43 PM, Skwurll wrote: As much as you guys want to argue over this, I think we can all agree that the world is a fucked up place.

Aye mate. Everything is all sorts of fucked nowadays.

Anyone else in favor of locking them all up for life? (Not just the people accused of rape, but the little girl too.)

I'm down for locking them all up. The rapists...the little girl.....all the parents, the jury, the lawyers, the judge...EVERYONE GETS LIFE!

At 3/22/11 01:18 PM, Darwin7 wrote:

At 3/21/11 10:31 PM, Senmetsu wrote: These men will now spent 25-30 years in prison. She has a few days of soreness from the gangsex and they get raped in the ass til 2040.

Are you seriously defending these dickheads that gang raped a little girl???

Defending the dickheads? Naw. Attacking the little girl? Yaw. Am I playing the Devil's Advocate for attention? Naw.

If you read my entire first post I have a friend doin 30 years for sex with a minor when he was 19. I won't re-tell the whole story, but you can see it in my first post and subsequent posts. This issue of girls acting older than they are and dressing slutty and FEEDING YOU EXTAZY AND TAKING YOUR PANTSO FF WITH HER TEETH AFTER DOWNING HALF A BOTTLE OF JACK...and getting off scott free because "they didn't know any better." Bull. fucking. shit. I knew better at 11. They fucking do too.

I think in some situations the "mandatory minimum sentencing" is a tad extreme. There are cases where the girl was soooooooo seriously in the wrong and got off scott free.

After my friend got 30 years:
The little girl, and her family, got in no trouble for possessing exstasy, got in no trouble for giving their 11 year old a half a bottle of jack, got in no trouble for letting men come over to have sex with their daughter (5 guys have done this so far and they've been home and in the room EVERY TIME...They see the pills, the booze, the sex...and do nothing about it until the next day when its PRISON TIME FOR THAT GUY). Her family has never had a charge against them...even with all the drugs and underage drinking and giving her packs of cigarettes so she looks older...

At 3/22/11 01:38 PM, atypop wrote: 11 year old girls do not have the right to decide when they are ready for sex.
And those men/boys should not have raped her, whether or not she wanted it.

I noticed you said 11 year old girls do not have the right to decide yadda yadda... lets just go back...

"11 year old girls"

Do 11 year old boys have a right to decide when they're ready for sex? That's when I knew I was ready and to this day I stand firm that I was ready for sex at 11 years old....14 years later. I think if any trauma were to surface it would have done so by this point.

At 3/22/11 01:39 PM, SnoopyChicken wrote:

Yes it is rape, legally she cannot consent

Ah ha! So you admit it! LEGALLY she cannot consent.

Psychologically and physically though, its possible that was able to consent?

This thread is more about fighting the laws that govern the modern world... so yeah, legally she can't consent... but you specified the legalities of it and haven't focused on the emotional aspect of it.

Legally I know smoking pot is against the law, yet I do it.
I know that driving without my license is against the law, I do that too.

There are many laws in this world that are harsh, or just plain strange. Google "blue book laws" and you'll see all the crazy laws we have that we don't question or do anything about. We just accept them as laws because its too much time and money to change anything BACK.

One girl gets raped and murdered by a very bad man long ago and suddenly anyone who has sex with a willing participant that was the age of the previous girl has to go to prison for life. The two situations can be VERY DIFFERENT, yet we treat them as the same. Every case is unique. Every case has the right to its own punishment instead of this stupid mandatory BS.

Where's the law for all those priests that raped kids? WE KNOW THEY DID IT. We know as surely as we know that these men raped this little girl. We know it as surely as Megan or Jessica, but there's no Aaron's Law. There's no Mike's Law. There really IS still this illusion that girls are more fragile and sacred than boys. Rape a girl an take her virginity? THATS PRISON TIME. Rape a boy and tear his little ass apart? COMMUNITY SERVICE AND RETIREMENT!

At 3/22/11 02:28 PM, SPLINTERCELL58 wrote: People are spending crazy amounts of time in jail because of this.

Yes. Yes they are. >:-[

At 3/22/11 02:11 PM, Gagsy wrote: I'd say she has repressed things. Perhaps in a few months the shock of what happened will hit her like a ton of bricks.

I hope she hasn't repressed anything. I think you're the first person to bring that up... Being that I'm on the other side I saw that argument but chose not to mention it because it makes my case look bad :P But yeah.... if she's repressed a lot of sadness because of this, then perhaps some of these guys need some jail.

Still responding to stuffz, just outta characters.

Meanwhile at OP's house

At 3/22/11 02:13 PM, Makakaov wrote: Perhaps nobody will remember about her in that time. If she will, I'll be convinced. Now arguing about it more has no real sense.

You and Gagsy brought up good points back and forth, in a peaceful manner, and I commend you. I agree that after I get done this post there's no real point to arguing anymore. Thanks to both of you for bringing up the sides maturely :)

At 3/22/11 03:01 PM, Cootie wrote: LOL at the people defending these guys. You cannot have sex with an 11 year old rape or no rape. Also, even if it were legal only sick fucks would do it. Shows how desperate and fucked up you guys are.

Aw, Cootie, you lol'd at me <3

Its true you shouldn't have sex with 11 year olds rape or no rape, but the point i'm bringing up is not really as "defending these guys" as more "attacking the laws that will sentence these guys". Sometimes the 11 year old has it coming a little more than most 11 year olds.

At 3/22/11 03:32 PM, SnoopyChicken wrote:

Hurr durr we aren't living in 1632, we know better

Do we? Do we really know better? What proof do you have that we..know better?

I feel as if we know MORE, but I wouldn't call that BETTER.

I don't really want to get personal but the people saying this is OK are sick fucks.

Fiesty :3

*****************RANDOM INFO*********************
You can see the age of consent by country!
****************************************
****************

At 3/22/11 05:04 PM, Makakaov wrote: You are the only retarded thing in this thread.

A shit ton of win followed by the finishing blow:

Learn History, adapt knowledge, learn to be tolerant, an open minded.

Or just stay a stupid blockhead who throws insults everywhere.

Good job! Hell, I think I'm pretty much done with this thread after seeing you come in and win all over the place. There's nothing left to do after you and Gagsy.

At 3/22/11 09:49 PM, JohnnyDamon wrote: Meanwhile at OP's house

HAY, THATS ME AND FRIDAY <3

But hey guise guess what? This is officially my longest thread ever. I won my goal! :D

At 3/22/11 09:47 PM, Senmetsu wrote:

At 3/22/11 12:37 PM, homor wrote: Let me make something clear here, buddy: This was child rape, clear cut, plain and simple.

Yeah, in this 100 year period in time it is child rape.
Along with other periods where things were illegal, during the renaissance metal patients were burned at the stake. It was illegal to to have depression... AND IT WAS TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY TY VERY MUCH.

VERY MUCH...the way society is reacting to this..also very similar to the way society reacted to witches. Don't you even question for a second where your morals and values come from? You were socialized to think a certain way, to behave a certain way, or else you were sanctioned.

This situation might be a bit more of a gray area if the girl was sixteen, but she wasn't, she was a child. And don't give that "BUT THEY THOUGHT SHE WAS OLDER!!!" or "SHE HAD THE MENTAL DEVELOPMENT OF A SIXTEEN YEAR OLD!!!" bullshit because we both know that's a bunch of crap.

We both don't know that. I still remember being 11, and I still remember saying I was mature enough to be 16, and I haven't noticed any difference. I still believe 11 year old me was as mature as a 16 year old... If it can happen to me, why can't it happen to a girl? Equality, mate.

Once again, she didn't get raped, she asked for it, she wanted it, she enjoyed it.

Says you, someone who doesn't know shit about how a child's mind works, someone who wasn't there, someone who has never talked to this girl in-person.

Once again, she didn't get raped, she assked for it, she wanted it, she enjoyed it. Says someone who's taken every psych class available and therefore knows HOW an 11 year old's mind works.

No, it's fucking perfectly normal,

Yep, you're defiantly a retard.

All this name calling. :(

Except when you're eleven, your mind isn't developed enough to handle things like sex. You shouldn't be "desiring" sex at that age. If you are, there is something seriously wrong.

I have always desired sex. When I was 6 I talked a girl into playing some doctor, she's not fucked up now, I'm not fucked up now. I don't think you understand the difference between willing sex and rape... You're obviously not listening to the user testimonials explaining that they were in slightly similar situations and nobody was hurt in the long run. You have a very closed mind and I understand I can't open it, so expect me to not respond to anything else you have to say because we're at an impasse.

Thanks for the back up. It clearly seems homor does not want to accept something. Because his arguments seem to just be name calling and 100% assumptions, which is weird because he reprimands ME for assuming that he assumes are completely wrong. I'm surprised this could have actually turned into pseudo religious argument lol. I'm done with this kid, he's really an arrogant prick and most of the time just tried to pepper his arguments with insults, that's enough to tell me he's not going to have an open mind. I'll still keep reading :3

At 3/22/11 09:47 PM, Senmetsu wrote: Yeah, in this 100 year period in time it is child rape.

It was child rape a thousand years ago, too.

It was just people were too fucking retarded to realize it.

Along with other periods where things were illegal, during the renaissance metal patients were burned at the stake. It was illegal to to have depression... AND IT WAS TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY TY VERY MUCH.

Yeah, exactly. We're talking about an age where people thought it was a good idea to cover yourself in leeches when you get a cold.

The reason we don't think it's okay to fuck eleven year olds and burn mental patients is because we as a society saw how it was effecting the people around us and decided "Holy shit, this isn't good!"

People didn't just suddenly decide not to fuck children because they got bored of it, they stopped fucking children because they realized it wasn't good for the child, even if at the time they said they wanted it.

Once again, she didn't get raped, she assked for it, she wanted it, she enjoyed it. Says someone who's taken every psych class available and therefore knows HOW an 11 year old's mind works.

Hahaha, oh cute.

You're seriously telling me that since you took a class, you're suddenly an expert on child psychology?

What exactly do you define as "every class imaginable" ? Do you actually have a degree? Do you have a job as a psychologist?

Or did you just take a couple of classes in Highschool?

Even if you DID take every class imaginable, there is absolutely no way you could know what's rattling in this girl's head, see as you've never talked to her or had any sessions with her.

But by all means, keep telling me "SHE TOTALLY WANTED IT BRO! SHE ENJOYED IT!"

By the way, i'd like to know where this whole "She wanted it!" thing comes from, in the articles I've read so far, there's absolutely no mention of her saying she wanted it, or that she said she enjoyed it.

I have always desired sex. When I was 6 I talked a girl into playing some doctor, she's not fucked up now, I'm not fucked up now.

Well, you're sitting here defending child rapists, so i'd say you're a pretty fucked up.

Hahaha, nah just kidding bro.

I don't think you understand the difference between willing sex and rape... You're obviously not listening to the user testimonials explaining that they were in slightly similar situations and nobody was hurt in the long run.

Someone who's mentally damaged obviously isn't going to admit it if they're messed up enough.

Hell, some people with mental problems probably aren't even going to realize it.

You have a very closed mind and I understand I can't open it, so expect me to not respond to anything else you have to say because we're at an impasse.

And now you're running away from the argument.
Nah bro, just kidding again.

This was a good debate, sorry for the personal attacks, that was uncalled for. Please understand that this conversation has just gotten very heated and words were thrown around that i didn't mean.

At 3/22/11 10:13 PM, ifureadthisdie wrote:

This guy actually IS a retard, though.

It clearly seems homor does not want to accept something.

Yes, just because i don't agree with you means i just don't want to accept your godly opinion, oh master king of all opinions.

I'm done with this kid, he's really an arrogant prick

Oh shit son, is that some pot calling the kettle black?

and most of the time just tried to pepper his arguments with insults,

Yep, just keep dodging what i'm trying to say to you and reducing anything i say to just "assumptions and insults" in your head so you don't have to respond to any of the actual points i'm making.

I'm sorry, but this guy actually IS a fucking retard.
Sweet Jesus shit, he's jsut so dumb.

At 3/23/11 01:01 AM, homor wrote:

At 3/22/11 10:13 PM, ifureadthisdie wrote:

This guy actually IS a retard, though.

It clearly seems homor does not want to accept something.

Yes, just because i don't agree with you means i just don't want to accept your godly opinion, oh master king of all opinions.

No numbnuts, in the sense of an open mind. It really seems like you do NOT want to even consider or think about the other sides to the argument. You think you're right and that is final, you're just arguing to make that clear, not to make sense out of the actual topic.

and most of the time just tried to pepper his arguments with insults,

Yep, just keep dodging what i'm trying to say to you and reducing anything i say to just "assumptions and insults" in your head so you don't have to respond to any of the actual points i'm making.

I did reply to your point, and you replied with literally the same shit peppered with more insults. So yes, that is how i rationalized your argument, and I'm not the only one to call you out on it.

I'm sorry, but this guy actually IS a fucking retard.
Sweet Jesus shit, he's jsut so dumb.

You can call me dumb all you want, it's not gonna help you prove anything. I don't know what you're so afraid of, you literally seem like you're blatantly insulting me as if it was some sort of defense mechanism. At first i just thought you didn't have much to argue with so you filled it with that but it seems like you're using the sarcasm and calling another person dumb in your oh so creative ways is your method of not showing a sign of weakness.

It's like you're scared shitless to lose this argument. But whatever, you're really closed minded, I've read a lot of what others have had to say on both sides, you're the only one who is making so little sense and acting so arrogant.

That user homor, is one of the most mentally unstable people I've ever encountered.
I'm not sure if he's trolling the entire thread, or if he's actually serious about half of the shit he's saying.

Well here's hoping this doesn't sound like rambling

0_o?

First...yes, we have taken the whole Inquisition behaviour with anything even resembling paedo behaviour way too far. The whole point of the justice and mental health systems to rehabilitate, not punish criminals and/or mentally ill people.

But...its statutory rape. The whole point of that is essentially to state that since children...are well children, they will not know what's always best for them. Yes, there tends to be the occasional exception to that rule. But that's the reason they're exceptions, cause the chance of a child actually knowing highly sensitive subjects to the point they can make reasoned decisions is very low.

Especially since most parents nowadays seem to completely fail at parenting.

Does this mean the girl should be let off scot free? Fuck no, her and her parents need a good lesson why its not considered good to allow your daughter/yourself to act like a slut. Does that mean she and them has full responsibility for this? No. She is a 11 year old girl. I have seen 11 year old girls. I have yet to confuse one with a post-pubescent woman.

Just let's stop it with the Paedo Inquisition, alright? For every one scumbag we get, we probably ruin over 100 people's lives and reputations.

in before the "You're a paedo!!one1" accusations....

Ok which one of you Newgrounders did it?