OK! i am going crazy trying to mix something right, it usually isnt a problem but how the heck do you make a detuned synth not cause interference with a distorted kick when they are both so fragmented, if you use one the its hard not to mix out the character of the other when eq'ing! especially if im detuning a bass..........it doesnt sound bad but it just isnt pure enough for me.
suggestions? this is along the lines of happy hardcore or hard style/hard house
Play with knobs and effects until you get the sound you want.
It takes time
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
NOO lol playing haha, i hate that, there has got to be some compression technique...some sort of idk anymore ill wait for a good reply , but thanks for the help suggestion
No one should tell you what to do to make a detuned synth.
You need to learn to figure stuff out on your own or you will never get anywhere here or anywhere.
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
At 5/2/09 04:07 AM, Slipstreamer wrote: No one should tell you what to do to make a detuned synth.
You need to learn to figure stuff out on your own or you will never get anywhere here or anywhere.
Thats a little harsh now. Sometimes you just need some help to find the first step, and from there youll be able to climb the staircase.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to help. Just twiddle with knobs man.
At 5/2/09 04:07 AM, Slipstreamer wrote: No one should tell you what to do to make a detuned synth.
You need to learn to figure stuff out on your own or you will never get anywhere here or anywhere.
Jesus Christ man, are you fucking serious? For one, the question was never "how to make a detuned synth", and secondly, did you figure out how to walk, talk, read and write completely by yourself?
I understand it is possible that you had to figure it out on your own because your parents thought "heck, this kid's gotta figure stuff out on his own, otherwise he'll never get anywhere in life", then sent you into the depths of the Amazon rainforest where you had to live and compete with animals in order to survive, then you eventually figured out, completely on your own, how to use a computer, and now you're sitting there in the rainforest spewing out your stupid bullshit. That's perfectly fine and I can respect that, but you must understand that unlike you, most people today live in a society that makes progress because people communicate, help each other out and share ideas and knowledge.
Oh and for thread starter's question, in many electronic genres, a common way to avoid mud is sidechaining compression. For example, if you sidechain the kick and the bass, the bass will become more quiet when the kick is triggered. This will make it easier to avoid frequencies clashing, and also might give the track a nice "pumping" sound. This can be done with any other instrument as well, pads, leads, vocals or whatever. You're using Reason right? This should help you out.
If you don't like the sound of sidechaining compression, you'll have to equalize stuff. There is some sort of spectrum analyzer in most sequencers (they're often bundled with equalizers). A spectrum analyzer will visualize the frequency spectrum of an instrument or a song, and will help you pin-point the clashing frequencies so you can eliminate them. You can build a spectrum analyzer effect in Reason as well (or you could download one that I made: mono and stereo unit). There's only 32 bands though, so it's very limited.
You may want to give yourself an easier time by panning them slightly to the opposite side (say, kick in the right, synth in the left). If you do this you'll be able to give each part some more space, but then please be careful- extreme panning will give most people a headache.
@Slipstreamer: Why would the Audio forum be here if everyone has to figure things out for themselves?
@SBB: I wouldn't really pan a kick, I think it's best to keep it centered.
@Darren-M: If you're not using Reason but you're using FL, I just explained sidechaining in there on here.
Another, much easier strategy is gating, if you're not making gabber (where the kickdrums need to last all of 1 bar).
Just use volume envelopes: Set the hold to 2 beats on each item, and turn all the others down completely. It will make it so the kick/bass cuts off after playing for 2 beats, and stops them from interfering if you are using the standard k-b-k-b pattern.
At 5/2/09 06:35 AM, SBB wrote:At 5/2/09 04:07 AM, Slipstreamer wrote: No one should tell you what to do to make a detuned synth.Jesus Christ man, are you fucking serious? For one, the question was never "how to make a detuned synth", and secondly, did you figure out how to walk, talk, read and write completely by yourself?
You need to learn to figure stuff out on your own or you will never get anywhere here or anywhere.
I understand it is possible that you had to figure it out on your own because your parents thought "heck, this kid's gotta figure stuff out on his own, otherwise he'll never get anywhere in life", then sent you into the depths of the Amazon rainforest where you had to live and compete with animals in order to survive, then you eventually figured out, completely on your own, how to use a computer, and now you're sitting there in the rainforest spewing out your stupid bullshit. That's perfectly fine and I can respect that, but you must understand that unlike you, most people today live in a society that makes progress because people communicate, help each other out and share ideas and knowledge.
Oh and for thread starter's question, in many electronic genres, a common way to avoid mud is sidechaining compression. For example, if you sidechain the kick and the bass, the bass will become more quiet when the kick is triggered. This will make it easier to avoid frequencies clashing, and also might give the track a nice "pumping" sound. This can be done with any other instrument as well, pads, leads, vocals or whatever. You're using Reason right? This should help you out.
If you don't like the sound of sidechaining compression, you'll have to equalize stuff. There is some sort of spectrum analyzer in most sequencers (they're often bundled with equalizers). A spectrum analyzer will visualize the frequency spectrum of an instrument or a song, and will help you pin-point the clashing frequencies so you can eliminate them. You can build a spectrum analyzer effect in Reason as well (or you could download one that I made: mono and stereo unit). There's only 32 bands though, so it's very limited.
You may want to give yourself an easier time by panning them slightly to the opposite side (say, kick in the right, synth in the left). If you do this you'll be able to give each part some more space, but then please be careful- extreme panning will give most people a headache.
-----------------------------
holy crap yes i wasnt asking how to detune lol!
thanks for all your suggestions but i still have problems here, i tried side chaining earlier last night and it really subtracter from the legato style of the bass i wanted and i wasnt looking for the pumping compressed sound, it just wasnt right for the song, and i want to keep my kick centered and mono, so maybe i should pan the synth good idea here, that will atleast create some space. and as far as eq goes i am afraid of losing some of the overtones that the detuned sound might carry, but i will pan around in my freq space to see where it doesnt subtract from the tone. the other problem with sidechaining is that the distorted kicks in my sample bank, usually are farely long, which is what i want because you cant hear the crunch on the tail end of it otherwise.
since seeing that you guys havent said anything crazy that i never thought of i am going to really process the synth and kick hard, and hope that they end up nicely sitting together.
all this info was helpful because i am seeing that there is no magic to this heh! just the usual and proper accuracy
thanks everyone :D
At 5/2/09 03:05 AM, Darren-M wrote: OK! i am going crazy trying to mix something right, it usually isnt a problem but how the heck do you make a detuned synth?
@ Darren-M:
So you say your not trying to find out how to make a detuned synth
@ SBB:
Lets just tell everyone how to do everything! HURRAY!
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
.... lol im not a newb -_-,
im asking for advice not a how to. or even just someone to say something like "well its been my experience that you should put a soft knee slope on the compressor and give it a ratio of 2:1 for the punchy effect, that might solve the problem" <--- i know that wont
At 5/2/09 06:51 PM, Slipstreamer wrote:At 5/2/09 03:05 AM, Darren-M wrote: OK! i am going crazy trying to mix something right, it usually isnt a problem but how the heck do you make a detuned synth?@ Darren-M:
So you say your not trying to find out how to make a detuned synth
You know, manipulating what someone says is kinda' pointless (and low). It's also a dumb extreme to take just to try prove someone wrong.
Anyways, I've noticed no one has mentioned a complimentary mix yet. A complimentary mix is where you'll cut-off or eliminate some of an instrument's frequencies to allow another instrument's frequencies to come through more (I dunno' if I've explained this right). Anyways, I was gonna' try explain how to do it myself but for the fear that I could fail miserably, check out this video (I think it's the one that explains complimentary mixing). Anyways, I hope this has helped.
At 5/2/09 06:35 AM, SBB wrote:At 5/2/09 04:07 AM, Slipstreamer wrote: No one should tell you what to do to make a detuned synth.Jesus Christ man, are you fucking serious? For one, the question was never "how to make a detuned synth", and secondly, did you figure out how to walk, talk, read and write completely by yourself?
You need to learn to figure stuff out on your own or you will never get anywhere here or anywhere.
Well now I get in trouble all the time when I say things like this to ppl but because your a mod: you get off scott free. Don't be so rude! >:(
Anyways, I've noticed no one has mentioned a complimentary mix yet. A complimentary mix is where you'll cut-off or eliminate some of an instrument's frequencies to allow another instrument's frequencies to come through more (I dunno' if I've explained this right). Anyways, I was gonna' try explain how to do it myself but for the fear that I could fail miserably, check out this video (I think it's the one that explains complimentary mixing). Anyways, I hope this has helped.
No one mentioned it because the OP sounded like he didn't want to use EQ to nudge it in.
if you use one the its hard not to mix out the character of the other when eq'ing!
But I agree, EQ would've been my first suggestion because sidechaining can become so fiddly, and gating can sound even more pumpy if you go to one extreme, or can be next to useless if you err to the side of caution. Personally, EQ'ing the two items so that they no longer have such dissonant clashes at key frequencies would be my choice, along with possibly stereo widening the bass channel and stereo narrowing the kick so that they get a tiny bit more space without needing to be panned. That would be my choice of direction, personally.
At 5/2/09 06:51 PM, Slipstreamer wrote:At 5/2/09 03:05 AM, Darren-M wrote: OK! i am going crazy trying to mix something right, it usually isnt a problem but how the heck do you make a detuned synth?@ Darren-M:
So you say your not trying to find out how to make a detuned synth
@ SBB:
Lets just tell everyone how to do everything! HURRAY!
Lol! You mis-read his post thinking he was trying to make a detuned synth, and now you're trying to cover it up by altering the quote. Thats cute.
But through careful (read: quick read through) of the OPs post, anyone can see that hes trying to figure out how to keep the kick, and the DETUNED SYNTH THAT HE'S ALREADY MADE CAUSE HES NOT AN IDIOT from conflicting in the mix.
Geez.
Also, how the fuck is anyone supposed to learn anything without guidance? Even if he was trying to learn how to make a detuned synth (WHICH HES NOT), then what better place or way to learn than asking people with experience? Sure you can sit there forever, and maybe one day figure it out, but thats not even remotely efficient.
So, in summary, i utterly disagree with everything you have said.
Now to move on to the actual question of the thread:
Personally I have found what works best is to keep the kick boosted around 80 hz, and cut out lots of the really high frequencies, while cutting the low end off of the main synths, which gives it a nice balance IMO, and should help to keep them from conflicting. Perhaps not entirely, but its a start. Also if I'm wrong, then someone please correct me, cause i too could use the advice
ok , this is just the sort of think i wanted to hear!
thanks
What are you talking about Erkie?
1. I didn't "alter" the quote.
2. He clearly asked how to make a detuned synth.
3. He needs to learn how to ask a question.
I barely understood him in the first place.
If he looked on Google, he would find a Wikipedia article and many other great resources that would teach him how to detune.
But instead he makes a thread about and sets off your PMS.
rofl.
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
Slipstreamer you still didn't read his goddamn post. He's not asking how to detune a synth.
And omg lawl Erkie didn't even post in this thread... you mean Rawmin. Get your eyes checked.
Well what the fuck is he asking then?
lol
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
Oh shit your right, by the way he was talking about me I thought it was Erkie rofl.
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
Hey, Slipstreamer, made a sig for you.
No, but really dude, you need to work on your posting.
Haha enjoy your ban Erkie.
Don't insult people for misunderstanding things, and don't flame.
Besides, I've helped way more people with audio then you ever will.
In addition to that, I'm way smarter.
I have no idea what hes asking but maybe if he stated it better I would have known.
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
It sounds like your problem is not really with detuning as it is with frequencies clashing.
Detuning is a major pain is the @$$. If you're going for hardcore, try using minor/diminished keys instead of actually detuning the synth.
Another technique I like to use is with "dual-osc" synths. Synths that have two oscillators that you can mix. Most of these will have a tuning knob on them that allows you to tune in semitones. this is crazy useful compared to tuning (or transposing, rather) in hertz because you can get the detuned sound without playing out of key. It's also good for making powerchords, lol.
I'm not going to turn this thread into something else, but this is very troubling behavior, and I must respond for the last time
At 5/4/09 07:07 PM, Slipstreamer wrote: Haha enjoy your ban Erkie.
What ban? Nothing offensive was said.
Don't insult people for misunderstanding things, and don't flame.
I won't, however, I will keep users in check when they decide to act on their misunderstandings, resulting in consistent low quality posts that help no one.
The fact that you confused Rawmin for me because of the same icon only highlights your inability to patiently read and understand what is being posted.
Besides, I've helped way more people with audio then you ever will.
In addition to that, I'm way smarter.
I've published a newbie's guide and had it put into the AF sticky before you were even a member. (which is overdue for a revision).
What have you done except wonder around technical forums, being non-specific? I'd take that BBS Moderator comment out of your signature, you're a long ways from being taken seriously for that kind of job.
I think the question in this thread has been answered sufficiently on all ends.
SBB would have banned me if I make that sig with your name.
Don't you just love corrupt mods?
Your so ignorant, multiple people PM me EVERY DAY for help, plus, my first account on here is from 2001.
Keep flaming, I'd love to keep owning you until this thread gets locked.
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
Its also not about post count or sign-up date, its about the informality and validity of the posts.
If I made* ^ typo from last post
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
At 5/2/09 04:07 AM, Slipstreamer wrote: No one should tell you what to do to make a detuned synth.
You need to learn to figure stuff out on your own or you will never get anywhere here or anywhere.
You tell someone this AFTER you give them advice.
Certified audiophreak, lv 60.
At 5/4/09 10:31 PM, Slipstreamer wrote: Its also not about post count or sign-up date, its about the informality and validity of the posts.
If I made* ^ typo from last post
Dude, you're the one telling him he should figure it out on his own and that we shouldn't help people figure stuff out... He came here asking for help, so why don't we give him that help instead of saying figure it out yourself?
Anyways, Darren, you're gonna wanna look into Eqing for that. With the right amount of eqing, you can basically make anything sound alright together. I'm not sure exactly what sound youre looking for with the distorted synth so i can't really give
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