At 7/25/08 06:39 PM, SevenSeize wrote: I will agree with this statement.
The Joker, Harley, and Poison Ivy are the real reason I <3 Batman The Animated Series so much.

This the original animated series?

I remember wathcing bits and peices of it as a kid. I seem to recall they messed around with Two Face slightly and didn't make him as he should have been.

Am I the only one who watched that show and admired Batman? Here was this creature of utter will and determination who remembered how to be a good man. That's more impressive than any flamboyance.
In the episode where the villians put him to court and the district attorny said she was still going to fight for a city that didn't need Batman and he said "Me too" that cemented the idea of what a hero is to me. It;s not about tghe fight but about the fact there is a need to fight it.

I think when Batman is done right, he's a phenomenal character. I think the problem is Batman has NOT been done right often in the larger media the public views, and sometimes he gets fucked around a bit in his comic book too.

I thought the Batman played out on the cartoon was a brilliant version. The need to "sanitize" the character for a kids show kept them from using the crutch of just making him a jerk that a lot of writers use. They showed one of the more noble depictions of Batman is what I'm saying.

At 7/29/08 03:00 AM, stafffighter wrote: I thought the Batman played out on the cartoon was a brilliant version. The need to "sanitize" the character for a kids show kept them from using the crutch of just making him a jerk that a lot of writers use. They showed one of the more noble depictions of Batman is what I'm saying.

It certainly is a more noble depiction of batman, but personally, and this might jsut be because I've got a preference to anti-heroes and flawed heroes as charachters, but he seemed a bit 2D to me. It was very much the traditional good guy has found a reason and a way to help people, which is cool and all, but just leaves more to be desired in my mind.

I like the suggestions that Batmans response to his parents death isn't entirely normal and the idea that actually, the only thing that's keeping him from going down the path the Punisher does is his own will power to control that part of him which is slightly insane( I would say that he has to be in some way not totally sane. No sane man dresses up as a Bat and fights crime).

Lets face it, Bruce Wayne is a millionaire. If he wanted to he could fund all that cash he uses on Batman and everything and turn it into some form of private police force that works as a Not for profit type thing and helps more people than Batman ever could on his own. That's the sane thing to do. Not becoming the Dark Knight.

So yeah, whislt the animated series is good and it is quite a good depiction of Batman, and works wonderfully well for the target audience, its not the best in my mind. Still good though.

A private police force wouldn't really work because it's putting lives other than his own on the line. That's his big hang up and anything I say after this is secondary.
A private poilce force would be men doing jobs, which is nothing like Batman. They wouldn't have the same drive and certainly they wouldn't have the same level of ability. Also, it would be almost imposible for such a force to not resort to lethal means. And even if by and large they didn't somewhere down the line a mistake would be made.
Lastly, such a force would essentially create a police state. That would impose upon the people of Gotham rather than give them the sense of hope that having a super hero brings.

At 7/31/08 05:05 PM, stafffighter wrote: A private police force wouldn't really work because it's putting lives other than his own on the line. That's his big hang up and anything I say after this is secondary.

I agree it doesn't work with the personality that writers have given Batman, but it doesn't disprove the fact that they guy has mental issues.Hell it strengthens it. Anyone who refuses help on a monumental task such as cleanign up Gotham has to have soemthing wrong with him, whether it be trust issues, or just down right fear or phobia of getting other people hurt. A phobia is a mental illness and I'd say there's a case to be put forwrad that Batman has some form of phobia in regards to letting people down by not being able to protect them, hence why he won't let people help him that often.

Lastly, such a force would essentially create a police state. That would impose upon the people of Gotham rather than give them the sense of hope that having a super hero brings.

Really not seeing how that would happen. If a police force do their job properly and effectively they don't impose on the people. The hope the people of Gotham get is that their is someone out their dealing with the crime and the situation. Whether it be Batman or just regular police, or super polcie or whatever, they'd still get that hope as I see it.

Also, I would jsut like to say this:

Neil Gaiman is God-like.

That is all.

At 8/1/08 09:50 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I agree it doesn't work with the personality that writers have given Batman, but it doesn't disprove the fact that they guy has mental issues.Hell it strengthens it. Anyone who refuses help on a monumental task such as cleanign up Gotham has to have soemthing wrong with him, whether it be trust issues, or just down right fear or phobia of getting other people hurt. A phobia is a mental illness and I'd say there's a case to be put forwrad that Batman has some form of phobia in regards to letting people down by not being able to protect them, hence why he won't let people help him that often.

The Arkham Asylum: A serious House on Serious Earth explores the various characters mental insecurities quite nicely. Its a good read if any of you havent read it yet.

At 8/1/08 09:50 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: A phobia is a mental illness and I'd say there's a case to be put forwrad that Batman has some form of phobia in regards to letting people down by not being able to protect them, hence why he won't let people help him that often.

Not wanting to put other people in the line of fire is a sickness now?

Lastly, such a force would essentially create a police state. That would impose upon the people of Gotham rather than give them the sense of hope that having a super hero brings.

Really not seeing how that would happen. If a police force do their job properly and effectively they don't impose on the people. The hope the people of Gotham get is that their is someone out their dealing with the crime and the situation. Whether it be Batman or just regular police, or super polcie or whatever, they'd still get that hope as I see it.

There comes a line between protecting people and opressing them. That line is thrown around like a vollyball for political purposes but it does exist. What is it a Wayne founded police force could do that the regular police could not that wouldn't cross this line?

Also, I would jsut like to say this:

Neil Gaiman is God-like.

That is all.

I agree completly.

At 8/1/08 12:25 PM, CTM222 wrote: The Arkham Asylum: A serious House on Serious Earth explores the various characters mental insecurities quite nicely. Its a good read if any of you havent read it yet.

It is, but I guarantee theres going to be at least one Batman villian in there (Max Zeus) that may confuse those of you that haven't at least seen the 90's cartoon.

He's one of those characters that never ever gets used anymore.

At 8/5/08 10:44 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 8/1/08 12:25 PM, CTM222 wrote: The Arkham Asylum: A serious House on Serious Earth explores the various characters mental insecurities quite nicely. Its a good read if any of you havent read it yet.

It is, but I guarantee theres going to be at least one Batman villian in there (Max Zeus) that may confuse those of you that haven't at least seen the 90's cartoon.

Mogal goes crazy and thinks he's Zeus, builds a lightning cannon, Batman stops him. There's a really clever moment where Batman shows up and Zeus thinks he's Hades, the god of the underworld. Looking back it was a tip to the Justice League of that era supposibly being based on the greek gods. It wasen't said who was who but come on, Batman was Hades.

He's one of those characters that never ever gets used anymore.

The world needs more lightning cannons.

People were talking about Alan Moore's take on Swamp thing-is that a good read?

At 8/9/08 10:26 AM, ngman7 wrote: People were talking about Alan Moore's take on Swamp thing-is that a good read?

From everything I've ever heard about it, including a friend or two that's read it, yeah, it's worth your time.

Has anyone read futurama comics? I get impation between movies and I want to know if these are good enough to be considered appitizers.

At 8/20/08 06:43 PM, stafffighter wrote: Has anyone read futurama comics? I get impation between movies and I want to know if these are good enough to be considered appitizers.

I've read a few. They're alright. Entertaining but not astounding really.

It's good enough to tide yopu over, but not to warrant a subsciption in my opinion.

I'm currently reading The Boys and Walking Dead.

I'll do sigs for anyone who wants them.

At 8/20/08 09:06 PM, Robotussin wrote: I'm currently reading The Boys and Walking Dead.

I'll do sigs for anyone who wants them.

The boys is being made into a movie. I see no way for main stream media to accept that premise. Like the would try to make it grimey but they'd end up with something that looked like saw. I'm not saying they would make a saw super hero movie bit I'm talking about the look. That would suck.
In other Garth Ennis news I just read the first Punisher without him. I almost feel the need to make a family guy cut scene to illistrate how anti-climatic it is.

God I love fucking ebay and Amazon!

I bought a copy of Last Days of The Justice Society

I've got bids in on auctions for "Armageddon: Inferno" which is the JSA's return from limbo, the 1991 mini, and a mini from 04 I knew nothing about.

Also bought the post-crisis origin by Roy Thomas, and America vs. The Justice Society, one of the last Earth-2 JSA stories.

Damn this has been a great week for my JSA collection! I almost never thought I'd get to read this stuff, and I've gotten it pretty damn cheap too!

I finaly decided to get back into comics a while back.
Trying to read as much as possible of stuff like the Ultimates and Walking Dead.

At 8/31/08 04:26 AM, stafffighter wrote: In other Garth Ennis news I just read the first Punisher without him. I almost feel the need to make a family guy cut scene to illistrate how anti-climatic it is.

Are you really surprised?

I picked up Volume two of Punisher War Journal and I have to say whilst its not as good as the Max series and the dude writing it aint on Ennis level there is something enjoyable in seeing Frank Castle refer to himself as Captain America.

At 9/4/08 09:32 AM, qwertyowen wrote: I finaly decided to get back into comics a while back.
Trying to read as much as possible of stuff like the Ultimates and Walking Dead.

Ultimates you can't get wrong with. Walking dead is one of those books I keep running across, and I keep going "you know, I keep hearing good things, I should get this...oh hell, there's a new volume of this other series I'm collecting". At some point, I think you hit saturation to where you've got just too much your reading regularly to really have something new penetrate.

At 9/4/08 09:53 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote:

At 8/31/08 04:26 AM, stafffighter wrote: In other Garth Ennis news I just read the first Punisher without him. I almost feel the need to make a family guy cut scene to illistrate how anti-climatic it is.

Are you really surprised?

Well it's not like there had been no good Punisher writers before Garth Ennis. I mean I am a big fan but I knew this was coming long enough to prepare and see what the new guy brings. If magnificent 7 was one guy is what he brings, with an r rating for pointless foul language.

I picked up Volume two of Punisher War Journal and I have to say whilst its not as good as the Max series and the dude writing it aint on Ennis level there is something enjoyable in seeing Frank Castle refer to himself as Captain America.

I just thought that was horrible and insulting. i ranted about it on the site. Like the part where he's like "do you think you can kill Captian America?" It's like "Frank, you're wearing the suit BECAUSE someone killed Captian America."
For reall quality and viserial stuff I suggest the "Long, cold dark" The most recent Max collection. Basically, a while ago Frank had a dalience with this c.i.a woman. Turns out she had his kid and never told him. This big league badguy with a mad on for Frank finds out and decides to fuck with Frank like it's never been done.
What I loved about this is it went into the character. This is about what makes him the Punisher and what makes him Frank Castle. It just rings very true. Also, be prepared for just horror flick violence.

At 9/6/08 04:17 AM, stafffighter wrote: I just thought that was horrible and insulting. i ranted about it on the site. Like the part where he's like "do you think you can kill Captian America?" It's like "Frank, you're wearing the suit BECAUSE someone killed Captian America."

Yeah, I kind of got the idea that it was supposed to be referencing the ideal of Captain America. At that moment Frank kind of thought he was Captain America because at that time there was no one else to be Captain America. So I suppose at the time he was * technically* Captain America, at least in his head.

I agree that whatever the affect the writer was going for didn't exactly work, but insulting? Meh, maybe its because I'm British and don't particualrly like Captain America that much anyway.

For reall quality and viserial stuff I suggest the "Long, cold dark" The most recent Max collection. Basically, a while ago Frank had a dalience with this c.i.a woman. Turns out she had his kid and never told him. This big league badguy with a mad on for Frank finds out and decides to fuck with Frank like it's never been done.

That the one where Barracuda comes back? I think that's the only one of the Max series that I'm missing at the moment.

What I loved about this is it went into the character. This is about what makes him the Punisher and what makes him Frank Castle. It just rings very true. Also, be prepared for just horror flick violence.

Sounds awesome. If I didn't need to wait around for some Gas Repair man to come to my house I'd be quite happy to go out and get it today = (

No insult to you Nitro but i hate quoting in complex posts.

1. If you want to understand what Captian America means to people just think two words "Marvel's Superman" This guy is the best of the best, raised with solid purpose and ideals. Basically he's the standard bearer. Spiderman and Batman might get a lot of the action crowd but the word "hope" is attached to one person.

2. Yeah, that's the one with Baracuda. I was trying to put it in terms non readers wouldn't be alienated. You know who Baracudda is is. Now imagine him kidnapping Frank's baby. It's even better than what you're thinking.

At 9/6/08 03:48 PM, stafffighter wrote: 1. If you want to understand what Captian America means to people just think two words "Marvel's Superman" This guy is the best of the best, raised with solid purpose and ideals. Basically he's the standard bearer. Spiderman and Batman might get a lot of the action crowd but the word "hope" is attached to one person.

Eh, I suppose, but again, I dislike Superman as well. I guess cause I was kind of raised on the anti-heroes I've never really ahd much of an appreciation for the Golden Age Do-gooders with absoulte morals and never seem to have a crisis.

But then again, I could be totally wrong on this as I've never really read that much Superman or Captain America. I'm kind of toying with the idea of picking up the Death of Captain America stuff but am undecided at the moment. You, or anyone, else read it?

2. Yeah, that's the one with Baracuda. I was trying to put it in terms non readers wouldn't be alienated. You know who Baracudda is is. Now imagine him kidnapping Frank's baby. It's even better than what you're thinking.

Excuse me whislt I wipe the drool off of my face... will be buying this week at some point :P

At 9/7/08 12:08 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Eh, I suppose, but again, I dislike Superman as well. I guess cause I was kind of raised on the anti-heroes I've never really ahd much of an appreciation for the Golden Age Do-gooders with absoulte morals and never seem to have a crisis.

Some of those guys DID have crisis's...at least in retcons they did. Hell, the JSA retroactively thought they'd killed a man once...the original super hero team. killed. a. man. Let that shit swirl around for awhile. Turned out they didn't, but the men involved believed they had for YEARS. Hourman was a drug addict, I think Dr. Mid-Nite (the original) actually did kill the man who murdered his lover, um, who else was fucked up? Let's see...

Point is, Superman is pretty much built in as mpeachable symbol of hope, and Cap has a lot of that too, and it's hard to really relate to that. But just about every other character of the Golden Age has successfully had some dark added to their make up.

Also, if you aren't reading Justice Society of America right now, you should. They're trailing a god that a Superman from the Kingdom Come earth swears will bring about a world where super humans are out of control and practically destroy everything by naming one his herald...but all he's done is help people and improve their lives...until last issue when he named that herald, Magog...and he's one of the JSA's own. With Geoff Johns behind the wheel and his track record on doing big awesome epics involving the JSA, the ever expanding "Thy Kingdom Come" arc should finish as a "can't miss" for super heroics.

Hope is the primary driver in all heroes no matter how dark. Hope of protecting the innocent, hope for redemption, hope to keep others from the kind of pain they're gone through, hope to destroy a certain evil. Without hope there's no reason to go out there.

At 9/10/08 08:37 PM, stafffighter wrote: Hope is the primary driver in all heroes no matter how dark. Hope of protecting the innocent, hope for redemption, hope to keep others from the kind of pain they're gone through, hope to destroy a certain evil. Without hope there's no reason to go out there.

That component always has to be there. I think the problem with Superman and Cap primarily is they've turned into symbols rather then characters, which is one of those things that makes me oftentimes question the system of publishing an ongoing series just keep it ongoing. I think the more powerful and idealized a character is, the harder it's going to be to keep churning out great, or even good story ideas for them month after month. Superman is probably a prime example of a character that would do well in continous ongoing ensemble exposure (like in Justice League) but maybe having solo stories coming out in a more elongated schedule to make people miss him, and to give the creative teams more time to really create something special. Morrison and Quitely have been doing just that with All-Star Superman.

At 9/8/08 11:50 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Also, if you aren't reading Justice Society of America right now, you should. T

Shall look into it, your description does make it sound quite interesting.

Anyone got a hold of Gaiman's Marvel 1602? I picked it up and I have to say whislt it was quite good I felt slightly udnerwhelmed by it. Well written and all, but there was something lacking.

Got Long Cold Dark as well Staff. Holy shit is all I can say!

At 9/11/08 04:16 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote:

Anyone got a hold of Gaiman's Marvel 1602? I picked it up and I have to say whislt it was quite good I felt slightly udnerwhelmed by it. Well written and all, but there was something lacking.

The story moved kind of slowly but it was very deliborate in that.

Got Long Cold Dark as well Staff. Holy shit is all I can say!

It just got bloodier and bloodier. But like I said the strength is in the character. You honestly beleive that's what he would do in that situation. It's what a father would do.

spoilerspoilerspoilerspoiler

The hospital scene sticks out in my head. First off, he's there with nothing but forensic evidence to tell him what happened. To illicite that kind of blind rage fromsomeone that calculating is just astounding.
And the supporting characters in that scene fit perfectly. When that detective said "We're the nypd, we can handle anything" Is there anyone who's going to beleive that less than the Punisher?
And when the doctor said "The way I see it, you're a butcher, not a liar." and that he would help Frank escape because what was going to happen to Frank wasen't going to happen there. The tired, pragmatic doctor is an old character but you beleive it in this case. this is how one of them would react to the Punisher.