Madgoose is right. Except Saddam may or may not be the 3rd anti christ.(1st Napolean,2nd Hitler) Nostradamus says that "Mabus" is the 3rd anti christ. Philosiphers believe that if MABUS is an anigram it could be Yasser Arifat,Usama Bin Laden,or Papa something or other. If ne 1 knows WTF im talking a boot plz speak up

At 11/16/02 11:07 PM, Dobio wrote:

If they get Sadam, then someone else will take over. The only way Iraq will stop being a threat is if Bush nukes Iraq until it becomes a crater.

Ok, of course somebody else is going to take power. The U.S. will probably choose somebody to be in power. It will probably one of our Allie's near Iraq that is like a vice. pres or something in one of them countries. Nuking the shit out of them will help nobody! ok.
p.s.- I am typing in EarthCrisis and putting in my password and its saying earthcrisis9101 is not a user. I'm all like duh! I changed it to earthcrisis and I can no longer post with out the fucking error popping the hell up!
P.S.2.- I realize thats a long ps but screw it.

At 11/17/02 09:29 AM, Ratboy1664 wrote: Many of which are Canadians and Europeans in the first place! Like THEIR opinion matters!...)

What a twat.

I'm Canadian and its true its not our call

At 11/17/02 01:29 PM, JoeisCooler wrote: george Bush rulz cuz i am a texan.

Good job : )

At 11/17/02 11:53 AM, Superstar_69 wrote: Wade, I love you! Your intelligence turns me on ;)

Hopefully your a chick.

How about someone post a new topic on the front page, this topic just pisses me off.

At 11/17/02 11:28 AM, TheStyle wrote: Ya ok........ Im Not Goona Waste My Time Reading All Of That Shit!

Your lack of intulectual interest embarases me...why have you even been allowed to live?

Wade,

You are a fucking mongoloid...and I can prove why.

"He's most likely dead. If not, his organization has been scrambled and weakend. Bush said from day 1 that the war on terror could take many years and there may be things they can't tell us...”

You simpleton. 'Bush said.' Bush's head is even farther up his ass than yours is...that's why all his speech comes out garbled and retarded sounding. Of course it's your privilege as an American to believe the shit he spews from his lips, but it doesn't say much for your intelligence. How is it in Bush's interests, or the politically controlled news media in this country, to tell you the truth? To tell you how their objective failed? How they made a mess of things, and alienated half the world with their military blundering? Hmm? I am telling you that you're retarded. Why won't you believe me?

"Saddam signed a treaty agreeing to disarm and stay out of Kuwait. So the war was over. However he has broken the treaty...”

Holy hypocrisy. The US never breaks treaties! Especially not with Bush in charge!! Certainly not treaties like um...oh...KYOTO! What an outrage that Saddam should refuse disarmament when we the US, by contrast, have always been so very much in favor of it! Try, difficult as it is for your puny pea-sized brain, to grasp my sarcasm.

"...They decided we shouldn't have our spies associating with scum of the earth people and paying these scum bags for info, when infact that's exactly what we should have been doing and have done in the past to get good intelligence."

Actually, you poorly informed twit, what we should have done was accept the offer of a small African nation for an exchange of information about Bin Laden's terrorist activities. At the time though, we were busy being hard-asses (as usual) and flouting our bully ways over this nation--so the Al Queda captive they'd been holding for us was released by their (rightly) disgusted administration. Our superbly funded CIA chose not to take them up on this offer...one of many bloopers in their long history of (laugh) 'intelligence.'

"...the main reason for Al Quada attacking us is religious. They hate our culture. They hate the fact women can work and be sex. They hate everything we stand for and are declaring a holy war against us. It's only because of a group of extreme fanatics that have brainwashed enough of their followers to convince them to die for their religion. They believe they will have a better life with Allah if they die in a holy war. These people are nuts!"

You're nuts. No, that's way too generous. You're stupid. These people are people, and the same as people anywhere they do not appreciate economic and military oppression in their region. Their methods may be monstrous (let us say, *are* monstrous), but what are their options? We have the mightiest military force in the world, as we're always so eager to demonstrate upon them, and they have what? A few people desperate enough to strap explosives to their chest is what. Self-defense is what they're practicing...in the most pathetic way imagineable. What happened at the WTC was tragic, yes...but you know what? Third world nations deal with that kind of tragedy not once every fifty years, but once every other week. The only difference is the news here doesn't bother making mention of it.

"What we want is to liberate Iraq...He is a tyrantical dictator who makes his citizens lives miserable...Bush is working with the UN and the rest of the world to see to it Saddam changes his tune, or the world will force him to chance...It's most of the civilized world going along with us..."

Please. At this point your retardation has become almost inaddressable, but I'll try just the same: We want to liberate Iraq's oil maybe...our country's interest in the Iraqi people is about as humanitarian and honest as it was for the Vietnamese and the Nicaraguans (just to name a couple). How often have those UN inspectors dropped by Nevada, demanding access to US military facilities? Not too often I bet. What gives the US the right to police the world? As for the rest of civilization being on our side, nothing could be further from the truth. Tony Blair, our fucking cum-soaked sock puppet is on our side, along with neo fascists from Italy and Spain.

"America was a peaceful nation until Japan decided to bomb Pearl Harbor and we entered the war...

...You...amazingly ignorant fucktard. You may know your way around flash, but you seem to know fuck-all about anything else. The US a peaceful nation until WWII?! Aren't you forgetting Native Americans? They sure got shown a lot of peacefulness...mostly in the form of small-pox infected blankets you absolute twit. But as if that weren't enough...there was that whole business with Mexico (we like to call it Texas now), the French, our very own home-cooked civil war, and countless other conflicts. Go read a history book you miserable excuse for a steaming heap of shit. This nation was build on blood. Did I mention you were retarded?

"Okay, but what if you didn't push anyone around. Say someone else in your family did. Are you going to let someone come take sucker punches at your family because someone else made a mistake or pissed someone off?”

You reason like a child, because you are a child. A hopelessly retarded one.

"Bush II didn't piss off these people, previous administrations may have...The American citizens never meant to piss someone off."

Here you show some iota of sense. The American people are not entirely to blame for the despotic actions of their dictators, oh excuse me, elected officials. We can perhaps be faulted for not reacting more strongly towards having a chimpanzee in the White House (an election stealing chimpanzee no less), but I don't think we can all be collectively held to blame for decades of abusive policy-making and warmongering...A proud tradition that Shrub is only too happy to continue.

On a final note we make a very big stink about the potential threat of Saddam Hussein, about how he must be prevented from acquiring nuclear technology and other weapons of mass destruction, because he's such a fucking madman, and he'd surely let nukes rip left and right...but here's your pop quiz Wade, dull-as-a-spade, Fulp...can you name the only nation in the history of this sorry world to have employed a nuclear weapon in an act of war or aggression?

-Gollum.

At 11/15/02 07:28 AM, WadeFulp wrote:

At 11/14/02 10:38 PM, ViperMask wrote:

I'm sure Bush can understand his letter and all the big words. Bush just has trouble saying those big words. Stephen Hawking can't talk, but he's one of the smartest people on this planet. So are you against people with disibilities? The sad part is you people can only make fun of irrelevant things and not come up with any legitimate points based on facts.

You're asking for facts? I haven't heard any 'facts' from you -- unless claiming that the population of Canada are entirely comprised of 'pussies' who would take it in the ass rather than fight for their family (or whatever you were ranting). And what the fuck is a comparison of Stephen Hawking and George Bush Jr. supposed to prove? Hawking has proven his genius time and again, against a crippling disibility. Bush has proved that he can take stern pictures of his fucking profile when he's about to fuck some other country up the ass. He's cooperating with the U.N. NOW, but you can almost FEEL how desperately he wants to send in the bombs.
He's hoping to make money out of this deal while also gaining the blind Nazi patriotism of the American people. He's doing it for money, for Daddy, for the Bush family, for the Republican agenda -- in my opinion, I'll grant you that.
As a matter of fact -- I'm not saying I have the facts. My conclusions are based on what I see and read, and my gut feeling. In my life, there have been no good presidents. Not one. Not Democrat, not Republican. Bush is an ex cokehead who emptied the money surplus of Texas when he was Governer there, and now, as president, he's emptied the national surplus all in order to kiss our asses for the short term. He's doing something fucked up, which may or may not come out in the news as a major story; there may or may not be a mock televised trial with a puppet court and a lot of patriotic bullshit that doesn't mean a thing. It's always this, over and over. I'm sick of it. It's fucked.
And all we can do is sit and watch it unfold, because we've been successfully divided into two giant rant camps.
I, for one, am fucking sick of this bullshit.
I'm sorry for losing my main point -- it's simply this.
No one us know the facts. That's the problem. For whatever reasons, they don't want us to have them.
Mike Houser

In a fantasy world, taking it up the ass and not doing anything about it would make USA superior and brings all the victims of terrorism back to life.

In a fantasy world the USA government would have ESP and be able to protect us from terrorists without goign out and fighting them.

I can go on and on. But guess what dumbshits (anti-terror war self-righteous morons)? last time i checked we aren't in a perfect world. Do any of your dipshits remember the giant fucking reality check we received?

9.11.01 ring a bell?

BTW here are some more facts of life...

in a fantasy world making guns illegal would stop all gun deaths forever. in the real world, you'd have to be a moron to believe that.

in a fantasy world, stereotypes would be true. In the real world they aren't.

In a fantasy world liberals would be right and communism would work.

YO shaun penis is a homosexual

What a loser bah

WADE FULP IS THE MAN!!!

I'm noticing a disturbing trend in this little thread we've got going here.

Gollum, while your post was (in my opinion) unnecessarily degrading, it was probably the most effective way to get the point across. However, Wade has also, thus far, made the most intelligent (again, only in my opinion) debate on his side of the issue to date. And you know what?

You're both right. And wrong.

"Oh my god," everyone cries, "There has to be SOMEONE in the right! There has to be SOMEONE who is fighting with the good of everyone in mind!" Keep wishing. As I have heard it put once, everyone's "circle-jerking their nuke-nuts" and the entire world's in the middle with the wads landing squarely on our heads.

In this situation, there is absolutely NOBODY who is taking part in this without a large degree of self-interest in mind. Everyone's casting about wildly, searching for a savior to bring them out of this dilemma with their morals intact. I'd wish you all good luck, if it weren't for the fact that your effort is a doomed one.

Bin Laden's act is something that by no means can be condoned. But we're no better. As recently as Vietnam, we were razing harmless peasant villages to the ground and shooting the people who came to us for help. Those who say we're better now had best find out what our bombing targets were in the last Gulf War--according to some of my Marine buddies, an apartment complex housing industrial workers who work on war machines can be considered a "military target." Families and all.

Also, note that I used the word "we" in that last paragraph. It was not our soldiers alone who committed those acts--our army is an extension of our will, a body that carries out the tasks we choose to have them perform. They pulled the trigger because we told them to. Don't shift the blame. If you say you had nothing to do with it, all the more shame on you for not making your voice louder.

We have thousands of trained snipers in all different branches of our military. If there's any one good way to take out an organization without going through thousands of carpet-bombed buildings to do it, that's it. I myself have the qualifications to enter sniper training, and if that oppurtunity were open to me I'd be glad to take it.

So how about it, little men in D.C.? How about we put down the bombs and automatic weapons and settle it discreetly--one bullet at a time?

Gollum, by the amount of personal attacks in your post towards Wade, it sounds like he must of had something intellegent and worth debating due to the large response you gave him.

Gollum, by the amount of personal attacks in your post towards Wade, it sounds like he must of had something intellegent and worth debating due to the large response you gave him.

What exactly is it that makes Bush such a "dumbass"? You don't have a shred of evidence to support that claim, all you have is what your ass monkey friends on the news say about him.

So how about you tell me a better alternative. That's right, there is no better course of action.

Militarily, we kicked ass in Vietnam. The trouble was it was a political war where military success didn't necessarily mean overall victory. Besides, who said anything about "nuking the whole place to hell"?

"Saddam signed a treaty agreeing to disarm and stay out of Kuwait. So the war was over. However he has broken the treaty...”

Holy hypocrisy. The US never breaks treaties! Especially not with Bush in charge!! Certainly not treaties like um...oh...KYOTO!

Uh, we never actually ratified the Kyoto Treaty. You can't break a treaty you never ratified? If we had ratified it, our economy would be run even further into the ground and wouldn't be able to get back up.

At 11/18/02 01:03 PM, UND wrote: Militarily, we kicked ass in Vietnam. The trouble was it was a political war where military success didn't necessarily mean overall victory. Besides, who said anything about "nuking the whole place to hell"?

Dear Under-Nourished-Dimwit,

Has there ever been a war that was not politically motivated, you enormous boob? The problem is that there are enough emotionally and mentally crippled people living in America, people such as yourself, who have come to believe that 'kicking ass' means slaughtering helpless innocents half a globe away. Since when does carpet bombing a poor nation of rice farmers qualify as kicking ass?

To use a Wade metaphor (so that your gerbil brain can understand): "Duh...if your brother is like, 20 feet tall in your fambly, and uh, he punches some other guy in his head that is like, uh, 2 feet tall in their fambly...uh then...does that mean he got his ass kicked? Or is he Canadian? Huh huh."

-Gollum

Well, like I said somewhere back there, this is an endless debate among divided ethos about the state of the world and what should be done about it. Everything related to politics has many sides of interpretation.
How many different ways are there to look at 9-11? There's the kill the terrorists angle, there's the 'let's just nuke them all' angle, there's the 'we asked for this for treating other countries like shit' angle, there's the 'we trained Osama to do this -- we make our own enemies' angle, there's the 'our government let it happen so Bush could have a Pearl Harbor to retaliate against' angle, there's the 'someone else actually did it' angle, there's the 'we're using this as an excuse to gain control of the oil-rich middle east' angle, there's the 'we're being conned into giving up our civil liberties' angle, and on and on and on.
By the way, don't go off on me about that last statement -- it was just an example. We all have our angle. A political discussion never reaches a conclusion (just like a religious argument) where one side finally says, "hey yeah, you're right! I'll change my ways immediately!".
So -- with all of us divided into our little factions, there's only one way to see who's right.
TIME WILL TELL.
And I must say, I don't necessarily want to win this discussion, because I have a grim view of politics these days.

What I suggest is for all of us to be open to each other's opinions. The truth probably sits somewhere in the middle, don't you think?

Dear Under-Nourished-Dimwit,

Has there ever been a war that was not politically motivated, you enormous boob? The problem is that there are enough emotionally and mentally crippled people living in America, people such as yourself, who have come to believe that 'kicking ass' means slaughtering helpless innocents half a globe away. Since when does carpet bombing a poor nation of rice farmers qualify as kicking ass?

To use a Wade metaphor (so that your gerbil brain can understand): "Duh...if your brother is like, 20 feet tall in your fambly, and uh, he punches some other guy in his head that is like, uh, 2 feet tall in their fambly...uh then...does that mean he got his ass kicked? Or is he Canadian? Huh huh."

-Gollum

Thanks Gollum, your previous post to Wade which was full of faulty logic and pathetic insults may have been able to convince a few people that you actually had a point. However, I believe those few people who agreed with you at all will realize just how much of an idiot you are with this post.

No argument Wade has made yet even vaguely resembles the one you are trying to mock him with, and therefore not only is it not effective for your cause, its not even funny.

Heres an example of an argument you would make:
"You mentally retarded chimp, the US is wrong in invading Iraq becuase the US has a government which is lying. If you want proof that the US government is evil than just look at Richard Nixon, he was president and he was a known liar. If you weren't an anal mongoloid you would have known that."

The Gollum basic argument form is one in which you give a random insult to someone you disagree with. After building on that solid foundation you then get into the heart of your argument- making historical references which have no bearing on the present situation, and are usually FALSE! (your accusation of the US breaking the Kyoto treaty, which wasn't even ratified!) You'll proceed with one or two more of these "historical" references, and then follow it up with another immature insult.

So now that all you kids at home have read this, you can make your very own Gollum Argument!

And not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand, but in Vietnam, the US killed more Vietcong than the Vietcong killed of us by a large margin. Yes, that does mean militarily kicking ass as the "undernourished dimwit" you are referring to said.

not that I actually bothered reading more than 5 posts, and not that I actually understand what the topic is (why is it that whenever Americans get political Vietnam pops up?), but... just wanted to say that one of my linguistic profs wrote an introduction to Noam Chomsky's latest book, which I find pretty wicked. So... I've almost met Chomsky, haven't I? (and if I'm gonna make a point I suppose it's "don't discuss US foreign policy if you haven't read loads by that wicked bloke"). um.

Thanks Gollum, your previous post to Wade which was full of faulty logic and pathetic insults may have been able to convince a few people that you actually had a point. However, I believe those few people who agreed with you at all will realize just how much of an idiot you are with this post.

My previous post to Wade was full of scathingly insightful logic, and blistering insults. Those many people who embrace my philosophy of ridiculing idiocy rejoiced then, and will rejoice now--when I proceed to do the same with you.

No argument Wade has made yet even vaguely resembles the one you are trying to mock him with, and therefore not only is it not effective for your cause, its not even funny.

Moronic-abortion-that-somehow-lived: My example of a Wade-style argument was not only humorous and accurate, it was entirely too generous and dulcet. Unfortunately, this text-based medium does not allow me to faithfully reproduce the kind of drooling that accompanies the likes of Wade, George Bush, and yourself whenever you try to engage in any kind of debate.

Heres an example of an argument you would make:
"You mentally retarded chimp, the US is wrong in invading Iraq becuase the US has a government which is lying. If you want proof that the US government is evil than just look at Richard Nixon, he was president and he was a known liar. If you weren't an anal mongoloid you would have known that."

Here's a better example: You dubiously spawned ameoba trying to pass itself off as a human being, the US is wrong in invading Iraq because its motivations for doing so are wholly materialistic. As terrible as war is, I recognize that it's a part of human nature. What I don't recognize is the willingness of paint-chip-licking individuals (like you) to ignore the blatant hypocrisy and lies they are fed by their government in order to justify such wars.

The Gollum basic argument form is one in which you give a random insult to someone you disagree with. After building on that solid foundation you then get into the heart of your argument- making historical references which have no bearing on the present situation, and are usually FALSE! (your accusation of the US breaking the Kyoto treaty, which wasn't even ratified!) You'll proceed with one or two more of these "historical" references, and then follow it up with another immature insult.

The basic retard (or Taxman if you will) argument is to deny facts and historical references, or otherwise act oblivious to them. The US backed out of the Kyoto treaty. Why? Because we as a nation produce 1/4 of the world's fossil fuel emissions...and all those rich oil barons whose interests Dubya represents would be fucked over if we made the switch to *already existing* alternative fuel technologies that do not horribly rape the environment. You goat-bred illiterate.

So now that all you kids at home have read this, you can make your very own Gollum Argument!

This is sound advice. Be like me. Think. And insult the senselessly stupid while you're at it. They crave abuse anyway.

And not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand, but in Vietnam, the US killed more Vietcong than the Vietcong killed of us by a large margin. Yes, that does mean militarily kicking ass as the "undernourished dimwit" you are referring to said.

You should have remained a stain on your mother's panties...but as you were given life, and must burden the world with your idiocy, allow me to reply as I did to moron #1: Kicking the ass of a terribly undermatched opponent, just to flaunt one's own power...is not ass-kicking. It's called bullying. It's called cowardice. It's called reprehensible. The Vietnamese people, with all the odds against them managed to win anyway. Yes, we devastated their poor agrarian country-side with enough bombs to satisfy the kill-em-all and let God sort 'em out types...but at what price, and for fucking what? I'd call it a pyrrhic victory, only we didn't win...did we, you hapless imbecile?

-Gollum

Personally, I find it hard to make any conclusion about the Iraq conflict and in the other areas. I simply dont know enough information. Needless to say, I feel I can trust high authority to making the right decision. After all, they are high authority because the majority of us choose so. This may be ignorant of me, but at least I'm not arrogant and foolish. ;P

At 11/18/02 12:43 PM, Ninjesus wrote: I'm noticing a disturbing trend in this little thread we've got going here.

Gollum, while your post was (in my opinion) unnecessarily degrading, it was probably the most effective way to get the point across. However, Wade has also, thus far, made the most intelligent (again, only in my opinion) debate on his side of the issue to date. And you know what?

You're both right. And wrong.

"Oh my god," everyone cries, "There has to be SOMEONE in the right! There has to be SOMEONE who is fighting with the good of everyone in mind!" Keep wishing. As I have heard it put once, everyone's "circle-jerking their nuke-nuts" and the entire world's in the middle with the wads landing squarely on our heads.

In this situation, there is absolutely NOBODY who is taking part in this without a large degree of self-interest in mind. Everyone's casting about wildly, searching for a savior to bring them out of this dilemma with their morals intact. I'd wish you all good luck, if it weren't for the fact that your effort is a doomed one.

Bin Laden's act is something that by no means can be condoned. But we're no better. As recently as Vietnam, we were razing harmless peasant villages to the ground and shooting the people who came to us for help. Those who say we're better now had best find out what our bombing targets were in the last Gulf War--according to some of my Marine buddies, an apartment complex housing industrial workers who work on war machines can be considered a "military target." Families and all.

Also, note that I used the word "we" in that last paragraph. It was not our soldiers alone who committed those acts--our army is an extension of our will, a body that carries out the tasks we choose to have them perform. They pulled the trigger because we told them to. Don't shift the blame. If you say you had nothing to do with it, all the more shame on you for not making your voice louder.

We have thousands of trained snipers in all different branches of our military. If there's any one good way to take out an organization without going through thousands of carpet-bombed buildings to do it, that's it. I myself have the qualifications to enter sniper training, and if that oppurtunity were open to me I'd be glad to take it.

So how about it, little men in D.C.? How about we put down the bombs and automatic weapons and settle it discreetly--one bullet at a time?

Maybe now Wade and Gollum could forgive and forget?Or go fuck each other up the ass... its not for us Canadians to decide.

At 11/18/02 12:58 PM, UND wrote: What exactly is it that makes Bush such a "dumbass"? You don't have a shred of evidence to support that claim, all you have is what your ass monkey friends on the news say about him.

Im not saying he is a dumbass but "embetterment" isn't a word.

At 11/18/02 05:24 PM, Gollum wrote:

My previous post to Wade was full of scathingly insightful logic, and blistering insults. Those many people who embrace my philosophy of ridiculing idiocy rejoiced then, and will rejoice now--when I proceed to do the same with you.

Moronic-abortion-that-somehow-lived: My example of a Wade-style argument was not only humorous and accurate, it was entirely too generous and dulcet. Unfortunately, this text-based medium does not allow me to faithfully reproduce the kind of drooling that accompanies the likes of Wade, George Bush, and yourself whenever you try to engage in any kind of debate.

Here's a better example: You dubiously spawned ameoba trying to pass itself off as a human being, the US is wrong in invading Iraq because its motivations for doing so are wholly materialistic. As terrible as war is, I recognize that it's a part of human nature. What I don't recognize is the willingness of paint-chip-licking individuals (like you) to ignore the blatant hypocrisy and lies they are fed by their government in order to justify such wars.

The basic retard (or Taxman if you will) argument is to deny facts and historical references, or otherwise act oblivious to them. The US backed out of the Kyoto treaty. Why? Because we as a nation produce 1/4 of the world's fossil fuel emissions...and all those rich oil barons whose interests Dubya represents would be fucked over if we made the switch to *already existing* alternative fuel technologies that do not horribly rape the environment. You goat-bred illiterate.

Be like me. Think. And insult the senselessly stupid while you're at it. They crave abuse anyway.

-Gollum

Despite the fact that you were very longwinded (as you tend to be), you only produced two real points in all that drivul. Its unfortunate that they are both worthless...

1) The US did not enter the Kyoto treaty because it stood to hurt them. It was a selfish move.

First off, you said at the beginning of these posts that the United States BROKE this treaty, not that they just didn't enter it.
And yes, as you conceded, the US stood to lose quite a bit economically if they were to enter into this treaty. It is not just that entering this treaty would make the rich oil barons lose money, it would also cause many Americans to lose their jobs, and would cripple our economy.
You honestly think that the US should have entered this treaty at the cost of our economy and at the cost of our standing as the richest and most powerful country on earth? Umm... no.

Can you ever remember an empire or superpower which acted with regard to other nations in an altruistic manner? No? well why is that do you suppose? Could it be because absolute power corrupts absolutely? wow... there is a never before heard of concept.

If you look throughout history, leaders of all empires have turned out to be downright evil tyrants. This is because their unparalleled power allows them to act this way. The US, on the other hand, with its system of highly scrutinizing its leaders, has had the most altruistic government of any empire in history.
This ability to scrutinze our leaders is shown in the very subject of this thread, a letter written by a celebrity which in more eloquent terms is calling our president a jackass.
As a result of this scrutiny, the leaders of our country do a better job than any other empire of protecting the people of their nation.
Do they still make immoral choices and get away with them from time to time? Yes... This is due to the unfortunate fact that we live in the real world.

The reason worldwide leaders tend to act this way is because of another unfortunate fact- we are all human. While you enjoy sitting in your comfortable unsupervised position and criticizing our leaders for being dishonest and ego-centric, you perhaps should look at your own life. I for one, have known you for a total of 3 posts, during which you have already been caught lying once regarding this Kyoto treaty, in order that you have the upper hand in a stupid online argument!

I wonder what choice the searingly intelligent and ultra-altruistic Gollum would make if he actually stood to gain something OF VALUE from a lie!

The bottom line here is that the US, and any other country in history, would not enter into an agreement which they knew had only negative possible outcomes for their country (cases of coercion being the exception, of course). It is rediculous to criticize a leader for protecting the best interests of his country.

You have shown yourself to be a hypocritical and whiney individual, telling lies while criticizing others, and refuting others by simply calling them names.

I recommend that you try and improve your own moral judgement before criticing the judgement of others. Or for God's sake, at least be better about it... Maybe you could start by at least not lying in the very same post that you criticize the other person in, I don't know, just a thought.

No matter how "searingly brilliant" you think you are, you have no idea of the way things work. Unfortunately for you, this is the truth, and no amount of whining and name calling can change this.

(I know at the beginning of this post that I said you had made only two points in all your bullshitting, I will tear apart your other point in a later post, as for now, we have a space limit to abide by)