At 4/30/24 12:13 PM, Thetageist wrote: When you’re critiquing art or other creative work, I feel it’s important to know the person you’re giving it to. We’re on a website where everyone from paid professionals and serious hobbyists to kids who just started out drawing mingle together. With so many different approaches to art, of course you’re going to have to tailor your feedback.

So, that being said, what situations do you give the most brutal honesty, and which do you give the least?

The one person I’m the biggest hardass with (there’s the T rating lol) is @Billy-SuperSkullz and he can vouch for that. I do it because I know he can take it and because he really wants to put the effort into improving his work. I’ve talked to him so much, even chewed him out sometimes, about how he needs more variety in his character designs and artworks, because that seems to be the big thing stopping him from really being at a top skill level with art.

Conversely, I’m the least rigid with some of my younger friends who are just starting and/or have self-confidence problems that I need to be mindful of when I give them feedback. I try to compliment them specifically on the things I think I should encourage them to do, but I admit I need to be better about that, because sometimes

Also, when I’ve known someone for a while, I don’t critique every work in-depth. Art takes time to improve on, and if I be pointed out every flaw every time, I’d be repeating myself a lot, which would get tiring for both of us. Plus, not every submission needs a critique - some are shitposts that aren’t meant to be drawn particularly well. On those, I leave a jokey/memey review in reply.

So what about all of you? Do you agree with this philosophy? How do you vary your feedback?

At 4/30/24 12:13 PM, Thetageist wrote: When you’re critiquing art or other creative work, I feel it’s important to know the person you’re giving it to. We’re on a website where everyone from paid professionals and serious hobbyists to kids who just started out drawing mingle together. With so many different approaches to art, of course you’re going to have to tailor your feedback.

So, that being said, what situations do you give the most brutal honesty, and which do you give the least?

The one person I’m the biggest hardass with (there’s the T rating lol) is @Billy-SuperSkullz and he can vouch for that. I do it because I know he can take it and because he really wants to put the effort into improving his work. I’ve talked to him so much, even chewed him out sometimes, about how he needs more variety in his character designs and artworks, because that seems to be the big thing stopping him from really being at a top skill level with art.

Conversely, I’m the least rigid with some of my younger friends who are just starting and/or have self-confidence problems that I need to be mindful of when I give them feedback. I try to compliment them specifically on the things I think I should encourage them to do, but I admit I need to be better about that, because sometimes

Also, when I’ve known someone for a while, I don’t critique every work in-depth. Art takes time to improve on, and if I be pointed out every flaw every time, I’d be repeating myself a lot, which would get tiring for both of us. Plus, not every submission needs a critique - some are shitposts that aren’t meant to be drawn particularly well. On those, I leave a jokey/memey review in reply.

So what about all of you? Do you agree with this philosophy? How do you vary your feedback?

At 4/30/24 01:07 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:

At 4/30/24 12:13 PM, Thetageist wrote: When you’re critiquing art or other creative work, I feel it’s important to know the person you’re giving it to. We’re on a website where everyone from paid professionals and serious hobbyists to kids who just started out drawing mingle together. With so many different approaches to art, of course you’re going to have to tailor your feedback.

So, that being said, what situations do you give the most brutal honesty, and which do you give the least?

The one person I’m the biggest hardass with (there’s the T rating lol) is @Billy-SuperSkullz and he can vouch for that. I do it because I know he can take it and because he really wants to put the effort into improving his work. I’ve talked to him so much, even chewed him out sometimes, about how he needs more variety in his character designs and artworks, because that seems to be the big thing stopping him from really being at a top skill level with art.

Conversely, I’m the least rigid with some of my younger friends who are just starting and/or have self-confidence problems that I need to be mindful of when I give them feedback. I try to compliment them specifically on the things I think I should encourage them to do, but I admit I need to be better about that, because sometimes

Also, when I’ve known someone for a while, I don’t critique every work in-depth. Art takes time to improve on, and if I be pointed out every flaw every time, I’d be repeating myself a lot, which would get tiring for both of us. Plus, not every submission needs a critique - some are shitposts that aren’t meant to be drawn particularly well. On those, I leave a jokey/memey review in reply.

So what about all of you? Do you agree with this philosophy? How do you vary your feedback?

I am aware about being complimentary to help nurture.

At 4/30/24 12:13 PM, Thetageist wrote: When you’re critiquing art or other creative work, I feel it’s important to know the person you’re giving it to. We’re on a website where everyone from paid professionals and serious hobbyists to kids who just started out drawing mingle together. With so many different approaches to art, of course you’re going to have to tailor your feedback.

So, that being said, what situations do you give the most brutal honesty, and which do you give the least?

The one person I’m the biggest hardass with (there’s the T rating lol) is @Billy-SuperSkullz and he can vouch for that. I do it because I know he can take it and because he really wants to put the effort into improving his work. I’ve talked to him so much, even chewed him out sometimes, about how he needs more variety in his character designs and artworks, because that seems to be the big thing stopping him from really being at a top skill level with art.

Conversely, I’m the least rigid with some of my younger friends who are just starting and/or have self-confidence problems that I need to be mindful of when I give them feedback. I try to compliment them specifically on the things I think I should encourage them to do, but I admit I need to be better about that, because sometimes

Also, when I’ve known someone for a while, I don’t critique every work in-depth. Art takes time to improve on, and if I be pointed out every flaw every time, I’d be repeating myself a lot, which would get tiring for both of us. Plus, not every submission needs a critique - some are shitposts that aren’t meant to be drawn particularly well. On those, I leave a jokey/memey review in reply.

So what about all of you? Do you agree with this philosophy? How do you vary your feedback?

At 4/30/24 01:37 PM, Gimmick wrote: It's difficult to be brutally honest without coming off as an asshole, and there's a skill to it but I'm not good at it yet. Every other time, I try to phrase things one way or another without being brutal about it.

So the only people I am brutally honest with are a) those who I almost hate because fuck them anyways, b) those who make it clear they're just looking for free labour rather than actually learning anything, c) those who try to squeeze free labour out of others while pretending they're doing a favour to them, and sometimes, not always but just sometimes d) myself.

At 4/30/24 01:39 PM, Thetageist wrote:

At 4/30/24 01:37 PM, Gimmick wrote: It's difficult to be brutally honest without coming off as an asshole, and there's a skill to it but I'm not good at it yet. Every other time, I try to phrase things one way or another without being brutal about it.

So the only people I am brutally honest with are a) those who I almost hate because fuck them anyways, b) those who make it clear they're just looking for free labour rather than actually learning anything, c) those who try to squeeze free labour out of others while pretending they're doing a favour to them, and sometimes, not always but just sometimes d) myself.

All good ideas. Can you explain the free labor situation a bit more? I think I know what you’re talking about, considering the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Collab fiasco that led to GoAnimate being banned, but I want to hear it from you.

At 4/30/24 01:52 PM, Gimmick wrote:

At 4/30/24 01:39 PM, Thetageist wrote:

At 4/30/24 01:37 PM, Gimmick wrote: It's difficult to be brutally honest without coming off as an asshole, and there's a skill to it but I'm not good at it yet. Every other time, I try to phrase things one way or another without being brutal about it.

So the only people I am brutally honest with are a) those who I almost hate because fuck them anyways, b) those who make it clear they're just looking for free labour rather than actually learning anything, c) those who try to squeeze free labour out of others while pretending they're doing a favour to them, and sometimes, not always but just sometimes d) myself.

All good ideas. Can you explain the free labor situation a bit more? I think I know what you’re talking about, considering the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Collab fiasco that led to GoAnimate being banned, but I want to hear it from you.

My example wasn't about art so it doesn't apply to such an extent here, but free labour under the guise of learning is very common in programming. For example, someone describing a problem they have, and more often than not the solution is very particular to their situation -- because I could either give generic advice that they likely won't understand, or I could answer their specific question -- but they copy & paste the answers provided without actually bothering to learn why, so that the next time they ask another question I know that they're tried nothing and are all out of ideas.

Protip: if you put even the slightest amount of effort in your questions, especially including things you've tried that don't work, then it's all fine and good. Hell even replying with a simple followup question is enough. But some random users here and there (never the regs for obvious reasons) just ask a one line question, with an easily googleable answer, and expect others to solve it. That's when the RTFM side of me comes out -- and even then, I try and tone it down, because there's always the possibility that I may be misjudging the situation. Depending on my mood that day at least, lol.

The other example of free labour, well this is probably a very specific situation so I don't know how often it actually happens, but it's living rent free in my mind because that was the first time in a long time I wanted to rip the asshole to shreds, but even then I ended up toning it down tons by essentially asking them to reconsider. Then the asshole just replied with the equivalent of a "k", which honestly I guess I should've expected. In any case, they wanted a developer on their vanity project and they kept saying how it'll have such a great reception because of their existing dem0 and that they couldn't offer to pay anything, but if you pretty please worked for free with them then they may be able to get you an internship with some other person, literally doing work to be able to do more work, as if that was some sort of a godsend.

And then it ended up that they were sexting teens and left the site after having the gall to act like they were the victim (iykyk), so I guess I just regret not tearing the asshole a new one at the time. It's not often I get to go on a powertrip and be completely in the right to do so, after all...

I kid, I kid. It feels nice at the time but it won't change anyone's mind.

At 4/30/24 01:29 PM, Thetageist wrote:

However, I find you do take it to the other extreme where it is feeding an individual’s ego when they should be brought back down to Earth. Being nice to someone should never be confused with telling someone something they want to hear.

Why is it so important to bring someone back down to earth, especially if you don’t know how deeply tunneled into it they may already be? The stigma against depression is still very strong, so of course the people affected are going to want to hide it from everyone except those they trust. Art may be the only thing someone thinks they aren’t completely worthless at. You don’t know how much ego there is to feed - in fact, you’re probably overestimating it, considering we’re in the middle of a global mental health crisis.

Yesterday I found you recommending others to block people who was giving brutally honest feedback absolutely unhelpful, given that the person resorted to what I would consider unacceptable methods to farm views.

I will always be for blocking whoever you want to. Harassment can come in disguise as constructive criticism, and I say this as someone who used to do exactly that and lost multiple friendships to it. Most people are here to do something that makes them happy, and while some find the feedback to be a boost in motivation, others will dwell on one negative critique for days. It does not help that some people take coming across as aggressive to be a point of pride. Mental health is a journey just as much as art is a journey, and it is well within anyone’s right to separate themselves from things that are making their emotional state even more unstable until they feel strong enough to take them on.

If you find the methods used to gather views to be unacceptable, why not use your moderator power to lock those threads before they get traction? Unofficial rules exist in other forums. Since I come to the forum a lot, I can likewise help discourage people from fishing for compliments and asking how to get more views, as I agree that the threads about general art quality or attention don’t really help anyone.

At 4/30/24 02:51 PM, beanvamp wrote:

At 4/30/24 01:30 PM, Thetageist wrote: Can be a good or bad thing, depending on how you treat yourself. Can you elaborate on how you talk to yourself about your art?

i start out by telling myself that i’m incredibly talented and that everybody is going to love my drawings and that i’m gonna make it big as an artist, this lasts for about 5 minutes before i then switch to self-doubt and loathing

At 4/30/24 02:00 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:

At 4/30/24 01:29 PM, Thetageist wrote:

However, I find you do take it to the other extreme where it is feeding an individual’s ego when they should be brought back down to Earth. Being nice to someone should never be confused with telling someone something they want to hear.

Why is it so important to bring someone back down to earth, especially if you don’t know how deeply tunneled into it they may already be? The stigma against depression is still very strong, so of course the people affected are going to want to hide it from everyone except those they trust. Art may be the only thing someone thinks they aren’t completely worthless at. You don’t know how much ego there is to feed - in fact, you’re probably overestimating it, considering we’re in the middle of a global mental health crisis.

I’m not going to handle every single person like they’re in the midst of depression, have a social disorder or some other psychological issue.

An individual should not assume someone else has a condition unless they directly say so.

Yesterday I found you recommending others to block people who was giving brutally honest feedback absolutely unhelpful, given that the person resorted to what I would consider unacceptable methods to farm views.

I will always be for blocking whoever you want to. Harassment can come in disguise as constructive criticism, and I say this as someone who used to do exactly that and lost multiple friendships to it. Most people are here to do something that makes them happy, and while some find the feedback to be a boost in motivation, others will dwell on one negative critique for days. It does not help that some people take coming across as aggressive to be a point of pride. Mental health is a journey just as much as art is a journey, and it is well within anyone’s right to separate themselves from things that are making their emotional state even more unstable until they feel strong enough to take them on.

1) I don’t agree with you assuming that person in the thread has a mental health issue.

2) They were very sensitive - I think any point of negative feedback would dampen their pride. Being tactful, I would rather soften the blow by being complimentary, however I think open opinion and clear statements are important.

Personally, I prefer to give criticism to people I know and only when requested as
a) I’m aware of their skill level and how susceptible they are to feedback.
b) They should be aware about where my feedback stems from, and decide for themselves whether I’m talking out of my arse or not.

If you find the methods used to gather views to be unacceptable, why not use your moderator power to lock those threads before they get traction? Unofficial rules exist in other forums. Since I come to the forum a lot, I can likewise help discourage people from fishing for compliments and asking how to get more views, as I agree that the threads about general art quality or attention don’t really help anyone.

I do. I did that yesterday.

I’m pretty sure I know what’s going to happen next. Please consider everything first.

… Don’t play this game.
I’ve banned you twice: once because you called Jack because you didn’t agree with my response, and twice because you continued a stupid disagreement with Template. I’ve zero tolerance to dumb forum antics.

At 4/30/24 12:13 PM, Thetageist wrote: When you’re critiquing art or other creative work, I feel it’s important to know the person you’re giving it to. We’re on a website where everyone from paid professionals and serious hobbyists to kids who just started out drawing mingle together. With so many different approaches to art, of course you’re going to have to tailor your feedback.

So, that being said, what situations do you give the most brutal honesty, and which do you give the least?

The one person I’m the biggest hardass with (there’s the T rating lol) is @Billy-SuperSkullz and he can vouch for that. I do it because I know he can take it and because he really wants to put the effort into improving his work. I’ve talked to him so much, even chewed him out sometimes, about how he needs more variety in his character designs and artworks, because that seems to be the big thing stopping him from really being at a top skill level with art.

Conversely, I’m the least rigid with some of my younger friends who are just starting and/or have self-confidence problems that I need to be mindful of when I give them feedback. I try to compliment them specifically on the things I think I should encourage them to do, but I admit I need to be better about that, because sometimes

Also, when I’ve known someone for a while, I don’t critique every work in-depth. Art takes time to improve on, and if I be pointed out every flaw every time, I’d be repeating myself a lot, which would get tiring for both of us. Plus, not every submission needs a critique - some are shitposts that aren’t meant to be drawn particularly well. On those, I leave a jokey/memey review in reply.

So what about all of you? Do you agree with this philosophy? How do you vary your feedback?

At 4/30/24 03:18 PM, Thetageist wrote:

At 4/30/24 02:00 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: I’m not going to handle every single person like they’re in the midst of depression, have a social disorder or some other psychological issue.

An individual should not assume someone else has a condition unless they directly say so.

Slight difference: I’m not necessarily going to assume that everyone for sure has a problem, but I’m going to remember that I don’t know for sure, and not assume that they can tank the damage from whatever words I choose to throw at them. I also don’t trade insults with them if they take issue with me (as the self-appointed art critics here do).
If I were to do that and they did happen to overreact, it wouldn’t be clear who was in the wrong. However, if I do the best I can to be nice and tactful and they overreact, it becomes clear that this is someone I shouldn’t bother with and I was being reasonable.

At 4/30/24 11:47 PM, Template88 wrote: Everyone is a hero on their own journey. Journeys can have lots of goals and endpoints for people. Heroes will meet many challenges on their journey, theyll face difficulties, monsters, and meet a lot of other adventurers. How a hero faces these challenges and monsters or even how they behave around other adventurers will be very different. What works for one hero may not work for another. There are lots of nice adventurers that dont want to get in the way of others, they're content to watch other people go about things their own way or cheer along others regardless of what they're doing. Theres also other adventurers that will force another to stop and answer a question. Sometimes these questions are hard to answer and some, maybe even most of the adventurers asked these questions run away, attack or go crazy, but some of them will stand their ground and get stronger.
Heroes on their journey do not get to decide who they encounter when they go outside on their quest, even if they stick to the shadows or use a shield, they always make too much noise and lose initiative to other adventurers.