At 7/27/17 11:24 AM, GreenSoap wrote: Maybe you're not able to answer this, but do you strive to keep the audio player's aesthetic with the transition? I really like the design of the current Flash audio player.

I'm asking because the NG Radio has an HTML5 Canvas player, but it looks very plain, flat and simplistic as opposed to the flashy Flash player in the Audio Portal. It also lacks the visualizations of the Flash player.

The HTML5 audio player won't be as fun and fancy as the SWF audio player, although there are plenty of people who would prefer it that way, since the SWF player can be CPU intensive. I would love to give users the option to run an HTML5 audio player that uses WinAmp visualizations (like our SWF player does) but that might have to be done by someone in the community if it's going to happen.

At 7/27/17 11:06 AM, wwwyzzerdd wrote:

At 7/26/17 01:19 PM, TomFulp wrote: 3. It really bothers me when people cheer the death of Flash. I totally get why it's time to move on but you shouldn't cheer the death of something that empowered so many people and brought so much joy to the web for 20+ years.

To be bluntly honest, Flash outlasted Steve Jobs by 9 years.

That is one of my favorite Flash factoids.

At 7/26/17 02:15 PM, MSGhero wrote: I'm glad Adobe finally made a decision, and I'm glad they acknowledged AIR. Open source would be fantastic, especially for OpenFL development.

AIR? Where did they mention AIR?

At 7/27/17 11:00 AM, FrozenFire wrote:

At 7/26/17 01:19 PM, TomFulp wrote: I am ripe with fertile juices

Tom, if we pay more than $3/mo is there a way to gift our excess support to other users? For example, if I paid $9/mo could two additional users be under my wing?

Oh man, that would be cool to be able to keep it under a single payment umbrella. I'll look into that!

At 7/26/17 03:10 PM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/26/17 03:00 PM, BoMToons wrote: Release a Steam game/app called "Newgrounds" that houses all the NG .swf files served through Adobe AIR.

...

profit?

I'm curious if people would pay for a supporter subscription to cover bandwidth but might not be able to sell that via Steam if it uses an outside payment system.

Always happy to put my money towards this site. It's the one of the few left that still communicates with its users.

At 7/27/17 12:10 PM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/27/17 11:00 AM, FrozenFire wrote:

At 7/26/17 01:19 PM, TomFulp wrote: I am ripe with fertile juices

Tom, if we pay more than $3/mo is there a way to gift our excess support to other users? For example, if I paid $9/mo could two additional users be under my wing?

Oh man, that would be cool to be able to keep it under a single payment umbrella. I'll look into that!

Slap a big supporter sticker on their profile that says they belong to me now :P

Sad to finally hear Adobe's final separation from Flash. Even more ugh, is that all Flash (8 to cs6) games are shockwave (.swf) dependant (I'm planning on releasing more as2/as3 games on NG soon or later).

Long live Flash (open source or otherwise, I sincerely hope it never ever fades)!

If you want, vote for this to be news in Wikipedia's frontpage! Here. Sign your vote at the end with "~~~~" and do it right as they are picky. If people don't vote in favor, it won't be in the news... If that's good or not it's hard to say, though.

I wish .swf was just like .jpg, .png, .mp3... Then it could be all over the web just fine. I don't understand it, this whole plug-ins deal... You don't need a plug-in to play an MP3 on any modern browser.

Many downloaded SWFs only work with an internet connection or don't work at all. Due to being site locked or something. I don't understand it much, but it's their demise. For example, the game DJManiax, after downloaded, only works if there's an internet connection, even though it's a local file. Why? With Flash unsupported, websites will most likely delete their Flash content. So will the downloaded SWFs stop working as they won't have the server to connect to? This is a big issue. Nonoba went offline some time ago and all Nonoba Flash games stopped being accessible, even the authors said they couldn't get to them. It's not about having a Flash player, that's the easiest part. It's about websites still having their servers and content up and how authors stopped SWFs from working off specific connections and domains. Newgrounds also doesn't help by not providing a Download button for Flash content (unlike in the Audio Portal).

---

Now just recalling stuff not really from Newgrounds if you excuse me and the long post...

There are many websites that will shut down because people just doomed this rich content. There's a lot of content and Flash games not on Newgrounds that won't be saved the way they could be on Newgrounds. (By the way, do you know any of these next ones?)

For example, there won't be official online Tetris anymore at tetrisfriends.com (has multiplayer arena) -- it doesn't receive updates. As someone mentioned very well, Platform Racing 2's popularity is overwhelming. It's not just a game, because of its level editor, it's a world of games and a community inside (they invented over 100 different types of levels for what was just a racing levels game...). The many games that were never uploaded here... Like Bible Fight by AdultSwim (the bastards put it on Kongregate, though). Robin Allen's popular Hapland point and click game series too...

Then there are those somewhat fancy games that companies randomly made... Like M&M's classic game 50 Dark Movies Hidden in Painting. Or Coconut Run, Open House and even the Disney Flash games too... Another classic, the Java (not JavaScript) Hell of Sand Falling Game wasn't even fully converted to Flash and is already lost again.

It's a world of content that is doomed and irreplaceable.

At 7/27/17 12:10 PM, Gimmick wrote: AIR? Where did they mention AIR?

Well, I guess Adobe proper didn't mention AIR as usual. Chris Campbell posted in several places giving a new roadmap for AIR, with a lot of features people have been asking for.

My question is, what will happen with all old animations and games in the archive that use flash?
Will they just die?

At 7/27/17 10:12 AM, AcidX wrote:

At 7/27/17 06:00 AM, LiquidFire wrote: It's a shame it's going to die out. A lot of great things have been made with flash.

Some really great things. But these days you can do it a lot better with a variety of different languages and tools.
Personally, I think it's partly Adobe's fault. They secretly wanted flash player to die out as it was so incompatible with their other shit.

At 7/27/17 08:53 AM, Soupcat wrote: Traitor

Yes. Proudly! Bitmap and vector drawing combined with filters as well ... is just way more tempting.
Nodes looks easier than AS too. It'll do.

I'll still keep Flash though. It's like a pet or a plant or something.

You mentioned you are going to convert from Flash to Toonboom Essentials? Rethink that.

ToonBoom Essentials doesn't include nodes or bitmap drawing tools: only vector. Filters and compositing is very minimal in Essentials (only 7 effects versus 45 in Premium), and the cut-out character tools basic. And it even misses the basic variable thickness tools (which are only part of Advanced and Premium).

Nodes are not even available in the Advanced edition, and again the number of filters are much reduced compared to the Premium edition. But at least it offers bitmap painting tools.

Only the Premium edition does nodes and nodal compositing, and you really need nodes to get the most out of the cut-out character animation in Toonboom. Particle systems are also only available in Premium.

So, if you want nodes, it is going to cost you: either over $1100 a year (subscription) or $2600 for a perpetual license.

If you are looking for an alternative to Flash for animation, and you need a nodal compositor that is on par with Toonboom Premium, you are better off working in OpenToonz (which includes particles too!). And Moho is also a great choice for cutout animation - better than Toonboom Premium.

You could also combine Moho and OpenToonz together which would beat Premium's behind.

Or stick with Flash and After Effects (After Effects has that awesome DUIK cutout animation plugin which is free). Still much less expensive than even Toonboom Advanced per year.

Anyway, if you do decide to go with Toonboom: avoid Essentials. It's not worth it: too expensive for what you get, and too limited compared to other animation tools. At the very least get Advanced.

At 7/27/17 02:14 PM, hvanderwegen wrote: Anyway, if you do decide to go with Toonboom: avoid Essentials. It's not worth it: too expensive for what you get, and too limited compared to other animation tools. At the very least get Advanced.

Cool. Cheers. I'll go with Advanced then.
I would love premium but my situation is poor right now. Quite literally. Adam Philips recommends premium for the nice stuff but to be honest I'm not going to be grappling with anything like that for a while anyway.

Will admit, last time I looked properly, it was the old naming hierarchy - where harmony meant premium.

I have been very interested in OpenToonz since it's launch and amazed by how quickly it took off. I've seen all kinds of things built for it... the interface isn't even that far off toonboom really... if I gave it some time I could probably get it working how I wanted...

I have a copy of OpenToonz actually but it wasn't very documented when I got that, so I never did much in it. Couldn't get certain things working at the time. It's definitely come a long way since then. That was like a year ago already?

I'll see how I get on with the toonboom trial first anyways. Cheers.
Back on topic :p

Just when I thought about trying to get into animation making. Guess I will try and get an older copy of Flash off Ebay or Amazon and have a little fun with it before the end. Adobe can shove their new version up their ass since it's a subscription program like Photoshop.

As for viewing SWF files: I'm still running an XP computer with Firefox 43 so I can still view them, though FF keeps telling me Flash is outdated and I have to give it the OK to run it (I can't upgrade Flash because the browser's too old, and if I do upgrade Firefox, the newer version will disable it with no way to circumvent it).

A shame that I actually started with HTML5 games (just because the engines I was using exported on that) and the last few months I actually was doing some work in flash, learning how to use it to make content. welp, time to move on, and forget what I learned.

It's a sad support for flash is ending I found NG back in 2000 all good things must come to an end

Will Nightmare Cops be coming to PS4

Here to pay my respects.

I wonder if I should finish making the two Flash games I've been tormenting in Development Hell for the past 6 years...

Last time I gave HTML5 a try in meaning of gaming I had an unavoidable 10 seconds lag in Firefox (but not in Chrome) during loading which was caused simply by audio files decoding. Browsers still have this different behavior especially in terms of performance which Flash didn't had (unless it's related to input delays and event stacking).

Also, is there any good and big HTML5-based game projects? I honestly never was able to find any.

At 7/27/17 07:52 PM, TmsT wrote: Here to pay my respects.

I wonder if I should finish making the two Flash games I've been tormenting in Development Hell for the past 6 years...

I can feel you there. Been working on mine project for last few years as well. More sad is that it uses Molehill which Shumway or similar projects would not cover probably.

im curious how to salvage the games more than anything, really epic games like newgrounds rumble, or ones where the source files or what have you dont exist anymore. i suppose one could download them but i feel like itd suck to not experience them on the web as was always the case in its lifetime

On the plus side, the Flash is dead meme can finally be put to bed after a decade.

The movies are mostly going to be okay, even the swf exclusive stuff like the menus can be archived in video form for those who really want to see them. The games on the other hand are kinda screwed. I personally plan to start all future game projects using the Adobe Creative Cloud kit, so I can use AIR to make them into mobile apps and whatnot. But all my old Flash 8 AS2 stuff is stuck in limbo. Hell, I still have some AS2 stuff I need to finish, and I'd like for people to be able to play it.

So much of Newgrounds is those old swf games. It won't be the same without them. It hasn't really been newgrounds classic since the portal dropped it standards. So whatever, things change.

The people who cry for the death of Flash are the people who probably never had it be such a huge part of their lives.

I don't have a bad word to say about it, however to me it will always be Macromedia Flash 8 forever!!!!

I don't think I will ever stop making little flash experiments. I just hope there will always be a downloadable flash player for future OSs.

At 7/26/17 01:19 PM, TomFulp wrote: 1. Adobe will still support Adobe Animate, their re-branded version of Flash

By that do you mean flash with a different wrapper and cryptic scripting?

2. No, people don’t need animation software that exports animation in HTML5 format. We just need animation to be in video format. We created Swivel for this many years ago and it’s super popular.

Insert heart here.

4. The Audio Portal will be fine, with an HTML5 audio player.

Sweet. Been having some issues with the AP on mobile. This will give flashless phones a snazzy player, yes?

A lot of people still don’t realize that NG has been transitioning away from Flash for many years now and 2020 won’t be as bumpy as some may think. The end of Flash won’t be the end of NG.

Thank you. The alarmist threads have been annoying.

On the plus side, I got mentioned in NY Mag and was part of a Twitter Moment.

Sweet. Gotta check this out.

1. Flash was never the reason for bad advertising on the web, bad ad companies were. Most ads are now using HTML5 and the irony is they are larger files and often consume more resources than Flash did. We also have new problems, for example Flash-based ads were never able to steal focus from your browser and force the page to scroll back to the ad. HTML5 ads that do that have been cropping up on NG this past year and we have to chase them down. We’re also seeing more ads that do forced page redirects. This is why it’s a great idea to become a supporter, so you can browse NG ad-free and ultimately help us run less ads for everyone else.

QFT. The ads have been getting increasingly intrusive and annoying over the years. Some will hijack my browser and force a redirect while I'm writing PMs. Good thing NG saves the text for me.

3. It really bothers me when people cheer the death of Flash. I totally get why it's time to move on but you shouldn't cheer the death of something that empowered so many people and brought so much joy to the web for 20+ years. I think it's a bandwagon that a lot of joyless people have jumped on, sorry if you're one of them.

QFT times two. Flash's death throes aren't a nice thing for me. It's like watching grey hairs pop up in the mirror. I used to enjoy playing around in Flash 8 once upon a time. Never was any good with it, but it was something I liked.

Best of luck in all your endeavors, Tom! Keep being a superhero. :)

At 7/27/17 08:32 PM, Chaz wrote: The people who cry for the death of Flash are the people who probably never had it be such a huge part of their lives.

I don't have a bad word to say about it, however to me it will always be Macromedia Flash 8 forever!!!!

Well said, Macromedia Flash 8 forever, I still use it :)! This news is so disheartening, and I was just waiting for Tom to give his input after reading it on another website. It's also really sad to see people hate on Flash so much. It's been a huge part of my childhood and how I got into programming, and the seamlessness of making games in Flash will be hugely missed since I still I haven't found a way as excellent as in Flash that'll allow me to develop games for the web. Also, I'm really glad to see people showing care. This most definitely means that someone will definitely come up with a solution before 2020 :)

Any chance Construct could make a converter for flash games?
.swf to .c3p/.capx
Sounds like a dumb
maybe cause I'm a gay giraffe monkey penguin

somewhere in the alt universe beyond 2020, tom fulp is fapping out flash games from his pee hole and the president is a hyper intelligent fish monster

This is the biggest reason I'm sad to see Flash go. All those clickable easter eggs, menus and extra content other than the main movie? We don't get those anymore. To me that was one of the biggest things separating NG from Youtube.

I agree, but we might be in the minority on that. I've noticed that hardly anyone uploads .SWFs anymore. I was about the only one. (I won't do it anymore now since nobody will be able to see it in a few years anyway. I guess animators just moved on. Plus a lot of them also started using other programs too outside of Flash like After Effects. But still, I wish Adobe would've given Flash a better death. Removing the player from the web and their website is such a slap in the face to everyone who spent time (and money) on the format.

This sucks, I had plans that involved using Flash. I guess it's a good thing I never finished learning to code for it. One of the things I had in mind was creating my own player design.

Hey @TomFulp, say I don't want to use the in-house video player and want to make my own in HTML5 & use it through Newgrounds, could that be a possibility?

At 7/27/17 02:14 PM, hvanderwegen wrote: Moho

That software is still alive? I remember it dying ages ago. Could be wrong.

At 7/27/17 07:52 PM, TmsT wrote: Here to pay my respects.

I wonder if I should finish making the two Flash games I've been tormenting in Development Hell for the past 6 years...

Wow, I thought I was the only one with a Flash game in development hell (though mine's been that way for much longer). Guess I'm in really good company, huh?

FWIW I'm planning to go ahead and finish mine, because it's a simple game and nothing terribly groundbreaking or ambitious and I'm really only doing it for the learning experience. I'm happy if my game gets even a year of shelf life, let alone 2 or 3.

At 7/27/17 08:04 PM, Luis wrote: im curious how to salvage the games more than anything, really epic games like newgrounds rumble, or ones where the source files or what have you dont exist anymore. i suppose one could download them but i feel like itd suck to not experience them on the web as was always the case in its lifetime

Our only claim to fame will be gone, forever