NG portal voting system is broken

[Asandir]

The topic has been ongoing for months and is at this point probably beaten to death. Anyhow, as of today, P-Bot couldn't even posts his usal 10 daily best flashes, because only 7 flashes in total passed. That is horrible, plain and simple.

I would like that everyone posts their thoughts and possible solutions for this problem or comments on the suggestions that have been posted in the thread by others. Feel free to state your reasons when you think that the system is working fine, too.

My thoughts on it:

Sources of the problem:

1. Under judgment flashes are too hidden

We have a portal for games, one for movies and then the classic one that holds all the UJ sumbissions. The classic portal can't even showcase all UJ flashes most times. The two others are the 4th option of a drop down menu. When you click the Games or the Movies Button (Games and Movie Portal) , then the page it leads to doesn't even show under judgment flashes.
The design looks like it even wants to hide the UJ submissions.

Possible solutions:
- Showcase the under judgement flashes also on the Game Portal and Movie Portal, preferably on top of the page
- A reminder to vote on under judgment flashes when you log in for the first time every day ( and an option to turn it off)

2. No incentive to vote

It doesn't really matter what you vote, even the most horrid stuff will pass. It even matters less nowadays because even when you vote, stuff still doesn't pass within 3 days. I and others even started to recast their votes every day on all under judgment flashes that they watch, it doesn't help much.

Possible solutions:
- decrease the amount of needed votes from 200 to 100
- everyone starts recasting their votes on flashes that have been under judgment for a week
- increase the needed score a flashs needs to pass to 2.00 so that crap finally gets blammed, since a vote of 2 is where saving starts, a vote of 1.6 doesn't make sense. the system is already heavily tailored towards protection points as it is, though I can somehow understand the argument that new artists could get scared away by a higher score requirement

3. Under judgment flashes are not atractive anymore

Something that I noticed recently is that new fantastic flashes get frontpaged very quickly, sometimes within 10 minutes after being submitted. It is good that new nice stuff gets frontpaged but on the other hand I saw many people stating that they don't bother to look through the rest of the UJ submissions as a result, thus leaving them without votes.

Possible solutions:

- let users take part in the decision what gets frontpaged, add a "Recommend for frontpage button" - then the staff gets the final say if it gets frontpaged or not. Result : users look for hidden games again, more votes arise

4. People who like to increase their stats don't care about B/P points anymore, or less than in the past

We have two extremes: regulars that have already the highest rank and a high level and think that their votes don't help and stop voting and then we have the new users : they see that 50 flashes get submitted daily and wonder how they are supposed to get into the quadruple digits and after 2 years they will get bored of waiting 3 months for a new Level icon, which plays second fiddle to the user icons anyways.

Possible Solutions:

- Introduce more higher ranks to give regulars an incentive to vote again
- add more ranks inbetween the existing ones that can be reached faster
- get rid of the user icons on the forums, so that the level icon is the centerpiece again (debatable)

Those are my thoughts, I am looking forward to yours!

[TeslaShockwave]

Newgrounds as a whole is a clusterfuck lately.

[TurkeyOnAStick]

At 8/21/13 03:32 AM, DecimatorOmega wrote: and honestly, so does M bot.

What's wrong with M-Bot?

[GenresandSeries]

It's been this way for a long, long time.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

yeah the system is broken.

[ForNoReason]

I posted this recently about my thoughts on what could help

And it all comes down to voting. If people vote then stuff will get out of judgment faster. Also, I recommended in the past that the "Under Judgment" pages have the feed flipped. Right now the newest stuff is always on top and that pushes the older stuff down further into ignored space. Just simply keeping the old on top until it is gone would help in some aspects I think.

[Sentio]

How about having a 'new submissions' bar on every page, running down the side. Or even just on the front page/forums. That way wherever you go on the site you are aware of the newest submissions that have entered the portal, and that would by definition increase the liklihood of people voting.

Add to that proper rewards for voters that actually make the process worthwhile, as the majority that are committed are now well above the badge levels. Voting power is frankly meaningless, so how about certain NG advantages. Lets say the top 100 voters in a month get NG supporter status for free for example- after all they are supporting the site even if they aren't contributing financially.

People have suggested adjusting the pass mark and number of voters needed before, but I don't see the fault being in the way the portal runs, but rather in the voters on those counts. Target the voters and the rest will come.

[Daker777NG]

I totally approove this message, we should recollect signatures or something so the staff makes these changes, there was a web page for recollecting signatures...

[Spretznaz]

2. No incentive to vote

This, this and this. I've basically given up voting nowadays because the portal's so goddamn slow, as well as the ongoing entries submitted/blammed thing. Seriously, voting zero doesn't do shit anymore.

You know, I actually noticed that the "under judgment" window was increased from the newest 50 flashes to 65. To me, that's just blatant admission of the problem without actually saying it.

[Viper]

At 8/21/13 03:30 AM, Asandir wrote: - Showcase the under judgement flashes also on the Game Portal and Movie Portal, preferably on top of the page

You mean up at the top under the Games and Movies buttons? There are links to the classic portal under both of those.... Though I think they should just combine the two and make a button thats just for the Portal but lets you go to the Games and Movies pages too.

- decrease the amount of needed votes from 200 to 100
- increase the needed score a flashes needs to pass to 2.00 so that crap finally gets blammed, since a vote of 2 is where saving starts, a vote of 1.6 doesn't make sense. the system is already heavily tailored towards protection points as it is, though I can somehow understand the argument that new artists could get scared away by a higher score requirement

I honestly don't see why they haven't done either of those yet. I'd help take out more of the shitty flashes and let submissions get through the portal faster than they have been lately.

Possible Solutions:

- Introduce more higher ranks to give regulars an incentive to vote again
- add more ranks inbetween the existing ones that can be reached faster

That'd just give people more of an incentive to stat whore instead of voting fairly.

- get rid of the user icons on the forums, so that the level icon is the centerpiece again (debatable)

I like having user icons on the forums. Though if they do anything with them I suggest at least making the level icons bigger. Obviously not as big as they were before because then there'd be a REALLY big difference in size when it comes to the user icons and level icons and it'd just look fucking weird having it like that.

[TheMajormel]

Yeah, the number of votes need to be buffed up a bit. I thought it was the worst idea ever, since i make games, but it seemms like most of my stuff get the usual 3 out of 5 stars. Also bring back flagging submissions and up the level cap to 70

[RedN]

At 8/21/13 03:30 AM, Asandir wrote: The topic has been ongoing for months and is at this point probably beaten to death. Anyhow, as of today, P-Bot couldn't even posts his usal 10 daily best flashes, because only 7 flashes in total passed. That is horrible, plain and simple.

I would like that everyone posts their thoughts and possible solutions for this problem or comments on the suggestions that have been posted in the thread by others. Feel free to state your reasons when you think that the system is working fine, too.

My thoughts on it:

Sources of the problem:

1. Under judgment flashes are too hidden

We have a portal for games, one for movies and then the classic one that holds all the UJ sumbissions. The classic portal can't even showcase all UJ flashes most times. The two others are the 4th option of a drop down menu. When you click the Games or the Movies Button (Games and Movie Portal) , then the page it leads to doesn't even show under judgment flashes.
The design looks like it even wants to hide the UJ submissions.

Possible solutions:
- Showcase the under judgement flashes also on the Game Portal and Movie Portal, preferably on top of the page

I don't think that showing all the UJ stuff on that page is a good solution,the pad should display only the latest 6 (or oldest) and link to the UJ page.

- A reminder to vote on under judgment flashes when you log in for the first time every day ( and an option to turn it off)

This isn't a good idea too,because I think that even those who aren't members could watch,play and vote,plus,the people who browse the game and movie portal are far more numerous than those who just have accounts,that's my point.

2. No incentive to vote

It doesn't really matter what you vote, even the most horrid stuff will pass. It even matters less nowadays because even when you vote, stuff still doesn't pass within 3 days. I and others even started to recast their votes every day on all under judgment flashes that they watch, it doesn't help much.

I totally agree here,NG needs to blam more often,I'm getting bored of seeing HardHart's spam (and others) getting saved,another suggestion here is to make the blam thresold correspend with the file size I mean that for a heavy movie (300 Mb) the blam thresold would be about 2.6/5 while a game that has a file size of 300 kb would just have to pass 2.00 to get saved,this way,flash files will be privillegied than AVIs
Also,the portal mods should be able to see the monthly b/p ratios of the users (ranking),this way,those who get only saves in a month would get blacklisted (for enough evidence,the mods must keep an eye on their monthly ratio for some months)to ban those who fiven/zero-bomb everything.

- decrease the amount of needed votes from 200 to 100

Yep,agree.

- everyone starts recasting their votes on flashes that have been under judgment for a week
- increase the needed score a flashs needs to pass to 2.00 so that crap finally gets blammed, since a vote of 2 is where saving starts, a vote of 1.6 doesn't make sense. the system is already heavily tailored towards protection points as it is, though I can somehow understand the argument that new artists could get scared away by a higher score requirement

Great point,but the "New artists" are not forced to submit anything they make,a "DEMO" or a "TEST" shouldn't be uploaded,plus,If they want feedback,they can always post the flash in the dumping grounds and link to it in a newspost,or promote it on the frontpage with the option "Leave a message".

3. Under judgment flashes are not atractive anymore

Something that I noticed recently is that new fantastic flashes get frontpaged very quickly, sometimes within 10 minutes after being submitted. It is good that new nice stuff gets frontpaged but on the other hand I saw many people stating that they don't bother to look through the rest of the UJ submissions as a result, thus leaving them without votes.

Possible solutions:

- let users take part in the decision what gets frontpaged, add a "Recommend for frontpage button" - then the staff gets the final say if it gets frontpaged or not. Result : users look for hidden games again, more votes arise

Yep,this would be nice,and the voting power would still affect this feature I mean that a newcomer shouldn't have the same weight at recommending a submission for Front page as a regular user.

4. People who like to increase their stats don't care about B/P points anymore, or less than in the past

We have two extremes: regulars that have already the highest rank and a high level and think that their votes don't help and stop voting and then we have the new users : they see that 50 flashes get submitted daily and wonder how they are supposed to get into the quadruple digits and after 2 years they will get bored of waiting 3 months for a new Level icon, which plays second fiddle to the user icons anyways.

Possible Solutions:

- Introduce more higher ranks to give regulars an incentive to vote again

agree.

- add more ranks inbetween the existing ones that can be reached faster

agree.

- get rid of the user icons on the forums, so that the level icon is the centerpiece again (debatable)

disagree,because the user icons reveal some of the personnality of the user.
one more thing:the b/p rank and the whistle could be displayed in the forums too (by some text,no icon)
I really want to see new b/p rank icons (and more b/p ranks)

[Havegum]

1. Under judgment flashes are too hidden
Agree 100%
The classic portal was much better at attracting attention towards new flashes.
The colour system especially meant that a new users attention would always be drawn towards the left side where the new submittions were lined up.

2. No incentive to vote
Absolutely!
Your vote power reaches the ~5 pretty fast, and after that it feels like it doesn't really get much more powerful for each level.
Similarly, the level icons doesn't feel as powerful as they used to. When they were in the place of ones icon it actually had some sort of significance as it was at the time the most distinct personalization you could get on the BBS.

3. Under judgement flashes are not attractive anymore
To build on your point addressing submittions being FP'd too quick, I think the FP should change more frequently. It should be a place to showcase the best of the newest, and not the best of all time.

I think changing the FP more would be of encouragement for new artists, and at the same time give some incentive for other users to visit the FP more frequently. As it is now, Madness:Project Nexus is the biggest offender staying on the FP for around two years, give or take.

I realize this would mean the overall quality of submittions on the FP would drop, but isn't that some of the charm of NG anyway? Seeing new artists rise and put in some real effort to get those few days of FP fame?

4. People who like to increase their stats don't care about B/P points anymore, or less than in the past
I think this somewhat falls under the category "No incentive to vote"
A lot of features that revolved around the level system was removed in the redesign. Secrets, and the importance of the icons and aura.
These days the level icons are barely noticeable and everything but the piss aura is just uninteresting.

Before I got to NG I understand that the aura was based on how you voted? That seems like a decent concept. If not going with that, how about setting aura that boosts your vote power when it meets certain criteria.
Evil could be something like +20% negative vote power when submittion has a score less than 3
Natural could be 10% boost in votes that bumps the submittion towards score 2,5

Perhaps perks could be unlocked as you level up, allowing you to customize the way your vote works in different circumstances.

[RedN]

At 8/21/13 11:07 AM, Archonic wrote:

2. No incentive to vote

This, this and this. I've basically given up voting nowadays because the portal's so goddamn slow, as well as the ongoing entries submitted/blammed thing. Seriously, voting zero doesn't do shit anymore.

You know, I actually noticed that the "under judgment" window was increased from the newest 50 flashes to 65. To me, that's just blatant admission of the problem without actually saying it.

Hey,you shouldn't give up voting,here are 2 examples of some blammed entries : [1];[2]
Both entries have been blammed on the same day (08/19/2013),the first one has gotten a score of 1.54 and the second one 1.58,here your vote can count,I mean that a five could give the submission an extra 0.2 or something,and a 0 would make the score about 1.57
also,I think that the voting power isn't working on art (not sure for the flash portal)
My exp. voting power : 6.08

Before voting : 3.50/5 ; 2 Votes ------- Voted 3 and refreshed the page : 3.33/5 ; 3 Votes

• 

  The White Lion

  by PAL1234567891

  Illustration

  953 Views

  (Everyone)

Before voting : 5.00/5 ; 1 Vote ------- Voted 3 and refreshed the page : 4.00/5 ; 2 Votes (Pretty obvious one)

Before voting : 4.82/5 ; 11 Votes------- Voted 4 and refreshed the page : 4.75/5 ; 12 Votes
It's working on the audio portal:

• 

  Dark & HardStyle

  by DJGenericname

  Not D&B, D&H

  Song

  Dance

  734 Views

  PLAY

before voting : 5.00/5 ; 1 Vote --------Voted 2 and refreshed the page ; 2.60/5 ; 2 Votes
this means : (5a+2X6.08)/(6.08+a)=2.6 (a is the voting power of the other voter)
5a+12.16=15.808+2.6a
(5-2.6)a=15.808-12.16
2.4a=3.648
a=1.52
the vote of the other user was worth 1.52 votes.
Please try voting on new art submissions and calculate the score.

[RedN]

At 8/21/13 12:31 PM, TheRed555 wrote:

http://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/pal1234567891/the-white-lion
Before voting : 5.00/5 ; 1 Vote ------- Voted 3 and refreshed the page : 4.00/5 ; 2 Votes (Pretty obvious one)

To make it more clear :
(5a'+3X6.08)/(a'+6.08)=4 (a' is the voting power of the other user)
5a'+18.24=4a'+24.32
a'=24.32+18.24
a'=6.08
this means that his voting power is equal to mine,that's UNLIKELY.

[Spretznaz]

At 8/21/13 12:31 PM, TheRed555 wrote: Hey,you shouldn't give up voting,here are 2 examples of some blammed entries : [1];[2]
Both entries have been blammed on the same day (08/19/2013),the first one has gotten a score of 1.54 and the second one 1.58,here your vote can count,I mean that a five could give the submission an extra 0.2 or something,and a 0 would make the score about 1.57

When two entries are the norm for how many blams there are a day, that either means that everything's freakishly good or that people are just upping the score for stats. And I think we all know which one it is.

examples of a bunch of submissions

Art and audio use scouting, not B/P. People don't get points for voting on them, so those don't really matter. Now for the two flashes you linked, that change only showed what happens when you're like the 2nd or 3rd person to vote on it. UJ flashes need 200 votes to pass. See what I'm getting at?

[SatanBrain]

Awful flashes do not pass. Good.

[argile]

No one's bothering to vote fairly as much or at all like NG's Earlier years.

[RedN]

At 8/21/13 01:16 PM, Archonic wrote:

At 8/21/13 12:31 PM, TheRed555 wrote: Hey,you shouldn't give up voting,here are 2 examples of some blammed entries : [1];[2]
Both entries have been blammed on the same day (08/19/2013),the first one has gotten a score of 1.54 and the second one 1.58,here your vote can count,I mean that a five could give the submission an extra 0.2 or something,and a 0 would make the score about 1.57

When two entries are the norm for how many blams there are a day, that either means that everything's freakishly good or that people are just upping the score for stats. And I think we all know which one it is.

examples of a bunch of submissions

Art and audio use scouting, not B/P. People don't get points for voting on them, so those don't really matter. Now for the two flashes you linked, that change only showed what happens when you're like the 2nd or 3rd person to vote on it. UJ flashes need 200 votes to pass. See what I'm getting at?

Yes,I know,I can't use a flash as an example because my voting power won't change the score by much (If not at all),the difference is very small but when the score of the submission is just below (or just above) the blam thresold,your five (or your 0) could change it's fate (make it pass 1.6 or make it go under the mark).
People won't see the score while it's under judgement so It doesn't matter when you vote,even if you're the 200th voter,you still can save it (or blam it) sometimes,in addition,you can swap the operations,do you get what I mean?
I also know that things get blammed less than they used to in the past,that's why I want a higher blam thresold.
I just used those art and audio examples to tell that the voting power does NOT affect art submissions,If you give an audio submission that has 5 stars and 1 vote a 3,the score won't go to 4 exactly,there will still be a difference.

[badfurrykitty]

I don't think its broken. I think we just don't vote much. And spend most of our time here.

[ForNoReason]

At 8/21/13 02:02 PM, DecimatorOmega wrote:

Removes way too many of my freaking reviews that were accurate and part of the guidelines. I decided to even block the bot because it eventually spammed my inbox with 3 messages.

You realize that there are review mods right?

[dylan]

The best thought I saw regarding the UJ system came from Tom, he basically was just talking about whether the UJ system is even relevant these days. I mean, people can't always spend 30 minutes a day watching UJ submissions that might completely suck. It's kind of unreasonable in some ways to expect everything to be sorted through when most people can't even find the time to frequent the actual site (e.g. people only following Newgrounds on Tumblr, Facebook, etc.).

The only positive aspects to the UJ system these days are that it guarantees at least 200 views to new submissions, and it gives 5 submissions a good chunk of exposure. But what else can it do? What else can it offer? It's not like the portal is getting spammed horribly anymore, and the few spam submissions we get are passing anyways.

If we want to keep the UJ system as it is now, the only thing to do is work on the incentives to vote. Lowering the number of votes needed would give people more power with one vote. Changing the daily rewards to something different, like maybe more XP points for voting on UJ submissions, would give reason to those that care about stats.

The best thing, I think, would be to change the $100 dollar reward to something non-monetary. Maybe split it up to four voters getting a supporter badge each month, or maybe give out a few pieces of NG merch to 5 or so voters. All I know is that the chances of being that one person to get 100 bucks are slim-to-none, which makes it pointless to vote for the purpose of getting money.

[vezanmatics]

They have a ranking system and a blam/protect system which should provide some incentive to vote, but the problem I see with it is that there is pretty much no visual feedback. You have to go to your homepage or look on a forum in order to see your rank, and you get an obscure little graphic on the left.

They have gaming achievements, sure, and those work well. A flashy little achievement graphic pops up in the top-right corner of your screen. Visual feedback is gratifying; they should apply that same system to voting as well.

[Asandir]

At 8/21/13 03:48 PM, EVanimations wrote: They have a ranking system and a blam/protect system which should provide some incentive to vote, but the problem I see with it is that there is pretty much no visual feedback. You have to go to your homepage or look on a forum in order to see your rank, and you get an obscure little graphic on the left.

They have gaming achievements, sure, and those work well. A flashy little achievement graphic pops up in the top-right corner of your screen. Visual feedback is gratifying; they should apply that same system to voting as well.

I think that's a fair point. There's indeed no visual feedback - maybe bringin back those blam and save animations from the past would be a good start?

At 8/21/13 02:22 PM, SafePlagiarism wrote: The best thought I saw regarding the UJ system came from Tom, he basically was just talking about whether the UJ system is even relevant these days. I mean, people can't always spend 30 minutes a day watching UJ submissions that might completely suck. It's kind of unreasonable in some ways to expect everything to be sorted through when most people can't even find the time to frequent the actual site (e.g. people only following Newgrounds on Tumblr, Facebook, etc.).

It's possible that the system is not suitable for the faster paced internet audience anymore, indeed. It would require a complete rehaul of stat system though. It's likely that the removal of the UJ will become inevitable in the future.

If we want to keep the UJ system as it is now, the only thing to do is work on the incentives to vote. Lowering the number of votes needed would give people more power with one vote. Changing the daily rewards to something different, like maybe more XP points for voting on UJ submissions, would give reason to those that care about stats.

The extra XP sounds good to me and it goes well together with people not being as attached to one site only, 10 years for max level might be a bit off putting for new users. The bad side though is that people with higher levels would be rightfully disgruntled that their gained EXP loses value.

The best thing, I think, would be to change the $100 dollar reward to something non-monetary. Maybe split it up to four voters getting a supporter badge each month, or maybe give out a few pieces of NG merch to 5 or so voters. All I know is that the chances of being that one person to get 100 bucks are slim-to-none, which makes it pointless to vote for the purpose of getting money.

I like those suggestions and agree completely.

At 8/21/13 02:00 PM, badfurrykitty wrote: I don't think its broken. I think we just don't vote much. And spend most of our time here.

Yeah, we need more users who vote. I vote daily - I don't post much though so you are probably right.

[dylan]

At 8/21/13 06:25 PM, Asandir wrote: The extra XP sounds good to me and it goes well together with people not being as attached to one site only, 10 years for max level might be a bit off putting for new users. The bad side though is that people with higher levels would be rightfully disgruntled that their gained EXP loses value.

I guess that's the problem with change in general, someone's going to get screwed over. Whether it's financial reform or fixing a broken judgement system, someone's got to get the shaft if you want anything done.

For example, there's all that talk about speedpaintings being added to the movie portal, and flash artists feel screwed over. If they don't add them to the portal, the art portal guys will still be getting hardly any traffic. You can't please everyone, and sometimes it's better to just go with what's going to be best for the site in the long run.

Basically, whatever Newgrounds does to fix the portal is going to screw one group of people over, especially since Newgrounds caters to such a wide array of subcultures.

In this situation, I suppose an EXP boost for current members based on levels could somewhat solve the issue, but it's not perfect.

[MrDaemon]

I agree with many suggestions in the thread. Place the portal on the homepage or atleast make it less hidden. Remove user icons and display Level/Whistle/B+P Icons when users post so they feel like they're showing off their achievements. Break up the $100 prize into lesser prizes for 3-4 users. Create additional badges and level icons and lower the requirements to the next milestone. Give people additional Exp for each five submissions they vote on under judgement after their initial five for their daily exp, the amount given needs to be discussed. If any of these changes actually see the light of day I'd be happy, not going to hold my breathe though. Glad people are actually talking about the elephant in the room, but unless Tom/Wade/other admins are actually discussing this I consider it wasted words.

[LittleWashu]

I remember when I was coming up, stuff that deserved to get blammed got blammed (unless there was a flash group using it's power to overpower the masses) and what deserved to get saved got saved.

However things changed and now we have a wave of savewhores saving everything because that is what has become the norm.

Not to mention Newgrounds has become so much like youtube it isn't even funny.

[dylan]

At 8/21/13 07:11 PM, Elixur wrote: Glad people are actually talking about the elephant in the room, but unless Tom/Wade/other admins are actually discussing this I consider it wasted words.

No one is more aware of these problems than them, and these topics have a way of making it over to them. I would't be at all surprised to hear that they have seen/read through this thread already, and, even if they haven't, the UJ system is brought up quite often as a part of the site that needs tending.

However, it's one of those things that's going to take a good while before anything is done, simply because a UJ overhaul would mean changing what Newgrounds is now and where it's going in the future.

[vezanmatics]

At 8/21/13 02:22 PM, SafePlagiarism wrote: The best thought I saw regarding the UJ system came from Tom, he basically was just talking about whether the UJ system is even relevant these days.

Where can I find this discussion?

[Asandir]

At 8/21/13 08:53 PM, EVanimations wrote:

At 8/21/13 02:22 PM, SafePlagiarism wrote: The best thought I saw regarding the UJ system came from Tom, he basically was just talking about whether the UJ system is even relevant these days.

Where can I find this discussion?

On Gerkinman's newspost The Newgrounds Portal is completely broken, Tom's first reply:

"I-smel sums up a big thing that has been on my mind - whether the judgment process really is relevant anymore. The system was originally important because we were the only site on the web that allowed people to instantly upload movies and games, and there was gonna be a ton of abuse and storage limitations that required the help of the community to filter it.

Nowadays though, you can upload anywhere. People who don't create content can also get a lot more personal satisfaction by sharing things they like socially, by liking on Facebook or posting something on their Tumblr. People aren't getting that much satisfaction from anonymously helping a random game or movie through the judgment process of a website that doesn't have nearly the eyeballs of sites like YouTube.

And do artists really enjoy having the users decide whether their content stays or goes? You can upload your movie to YouTube and you have a guaranteed home, it's there on your page and if it sucks that's on you. Why spend extra time uploading your movie to a less popular site, where some people you don't know might decide it isn't good enough to exist? Why is that even anyone else's call anymore in this day and age of unlimited storage? [...] "