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Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art

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Exedor
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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 02:53 PM Reply

No.

Art, yes. Videos, no.

Speedpaints can be cool when done right, but they're not always done right. About 6 months ago, a guy submitted a "speedpaint" that was 28 minutes long. It was removed or I'd link it. But still, speedpaints, as cool as some are, they're not animation.

Newgrounds started as a site that hosted animations and games done in Flash. While the available software has expanded beyond Flash, the fact that this site caters exclusively to animation sets it apart from others.

Allowing more speedpaints by creating a place for them encourages more of them to come in. Separating the animation from the 'movies' is an option, but it opens the floodgates for massive abuse.

I fear that the animations that people worked hard on, and were the core and heart of Newgrounds, would be eclipsed by the sheer volume of the videos that people didn't. Examples?

A child with a video camera can be a dangerous thing. When one sees this, someday, another will want to "do that too." With the automated system here on newgrounds, the constraints can easily be missed, and then abuse happens. (Yes, the file size and run-time you saw are correct.)

For every video submitted, there's that danger that someone will decide to copy them. That's great with flash. Yes, PLEASE come join us in making GOOD animations. They don't have to be perfect, but we can tell if you tried and if you didn't. I'd MUCH rather see a submission that's still not perfect, but he keeps improving and trying, than to see anything from a bored kid with a camera. (BTW, that's a 'speedpaint' ...er, speed-draw..?)

Youtube accepts everything, and that's why we avoid it and spend so much of our lives here on Newgrounds. Opening the door to more videos opens the door to "Newgrounds" becoming "Newtube," and hard working animators' works being mixed in with those who didn't, those who don't, and those who can't.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 03:14 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 01:10 PM, TomFulp wrote: We will also be revisiting the Alphas concept from years ago, where unpublished projects have a public face where news can be posted. For example imagine if Road of the Dead 2 had a hub this entire time that it's been in development.

Is that like a dedicated "test" section? I'd like to see a 'test' section that isn't right in there with the Portals, but isn't something that has to be searched out thru a maze of pages.

There are many "tests" that come thru the Portal because people are new and don't know about Dumping Grounds, or they don't care and want the views that the Portal provides. Having a Test Portal would allow tests to come thru and get views and critiques without having to post a link in the forums. The Test Portal could be an extension of the forums, tho. Submissions to the Test Portal could/should be auto-deleted after a period of time (a month?), so that unfinished works don't sit in the database for decades (like the 3300 pages of unscouted art that'll never go anywhere).

This would allow us a place to send people when they submit tests to the Portal, rather than having a low scoring, incomplete submission pass judgement. It just seems wrong to allow unfinished, pointless tests to sit right next to something that someone actually spent time and effort on, y'know?

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 03:25 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 03:14 PM, Exedor wrote:
At 8/16/13 01:10 PM, TomFulp wrote: We will also be revisiting the Alphas concept from years ago, where unpublished projects have a public face where news can be posted. For example imagine if Road of the Dead 2 had a hub this entire time that it's been in development.

We'll have a listing section for "Previews" where people can browse unpublished projects, if the creators choose to list them. The preview page could be as simple as some commentary on what the project is, but it could also include ongoing news updates and access to the preview file. This could definitely help to discourage people from publishing something that isn't finished, since they can list it in the previews section and keep working on it while getting feedback.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 03:55 PM Reply

I think having a way to just search for speed paintings and similar videos would be fantastic! But I don't want cartoons to have to compete with them. I think Cartoons and Games are most important. Some speedpaints could even be called tutorials, I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of tutorial section, perhaps they could go there too? There are a lot of cool tutorials here on NG if you dig for them.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 04:29 PM Reply

You know what could solve this kind of problem? An unrated portal that's sorted by popularity. You could choose which one you want it put into when you submit. Then you could use the tag system to browse for tutorials or whatever, and sort out the crap with the popularity rating.

Somewhat related, but I often wish I could leave a comment without a rating, too. It's kind of funny, Newgrounds and Deviantart seem to operate on two extremes, where NG only accepts critical commentary, and Deviantart users seem to reject it completely. There's gotta be a healthy middle in there somewhere.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 04:32 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 04:29 PM, Kajenx wrote: Somewhat related, but I often wish I could leave a comment without a rating, too. It's kind of funny, Newgrounds and Deviantart seem to operate on two extremes, where NG only accepts critical commentary, and Deviantart users seem to reject it completely. There's gotta be a healthy middle in there somewhere.

This is an option I would like to try as well. We worry about reviews devolving into lots of one word garbage like "cool!" and "meh" but hopefully we can maintain some level of intelligence in the responses. The one downside is that if a lot of people stop including scores, we'll actually lose my preferred metric - I find the review scores to be much more accurate than the voting scores. For example most games nowadays average a three (which is a huge problem in itself) but of those games, review scores could either be all 0-2 stars or all 4-5 stars... And tend to give a much better impression of whether the game is cool.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 04:37 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 04:32 PM, TomFulp wrote: This is an option I would like to try as well. We worry about reviews devolving into lots of one word garbage like "cool!" and "meh" but hopefully we can maintain some level of intelligence in the responses. The one downside is that if a lot of people stop including scores, we'll actually lose my preferred metric - I find the review scores to be much more accurate than the voting scores. For example most games nowadays average a three (which is a huge problem in itself) but of those games, review scores could either be all 0-2 stars or all 4-5 stars... And tend to give a much better impression of whether the game is cool.

That is interesting, because people are just high/low voting for the daily exp? While the people that bother to comment are actually expressing an opinion and can only vote once?

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 04:41 PM Reply

I'm against the idea. It would move a step away from animations, which is what I think most people here care about watching in the Movies portal. If it's somehow integrated into the Art Portal or somehow it doesn't interfere with the animations I'd be fine with it though.

At 8/16/13 04:32 PM, TomFulp wrote: This is an option I would like to try as well. We worry about reviews devolving into lots of one word garbage like "cool!" and "meh" but hopefully we can maintain some level of intelligence in the responses. The one downside is that if a lot of people stop including scores, we'll actually lose my preferred metric - I find the review scores to be much more accurate than the voting scores. For example most games nowadays average a three (which is a huge problem in itself) but of those games, review scores could either be all 0-2 stars or all 4-5 stars... And tend to give a much better impression of whether the game is cool.

To be honest I always thought it would be cool to have it split into two options - writing a comment and writing a review. Comments needn't be complemented by a score and you can post more than one comment on a submission with one account (like YouTube comments). They'd also have a no minimum character limit and a maximum character limit of something like 500 characters. Then reviews would be different; a review would have a minimum character limit (say, 500 or maybe less), would need to be complemented by a score, and you can only post one review per account on a submission.

However, that might overcomplicate things, so I don't know.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 04:50 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 02:53 PM, Exedor wrote: Stuff

Could always just bring up the score requirements for blaming too. The scores on NG have gone up quite a bit over time, but I don't think the guides for blam/protect have, have they?


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 04:55 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 04:32 PM, TomFulp wrote: This is an option I would like to try as well. We worry about reviews devolving into lots of one word garbage like "cool!" and "meh" but hopefully we can maintain some level of intelligence in the responses. The one downside is that if a lot of people stop including scores, we'll actually lose my preferred metric - I find the review scores to be much more accurate than the voting scores. For example most games nowadays average a three (which is a huge problem in itself) but of those games, review scores could either be all 0-2 stars or all 4-5 stars... And tend to give a much better impression of whether the game is cool.

Actually, that's a pretty good point. Deviantart has those "critiques" now, but they don't seem to get used much. That could be because it's a paid feature though...


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 04:56 PM Reply

Alright it seems like the biggest worry from people is that they're imagining it as interfering with the Movies portal.

I feel like I addressed that, to just not have em accessible from the same space that movies are, and only link em from within the Art portal.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:17 PM Reply

Only if there are enough submissions like these. Let's say at least 400.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:19 PM Reply

I approve of this, not only that but is going to be like a month or so i was talking with Me. VicariousE about what if NG had an app that allowed to stream speed paint or tutorial videos, but not only that it also allowed for collaborations, and file conversion in real time, then the finished painting could be uploaded to the art portal, and the video will remain in the its own section under speed paint, or tutorials, Jazza recently uploaded a video on YouTube about increasing his programs, and was talking about making a section when he would hang out with his fans, wouldn't it be great if that was done in Newgrounds? that way the making, and hosting is all in the same place, he could always upload it later on to YT if he wished so, but it all would be taking place here.

http://sabtastic.newgrounds.com/news/post/852800 in here it was that idea started, originally was going to be a game like the drawing grounds, but a featured application would be nicer, and increase the traffic to the page, and in that case the speed paint and tutorial videos, while still being movies could have its own place in the art portal, that way avoiding conflict the more traditional videos, on the other hand i don't know how the featured and top 5 would work under that scenario.

But regardless of all that i absolutely thing that NG should adopt this media.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:27 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 02:53 PM, Exedor wrote: Great stuff

This guy nailed it. I'm in the same boat as him. I don't want the speedpaint videos here out of fear it'll lead to something worse.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:28 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 11:26 AM, Tanadrine-Studios wrote: I'd have to throw in a vote on the "no" side. If people want to throw in their speedpaint videos, they can always do it through their news posts.

I don't think it would add much to Newgrounds. NG is not YouTube and my thought is that it will kill some of the only core advantages that NG has. People don't have to sift through countless off topic videos to find quality animations, games and art from people all over the world. There is no other place to my knowledge on the internet that makes that as easy as on Newgrounds.

I second that motion. I don't see newgrounds as a place for speedpaints, it would flood things and overlap their own animation work or such if they animate, youtube is more suited for that or other places, they can always embed the video on their posts if people are interested. If more speedpaints got frontpaged, I won't lie, i'd be pretty pissed to see NG go that route. Also like others said, if they go that route, who knows what else would be allowed.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:31 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 10:29 AM, TomFulp wrote: The question has come up recently about whether we should have a Movies category for Speedpainting. Newgrounds is all about creating stuff, so creating Art does fall under that category. For an example, you can check out the speedpaints on Jazza's Drawing with Jazza YouTube channel.

The big question is whether speedpaint videos will completely flood the Portal and make it harder to find animations. We could consider something that filters them out of the main listings if they become an issue. Would you guys like to see more speedpaint art videos and would you like to submit your own?

ALSO:

5 Days Remain to Support these NG Artists on Kickstarter!

I almost feel that you should have an alternate way of submission ready for speed paints. You should allow them to do so. however when/if they flood the portal have an alternate and separate section for them to submit.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:31 PM Reply

If it's to be allowed, it'll need a strict leash, otherwise it'll become rampant with bad quality.

At the very least have it in a specific corner.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:33 PM Reply

No, we don't need Speedpainting videos, or Time-Lapse videos, we don't need to turn into YouTube.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:35 PM Reply

I suppose it wouldnt hurt to try.


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:49 PM Reply

I would say yes, provided that these speedpaint videos do not compete with the games and movies. I do not know what this would entail for the Art Portal. The first idea that comes to mind is that if there is a speedpaint video, it could perhaps be embedded within the description, or as a sidebar feature for that particular piece of art. So something like:

Sidebar not only has the 0-5 voting thing, but also two buttons where you can shift back-and-forth from the artwork and the speedpaint video.

Wonder if this can be implemented...


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 05:54 PM Reply

No Tom! DON'T! Do not sellout the souls of NG! This is for the place of creative flashes, not a place for randomness, leave that to Youtube!


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 06:03 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 12:13 PM, BenjaminTibbetts wrote: Maybe. Isn't speed-painting a subgenre of general behind-the-scenes content? Couldn't there could be categories for speed-programming, speed-animating and speed-composing using the same logic?

Newgrounds could go down that route. It's conceivable that, underneath each menu item for "Games", "Movies", "Audio" and "Art" there could be an option like "Video Tutorials" or "Learn How!". Speed-painting would find a place as an educational tool.
At 8/16/13 01:41 PM, ZenithQuinn wrote: To be honest, I don't think it should start with speedpainting as a new format to be added to the portal,
I think it should be art related tutorials with actual narration instead of a sped up video of someone drawing with some music on top.

I think Jazza's tutorials should be uploaded at least, to test the waters since they're of such high quality and people would really learn to improve from them!

You know i'm loving both of these ideas to give a tutorial section to each portal, facilitating access, also you could put guidelines to ask for better quality, that way we get better content and not just a bunch of garbage with background music.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 06:05 PM Reply

Timelapse on newsgroups.Sounds amasing.Im having a lot of them about cities/nature.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHVSmJSu7XU

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 06:10 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 06:05 PM, legotowercity wrote: Timelapse on newsgroups.Sounds amasing.Im having a lot of them about cities/nature.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHVSmJSu7XU

Timelapse on newsgroups.Sounds amasing.Im having a lot of them about cities/nature.
video But this stuff isnt speed painting.Its like real life vid showing long process like clouds moving.Unfortunaly here are no real vids exept animations.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 06:31 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 05:54 PM, Elitistinen wrote: No Tom! DON'T!

I think I need to break your post down:

Do not sellout the souls of NG!

How is showing off speedpaint vids "selling-out"?
Hell, how is it even butchering the soul of NG if people are STILL going to post animations in the movie portal?

This is for the place of creative flashes

and animations,
and games,
and audio,
and paintings,
and other stuff.

not a place for randomness

At its roots NG was all about the randomness, trying out new things.

leave that to Youtube!

And when all else fails, blame it on YouTube.

There were speedpaint vids in the movie portal long before this thread was made, and nobody gave a toss about them. There isn't a flood of people waiting to upload speedpaint vids anytime soon.

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 06:43 PM Reply

no thank you

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 06:50 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 06:31 PM, CankerousKitty wrote: bullshit

Look at his art...

Oops! How much do you know about art?


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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 06:53 PM Reply

I have made one why shouldn't i be able to upload this http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/623128

Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 07:04 PM Reply

At 8/16/13 06:50 PM, Elitistinen wrote:
At 8/16/13 06:31 PM, CankerousKitty wrote: an argument to a stick-in-the-mud BBSer
Look at his art...
Oops! How much do you know about art?

How does my superior ability and knowledge about art (compared to yourself) dismiss the valid points I made in my argument?

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Response to Time-Lapse / Speedpaint Art Aug. 16th, 2013 @ 07:12 PM Reply

Though i know this would add more work but it would be cool as a feature only found in the art portal. So within the the authors comments there could be an embed for the speedvideo