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Rig's Room Treatment Adventures

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SFaPiL2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 05:21 AM Reply

I'm no expert on the matter, Rig, but I believe that you need to make your room more symmetrical. You should add a panel* (with similar reflective properties as the slanted wall to the other side) and two cylindrical sound absorbers where those upper corners are in order to absorb the late reflections coming from there.

I think that you should place your monitors closer to the desk, slightly past the door, in order to avoid different reflections caused by it.

*You could use the space behind that pannel for Isolating the noise caused by the power supply (that you'll inevitably need for all the equipment). Plus an isolated cooling system would be required in there in order to avoid overheating.

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Rig's Room Treatment Adventures

SFaPiL2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 05:24 AM Reply

At 10/3/11 05:21 AM, SFaPiL2 wrote: *You could use the space behind that pannel for Isolating the noise caused by the power supply (that you'll inevitably need for all the equipment). Plus an isolated cooling system would be required in there in order to avoid overheating.

I phrased what I meant in a strange way, sorry. I meant:

You could put all the power supplies behind that panel I drew in the previous image I uploaded. Those things make alot of noise.

WhistlerMusicUK
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 10:17 AM Reply

At 10/3/11 05:24 AM, SFaPiL2 wrote:
At 10/3/11 05:21 AM, SFaPiL2 wrote: *You could use the space behind that pannel for Isolating the noise caused by the power supply (that you'll inevitably need for all the equipment). Plus an isolated cooling system would be required in there in order to avoid overheating.
I phrased what I meant in a strange way, sorry. I meant:

You could put all the power supplies behind that panel I drew in the previous image I uploaded. Those things make alot of noise.

I thought asymetrical rooms were good?? Makes it harder for standing waves to propegate doesn't it?

SFaPiL2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 12:49 PM Reply

At 10/3/11 10:17 AM, WhistlerMusicUK wrote:
At 10/3/11 05:24 AM, SFaPiL2 wrote:
At 10/3/11 05:21 AM, SFaPiL2 wrote: *You could use the space behind that pannel for Isolating the noise caused by the power supply (that you'll inevitably need for all the equipment). Plus an isolated cooling system would be required in there in order to avoid overheating.
I phrased what I meant in a strange way, sorry. I meant:

You could put all the power supplies behind that panel I drew in the previous image I uploaded. Those things make alot of noise.
I thought asymetrical rooms were good?? Makes it harder for standing waves to propegate doesn't it?

Strange. Most pictures of good mastering studios I remember are very symmetrical. Besides, I've visited two recording studios lately and their control rooms were all perfectly symmetrical. They even had glass panels with the sole purpose of being exactly identical to the glass panel at the other side of the room (which was necessary to be able to look into the recording room).

Here's an example of typical control room in a recording studio (bottom right):

the left and right side of the room are perfectly symmetrical.

Rig's Room Treatment Adventures

Chris-V2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 04:09 PM Reply

You'll actually find there's 2 schools of thought.

The first being that assymetry prevents huge modal coloring on sound, which it does since obviously the resonant frequency of the room changes depending on the point on the wall in which the sound wave hits relative to the surface parallel to it.

The second being that asymetry makes room modes harder to quantify and that knowing your problems and tackling them is far easier than mathematicle approximation and then testing for bizare spacial phenomenons.

Both are correct, but assymetry I beleive is preferred in lower budget arrangements and in bigger rooms as it's cheaper to do broad frequency fixes rather than targeting a set of specific notches and peaks and that larger rooms diminish sound so much that modes are much less of an issue.

Mastering suites are a seperate kettle of fish, it's not uncommon for a mastering engineer to keep his monitors very close to his face so he can completely ignore the sound of the room regardless of how well it interacts with the sound. They're interested in the specific output of the monitors and they're generaly more into deadening rooms too.

SFaPiL2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 04:20 PM Reply

Thanks Chris. Good to know.

Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 04:23 PM Reply

At 10/3/11 05:21 AM, SFaPiL2 wrote: I'm no expert on the matter, Rig, but I believe that you need to make your room more symmetrical. You should add a panel* (with similar reflective properties as the slanted wall to the other side) and two cylindrical sound absorbers where those upper corners are in order to absorb the late reflections coming from there.

That's an interesting thought - I never considered adding a wall like that to make it symmetrical. I'll keep that in mind.
In the meantime, I'm gonna order some foam and stuff to make my absorbers.


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Chris-V2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 05:23 PM Reply

Would also like to add that the room in that diagram is not symetrical, the side and back walls are slanted and the very back is actually a corner. Assymtry in a room doesn't have to be radical, 10 degrees works, theoreticloy, as well as 3 degrees or 30 degrees.

Also vertical slanting is common on glass and on walls in "room within a room" designs.

Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 05:42 PM Reply

I'm gonna take advantage of Auralex's free room analysis service. These guys should know what they're doing. :D


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SFaPiL2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 06:38 PM Reply

At 10/3/11 05:23 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: Would also like to add that the room in that diagram is not symetrical, the side and back walls are slanted and the very back is actually a corner.

What you pointed out is true, but that's why I also considered adding Absorbing material on those corners (those two white circles in the picture). Their purpose was to absorb the reflections in those two corners as much as possible while the panel would make the room as "symmetrical" as possible in the lower half of the room. I thought it was better than leaving the room exactly the way it was.

Other things would be necessary, of course, like bass traps on the rear of the desk and diffusor panels, maybe, but their placement needs measurements, experience and the knowledge I do not possess.

Assymtry in a room doesn't have to be radical, 10 degrees works, theoreticloy, as well as 3 degrees or 30 degrees.

I didn't know about the whole asymmetry school-of-thought before now. I'll go and do some research on the matter. Thanks for the info.

SFaPiL2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 3rd, 2011 @ 06:40 PM Reply

At 10/3/11 05:42 PM, Rig wrote: I'm gonna take advantage of Auralex's free room analysis service. These guys should know what they're doing. :D

Pretty cool. Best of luck with everything, Rig.

Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 4th, 2011 @ 12:18 AM Reply

Woot. I went and measured EVERYTHING and put my numbers into a new Sketchup model. Download it here - http://www.mediafire.com/?qql91tzfb2oeg6 e

You'll notice that the floor slants. That might help. Or not. Who knows?

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FatKidWitAJetPak
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 4th, 2011 @ 12:59 AM Reply

Woh, its starting to sound AWESOME. Make sure to have plenty of absorption for all that heavy bass. Is the room fairly low to the ground?

This project sounds right up your alley. You always were the technical kind of guy with actual physical elements, unlike us fags who go around twisting knobs and sliding levers acting like the we own this site lololo.

Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 4th, 2011 @ 01:44 AM Reply

At 10/4/11 12:59 AM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: Woh, its starting to sound AWESOME. Make sure to have plenty of absorption for all that heavy bass. Is the room fairly low to the ground?

It's on the second story of an older building. Below is a pic!

This project sounds right up your alley. You always were the technical kind of guy with actual physical elements, unlike us fags who go around twisting knobs and sliding levers acting like the we own this site lololo.

I come from a technical family. I love building things :D
Also, I just bought a pair of AVI ADM9Ts. I hope I made the right choice.

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Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 6th, 2011 @ 10:56 AM Reply

The first set of bass traps have arrived. I chose them based on their low-frequency absorption capabilities, obviously

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Reaper93
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 6th, 2011 @ 11:41 AM Reply

Hah, reminds me of the good old closet full of clothes aka "vocal booth". Only the best of course ;)

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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 7th, 2011 @ 04:41 AM Reply

Get a penicorn plush (do they have those?). Requisition someone from the art portal to produce an artistic masterpiece for your studio. have ugly Sheppard fan fiction everywhere (I remembered).


Syntrus keeping it real with fake computer music since 2006
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Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 7th, 2011 @ 07:24 PM Reply

Well, no absorbers have been built yet, but I got one of the most important pieces of equipment a studio can have...

...a COFFEE MAKER.

The ottoman holds pillows and a blankie, for impromptu naptimes. :D

Rig's Room Treatment Adventures


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Back-From-Purgatory
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 7th, 2011 @ 07:28 PM Reply

I'm totally jelly.


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Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 7th, 2011 @ 07:48 PM Reply

At 10/7/11 07:28 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: I'm totally jelly.

Come for a visit someday.


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jarrydn
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 7th, 2011 @ 11:07 PM Reply

May I also come for a visit some time? I will bring a gift, nibbles etc

Rampant
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 01:14 AM Reply

I had to take a couple of courses on studio treatment & design... I never really thought I'd use it, though, as I'd probably just hire someone else to do my professional mixing.

Anyway, putting up rugs, curtains, and, yes, even carpeting, on the wall will help deaden higher frequencies, but won't be thick enough to absorb lower-end bass soundwaves -- the couches are a good start to that, plus it gives you a seat further back from the mixing desk, to get a different perspective. (Or if you have guests over.)

I don't know how much vocal recording you do, but building a small vocal booth in the back corner of the room would a) give you a recording booth (no shit), and b) help make your room asymmetrical and, if you leave the door open, acting as a nice bass trap.

As for the ceiling, personally I'd go for something like this because it a) can act as a bass trap, b) randomly reflects soundwaves, and c) looks cool:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachmen ts/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/1 14190d1237157380-diffusors-small-booth-c ontrol-room-backyard-studio-panels-view-
15-cr-ceiling-broadband-angled.jpg

Pretty much just... avoid having too much that can reflect soundwaves right back in your direction and you'll be fine :)

Xyresic
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 10:51 AM Reply

I have no idea what any of this stuff means. You guys know of anything that could help me learn?


bork bork bork

Chris-V2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 11:05 AM Reply

At 10/8/11 10:51 AM, Xyresic wrote: I have no idea what any of this stuff means. You guys know of anything that could help me learn?

Everman's Master Handbook Of Acoustics, and I think it gets touched on in the Yahama Sound Reinforcement Handbook, too.

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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 03:03 PM Reply

At 10/8/11 11:05 AM, Chris-V2 wrote:
At 10/8/11 10:51 AM, Xyresic wrote: I have no idea what any of this stuff means. You guys know of anything that could help me learn?
Everman's Master Handbook Of Acoustics, and I think it gets touched on in the Yahama Sound Reinforcement Handbook, too.

Do you mean F. Alton Everest? I have this book and it helps a lot to know trig and some calc to really get much help from it in my opinion.

Chris-V2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 03:39 PM Reply

At 10/8/11 03:03 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote:
Do you mean F. Alton Everest? I have this book and it helps a lot to know trig and some calc to really get much help from it in my opinion.

Well that's because it's an acoustics book, and acoustics is an application of mathematics! Nevertheless anyone from the ages of 16-18+ should be able to handle the mathematics used within Everest's book.

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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 03:57 PM Reply

At 10/8/11 03:39 PM, Chris-V2 wrote:
Well that's because it's an acoustics book, and acoustics is an application of mathematics! Nevertheless anyone from the ages of 16-18+ should be able to handle the mathematics used within Everest's book.

Thanks for making me feel stupid and cry.

/wrists

Rig
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 07:35 PM Reply

At 10/8/11 11:05 AM, Chris-V2 wrote:
At 10/8/11 10:51 AM, Xyresic wrote: I have no idea what any of this stuff means. You guys know of anything that could help me learn?
Everman's Master Handbook Of Acoustics, and I think it gets touched on in the Yahama Sound Reinforcement Handbook, too.

I just ordered that handbook :3


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Chris-V2
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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 10:47 PM Reply

At 10/8/11 03:57 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote:
Thanks for making me feel stupid and cry.

/wrists

NP.

Srsly, in Ireland you can't even finish school without Trigonometry and you wont even get a look into engineer courses without having done Calculus to the level of things like Newton-Rhapson method. We stop just short of things like FFT, which is sad face for me (I couldn't do the maths I can do now, as schools generaly avoid contextualising the maths).

Also, rape this thread with acoustical maths you find difficult and let's see what we can do!

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Response to Rig's Room Treatment Adventures Oct. 8th, 2011 @ 11:02 PM Reply

OMG! That ladder looks like so much fun! Should use it as your secret agent exit...

Rig's Room Treatment Adventures