Finally got to see this weeks episode.

I loved it. I loved it a lot. The premise was amazing and the story telling was very good. I feel like any other writer would have made it all jokes (which would be fine with me too) but Gaiman's writing was, I think, better than that by far. Lots of good bits with the Doctor.

I quite enjoyed seeing the Doctor/Tardis interactions, as well as seeing more of the inside of the Tardis.

That episode was wonderful. Absolutely loved the TARDIS and how she and The Doctor interacted with each other, and seeing more of the inside of the TARDIS was pretty cool, even if they were just hallways.

At 5/15/11 03:06 PM, Oolaph wrote: That episode was wonderful. Absolutely loved the TARDIS and how she and The Doctor interacted with each other, and seeing more of the inside of the TARDIS was pretty cool, even if they were just hallways.

kasdghasdghasdfgop I just said exactly that.

At 5/15/11 03:13 PM, SomaGuye wrote: kasdghasdghasdfgop I just said exactly that.

I didn't see it, okay? I just clicked reply at the top of the screen.

At 5/15/11 03:18 PM, Oolaph wrote:

At 5/15/11 03:13 PM, SomaGuye wrote: kasdghasdghasdfgop I just said exactly that.

I didn't see it, okay? I just clicked reply at the top of the screen.

hey, did you guys like how the Doctor and the TARDIS interacted and howbout those scenes in other parts of the TARDIS!

Honestly? I think it was my favourite Doctor Who episode ever, both classic and revival. Not even exaggerating; I thought it was that good.

last episode was great , really interesting with the great twist of thew tardis lady , is the u.s up to uk's doctor who timeline??? also...unrelated but....how do you make those banner thingys?

Guess I'm in the minority with regards to the last episode, then. Still say that for all the great character interaction there simply wasn't enough story to keep the thing moving forwards.

At 5/15/11 05:27 PM, Ghilliesniper wrote: last episode was great , really interesting with the great twist of thew tardis lady , is the u.s up to uk's doctor who timeline???

Yeah, they're airing the same day now, for the first time ever (although it has aired in America first before, with both The Five Doctors and the TVM showing there before the UK).

At 5/15/11 06:03 PM, TheMaster wrote: Guess I'm in the minority with regards to the last episode, then. Still say that for all the great character interaction there simply wasn't enough story to keep the thing moving forwards.

Being in the minority is pretty fun. I couldn't stand Turn Left or The Doctor's Daughter (in fact, most of series 4) and so many people have been like 'DUDE, how can you not love these episodes?'

I saw this one not as a story driven episode, but as a character driven one. The villain isn't explained, but hey, it worked in Midnight and it works just as well if not better here. And that goodbye scene at the end was a thing of pure beauty IMHO.

At 5/15/11 06:42 PM, joza1 wrote: Being in the minority is pretty fun. I couldn't stand Turn Left or The Doctor's Daughter (in fact, most of series 4) and so many people have been like 'DUDE, how can you not love these episodes?'

Turn Left was trash, The Doctor's Daughter was average at best, and series 4 is the worst series of the revival.

it worked in Midnight

Oh god don't get my started on Midnight. Contender for worst episode of the show and for some reason people loved it. The dialogue is painfully bad. The worst part of RTD's writing is his dialogue (except for maybe endings, he was awful at endings too), and the entire episode is nothing but.

At 5/15/11 06:03 PM, TheMaster wrote: Guess I'm in the minority with regards to the last episode, then.

Well, if it makes you feel better, I didn't think it was great either. One of the things that annoyed me the most was the fast switching from "intense" to "humour"; it just made me feel weird.
Though, props for throwing in some references to the classic series like ejecting rooms of the TARDIS for thrust.

I wish Dr Who confidential played in the US :(

Neil Gaiman I guess reads some bits from the script that were scrapped. He also mentioned on his twitter that there were more rooms in his original script (although, I guess when you shed rooms for speed, you kind of lose options for internal shots later on.

At 5/15/11 06:56 PM, TheMaster wrote: Turn Left was trash

YES SOMEONE AGREES this is the first time ever.

Oh god don't get my started on Midnight. Contender for worst episode of the show and for some reason people loved it. The dialogue is painfully bad. The worst part of RTD's writing is his dialogue (except for maybe endings, he was awful at endings too), and the entire episode is nothing but.

It's one of those that's grown on me. The writing is average, borderline bad, but it's the actors that sell it. Rarely do you see a 'bottle episode' like that where the different characters have personalities. Curse of the Black Spot? Did the other pirates even have names? In Midnight, every character adds something to the story, and that's why it's a decent episode in my opinion. That and it doesn't have much of the travesty known as Donna Noble.

I'm loving this crew, you can have differences in opinion without someone going 'OMGWTF'

More controversial opinions?

Caves of Androzani is great, but isn't in the same league as a lot of the serials it beats out when it keeps winning best serial ever votes.

The Cybermen are shit and have one good serial, a couple of average ones, and a whole lot of awful ones.

Blink isn't Moffat's best story. Maybe not even top 3.

Good way to get some discussion going in here rather than just the episode reviews this club usually consists of.

At 5/16/11 12:24 PM, TheMaster wrote: More controversial opinions?

Caves of Androzani is great, but isn't in the same league as a lot of the serials it beats out when it keeps winning best serial ever votes.

I liked it fine, it wasn't bad and it was a pretty good way for Davison to go, but even with my limited experience of the classics it didn't hit me as much as it did other people. I think my favourite classic serial so far is Greatest Show in the Galaxy.

The Cybermen are shit and have one good serial, a couple of average ones, and a whole lot of awful ones.

I lke them more now I've seen Tomb of the Cybermen. The Christmas special was awful, Rise of the Cybermen was meh, Doomsday stuff was dreadful. In fact Doomsday itself was dreadful.

Blink isn't Moffat's best story. Maybe not even top 3.

It's not Beast Below bad though. My top 3 Moffat stories would go Pandorica/Big Bang, Library/Forest, Empty Child/Doctor Dances in that order. I didn't really like Girl in the Fireplace either.

There's a few of the 'little' episodes that I absolutely love. End of the World, Tooth and Claw, School Reunion, Gridlock, Fires of Pompeii, and The Lodger stick out. Nothing amazing about them, but I like them for some reason.

I love the new Dalek designs.

I cannot stand Rose and Donna, and from what little I've seen of Adric, I kind of like him.

This is controversial in my experience.

You want a controversial opinion? I think series 3 has been my least favourite series of the revival so far, save for the last few episodes of it. Martha is my least favourite companion, too.

In terms of Moffat's episodes from before series 5, I'd have to say I like The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances and The Girl in the Fireplace more than Blink.

At 5/16/11 12:44 PM, joza1 wrote: I think my favourite classic serial so far is Greatest Show in the Galaxy.

Seasons 25-26 are my favourite part of the series, but Greatest Show over The Curse of Fenric? Can't agree with that.

I lke them more now I've seen Tomb of the Cybermen. The Christmas special was awful, Rise of the Cybermen was meh, Doomsday stuff was dreadful. In fact Doomsday itself was dreadful.

Tomb's the only good one. Tenth Planet is dull, full of bad science and has a shite ending, The Moonbase is bog standard base under siege stuff, watchable but forgettable, The Wheel In Space is just a mess, The Invasion is about an hour too long, Revenge is passable but well below par compared with the rest of the fantastic season 12, Earthshock is pretty decent albeit very campy, The Five Doctors isn't strictly a Cybermen story despite them featuring heavy, but is rubbish anyway, Attack of the Cybermen is horrific, and Silver Nemesis descends into absurdity with ace firing gold coins from a slingshot to decimate an entire Cyber attack team.

All of their new series appearances have been shit, especially since they've been turned into catchphrase spouting Dalek clones instead of actually being Cybermen.

It's not Beast Below bad though. My top 3 Moffat stories would go Pandorica/Big Bang, Library/Forest, Empty Child/Doctor Dances in that order. I didn't really like Girl in the Fireplace either.

Girl In The Fireplace might be my favourite Moffat, actually, and I wasn't all that keen on Pandorica/Big Bang. Loved this season opener

There's a few of the 'little' episodes that I absolutely love. End of the World, Tooth and Claw, School Reunion, Gridlock, Fires of Pompeii, and The Lodger stick out. Nothing amazing about them, but I like them for some reason.

I HATED The Lodger. By far the worst part of series 5, and I'm dreading James fucking Corden coming back this series.

I love the new Dalek designs.

Not a fan, still prefer the non-gold RTD ones. Certainly wasn't angry about them or anything. Think the Genesis/Renegade Daleks are still my favourite.

I cannot stand Rose and Donna

Rose was shit because she was dull and uninteresting yet the series was focussed on her, Donna was worse because she was actively irritating.

and from what little I've seen of Adric, I kind of like him.

I think that's actually punishable by hanging. What have you seen him in? Watch something like Four to Doomsday and you'll understand the hate. Best bit of Earthshock is knowing he's never coming back.

At 5/16/11 01:17 PM, TheMaster wrote:

Seasons 25-26 are my favourite part of the series, but Greatest Show over The Curse of Fenric? Can't agree with that.

Curse of Fenric is definitely up there, I love how the Doctor screws around with Ace's mind at the end, but for some reason I really love Greatest Show. The Five Doctors is growing on me too, even if they do overuse 'X of Rassilon.'

All of their new series appearances have been shit, especially since they've been turned into catchphrase spouting Dalek clones instead of actually being Cybermen.

Got to agree there. Question: Is 'delete' a new series thing or have they said that before?

Girl In The Fireplace might be my favourite Moffat, actually, and I wasn't all that keen on Pandorica/Big Bang. Loved this season opener

There were bits of the opener that didn't make sense to me, and those little niggles just keep me from saying I love them. I like them, but don't love them. I think Eleventh Hour is my favourite opener.

I HATED The Lodger. By far the worst part of series 5, and I'm dreading James fucking Corden coming back this series.

He's coming back? He was crap in series 5, and he's coming back? I know I said I liked the episode, but that was purely down to Matt Smith.

and from what little I've seen of Adric, I kind of like him.

I think that's actually punishable by hanging. What have you seen him in? Watch something like Four to Doomsday and you'll understand the hate. Best bit of Earthshock is knowing he's never coming back.

...When I say little, I mean REALLY little.
First part of Logopolis, a few clips from Earthshock, and I've been told that that Adam guy from Dalek is comparable to him.
Yeah, that really isn't a solid basis at all is it? I should watch more classic stuff, just bogged down with exam stuff right now.

Something I've been wondering for a while now. I came across the new series long before the classic series, and granted I haven't seen very much of the classics, but going by what I have seen, I'm starting to not like the Tenth Doctor more and more. I'm not slating Tennant's acting, Lord no, but 10 seems less Doctor-ly than the others. I had my doubts about 11 at first, but he's the closest to the classics the new series has got, and I love him for it now. So how does 10 compare to 11 in your opinions?

At 5/16/11 01:38 PM, joza1 wrote: Got to agree there. Question: Is 'delete' a new series thing or have they said that before?

Their catchphrase used to be "Excellent!"

He's coming back? He was crap in series 5, and he's coming back? I know I said I liked the episode, but that was purely down to Matt Smith.

Yeah. It's a disgrace.

...When I say little, I mean REALLY little.
First part of Logopolis, a few clips from Earthshock, and I've been told that that Adam guy from Dalek is comparable to him.
Yeah, that really isn't a solid basis at all is it? I should watch more classic stuff, just bogged down with exam stuff right now.

Logopolis doesn't really feature a lot of Adric, though.

So how does 10 compare to 11 in your opinions?

10 is my least favourite by a good distance.

At 5/16/11 01:54 PM, TheMaster wrote: 10 is my least favourite by a good distance.

Hmm, not my least favourite. I think my list would go like this (I've tried making a list before, but I always end up changing it so here goes).
Most to least favourite:
Smith
Baker
McCoy
Troughton
Tom Baker
Eccleston
Tennant
Davison
Hartnell
McGann

I haven't seen any Pertwee stuff yet, so it's unfair to put 3 in there anywhere just yet. 10 probably would have been after 11 if I hadn't seen the classics that I have.

At 5/16/11 02:02 PM, joza1 wrote: I haven't seen any Pertwee stuff yet, so it's unfair to put 3 in there anywhere just yet. 10 probably would have been after 11 if I hadn't seen the classics that I have.

McCoy
Colin Baker
McGann
Troughton
Tom Baker
Pertwee
Smith
Hartnell
Davison
Eccleston
Tennant

Nice to see some appreciation for Colin Baker, though. All his TV stories might be shit, but he's more than made up for it in Big Finish.

At 5/16/11 02:07 PM, TheMaster wrote: Nice to see some appreciation for Colin Baker, though. All his TV stories might be shit, but he's more than made up for it in Big Finish.

His stories themselves are bad, as in the plot, and Peri and Mel don't do much for me either. But Colin Baker himself is just awesome. Considering the BBC was about to cancel the show, he really did his best with Trial of a Time Lord. Give that to any other Doctor and it wouldn't have been nearly as good.

Interesting to see that we got the new series Doctors in the same order, considering how people expected Matt Smith to fail completely (me included, boy was I wrong). Oh, and I never expected McCoy to be your favourite, that was a surprise. I was expecting Tom Baker or Jon Pertwee for some reason.

You want controversial? I'll give you controversial.

Tennant was the best Doctor because of the quality of the writing during his tenure and his amazing acting ability, also because he's handsome
Moffat is a shitty writer because his stories are too hard to follow
The Slitheen and Abzorballof are the best villains of the new series because they're just so funny and random
The Weeping Angels are terrible and not scary at all
Best episode of the new series? It's hard to decide between Fear Her and Love & Monsters
Best episode of the classic series? None, they all have really bad effects and they were before David Tennant so they don't count
Russell T Davies is a genius because his writing is so good. His stories really have you on the edge of your seat, constantly wondering how they're going to end. He writes really good characters and dialogue, and he really cares about the viewer; he names all his characters "Smith" or "Jones" because it's easy to remember. Also, he turned a kid's show that was passed it's sell-by date in the 80s into a modern masterpiece of drama, except when Moffat ruins it with his terrible plots and characters
The only good part of Moffat's episodes is River Song; she's just so edgy, badass and epic FTW!!!! XD
Moffat's worst episode is easily Time Crash. Who wants to see an old, ugly has-been next to my David?

At 5/16/11 02:29 PM, joza1 wrote: Oh, and I never expected McCoy to be your favourite, that was a surprise. I was expecting Tom Baker or Jon Pertwee for some reason.

He's got way more to him than any other Doctor. Has just enough of the wacky stuff with the spoons and such, but is clearly the darkest Doctor, and is more mysterious and alien than any of the others.

He seems ACTUALLY alien, too, not like how people describe Smith as seeming alien because he licks things. McCoy often seems to have no empathy or to be operating on a complete other level to those around him. He does the right thing out of a universal sense of right and wrong, he's rarely as involved with individuals as the other Doctors are, and this makes his relationship with Ace a lot more interesting than any other Doctor/Companion pairings. While not so apparent in the series, it often seems in the New Adventures that she's way out of her depth, with The Doctor often treating her more as a pawn in his game of chess than a friend or equal.

But yeah, he's my favourite.

Regarding Baker and Pertwee, Baker has some great serials, but a lot of fluff too, and Pertwee has the second best run of the show (seasons 8-10, second only to 25-56) but I don't particularly like his Doctor, just his stories.

At 5/16/11 02:59 PM, TheMaster wrote: But yeah, he's my favourite.

Hmm. I can only conclude that I need to watch more classics. I feel drawn more towards the new series, purely because I grew up with it (You know how 10 says the word 'well' with that odd emphasis and the head tilt? I started doing that when I was 10 years old, and now at 15 I still do it). I was 9 when the new series started, and seeing this amazing guy zipping around the universe generally being awesome and saving people left right and centre gave me the idea of what the Doctor should be. Maybe this goes against the origins of Doctor Who, but I much prefer the new series focus on the characters than the classics focus on the sci-fi.

I have to say, it's pretty good to be able to discuss this stuff without it just being 'HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE TURN LEFT I HATE YOU.'

At 5/16/11 03:17 PM, joza1 wrote: Hmm. I can only conclude that I need to watch more classics. I feel drawn more towards the new series, purely because I grew up with it (You know how 10 says the word 'well' with that odd emphasis and the head tilt? I started doing that when I was 10 years old, and now at 15 I still do it). I was 9 when the new series started, and seeing this amazing guy zipping around the universe generally being awesome and saving people left right and centre gave me the idea of what the Doctor should be.

See, I started watching regularly with series 2 of the revival, having seen bits of series 1, but as I was getting into it UKTV was airing Jon Pertwee's run with a complete serial every day (granted, this was at like 2AM, but I just recorded them), so despite only starting watching every week around about School Reunion, by the time you were getting to the end of series 2 I'd seen most of seasons 7-11, and a good bit of 12 and 13 too (they showed those two Baker seasons, but then looped back to the start of Pertwee's run again), so I really got into the classic and new series at the exact same time, but was seeing a LOT more classic than new (5 full serials vs 1 episode per week, and I think Pertwee's stuff really shaped my idea of what Who should be.

Maybe this goes against the origins of Doctor Who, but I much prefer the new series focus on the characters than the classics focus on the sci-fi.

See, I don't think the focus on the characters is done particularly well. Character driven sci-fi does work, look at something like Firefly, but in Doctor Who it never really has.

To me, Doctor Who should have most in common with the likes of Quatermass and Blake's 7. As it stands, it has more in common with the likes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, I do love the new series and it's some of the best stuff on TV, it's just not really the way I'd like the show to go.

Still, the new format and direction are so hugely popular they're not likely to change any time soon, so whatever.

At 5/16/11 03:51 PM, TheMaster wrote: See, I started watching regularly with series 2 of the revival, having seen bits of series 1, but as I was getting into it UKTV was airing Jon Pertwee's run with a complete serial every day (granted, this was at like 2AM, but I just recorded them), so despite only starting watching every week around about School Reunion, by the time you were getting to the end of series 2 I'd seen most of seasons 7-11, and a good bit of 12 and 13 too.

Story time.
After series 1, all I had seen of the classics was about five minutes of Green Death (which I came across completely by accident, the guide just said Doctor Who), after which I promptly declared 'BORED' and switched over. I went into my teens with new series Doctor Who being one of my biggest influences. I was watching regularly 2005-08.

After Journey's End, I heard that Tennant was leaving. My first thought was 'screw this, I'm not watching it now.' Some time after that, I heard that some guy called Matt Smith was taking over and I just thought 'whatever, he won't be any good, I'm not watching.' So 2009-10 I have my Who hiatus (I must have missed the fact that 2009 was the year of the Tenth Doctor specials).

For some reason, I suddenly realise in February 2011 'Hey, I never gave this Matt Smith guy a chance, let's give him one episode.' So I watched Eleventh Hour. Then Beast Below. Then Victory, and so on. I got completely hooked back on Doctor Who (more to the point the Eleventh Doctor), and here I am now. :D

See, I don't think the focus on the characters is done particularly well.

The RTD era, I agree with you. The only companion I liked was Martha, and she wasn't even that great. I didn't like how his finales revolved around the companion even though before the Doctor picked them up they had nothing to do with anything (Doomsday and Journeys End stick out immediately).

The Moffat episodes/era does it better, i.e Girl in the Fireplace and Library/Forest. So far, my problem with RTD has been sorted because, even if it is entirely coincidental with the cracks and such, Amy is important to the finale for a legitimate reason other than simply being 'mates with the Doctor.'

I'm really starting to see the appeal of the classics now, how it's less the characters and more the story.

At 5/16/11 04:30 PM, joza1 wrote: After series 1, all I had seen of the classics was about five minutes of Green Death (which I came across completely by accident, the guide just said Doctor Who), after which I promptly declared 'BORED' and switched over. I went into my teens with new series Doctor Who being one of my biggest influences. I was watching regularly 2005-08.

To be fair, The Green Death isn't the greatest serial ever. Jo deserved a better send off.

After Journey's End, I heard that Tennant was leaving. My first thought was 'screw this, I'm not watching it now.' Some time after that, I heard that some guy called Matt Smith was taking over and I just thought 'whatever, he won't be any good, I'm not watching.' So 2009-10 I have my Who hiatus (I must have missed the fact that 2009 was the year of the Tenth Doctor specials).

A very common reaction, loads of people where only in it for Tennant. I never really liked him so was counting down the days until he was gone, but was still very disappointed when Smith was cast. Moffat had promised an older actor, and Patterson Joseph (who I really like) was bookie's favourite to get the job, so when this unknown guy with shite hair who looks younger than me was announced, I wasn't amused.

For some reason, I suddenly realise in February 2011 'Hey, I never gave this Matt Smith guy a chance, let's give him one episode.' So I watched Eleventh Hour. Then Beast Below. Then Victory, and so on. I got completely hooked back on Doctor Who (more to the point the Eleventh Doctor), and here I am now. :D

I was very wary about Matt Smith, especially with him being so young and that leaked soundbite from Victory of the Daleks ("I AM THE DOCTOR AND YOU ARE THE DALEKS") which sounded horrific taken out of context (when it leaked it was just the raw audio, no editing, no video, maybe not even the final take used, and it sounded so bad), but was completely sold after The Eleventh Hour.

The RTD era, I agree with you. The only companion I liked was Martha, and she wasn't even that great. I didn't like how his finales revolved around the companion even though before the Doctor picked them up they had nothing to do with anything (Doomsday and Journeys End stick out immediately).

Martha was just bland as fuck. Only the best because she just didn't add anything to the show, the others actively made it worse.

The Moffat episodes/era does it better, i.e Girl in the Fireplace and Library/Forest. So far, my problem with RTD has been sorted because, even if it is entirely coincidental with the cracks and such, Amy is important to the finale for a legitimate reason other than simply being 'mates with the Doctor.'

Amy is starting to grate on me. You can tell Moffat loves her as much as RTD loved Rose, and I just hope he can control himself and not do anything stupid. You've got to find that sweet spot somewhere in between hopeless damsel in distress and can-do-no-wrong Mary Sue, tip over either way and the character becomes irritating.

I'm really starting to see the appeal of the classics now, how it's less the characters and more the story.

Honestly, some of the best balance between the two is in original Big Finish stuff (as in, when they're using The Doctor + original characters, not The Doctor + on screen companions), since they're not constrained by the fact that the stories are supposed to be set between two on screen serials and thus the characters can't develop at all or it'd contradict the show.

Best example would be the first few Eighth Doctor monthly releases (not New Eighth Doctor Adventures, that's different). If you want to check it out, it's the ones between Storm Warning and Zagreus. Strong individual stories, story arc in the style of the new show (little hints and bits of plot throughout, but each story is mostly self contained) building up to an incredible finale featuring the Time Lords, Romana and Rassilon.

The Sixth Doctor + Evelyn Smythe and the Seventh Doctor + Ace (not Seventh + Ace + Bernice, they're set in between New Adventures so have same problems as ones set in between TV serials do) are also good.

At 5/16/11 04:53 PM, TheMaster wrote: A very common reaction, loads of people where only in it for Tennant. I never really liked him so was counting down the days until he was gone, but was still very disappointed when Smith was cast. Moffat had promised an older actor, and Patterson Joseph (who I really like) was bookie's favourite to get the job, so when this unknown guy with shite hair who looks younger than me was announced, I wasn't amused.

Shite hair? I love his hair. :3
Patterson Joseph? Rodrick in Bad Wolf? (Yes, I had to wiki that one xD). You know, I could see him as the Doctor. Wasn't there a Pertwee mentioned as well?

was completely sold after The Eleventh Hour.

What got me was the fact that after a year of Eccleston, it took me about 4-5 episodes to warm to Tennant. After three years of Tennant, followed by two years of Matt-Smith-is-a-jerk, it only took one episode for him to convince me that he would be amazing. And now he's my favourite. :D

Amy is starting to grate on me. You can tell Moffat loves her as much as RTD loved Rose, and I just hope he can control himself and not do anything stupid. You've got to find that sweet spot somewhere in between hopeless damsel in distress and can-do-no-wrong Mary Sue, tip over either way and the character becomes irritating.

I see any of the companions get captured, and I just think 'A tenner says the Doctor comes bursting in and saves them.' And that bit at the end of Beast Below when she completely goes against the Doctor and he still lets her stay. Hey, you kicked Adam out! Not to say I don't like her, I'm just more partial to Rory.

The Sixth Doctor + Evelyn Smythe and the Seventh Doctor + Ace (not Seventh + Ace + Bernice, they're set in between New Adventures so have same problems as ones set in between TV serials do) are also good.

Anywhere I can listen to these online? I've been recommended a few more as well as these ones, and I really want to listen to them.