At 11/22/04 10:57 PM, Joic wrote: yes for some people, what if he/she is a junk

I assume you mean a drunk. If a person has a problem with drinking they can go to a AAA sesion. Or some other intervention. Alcohol can be over come.

if he/she was raped...would it be cowarldly then?

Thats a terrible thing to happen to someone. However with prayer and council, from hte church and from a doctor, a person can get passed it. Slowly, but they will get passed it.

Do you think they care there parent or whoever will miss them?NO!

I dont think anyone can be that heartless. They are suffering. thats true, but it wont be anything compared to hte suffering their family members are going to go through when they find out their loved one has killed themselves

If someone been trough some fucked up shit like mayor drug adiction or rape and they are so beaten up by it that they want to die...well then I don't think it's cowardly.

God will never put a person into a situation in which there is no way out. He will always make sure that you have an "escape plan". He never leaves a person with no opitions.

At 11/23/04 10:07 AM, DivineCrusader wrote: I assume you mean a drunk. If a person has a problem with drinking they can go to a AAA sesion. Or some other intervention. Alcohol can be over come.

No I mean Junk ans in junkie

Thats a terrible thing to happen to someone. However with prayer and council, from hte church and from a doctor, a person can get passed it. Slowly, but they will get passed it.

depends, there are some that never get over it.

I dont think anyone can be that heartless. They are suffering. thats true, but it wont be anything compared to hte suffering their family members are going to go through when they find out their loved one has killed themselves

You'd be supriced how heartless people can be and did you know that 9 out of 10 funerals end up in laughter, mostly people don't even talk about the one that died.

God will never put a person into a situation in which there is no way out. He will always make sure that you have an "escape plan". He never leaves a person with no opitions.

I wouldn't hang on to that statement if I was you.

Here we go. I found a sermon on sucuide. Maybe this will put this argument to rest

Today, we want to see what impact suicide has upon our eternity. Today, we want to answer the question what happens to the person who commits suicide. Can that person still go to heaven or is suicide their ticket to hell? I have heard Christians line up on both sides when it comes to what happens to a person who commits suicide so we want to see what the Bible has to say.

1. Samson, who committed suicide, is listed in the heroes of faith proofing that suicide in itself does not disqualify a person from eternity with God.

Judges 16:26-30 Samson said to the servant, who held his hand, put me where I can feel the pillars…

Hebrews 11:32-33 and what more shall I say...and gained what was promised…

A. If Samson was living today; he would be referred to as something similar to a suicide bomber. A suicide bomber is called that because he takes his life but also takes others with him.

B. Samson, the Bible says, killed more men when he died than the whole time he was alive and yet although he took his own life he is listed in the heroes of faith and it says he gained what was promised.

C. So Samson shows us that suicide does not disqualify a person from going to heaven.

2. Saul is an example of a person who has committed suicide and probably entered eternal damnation.

1 Samuel 31:4- 5 Saul said to the armor-bearer...

1 Samuel 28:16-17- Samuel said, why you consult me now that the Lord has turn away from you…

A. Saul kills himself but his relationship with God is not right. He probably enters eternal damnation.

B. So we have two people who both commit suicide but end up in different places in eternity. How do we explain that?

C. Judas, the Bible says in John 17:12 is set for destruction. He committed suicide and Jesus own words were that he was set for destruction.

3. Suicide is sin.

Deut. 32:39- See now that I myself am He There is no god besides me, I put to death and I bring to life.

A. If God is responsible for life and death, then suicide has to be sin because we are attempting to act like God.

B. When a person commits suicide they are taking the place of God.

4. All suicide is unconfessed sin but it is no different than any other unconfessed sin.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

I John 1 [8] if we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

A. The truth is that we all sin. The truth is that we don’t confess every sin we commit. But we don’t believe that an unconfessed sin is going to keep us out of heaven. What we believe that unconfessed sins we will suffer loss for at the Judgment Seat of Christ. So why single out suicide as the unconfessed sin that is different.

5. Jesus own words says that suicide is forgivable.

Matt 12:31-And so I tell you every sin and…

A. Jesus says every sin is forgivable. Suicide is a sin and therefore it is forgivable. And Christ forgave sin where? At the cross.

6. The Bible clearly tells us that no form of death will keep us from God.

Romans 8:38-39 for I am convinced that neither death nor life…will be able to separate us from the love of God.

A. Suicide is a form of death and the Bible
tells us it will not keep us from God.

7. Each person’s eternity is determined by relationship and not some act.

Ephesians 2:8- For it is by grace that you are saved…

Conclusion:

My eternity is set by my relationship with God. Suicide does not affect relationship and therefore has no effect on my destination but it does have an effect upon my judgment.

Go with God

At 11/22/04 01:18 AM, CapnJack wrote: What is this you are talking about? A supernatural separation of the soul? Sometimes I feel like I'm two people in one, but are you trying to tell me that part of someone - part of their spirit - can go to hell, while another part goes to Heaven? An incomplete angel? Explain please.

What I am trying to say is that since people's souls can contain both good and evil at the same time, and since Purgatory is where the evil that may exist in someone's soul is burned away and removed, I believe that there is a possiblity that all of the evil that is removed from someone's soul just gets sent to Hell.

Either that, or the evil is just plain removed from existence.

so let me get somthin strait we wont go to hell unless were pure evil? we just go to purgatory

At 11/23/04 09:24 AM, corupthamster1 wrote: ok think for a minete youve been raped you have a major drug adiction you cant afford a house you havnt eaten in 5 days wouldnt you rather die then let yourself die painfully. i know that if i was in that situation i wouldnt think twice aboute blowing my brains out.

The chances are I'd be dead already if the rape was brutal, and I'm on drugs and starving to death...jeez... or if I could afford a gun, I could afford the freaking money to eat!

At 11/23/04 07:13 PM, corupthamster1 wrote: so let me get somthin strait we wont go to hell unless were pure evil? we just go to purgatory

I believe that only the evil part of someone goes to Hell.

At 11/24/04 07:00 PM, Paladin_X wrote: I believe that only the evil part of someone goes to Hell.

You think that at death a person's soul is seprated into two parts? A good side and a bad side, and that each go to their designated eterinity?

At 11/24/04 07:22 PM, DivineCrusader wrote:

At 11/24/04 07:00 PM, Paladin_X wrote: I believe that only the evil part of someone goes to Hell.

You think that at death a person's soul is seprated into two parts? A good side and a bad side, and that each go to their designated eterinity?

That is what I believe happens in Purgatory. In Purgatory all of the evil in a person's soul is burned away, leaving that person's soul pure enough to enter Heaven.

At 11/24/04 07:22 PM, DivineCrusader wrote:

At 11/24/04 07:00 PM, Paladin_X wrote: I believe that only the evil part of someone goes to Hell.

You think that at death a person's soul is seprated into two parts? A good side and a bad side, and that each go to their designated eterinity?

It would make more sense to me that we have to become pure before entering heaven, by changing our evil ways rather than separating from them. The only reason we would separate is if there has to be a certain amount of evil to keep a balance, so evil cannot really be destroyed, only isolated. It's too strange to think of having alternate versions of myself, one pure and one evil, because I don't think either of them would really be me... Hmm... I think this probably has to do more with philosophy than religion...

At 11/24/04 09:31 PM, CapnJack wrote: It would make more sense to me.

I dont belive that. I think that when you die you stand before God. He lists all of your sins and all of you goodness. He'll decide if you get in or if you burn. And if He lets you in, all your badness ceses to exist. Thats God will make you pure and holy by His will. I dont think there is a middle ground.

At 11/24/04 09:39 PM, DivineCrusader wrote:

At 11/24/04 09:31 PM, CapnJack wrote: It would make more sense to me.

I dont belive that. I think that when you die you stand before God. He lists all of your sins and all of you goodness. He'll decide if you get in or if you burn. And if He lets you in, all your badness ceses to exist. Thats God will make you pure and holy by His will. I dont think there is a middle ground.

hell that'll be a loooooooong list with sins then....not too much goodness though...oooh baby I'm heading to hell...I always wondered what marshmallows tasted like when backed ind he fires of hell.

At 11/24/04 09:45 PM, Joic wrote: hell that'll be a loooooooong list with sins then....not too much goodness though...oooh baby I'm heading to hell...I always wondered what marshmallows tasted like when backed ind he fires of hell.

Hey man, it dont matter how many sins you have. The only one that is non-forgivable is not accepting Jesus. Anything else, anything can be forgiven.

At 11/24/04 09:48 PM, DivineCrusader wrote:

At 11/24/04 09:45 PM, Joic wrote: hell that'll be a loooooooong list with sins then....not too much goodness though...oooh baby I'm heading to hell...I always wondered what marshmallows tasted like when backed ind he fires of hell.

Hey man, it dont matter how many sins you have. The only one that is non-forgivable is not accepting Jesus. Anything else, anything can be forgiven.

This made me laugh(no offence), you do know about the balance between Good and Evil right?See there's no way Jesus can defeat Lucifer cause if he does the balance is broken and Chaos overrules, meaning that evrything in existance will be gone...cause without evil...who can tell what good is?

At 11/24/04 09:53 PM, Joic wrote: This made me laugh(no offence), you do know about the balance between Good and Evil right?See there's no way Jesus can defeat Lucifer cause if he does the balance is broken and Chaos overrules, meaning that evrything in existance will be gone...cause without evil...who can tell what good is?

If Lucifer hadnt rebelled against God then, yes, there would be no evil. But as there would be no evil, there would be no need to perseve badness. There would be only good, so thats how everything would be measured.

If Satan hadnt tempted Eve in the Garden to eat the fruit from the tree of knowlage then we would be living in a state of pure bliss.

At 11/24/04 10:37 PM, DivineCrusader wrote:

At 11/24/04 09:53 PM, Joic wrote: This made me laugh(no offence), you do know about the balance between Good and Evil right?See there's no way Jesus can defeat Lucifer cause if he does the balance is broken and Chaos overrules, meaning that evrything in existance will be gone...cause without evil...who can tell what good is?

If Lucifer hadnt rebelled against God then, yes, there would be no evil. But as there would be no evil, there would be no need to perseve badness. There would be only good, so thats how everything would be measured.

If Satan hadnt tempted Eve in the Garden to eat the fruit from the tree of knowlage then we would be living in a state of pure bliss.

how can there be godd without evil...I mean like isn't that lik ying without yang?There's no balance, there can be no evil without good and no good without evil, evrything has a balance in it.

At 11/24/04 10:49 PM, Joic wrote: how can there be godd without evil...I mean like isn't that lik ying without yang?There's no balance, there can be no evil without good and no good without evil, evrything has a balance in it.

If there was no evil and only good it wouldnt be called good. It would be called life. We wouldnt do something nice, or kind and call it goodness, we'd do it because it would be our nature. Satan has created evil. And because of that, he has given what God intended as a natural part of mankind a name: Goodness.

If there was no evil and only good it wouldnt be called good. It would be called life. We wouldnt do something nice, or kind and call it goodness, we'd do it because it would be our nature. Satan has created evil. And because of that, he has given what God intended as a natural part of mankind a name: Goodness.

i agree.i think if lucifer wasnt around the entire world would be awesome and we wouldnt relize it but everything would be good but its to late now because we already aknowledge evil.

At 11/25/04 11:26 AM, corupthamster1 wrote: i agree.i think if lucifer wasnt around the entire world would be awesome and we wouldnt relize it

Your close to what I belive, but still a little off. I think the world would be great, but we would know it. What we wouldnt know is evil or badness. Everything would be bliss, and we would know it.

When Adam and Eve were living in the garden there was no evil. But they knew that they were living in a paridise. I think it would be like that.

At 11/25/04 05:45 PM, DivineCrusader wrote: Your close to what I belive, but still a little off. I think the world would be great, but we would know it. What we wouldnt know is evil or badness. Everything would be bliss, and we would know it.

When Adam and Eve were living in the garden there was no evil. But they knew that they were living in a paridise. I think it would be like that.

joy wouldnt be so pleasnt without pain to reconize it, like when we go to heaven, we would enjoy it alot cuz we been threw hell on earth, in most cases i think

At 11/24/04 09:39 PM, DivineCrusader wrote: I dont belive that. I think that when you die you stand before God. He lists all of your sins and all of you goodness. He'll decide if you get in or if you burn. And if He lets you in, all your badness ceses to exist. Thats God will make you pure and holy by His will. I dont think there is a middle ground.

I didn't say you can enter by being somewhat good or bad, I just said it makes more sense that you would have to become pure, get rid of your sins, before entering Heaven, which in a way is similar to how you said God gets rid of your sins. And if He were just to change us from normal to absolutely good, it would be taking away our free will. That's why I think we probably need to purify ourselves and become worthy of entering Heaven, and that's what Purgatory is for (if it exists...)

At 11/24/04 10:37 PM, DivineCrusader wrote: If Satan hadnt tempted Eve in the Garden to eat the fruit from the tree of knowlage then we would be living in a state of pure bliss.

I have a doubt that people as naive as adam and eve could have been living "good". They were just really simple, which is why they betrayed God. Naivity is something warned against in the Proverbs, and so I don't think thatthings would be perfect, God would have just treated them like animals, because animals kill but it's not sin because they're too simple to know it. Besides I don't really believe in the story of Adam and Eve as a historical fact, it seems much more metaphoric.

So, I've been thinking and trying to understand how God could send people who He created original and unique, knowing there would be fights, arguments and even wars? Knowing not everyone would follow His words... Are we a failed experiment or just a part of God that's trying to find the right path through life? Anyway, i'm too tired to think about this tonight.

At 11/25/04 10:29 PM, Tal-con wrote: Divine Crusader, I come into the NG Church once in a while and i admire your faith in God, and i was wondering, are there any requirements for me to become a preacher as well?

Yay Tal-con! Join, you were one of the first people I met on NG BBS. you can be a preacher if you start posting sermons (and preferably) become more active). Who are the preacher's in this forum anyway?? :S Do I count as one yet?

I know I dont post often but I have been working on something for here that I thought might be of use . However I may be leaveing this Church forever If I dont get an explanation from Divine Crusader about something he said in the general forum. He said and I quote:"I hate Italians" Now DC I am 100% Italian and took great offence to this. Now if this is how you truely feel I will not be back here but If you care to explain I will listen.

Tiger

At 11/26/04 12:53 AM, Chrome- wrote: ALLAHU AKBAR!

Have I spread the word?

LOL, are you Arabic?

At 11/25/04 10:29 PM, Tal-con wrote: Divine Crusader, I come into the NG Church once in a while and i admire your faith in God, and i was wondering, are there any requirements for me to become a preacher as well?

Follow four rules
1. Post a sermon at least once a week
2. Be prepaired to answer all questions anyone has on it
3. Answer all questions proposed by someone in the club (well not all, but at least all you see)
4. Be a regualr member
Thats it, I would like to have another Preacher

So, I've been thinking and trying to understand how God could send people who He created original and unique, knowing there would be fights, arguments and even wars? Knowing not everyone would follow His words... Are we a failed experiment or just a part of God that's trying to find the right path through life?

A person who has no free will is nothing more than a slave or a robot. God didnt want that, so he gave us free will. He knew that there would be wars, and that many would die for their beliefs. However, he knew that we had to make our own decisions. Think of a parent, eventually they have to let their children "leave the nest" so they can have their own lives. It may not seem it, but if you think hard you'll realize that the gift of free will is one of the best gifts the Almighty graced us with.

Who are the preacher's in this forum anyway?? Do I count as one yet?

Heck yeah, you are one. You do a great job with your sermons. Other than you, I am the only preacher.

However I may be leaveing this Church forever If I dont get an explanation from Divine Crusader about something he said in the general forum. He said and I quote:"I hate Italians" Now DC I am 100% Italian and took great offence to this. Now if this is how you truely feel I will not be back here but If you care to explain I will listen.

That was my attempt at being funny, I in no way, shape, or form was picking on Italians. They question was if they wanted to get raped by an old Italian man. I was just taking that and tring to be funny. If they had said mexicans or french I would have said "I hate ______". I truly apologize that what I said 'cause offence to you.

ALLAHU AKBAR!

Uhhhhhhhh???

Lol, churches are bad enough but now one on a webpage..
Listen to me all you religious fags.
There is no god, no Jesus (well perhaps the person excisted but he never accualy made miracles), no Allah, no freakin' Santa Klaus.
It was all made up by kings and emperors to keep the working peasent on a leash, so that they don't do bad things and work, just to go to a (non excisting heaven). While the king sits on his fat ass laughing and looking how dumb people can be. Plus all those religious stories were just made up for people to give anwsers for unknown things, but now in this civil world we have the anwsers those unknown things.. So shut the fuck up with your stories...

At 11/27/04 05:54 AM, MetalChicken wrote: Lol, churches are bad enough but now one on a webpage..

I know beacuse if there are religious threads, you'll have to like....not come in. Thats alot of work

Listen to me all you religious fags.

Homosexual put downs? Tut tut tut, those are against the rules

It was all made up by kings and emperors to keep the working peasent on a leash, so that they don't do bad things and work, just to go to a (non excisting heaven). While the king sits on his fat ass laughing and looking how dumb people can be.

Of course there will be people who are corrupted and will abuse the Word of Christ. However, it is not made nor is it just for the leaders to use. It is a truth.

Plus all those religious stories were just made up for people to give anwsers for unknown things, but now in this civil world we have the anwsers those unknown things..

Some of those stories were indeed just mediphores, like some of the stories that Christ told to give lessions. But all, weather a storie or not, is true. Also, you think that people without religion are civil? Most arnt.

So shut the fuck up with your stories...

Case in point

you now wat you dont have to believe in god but to you have to harrase christians. and jesus did those mericles if u dont beliave then ure goin to hell. ps:soon i plan to do my first sermon here i havnt yet cus im new a christianity.

At 11/27/04 07:41 PM, corupthamster1 wrote: soon i plan to do my first sermon here i havnt yet cus im new a christianity.

I really look foward to hearing it. Whats it gonna be on?

Do you think its wrong to skip Church ONCE or twice and go to a football game instead???