At 11/13/04 10:57 AM, DivineCrusader wrote: See man, its all about the praying. It always makes mee feel great. Its like a weight is lifted off my shoulders. Does it feel the same for you?

I have trouble praying often, usually because I'm too tired or too lazy... but when I do things make so much more sense to me and I feel a lot safer/happier. Praying can be relieving, so yes, I guess in a sense it does feel like a weight is lifted off my shoulders.

I pray for guidence for God. I ask Him to help me live as good a life as I can. And though I am riddled with sin, I ask him to help me obtain holiness in His eyes.

Amen.

At 11/12/04 10:18 PM, BinjinPurj wrote: What do you pray for? For people to get healthy? For you to win the lottery? For your neighbors dog to shut up so you can sleep?

I pray for guidance, to become the person that God wants me to be, and I often pray for help in becoming a better person overall. I usually make sure to pray for others, but since I know my prayers alone won't change their lives, I pray that more people will get closer to God and understand Him better. When I pray to Mother Mary, I pray that I will learn to pray properly and for the right things.

Do you have faith when you pray?

I have faith that everything will work the way God knows best.

And to me praying is a waste of time, Christain or not. You see, God already has it planned out, so what will asking for him to change his plan do?

We're not asking Him to change His plan. I personally believe that there is an overall plan for the course of the world, but each person has seperate paths they can follow. We pray that we might be able to find our path to God, not for God to change His plan. There are many paths we can choose to take, but there are paths for everyone to bring them closer to God. He gave us free will and yes He KNOWS what will happen to the world, but I think he lets us choose our own fates.

It doesn't. Everything has already happened and God knows the future... right?

I think God understands all the possibilities, but I am not sure how a Supreme Being functions. I do not find it very likely that He can fast forward to the future and then come back, but rather, His knowledge is so great that He knows what will happen next and He can also control what will happen next. However, maybe I'm wrong, maybe God lives in the past, future and present. Hey Paladin, you think you could help with some insight on this one? It's a toughy...

So CapnJack... you've done something here that may help me prove a point. You've taken religion and made it something for YOU. You say that you belive that everyone has seperate paths, but this may not be what the Bible says. You've changed religion to help it suit you.

So how is there a right religion with everyone having their own dialect of it?

At 11/13/04 04:33 PM, BinjinPurj wrote: So CapnJack... you've done something here that may help me prove a point. You've taken religion and made it something for YOU. You say that you belive that everyone has seperate paths, but this may not be what the Bible says. You've changed religion to help it suit you.

I do not think I'm changing religion, just using my logic to fill in the blanks. The Bible doesn't say God can travel to the future, does it? I try to follow the words of the Bible, ESPECIALLY the New Testatement, since it is much more accurate than the old one and I use my reasoning to understand the answers that weren't given to us.

So how is there a right religion with everyone having their own dialect of it?

The idea of a religion is man-made. And we all know, men screw up everything. I believe in the words of the New Testament, because they make sense to me.

The Muslim books do not, because they beleive in Jesus yet they also believe in Mohammed, and Jesus said all prophets after himself were false. I do not believe in Hinduism, because they are very confused. However, I can relate to their basic understanding of a Supreme Being that we are all part of, and this Being is part of everything. I do not believe in Judaism, because it's like innaccurate or out-of-date version of Christianity, no offence to Jews, but I know Jesus existed and if He wasn't the Son of God, I don't believe in anything.

I do not necessarily believe in an ultimate religion, and I honestly do not know if I'm making much sense, but I do believe in this:

- We all have a desire to find the Creator, and just like art, every religion is a different interpretation of the ultimate force behind our creation, the energy that gives us life and the father that offers us hope.
- Jesus was, is and will always be real
- The Universe is too complex to come from nothing. Even an atom is.
- There must be a purpose. I cannot be here in vain. If I am, then there may not be a point of me being here at all.

At 11/13/04 11:39 PM, CapnJack wrote: Good explaination

Dude, I want you to write a sermon for this club. I think you would make a great one. Think about it, ok?

At 11/13/04 11:42 PM, DivineCrusader wrote: Dude, I want you to write a sermon for this club. I think you would make a great one. Think about it, ok?

Well while we wait to see if he would like to post a sermon, I would like to post what I promised to post to try to change elkrobber's opinion of religion. Actually, this post might even be considered a sermon too.

Anyways, as I have promised here is the post, which I sincerely hope will put an end to this argument about why elkrobber dislikes religion.

First of all, since we exist we must accept that there is a higher power than ourselves that created us. Some people choose to accept our creation as a ‘scientific phenomena’ (the big bang) of sorts, while many other people accept our creation as the work of a divine higher being (God).

Both sides of the argument would at first glance, appear to have major evidence that would disprove the other side of the argument.

In reality however, the ‘scientific phenomena’ side of the argument can easily be proved wrong by a simple fact: The big bang could not have happened because in order for anything like that to happen there would first need to be matter that existed prior to ‘the big bang’ in order for it to happen. Many people who believe in the big bang also believe that whatever existed before ‘the big bang’ is still a mystery.

However, many (if not most) people who believe in God know that that is not a mystery at all. They believe that what existed before “the big bang” was God. Furthermore, many of these people believe that ‘the big bang’ happened, only it happened this way: “God spoke and BANG! It happened.”

Many of the people who choose to believe in ‘the big bang’ find the religious belief to be just as easy to prove false. That is because they can simply ask, “well if God exists, then what created God?”

I will now attempt to explain my belief in how God came to be:

If there existed nothing at all, then that nothingness would in itself be ‘something’. It would be from this “something” that everything was created. This “something” would be what determines how everything works, looks, acts, smells, ect. That would make this “something” all-powerful and all knowing. I believe that this “something” is ‘God’.

At 11/14/04 03:37 PM, Paladin_X wrote: If there existed nothing at all, then that nothingness would in itself be ‘something’. It would be from this “something” that everything was created. This “something” would be what determines how everything works, looks, acts, smells, ect. That would make this “something” all-powerful and all knowing. I believe that this “something” is ‘God’.

That over there is some really deep stuff man. It would be cool to have you in the philosopher's forum, except it's boring now because I'm one of the only people who postt here. Anyway, I like the way you think. I'd just like to add to that whole theory by saying that God is infinite, therefore He does not need a Creator. He always has been, is, and always will be.

At 11/13/04 11:42 PM, DivineCrusader wrote:

At 11/13/04 11:39 PM, CapnJack wrote: Good explaination

Dude, I want you to write a sermon for this club. I think you would make a great one. Think about it, ok?

I'm honoured, really. If my internet wasn't down a few hours ago I would have posted something sooner. Anyway, I started writing a sermon but I never got a chance to finish it, so I should be posting a sermon here soon, before 12 AM if all goes well.

My sermon has to be two posts so I hope to God that someone posts here before I post again, because I don't want to have four posts in a row.

RushJK reporting for duty. I am ready to strike down all non-christian and convert the agnostic to christianity or suffer my wrath.

ON LUSTY CRUSADERS!

*kidding* Welcome me into NG :D

At 11/14/04 11:29 PM, RushJK wrote: RushJK reporting for duty. I am ready to strike down all non-christian and convert the agnostic to christianity or suffer my wrath.

ON LUSTY CRUSADERS!

*kidding* Welcome me into NG :D

Yes James, you're here! lol, nice reference to Shakespeare. Welcome to the NG Church!

Thank you for welcoming me. Hey while i recently encountered someone who used the devils number in their nickname and didnt even know that it was i shall clarify for all of those who didnt know.

"Rev 13:18 This calls for wisdom. Whoever is intelligent can figure out the meaning of the number of the beast, because the number stands for the name of someone. Its number is 666. "

Its really hard to believe how often I see this number used by ppl who mainly play games online. oh and elementary school children who dont know better and believe its a number thats spreading around as a cool number and if you have it your cool.
I dont know if it has been brough up already bought id eventually like to bring the topic of abortion up. I want to see peoples defences. Some ppl have the womans rights defence and oh but the she is so emotionally hurt from maybe a misfortune that led to pregnancy. Or the majority of ppl who believe that abortion is wrong if your killing a human life but they dont recognize it as a human life and thats where most of the arguments come from. After some talking with people ive gotten them to the point where they cant even say themselves when the baby becomes a human life. Which is funny, not literally offcourse, its sad... very sad.
Sorry if my english is unclear right now, I am tired, its 1AM and im trying to pull an all nighter of homework. i have about 20 pages of math to go which will take me forever and some history :P

just to add something. the last quote i gave was from the Good News Bible, I dont prefer it as much cause it seems like they just made it easier to understand so heres my preferred version.
Douay-Rheims Bible
"Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six. "

Tiger is back and I am sorry to have been away for so long can some one fill me in on what I have missed. Is there any debates going on that I could help with at the moment?

Sorry To sound like a fucking asshole but how do you know GOD exists like you have to die go see GOD DEATH sreaws up and realises its not your time and sends u back. and chruch thats so fucking stupid i mean you got this idiot saying shit you dont need even if were religious i still wouldn't go to chruch.music is my religion cause you worship real people well jesus was real but GOD isn't.

Wait newgrounds church? isn't that an oxymoron?

At 11/15/04 01:27 AM, Angel_Of_Death1313 wrote: Sorry To sound like a fucking asshole but how do you know GOD exists like you have to die go see GOD DEATH sreaws up and realises its not your time and sends u back. and chruch thats so fucking stupid i mean you got this idiot saying shit you dont need even if were religious i still wouldn't go to chruch.music is my religion cause you worship real people well jesus was real but GOD isn't.

How can you say God isnt real when as you say you would have to die to prove it? I have some great evidence that he is but I will only post it if you promise to keep an open mind and actually listen to is not just BS me and say whatever.

The Seven Deadly Sins

What is a deadly sin?
Why are the Seven Deadly Sins deadly?
How are they worse than other sins?

A deadly sin is one which destroys our soul by building a spiritual barrier from God’s perfection and love. They are called deadly for exactly that reason: they kill our souls, or at least, they reduce our chances of eternal life. These sins can be overcome through strong will and dedication to the Lord; however, they are much more dangerous than a normal sin, because we easily justify them through the immense temporary satisfaction they offer us.

My goal over the next 7 Sundays leading up to the new year is to identify the sins, the specific reasons why each of them are destructive to our moral fibre, and ways to overcome the challenge of fighting the temptation of these sins. I will attempt to do this from a Christian perspective, but my intention will be to create sermons that are also acceptable to the non-Christian community, so that they will heed the warnings.

Do not be believe that if you are a non-Christian this does not apply to you. Much of what I will describe will apply and be useful to many, even if you do not believe in my God.

In conclusion to my introduction of the seven deadly sins, I encourage you all to carefully read the 7 sermons I will be posting. They may be long, but I hope they will be worthwhile.

Note: To all members of this forum, especially DivineCrusader, I apologize that I have posted this so late. I got really busy, but I’ll just pretend like I posted this on Sunday :-), Unfortunately, my actual sermon was written past 3 AM, so I apologize for the crappiness of it. From this point forward my goal is to write and post these sermons every Sunday before 12 PM.

And finally, without further ado, I present to you… Lust.

Lust

For the purpose of organization and your convenience, I will separate this topic into subsections. Hopefully, this will be a more appropriate way of conveying my messages. I also apologize because I’m writing this really late.

What is lust?

The dictionary defines lust as an unrestrained craving, usually sexual.

According to Jesus:

Matthew 5
28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Is lust the same thing as attraction?

Definitely not. Attraction is a necessary component of romantic love+, while lust is destructive in a loving relationship. Lust and love cannot coincide -- you will not objectify a person you love. Lust is purely a craving that your body feels like it needs to fulfill, on the other hand, attraction is a force that draws you toward another human being and makes you yearn for their presence. When one is fully attracted to another person, they are turned on, not only by their body but by the entire person.

+ I believe that the basic components of this sort of love are attraction and compassion. Compassion without attraction is friendship. Attraction without compassion is infatuation.

Why is lust a deadly sin?

When we act on our lusts, we are being consumed by our cravings. Eventually, one can lust so deeply that they do not even understand they are doing it, and may not even feel guilty for doing so. Lust is deadly for the very reason that it consumes us to the physical world. I believe, If we grasp to this world, we cannot move on to a world with God. If you had to walk through a door, but your hand would not let go of an immovable pole, how could you pass through the door? You can’t.

How does lust affect me?

When consumed by lust, one often feels guilt, so they hide it from their loved ones. However, in our sexually permissive society, this guilt is rarely felt or very discouraged. It may also destroy your self-esteem or your relationship with someone you dearly love. Most teenaged couples that have sex before marriage break up within a month, maybe slightly longer if they’re really in love. Why? Lust destroys our love for a person and makes us want their bodies. When me and my girlfriend started getting too physical, we noticed our relationship getting rocky. Now we’re focusing on each other instead of our physical desires.

I'd talk more about the effects, but I can't think straight so just click on the link that is coming up soon.

When am I being consumed by lust?

When you feel yourself yearning for sexual acts or another’s body and you cannot stop yourself from fulfilling this, you are being consumed by lust.

How can I overcome lust?

I’d give examples but I’m doing a really crappy job right now because I can barely think so check out this website

For your information: instances of lust in the Bible.

Proverbs 6
25 Do not lust in your heart after her beauty
or let her captivate you with her eyes,
26 for the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread,
and the adulteress preys upon your very life.

Colossians 3

5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

1 John 2
16For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world.

Last words:

I hope that this sermon helped you with a few questions you may have. Feel free to ask me questions or ask me to explain my ideas further, because I know this sermon wasn't the best. Next week I'll analyze things more deeply... hopefully you appreciated this anyway. Ugh, it's so late... I better end this.

~ May God's love bring you to salvation.

Amen

At 11/15/04 01:29 AM, CarMadeofBlock wrote: Wait newgrounds church? isn't that an oxymoron?

No, the "Church of Satan" is an oxymoron. This church is just a place to bring people back to God, or at least give them doubts about Atheism.

Hey DivineCrusader, let's write up a Mission Statement sometime :-). Just because it sounds so official.

Greetings all,
opening line - weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Anyways to my post, and also thx to Jack for his sermon.
There are many different versions of the Bible and I wanted to shed some light about them so you can further your knowledge in what your reading.
The original writing of the bible are written different languages (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic), you get the point and we obvioulsy dont have access to those. The most accurate Bible you can then read would be the vulgate, which is in latin and is directly from the original scripts. Now to bad I dont know latin cause id pick up the vulgate right away and start. There is a Bible, the Douay-Rheims Bible that bible uses the latin vulgate and is translated from that. The Douay-Rheims Bible is the most accurate of the english versions today and is the Bible that I prefer to read. Other Bibles were translated from not only 1 source but various sources which I am not able to specify at this moment. Bibles like the American Standard Version were not even translated by Christians but by just normal translators who might not even be interpreting it right(my opinions offcourse). Offcourse its all still the truth but if you read these Bibles in parralel which I have you will notice a difference, a big one at times and things might even confuse you. I would stick with the Douay-Rheims version, although it is a harder version to read, the english is more advanced than others. Hope you learned something new from this.

about the whole ihova thing

firstly im not a xianist so dont take ofence at anything i may accidently imply about your chosen religon. im not gonna try to convert you or anything.

firstly which form of xianist are you? if you dont know what it is then the world is going down hill faster than i would think. it is in short the old name for those who worship he who is now the major western deity

most americans apear to be a kind of catholic/protistant half breed which is odd to say the least but your ideas about *ihova *(*the charactor program might not work on this its suposed to read in the origonal greek lettering) seem to be oddly contridictive for example is he a vengfull god or not? if he forgives you why does he exicute your soul? when in mortal form he aparently becombs a much nicer person than when he is celestial. and what is it he realy wants? from what i can see he holds us back most of the older religons where all for the science of the day but this one seems to condem it

im not trying to be picky im just curious is all.

At 11/14/04 03:37 PM, Paladin_X wrote: Well while we wait to see if he would like to post a sermon, I would like to post what I promised to post to try to change elkrobber's opinion of religion. Actually, this post might even be considered a sermon too.

Anyways, as I have promised here is the post, which I sincerely hope will put an end to this argument about why elkrobber dislikes religion.

First of all, since we exist we must accept that there is a higher power than ourselves that created us. Some people choose to accept our creation as a ‘scientific phenomena’ (the big bang) of sorts, while many other people accept our creation as the work of a divine higher being (God).

I am willing to admit there are powers higher than us, but they are not gods, the human race as a whole have done a lot of bad... and some things on this earth have done no bad, but that does not make them our leader... but there are some things we can look up to, things that have done nothing to be part of the, problem that is the destruction on this earth, and are thus part of the solution. I speak of nuteral living things, such as animals or plants.

Both sides of the argument would at first glance, appear to have major evidence that would disprove the other side of the argument.

And there is a lot more to disprove the other side, and what, may I ask, is taught in schools as fact, rather than opinion?

In reality however, the ‘scientific phenomena’ side of the argument can easily be proved wrong by a simple fact: The big bang could not have happened because in order for anything like that to happen there would first need to be matter that existed prior to ‘the big bang’ in order for it to happen.

There may well have been somthing before, but what is beyond my limeted knowledge. I mean, fuck, i dont know what happened in the last twenty minets, so how would i know what happend 20 billion years ago?

(damn i'm an idiot)

At 11/15/04 05:50 AM, Chaos_necromancer wrote: about the whole ihova thing

I hova no idea what you're talking about! Ok, sorry, that was lame.

firstly im not a xianist so dont take ofence at anything i may accidently imply about your chosen religon. im not gonna try to convert you or anything.

I can tell you're not a Zionist. I have no clue what you're trying to say.

firstly which form of xianist are you? if you dont know what it is then the world is going down hill faster than i would think. it is in short the old name for those who worship he who is now the major western deity

Are you intoxicated? The Zionist movement is a Jewish thing. It was established to fight anti-semitism. Zion was the historic land of Israel and may also be used to refer to any religious community that is devoted to God, but at least get the facts straight. Zionism is a biased Jewish sect and it has no place in the NG Church. I have never heard of a "xianist", so I'm assuming you're talking about Zionism. Anyway, we're Christians... and you do not make any sense, which you demonstrate over here...

most americans apear to be a kind of catholic/protistant half breed which is odd to say the least but your ideas about *ihova *(*the charactor program might not work on this its suposed to read in the origonal greek lettering) seem to be oddly contridictive for example is he a vengfull god or not?

Alright, what the hell is a Catholic/Protestant half-breed? There are so many Christian denominations, most are Roman Catholic, but there are also Orthodox, Protestant, Baptist and a large about of other ones. Most people are not "half-breeds", as you so foolishly put it. And stop calling God "Jehova", I'm assuming that's what you mean because you seem to have a huge defiency in writing. Calling Him Yahweh, Jehova, or any other name is supposed to be sacred and it's also not even English, so we call him God or the Lord here. The GOD I know is not contradictive.. it is a common misconception of ignorant people who cannot interpret the Bible accuretaly that He is vengeful, yet loving. He is RIGHTEOUS, and loving, but if you deny Him, He has to deny you. Being impure, you cannot enter into His kingdom. There is no other way around this.

if he forgives you why does he exicute your soul?

Many people do not ask for forgiveness. If you forgive others and ask for His forgiveness, He gives your soul eternal life. What religion are you talking about?!?!?!?

when in mortal form he aparently becombs a much nicer person than when he is celestial. and what is it he realy wants?

He wants us to live in His kingdom, which is why, out of LOVE He sent His son, a form of the true God as a man, to give us salvation! He just wants people like you to realize His LOVE!

from what i can see he holds us back most of the older religons where all for the science of the day but this one seems to condem it

He holds us back? Christianity does not condemn science. Some forms of science cross-over the bounds of morality, whether you are Christian or not. I'm getting really fed up with your inaccurate and purely idiotic assumptions and opinions. I'm not offended, I'm annoyed!

im not trying to be picky im just curious is all.

You're not being picky, you're just getting all your facts wrong and presenting them in such a way that makes YOU lucky I even replied. Ugh, type your stuff up on Microsoft Word and stop assuming garbage and stop acting like you know things like what a "xianist" is. Jesus Christ, help me...

May God have mercy on you... and me...

At 11/11/04 10:03 PM, DivineCrusader wrote:

i did...

Can I Join the NG Church

At 11/14/04 03:37 PM, Paladin_X wrote: Converting Post

I liked that alot dude. Its very true and a real good read.

I am ready to strike down all non-christian and convert the agnostic to christianity or suffer my wrath.

Welcome to the NG Church.

At 11/15/04 12:54 AM, RushJK wrote: I dont know if it has been brough up already bought id eventually like to bring the topic of abortion up.

I used to be pro-choice. However I am no longer. Reading the Bible has convinced me that abortion is wrong. The Bible strictly condems the killing of a fetus.

Exodus 21:22 we read from the Old Testament legal code. “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”

Tiger is back and I am sorry to have been away for so long can some one fill me in on what I have missed

I was wondering if you were gonna come back. Right now we seem to have a aborition topic going on. Your thoughts?

At 11/15/04 01:27 AM, Angel_Of_Death1313 wrote:

blah blah blah

I have no idea what your trying to say. Retype that with correct grammer.

Wait newgrounds church? isn't that an oxymoron?

Were just a small oasis of christians trying to help the users of NG.

The Seven Deadly Sins

*clap clap clap*
A masterpeice. Capt, I loved that, You did a great job with that. I look foward to reading next Sundays one.

Hey DivineCrusader, let's write up a Mission Statement sometime :-). Just because it sounds so official.

Email me or post your idas. I like the idea.

There are many different versions of the Bible and I wanted to shed some light about them so you can further your knowledge in what your reading.

My personal favorite is the New International version. It uses modern language. I can understand it.

most americans apear to be a kind of catholic/protistant half breed which is odd to say the least but your ideas about

Half breed? Did you just refeir to the members of a given brance of christinary as a half breed? Learn some respect before you post here again.

is he a vengfull god or not?

He is not a vengfull God, but He is a very jelous God. He wont accept you just giving half of yourself to Him.

if he forgives you why does he exicute your soul?

His forgivness is there as long as you take it. He gives you the oppertunity all yourt life to find Him. If you dont thats your fault.

when in mortal form he aparently becombs a much nicer person than when he is celestial

Jesus is the same in celestial form as he in in the flesh. He is still the loving, caring, nicest being ever. He loves you now and will always love you. It isnt his plan that people go to Hell. He died at Calvary just so no one would have to go to Hell.

and what is it he realy wants?

No, no, no, no, no. He dosent want you to go to Hell, but he will send you there if you do not accept Him.

Can I Join the NG Church

Welcome abord

Pro-Life, Anti-Abortion, No Apologies
Genesis 1:26-1:27

I. We are created in the image of God.

A. While there are many different views about what it means to be made in God’s "image," the fact is that we reflect our Creator, and we are valuable in his eyes.
[Genesis 1:26-27; 31]

B. Life is sacred - including life in the womb.

1. Jeremiah noted that God knew him before he was born, and that he was created for a purpose.
[Jeremiah 1:5]

2. David declared that he had been knit together by God in the womb.
[Psalm 139:13-14]

3. Like Jeremiah, each person has been created for a purpose. No human being is a mistake. Like David, each person has been "fearfully and wonderfully made." Of course, this leads some to ask, "What about those people who are born with severe deformity or a handicap? Were THEY fearfully and wonderfully made?" The answer is: Yes. We live in a fallen, broken world, full of troubles as well as joys. There is a certain amount of chaos in the world, and all people are affected by it in one way or another. Life is difficult, often not fair, and in the end, "no one gets out alive." Suffering and death are inevitable, and the womb is no exception. But God has created each person, and no matter what condition he is in, each person has worth, and can be used to bring good to the world.

II. The Pro-Life movement is not merely a case of "religious fanaticism."

A. The case against abortion contains much more than just a few Bible quotations. Understanding the rational pro-life arguments is important because the abortion defenders accuse us of "shoving our religion down their throats." We should be ready and able to confront abortionists on intellectual grounds, destroy their illogical emotion-based rhetoric and provide sound reasoning to support our anti-abortion position.

B. Medical arguments against abortion:

1. At conception, the embryo is genetically distinct from the mother. This means the embryo is not just another part of the woman’s body - it is distinct and genetically unique. The embryo is a separate organism, not just another part of the mother, like a kidney or lung.

2. The growing fetus feels [his own] pain.

3. The developing child has a unique set of fingerprints. The heart begins beating 18 days after conception, brainwaves start 40-43 days after conception.

[Points 2 & 3 are further examples to show that the unborn child is distinct from the mother, not merely another one of mom’s body parts.]

4. Fetal development:

a) By 6 weeks: all vital organs are present; brain waves can be recorded.
b) By 8 weeks: baby responds to painful stimuli; can grasp objects.
c) By 10 weeks: fingerprints and footprints permanently engraved on the skin; sucks thumb.
d) By 11-12 weeks: inhales and exhales amniotic fluid; shows distinct facial characteristics.
e) By 16 weeks: fingernails and eyelashes present; high activity level (e.g., kicking). [1]

C. "If not then, when?" The abortion issue raises the question of the definition of human life.

1. A "human being" is a member of the species homo sapiens. Science can determine, without doubt, whether or not any living organism is a human being. A human being, from the moment of conception, is genetically complete.

2. The clearest and most reasonable place for human life to begin is at conception. To say human life begins at any other place is to either an emotional (and nonrational) reaction, a questionable call and/or an arbitrary decision.

D. Legal considerations: The current abortion laws (since the time of Roe v. Wade) are NOT neutral concerning the life issue. [2]

1. The Supreme Court claimed to be unable to determine when life begins, yet acted as though no life is in the womb by allowing people the "right" to destroy it.

2. The burden of proof should lie with the one who is potentially the taker of human life, and the benefit of the doubt should be with the one who desires to preserve human life. Put another way, "When in doubt, DON’T."

3. A hunter who hears rustling in the woods shouldn’t fire until he knows what’s in the bushes. The current law is based on the Supreme Court’s decision to "fire into the bushes" without knowledge of (and without concern for) what’s there.

4. The Supreme Court’s decision is contrary to the process of law. If there is not enough evidence for or against X, then X must be left alone until sufficient evidence presents itself. In the case of abortion, the Supreme Court (according to the Court’s verdict) claimed to not have enough evidence to determine whether the unborn is human life. If the Court didn’t know, they should have acted as though life is in the womb. If they were to err in their ignorance, the Court should have erred on the side of preserving human life. Furthermore, if the Court didn’t know, then the unborn should have been left alone until enough evidence presented itself to the Court.

5. Essentially, the Supreme Court’s decision amounts to this: "We don’t know whether it’s human life or not, so we’ll just act like it’s not." This is not a neutral position, nor is it a suspension of judgment on the part of the Court.

E. "But you don’t know my circumstances."

- That’s right. I don’t know your circumstances, or what would make you think of having an abortion. Maybe you’re a rape victim, maybe you’re still a child yourself. I don’t know what you’ve been through. But I know that humans are MORE than their circumstances. I know human life has great value. And God can bring forth good from any situation.

At 11/15/04 10:00 PM, DivineCrusader wrote: Pro-Life, Anti-Abortion, No Apologies

I completely agree... and that was very, very well researched! If I had the patience or energy, I'd do a bit more research myself lol. Anyway, I'd just like to add that there have been many people who lived happy and fulfilling lives by allowing their child to be born into this world. Furthermore, a woman often regrets the choice of an abortion for the rest of her life.

I can't think anymore.

God bless.

P.S. I just noticed you posted your sermon at exactly 10:00. For some reason I find this cool. Maybe that's because it's past midnight... goodnight.

At 11/16/04 12:28 AM, CapnJack wrote: I completely agree... and that was very, very well researched! If I had the patience or energy, I'd do a bit more research myself

Oh I couldnt do one like that by myself. I had help. Anyway, NEW SERMON.

(23rd Psalm): Walking Through Death’s Valley*
Psalms 23:1-23:6

A. INTRODUCTION: WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT VALLEYS?

1. Surrounded by high mountains. There are cliffs or obstacles that will keep you in shadows or the dark.

2. There are mountain barriers to keep you from reaching your goal, but a valley goes through them.

3. There are wrong paths through the mountains that end up in box canyons or a wrong trail just evaporates.

4. Only a shepherd can get sheep through dark valleys.

B. YEA, THOUGH I WALK

1. The dark valleys are my choice, the shepherd does not lead into them.

2. Adam and Eve chose death and darkness (Rom. 5:12).

3. Sheep ignorantly stray into the valley of trouble, “All we like sheep have gone astray” (Isa. 53:6).
a. They do not see danger.
b. They follow their food.
c. They are defenseless.

4. Sheep are always selfish, “And have turned to their own way” (Isa. 53:6).

C. THE VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH

1. A deep narrow valley is dark.

WHY DARKNESS SCARES US
a. We are afraid of the unknown.
b. Darkness covers the evil of evil people (John 3:19).
c. We stumble or fall.
d. We remember.
e. Darkness is Satan’s kingdom.

2. What causes shadows? A barrier to the light or a distortion to the light.

3. The original suggests it is a “valley of shadows” not a “valley of death.

WHAT SHADOWS DO TO US
1. Our active imagination scares us. “We have nothing to
fear but fear itself.”
2. Our guilty memory.
3. We imagine the worst not best.
4. Shadows make us hurt ourselves.
5. Shadows steal happiness.

4. Shadows are illusions, what we imagine is not there.

5. Shadows cannot hurt us, but they make us hurt ourselves.

6. What is the greatest shadow to scare us. Death.

7. Since shadows are caused by light, what should be our response?
a. Come to the light, “I am the light of the world” (John 8:12).
b. Walk in the light, “He that followeth Me shall not walk in darkness” (John 8:12).
c. Trust the Lord. “Shall have the light of life” (John 8:12).

8. “Death Shadows.” Don’t scare the Lord. Why? He was born with a death shadow on the manger. “He became obedient to death, even the death of the cross” (Phil. 2:8).

9. Remember, our death is only a shadow.

WHY DOES DEATH SCARE EVEN BELIEVERS?
1. We cannot see what is there.
2. We do not want physical pain.
3. We do not want to give up anything.
4. Because of sin, we have doubts.
5. We have not finished everything.

10. When the bony hand of death reaches for you, it is the hand of Jesus. “I am alive forever more and I have the keys of death” (Rev. 1:18).

D. THE WONDERFUL WORD THROUGH

1. What does the shepherd not do?
a. Lead us into the valley and leave us there.
b. Watch us from outside the valley.
c. Does not call to us from the other side.
d. The shepherd is with us through the valley to the other side.

2. Death is real to the unsaved, but a shadow to believers.

Death momentarily obscures the light when we pass through
the shadow of death, but instantly on the other side we enter
the light.

3. Our present troubles are mountains – barriers that block us.

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT MOUNTAINS

1. There is a valley through problems (John 14:6).

2. People make their problems, not God.

3. Valleys have shadows that scare us.

4. Shadows make us hurt ourselves.

5. The Lord is with us in shadows and valleys.

6. He will lead me through if I let him.

PRAYING THE 23rd PSALM

Because Thou art my Shepherd,
I commit my needs to Thee.
Provide green pastures for me to lie in,
Lead me beside still waters.
Restore my soul when I’m empty,
Lead me in right paths for Your name’s sake.
Be with me in danger when I walk,
Through the valley of the shadow of death.
Deliver me from evil,
And protect me with Your rod and staff.
Prepare a table to feed me,
So my enemies can see Your provision.
Anoint me with the oil of Your healing,
Let me drink from the full cup of Your provision.
Surely goodness and mercy will always follow me,
And I will live with You forever.

If you have never really accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, would you do it right now? Do not delay or put it off. If you would like to receive Christ by faith, pray this simple prayer in your heart:

Dear Lord, I acknowledge that I am a sinner. I believe Jesus died for my sins on the cross, and rose again the third day. I repent of my sins. By faith I receive the Lord Jesus as my Savior. You promised to save me, and I believe You, because You are God and cannot lie. I believe right now that the Lord Jesus is my personal Savior, and that all my sins are forgiven through His precious blood. I thank You, dear Lord, for saving me. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

If you prayed that prayer, God heard you and saved you. I personally want to welcome you to the family of God. Please contact me at etowns@elmertowns.com and tell us about your salvation experience so that we can rejoice with you.

IT doesn't say anything about wax apples in the bible? Or am i mistaken. I think god would condem the consumption of this faux fruit. probably would make you throw it right up, or is that punishment for earlier that night.

*wink*

who am i divine

Hi, I just wanted to say I don't think I'll be posting here for a few days because I have fallen really behind in my work. I hope to catch up on a lot of posts when I come back :-P.

God Bless.