At 8/31/07 11:06 AM, tatsumaru7 wrote:

At 8/25/07 09:18 PM, vgfa287 wrote:

o and hello everyone havent been here in a long time i jst wanted to know if being able to do the splits helps you with your kicks?

and could somebody give me some pointers on doing them because i can only do it on the left side for some reason

Doing the splits woud certainly entitle a greater sense of flexibility, which any martial artist needs...but as for your kicks...flexibility isn't always necessary. In other words...no =.=, not really.

Also, as for your only being able to do them on your left side...that is likely due to your balance. Do you play basketball? If so, here is a little exercise for you. Do a lay-up like you normally would, using the same leg and the same arm that you always would use. Now use the same arm and the same form...just switch legs when you jump. I think likey that your balance will be off when you try this. In some ways, it is the same when you try to toss a kick...either in the air or on the ground. Its all about balance and how the body responds to that type of movement. Cause trust me...I am still working on kicking out with my left leg (left side)...I just can't seem to get it right >.>.

At 8/31/07 12:51 AM, Cosmos8942 wrote: I practice Huc Chung, Aikido, Jeet Kune Do, Taijiquan, Dim Mak, and finally Iaido.

As good as it is to practice a wide variety of different arts it is good to have one main focus, especially when you are first starting out. Since it seems like you just started all of these arts about 3 years ago you probably have to little of an understanding of each individual art. If I where you, I would focus on one art for the time, and as you become capable in the art, then try to learn a new one as well. In martial arts it is about quality first and quantity second.

At 8/31/07 02:34 PM, dsmking wrote:

At 8/31/07 12:51 AM, Cosmos8942 wrote: I practice Huc Chung, Aikido, Jeet Kune Do, Taijiquan, Dim Mak, and finally Iaido.

As good as it is to practice a wide variety of different arts it is good to have one main focus, especially when you are first starting out. Since it seems like you just started all of these arts about 3 years ago you probably have to little of an understanding of each individual art. If I where you, I would focus on one art for the time, and as you become capable in the art, then try to learn a new one as well. In martial arts it is about quality first and quantity second.

Mm? I hear you there...but I seem, thought not to brag, but I seem to have a talent for martial arts and I am told that I learned the basics for these quite quickly (didn't I say that I wasn't taught?...well...I wasn't, I just happened to have bumped into a master that had studied Huc Chung, Aikida, and Taijiquan...in that aspect I got lucky (though he disappeared awhile back, WHERE DID YOU GOOOOO!? >.>)though my coordination is still lacking T.T.

Ground fighting: I think that ground fighting is when a fight goes to the ground and anything goes, whereas grappling is the pure wrestling aspect of it without hitting involved. I think it's as important to know how to fight on the ground as standing up. Someone said that their instructor says it's your job as martial artists to stay standing, but if a cornerstone of your defense is relying on your ability to stay standing then you're in for a nasty surprise when someone who doesn't fight friendly like in a spar decides to knock you the fuck down and beat your ass.

A fun way to switch up a fight (if you're a confident ground fighter) is to go down on purpose and when they start to come down at you you use their momentum and gravity to bring them down hard and get on top.

Ground fighting is an entirely different world than stand up fighting. In stand up fighting you use your legs to move you around and both opponents are an equal playing field gravity-wise, but with ground fighting one person has a huge gravitational and strategic advantage and the other is severely disadvantaged by being on bottom and having to fight simply to move, let alone to get some guy who wants to do him harm off of him. Weight is a double edged sword even more so than in stand up fighting, because a fat guy can pin you real well, but he's gonna have a hard time doing a sit-up with even a skinny guy like me sitting on him.

Stand up fighting is fun, but honestly the reasons I prefer to take it to the ground are that quick, flexible skinny dudes like me have a huge advantage, you rarely have to worry about going down, and wrestling is so much more of a personal way to fight because you're manipulating your and your opponent's body in infinitely many more ways and you're not using crude hits but instead less mechanical motion implementing both strength and leverage in more pure ways.

At 8/31/07 12:51 AM, Cosmos8942 wrote: Jeet Kune Do - This is not a martial art persay....

LOL ! ...... A good JKD instructor can easily cure you of that belief. :)

As for ground fighting, mosdt people are like turtles when you get them on their backs.... namely, helpless. Fastest way to end a confrontation is to get someone on their back, and make sure they don't get up.

At 9/1/07 02:57 PM, Monocrom wrote:

At 8/31/07 12:51 AM, Cosmos8942 wrote: Jeet Kune Do - This is not a martial art persay....

LOL ! ...... A good JKD instructor can easily cure you of that belief. :)

As for ground fighting, mosdt people are like turtles when you get them on their backs.... namely, helpless. Fastest way to end a confrontation is to get someone on their back, and make sure they don't get up.

Turtles... Perfect analogy.

And JKD is indeed an art. It is the way of having no way and the path of no path. It's simpler in application than explanation.

At 8/29/07 12:13 AM, ThunderboltLegion wrote: Also I'm trying to piece together in my head a family tree if you will of all parties involved in this very complicated history. Which is why I'm happy to see Fremen around again :)

Fremen:

Could you tell me about your specific styles origins? Or even provide some links for me to look through?

Sure.

You are talking about my Shihan and where he learned and stuff like that right?

http://www.neka1.com/history.asp

Paragraphs two and three are the ones to look at. After you know he studied under Nick Cerio, it's a pretty easy history to follow, and goes straight back to James Mitose.

http://www.alandallessandrokarate.com/cu stom.html

That is a post to the actual lineage.

Sorry for double, but I also have:

http://www.alandallessandrokarate.com/

My Shihan's bio.

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Just finished Savate episode of Human Weapon. tv-links stremas them for free, Medium Quality, so I just go there now.

Savate looked really cool, and very very similar to the way one of my instructors fights (my Shihan's daughter), except dirtier.

------------------------

Also, I finally got a job at Karate and I work once a week for two classes. In the future this will probably go up and stuff like that. Being an instructor is so much different than being a student, but since there used to be teaching requirements just to get your Black Belt at my school, I eased into it. Also, having a second Degree Black belt doesn't help. All in all, being an instructor is really cool because:

1) I get paid to go to Karate, and I love being there in general
2) I teach informally anyways (mostly other black belts), so it's pretty easy
3) I get a 40% discount on all Century items, which is really useful since I now have a new heavyweight blue w/white striped ghi, which looks really cool, and it cost under $50...lol

Ok, I'm done.

I've recently moved to a new town and since I'm pretty much into martial arts I'd like to join a school. But the only martial art-school around here are of Judo, Tae Kwon-Do and Muay Thai. Which one would be the most effective? Or is it more a personal choice?

At 9/1/07 08:53 PM, Solfaen wrote: I've recently moved to a new town and since I'm pretty much into martial arts I'd like to join a school. But the only martial art-school around here are of Judo, Tae Kwon-Do and Muay Thai. Which one would be the most effective? Or is it more a personal choice?

That...mostly depends on your own bodies ability...if you are strong and have the ability to read your opponents moves then I would say Judo.

Do you already have good balance...and would like to compete...then Tae Kwon-Do would probably be a good one for you...

...If you want the most effective (depends on opinion), then I would say Muay Thai...practioners of this style are of the few that even I am fearful of...their blows are devestating and must be countered...in fact, if you want something truly effective...combine this style with Judo and I think even I will stay out of your way XD.

All in all...it depends on your characteristics...are you strong? agile? quick-witted?...the largest recommendation I can say here though is to either study up on each style on your own...or better yet, go to each facility, and if it is allowed, watch and/or talk to the master/teacher(s) that are there. Most of the time they are able to give you a better assesment of your own abilities...though sometimes they will just want you to sign up so that they have another student (if this happens...I wouldn't recommend being taught by them at all). So...I would say that in terms of effectiveness, Muay Thai would be good, and Judo being in a close second.

owwie, i just got back from a fight lol
i do pankration

At 9/1/07 08:53 PM, Solfaen wrote: I've recently moved to a new town and since I'm pretty much into martial arts I'd like to join a school. But the only martial art-school around here are of Judo, Tae Kwon-Do and Muay Thai. Which one would be the most effective? Or is it more a personal choice?

I'd say either Judo or Muay Thai. I don't know what they do in Muay Thai, but I think it's supposed to be very effective.

At 9/1/07 08:51 PM, Fremen wrote:

1) I get paid to go to Karate, and I love being there in general

But you end up being paid in shit.

2) I teach informally anyways (mostly other black belts), so it's pretty easy

And most people like that will snuff you out at first and try to act like they are better than you till you kick one of theirs asses.

3) I get a 40% discount on all Century items, which is really useful since I now have a new heavyweight blue w/white striped ghi, which looks really cool, and it cost under $50...lol

Hence you take that shit you got paid and end up losing it right away. Gotta love the system.

O and Cosmos I will eat your babies in a fight...... :p Natural talent means shit. I am one of those people who have absolutely no natural talent in the arts. In the end I find it better to start out with no natural talent than to start with it.

At 8/30/07 07:45 PM, Semi-Shinro wrote: Ju-Jitsu is a striking art and Judo is a grappling art... Grapples can be used in combat, especially when used with breaks and strikes... Just a matter of preference...

Wasn't judo created from ju-jitsu? I thought that judo was a watered down version of ju-jitsu where all that was left was the grappling and that ju-jitsu uses grappling and striking. Maybe I'm just really confused...

Last I heard of her... I'm sure she's doing well though.

Well thanks, when a veteran member like satan doesn't post for a while you kinda start to get a little worried.

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Fremen:

Thanks for the links, that's exactly what I was looking for, if you come into any information about kenpo history please feel free to post it. I don't know about anyone else but kenpo history is of great interest to me.

As far as teaching goes, well it's a good thing with a couple draw backs. I get paid, in fact all my spending money comes from teaching, I get to train for free, my instructor gets wholesale prices on everything he orders from catalogues (century, proforce, mti, ect...) and usually rounds it down for the instructors, on top of that he doesn't charge us shipping. In addition I find that teaching helps immensily with remembering and understanding techniques and katas. Draw backs, every once in a while you get stuck with some annoying little brat of a kid or some big fat smelly guy or someone who simply has no respect for you because of your rank, age (or gender for the female instructors), or for whatever reason. But mostly it's a good thing, glad you like it as well :)

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At 9/1/07 08:53 PM, Solfaen wrote: I've recently moved to a new town and since I'm pretty much into martial arts I'd like to join a school. But the only martial art-school around here are of Judo, Tae Kwon-Do and Muay Thai. Which one would be the most effective? Or is it more a personal choice?

It depends on many things. First you should visit, talk with the instructor and just ask questions. If they have an introductiory course then take full advantage, train with them for a month (or however long the trial period lasts) and if you don't like it or feel like you might get more out of another style then try it out, no harm done and you can always go back. I personally would be most inclined to take muay tai if I were forced to only take one style but if the instruction is crap then you may be better off with judo, if it's the same story there then try tae kwon do. It also depends on your body type and what you feel you may be more skilled at. Tae kwon do is the art of kicking, so if you like kicking and think you could be good at it (or at least better at it then the other options) then go for it, you can make it effective even if it isn't naturally as effective as muay tai. It's the martial artist that makes the art, the art simply gives you the tools you need, what you do with them is up to you.

It would be very interesting to take all three and see what fighting style you develope. In any case, good luck with deciding and your training :)

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Hi Cosmos8942, welcome to the club.

Is there a perticular reason you train in such a wide variety of martial arts?
Do you take all of these at one school?

At 9/1/07 08:51 PM, Fremen wrote: ------------------------

Just finished Savate episode of Human Weapon. tv-links stremas them for free, Medium Quality, so I just go there now.

Savate looked really cool, and very very similar to the way one of my instructors fights (my Shihan's daughter), except dirtier.

------------------------

Also, I finally got a job at Karate and I work once a week for two classes.

Congrats on the new job!

Human Weapon pretty much went straight into the toilet after the Savate episode. All of a sudden it turned into mostly about the sporting aspect and comparing other styles to MMA.

At 9/2/07 08:49 AM, Zero122332 wrote: owwie, i just got back from a fight lol
i do pankration

As in Pancrase hybrid wrestling? If so that's what I've most recently done and it's a very good system for those who're adept and those who aren't alike.

At 9/2/07 02:09 PM, dsmking wrote:

At 9/1/07 08:51 PM, Fremen wrote:

O and Cosmos I will eat your babies in a fight...... :p Natural talent means shit. I am one of those people who have absolutely no natural talent in the arts. In the end I find it better to start out with no natural talent than to start with it.

You probably would...I am not much of a fighter...though I will hold my own if I have to. What was it that I was once told..."Sometimes hard work will overcome talent, and many times those who are talented will have to work equally as hard to become strong." You say that you could "eat my babies?" Hopefully we would never have to find out if that is true.

At 9/1/07 08:53 PM, Solfaen wrote: I've recently moved to a new town and since I'm pretty much into martial arts I'd like to join a school. But the only martial art-school around here are of Judo, Tae Kwon-Do and Muay Thai. Which one would be the most effective? Or is it more a personal choice?

To me, the Martial Art doesn't matter as much as the school. After being exposed to basically a shitload of different fighting styles and arts, I think that as long as your school is Self-Defense oriented, and has lots of fighting and real-world context, you should be fine no matter what you choose.

My advice is to go to all three and take sample classes or just watch if they let you and join the one you think you will benefit the most from (generally the one's where the people work very hard, students WANT to learn, and the teachers are knowledgeable and enthusiastic. )

At 9/2/07 08:49 AM, Zero122332 wrote: owwie, i just got back from a fight lol
i do pankration

Can you tell us more?

I like some of the stuff in Pankration (after watching the HW ep), and I think it looks like a really cool art. Can you tell us more about your school and stuff like that?

At 9/2/07 02:09 PM, dsmking wrote:

At 9/1/07 08:51 PM, Fremen wrote:

1) I get paid to go to Karate, and I love being there in general

But you end up being paid in shit.

I don't get paid in literal shit, but I do get paid shit. Like less than minimum wage.

2) I teach informally anyways (mostly other black belts), so it's pretty easy

And most people like that will snuff you out at first and try to act like they are better than you till you kick one of theirs asses.

Not really. I get respect from younger kids for a bunch of reasons:

1) I have a second degree black belt, and only like 9 others in the school do (go to my shihan's website and look it up. I'm am one of the only junior nidans).
2) I know more than them, and I show it.
3) Generally I'm better at forms and fighting (and strikes and everything except stances basically), so when they see that, they are impressed.
4) I'm bigger and taller.
5) My Shihan and I talk at a way more casual level than they'd ever expect (only in adult/strictly black belt only classes), also, we talk about more advanced things, and I usually even add on to his speeches and lectures sometimes, cuz I've heard them 100000 times, and he sometimes forgets things.

3) I get a 40% discount on all Century items, which is really useful since I now have a new heavyweight blue w/white striped ghi, which looks really cool, and it cost under $50...lol

Hence you take that shit you got paid and end up losing it right away. Gotta love the system.

Pretty much not. My parents will gladly pay for most of my Martial Arts expenses. Gotta love not being 18, lol

O and Cosmos I will eat your babies in a fight...... :p Natural talent means shit. I am one of those people who have absolutely no natural talent in the arts. In the end I find it better to start out with no natural talent than to start with it.

Lol...this reminds me of Naruto. Geniuses vs. People who work for what they have.

I think that Natural talent is great, but anyone can work their way up and be just as good with sufficient hard work.

Fremen:

Thanks for the links, that's exactly what I was looking for, if you come into any information about kenpo history please feel free to post it. I don't know about anyone else but kenpo history is of great interest to me.

Lol...just look it up on Google. I was surprised at the info there (but not the amount of info for some reason). It's good to know the history, but the only reason I came to know it was because I was told to write an essay about the history of Kenpo for my Martial Arts school. In the end that screwed me over since mine was the shortest out of the others (some were like fricking 10 pages long while mine was 2.5). The instructors gave me a hard time for that, but I knew a lot more than I actually put down on paper, so I don't regret that it was so short.

As far as teaching goes, well it's a good thing with a couple draw backs. I get paid, in fact all my spending money comes from teaching, I get to train for free, my instructor gets wholesale prices on everything he orders from catalogues (century, proforce, mti, ect...) and usually rounds it down for the instructors, on top of that he doesn't charge us shipping. In addition I find that teaching helps immensily with remembering and understanding techniques and katas. Draw backs, every once in a while you get stuck with some annoying little brat of a kid or some big fat smelly guy or someone who simply has no respect for you because of your rank, age (or gender for the female instructors), or for whatever reason. But mostly it's a good thing, glad you like it as well :)

Usually, respect isn't an issue in my school since it's fun and most people (like, literally, 99%) actually WANT to be there. And the Black belts that I teach are awesome since they all WANT to learn more. The ones that don't want to learn quit, as simple as that. I understand where you are coming from though, since I teach kids classes (about 5-13 I think), so some little kids just forget everything and have no attention span. In these cases, I just remind my self that I'm getting paid for teaching the same moves over and over, which is pretty easy work, so I get through it. Also, my school pays for S&H anyways, so I get the prices in the magazine - 40%, which is awesome in my opinion, since my parents pay for it anyways. lol

Hi Cosmos8942, welcome to the club.

Is there a perticular reason you train in such a wide variety of martial arts?
Do you take all of these at one school?

The main reason I think is due to the fact that I tend upon a wall in anything I do...in this case I may be having a hard time with one style so I will simply move onto another and come back later. As for an instructor...I used to have one sometime ago, private...we first met up by accident (I was just wandering around and I nearly got run over by this guy XD), and so he trained me some...since then I have just been teaching myself using the internet, books, my own intuition, etc. I probably wouldn't be able to take on any level belt in these arts alone...but if I was to combine my knowledge...I am fairly sure I could hold my own against some black belts.

But really...I train in multiple martial arts because I prefer diversity, and I find that one style, in many ways, complements the other styles, and actually helps me train in these other styles.

At 9/3/07 12:42 PM, Cosmos8942 wrote:

Hi Cosmos8942, welcome to the club.

Is there a perticular reason you train in such a wide variety of martial arts?
Do you take all of these at one school?

The main reason I think is due to the fact that I tend upon a wall in anything I do...in this case I may be having a hard time with one style so I will simply move onto another and come back later. As for an instructor...I used to have one sometime ago, private...we first met up by accident (I was just wandering around and I nearly got run over by this guy XD), and so he trained me some...since then I have just been teaching myself using the internet, books, my own intuition, etc. I probably wouldn't be able to take on any level belt in these arts alone...but if I was to combine my knowledge...I am fairly sure I could hold my own against some black belts.

But really...I train in multiple martial arts because I prefer diversity, and I find that one style, in many ways, complements the other styles, and actually helps me train in these other styles.

See, the reason I don't like that is that you are getting no benefits of a school or Sensei/Shihan. You could be punching wrong or kicking in a stupid manner, and no one could tell you if you are messing anything up and you can/will hurt yourself if you take these things too far.

My suggestion is to go to one school and get good at one art. After you study it, you'll see how it relates to all other arts and some aspects of all arts stays the same, and the overruling theories of Martial Arts are the same no matter what you do. That is the sole reason a club like this can exist.

Hey guys, I wanted to start learning Martial Arts, and I live in the Concord area of New Hampshire, does anyone know any good teachers/sensei's around there?

I'm not sure which kind I'd like to learn, I saw a style where you harden your hands and other stuff, but I kinda want to learn to Ninjitsu and other techniques like it, and not just learn the style but the history behind it as well

At 9/3/07 08:11 PM, FourthHorsemanDeath wrote: Hey guys, I wanted to start learning Martial Arts, and I live in the Concord area of New Hampshire, does anyone know any good teachers/sensei's around there?

Nope, but I've been there before. You can probably find them in a phone book or something. Just look up Martial Arts (or Karate or stuff like that). Then go to the schools and try them out and stuff like that. You'll find one that you like if you look hard enough.

I'm not sure which kind I'd like to learn, I saw a style where you harden your hands and other stuff, but I kinda want to learn to Ninjitsu and other techniques like it, and not just learn the style but the history behind it as well

You can learn history online, so the best thing to learn in school is Self-defense. Just concentrate on that, and you'll go far.

At 9/3/07 08:11 PM, FourthHorsemanDeath wrote: Hey guys, I wanted to start learning Martial Arts, and I live in the Concord area of New Hampshire, does anyone know any good teachers/sensei's around there?

I'm not sure which kind I'd like to learn, I saw a style where you harden your hands and other stuff, but I kinda want to learn to Ninjitsu and other techniques like it, and not just learn the style but the history behind it as well

Strengthen your hands? That is a semi-painful process I don't think you want to start up...take this from someone who knows this from experience.

At 9/3/07 07:58 PM, Fremen wrote:

At 9/3/07 12:42 PM, Cosmos8942 wrote:

Hi Cosmos8942, welcome to the club.

Is there a perticular reason you train in such a wide variety of martial arts?
Do you take all of these at one school?

The main reason I think is due to the fact that I tend upon a wall in anything I do...in this case I may be having a hard time with one style so I will simply move onto another and come back later. As for an instructor...I used to have one sometime ago, private...we first met up by accident (I was just wandering around and I nearly got run over by this guy XD), and so he trained me some...since then I have just been teaching myself using the internet, books, my own intuition, etc. I probably wouldn't be able to take on any level belt in these arts alone...but if I was to combine my knowledge...I am fairly sure I could hold my own against some black belts.

But really...I train in multiple martial arts because I prefer diversity, and I find that one style, in many ways, complements the other styles, and actually helps me train in these other styles.

See, the reason I don't like that is that you are getting no benefits of a school or Sensei/Shihan. You could be punching wrong or kicking in a stupid manner, and no one could tell you if you are messing anything up and you can/will hurt yourself if you take these things too far.

My suggestion is to go to one school and get good at one art. After you study it, you'll see how it relates to all other arts and some aspects of all arts stays the same, and the overruling theories of Martial Arts are the same no matter what you do. That is the sole reason a club like this can exist.

Pardon this second post =.=...

Yeah...I will go to a academy after I get out of my BASIC training for the airforce (and through the school and the two-five year advocate afterwards). Also, I know I could injure myself doing these in a improper way...that is a risk I am willing to take, at least to a small degree...for now I will stick with what I know, and what I do know is I had better get back into my Huc Chung regimen...

At 9/3/07 08:11 PM, FourthHorsemanDeath wrote: I'm not sure which kind I'd like to learn, I saw a style where you harden your hands and other stuff, but I kinda want to learn to Ninjitsu and other techniques like it, and not just learn the style but the history behind it as well

Hardening of the hands is emphesized in a couple different styles, karate and kung fu are the two that immediately come to mind. But this is something that I'm not sure is really emphesized is most modern day schools, or even in America. You might be able to find a school that teaches it but the only resources that I know of for "iron body" or "iron palm" training come from the internet. Link.

As for what style you should train in, ninjitsu would be good I believe, though I really don't know much about it... My experience is with kenpo karate and unfortunantly New Hampshire is one of the few states that does not have a tracy's karate studio (where I train), so unfor tunantly I have no specific suggestions... However, unless you have your heart set on a specific style (which is fine) i would look for someplace that emphesizes self defense, which is most places these days.

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Ok, so I have a few things on my mind.

First of all human weapon. I agree with Mono, it hasn't been that great lately. I've kinda had to force myself to watch the last couple episodes, though krav maga was pretty interesting, what did you all think?

That "bursting" technique seemed fairly effective as did some of the other stuff, I was actually mildly impressed. Though they were doing a technique against a gun to the side of the head and it hit me, I actually started to laugh a little. They disarmed their attacker and pointed the gun at him. Ok, all well and fine, I have no problem with that technique. Our answer to that situation however (that being us Chinese kenpo karate people) is to step forward, pivot, check the arm and eye spear all at the same time, then immediately put the arm in a lock and dislocate it as you take your attacker to the ground, you then drop a knee on his chest and punch to the face...

With the krav maga technique you take controll of the situation, with the kenpo karate technique you end the situation. (<emphesis on the period) I just though that was kinda funny is all :)

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Second thing on my mind. I just watched severla parts of a series of youtube videos that pitted brazilian jiu-jitsu against other styles, they look kinda old. Here's one of them. Now if you find the others and watch them you will notice a recurring theme, jiu-jitsu always seems to win. And this bothered me for some reason, sure, Brazilian jiu-jitsu is very effective, no doubt about that but there was just something about the fights that I watched. I couldn't put my finger on it for several minutes, after closely studying the fights I realized something. Based on what I saw, jiu-jitsu can work at all levels of intensity, you can hold back a little and the technique you use will still slowly (rather than quickly) suffocate your opponent. With other martial arts you can't hold back a little and expect equivilant results. Most martial arts don't work half way. The people fighting the jiu-jitsu practitioner, it occoured to me, were sparring. They were going in there not intending to (seriously) hurt their opponent and because of this they lost, every one of them. it seems to me that the line between an effective fighting style and a sport for jui-jitsu is a very fine one. Not so much for most martial arts. In short, I don't believe they were fair fights.

Now I'm not saying that these people would have won the fights if they had gone all out as if their lives depended on it, I can't speak for their skills, I'm just wondering if the fights would have gone differently if they weren't sport fighting.

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And this is the last thing on my mind, related to martial arts that is. I copied this off of Al Tracy's web site. It puts into words just about everything that bothers me about "MMA" and the like.

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What effect has the popularity of the exposure on television of "Ultimate Fighting" had on the Martial Arts?
99% Negative!
With the Michael Vick and "Pit Bull fighting" making the headlines the comparison was made between the Ultimate Fights and Pit Bulls. As one lover of both stated, "the only difference between the two is the dogs do not get to "Tap Out"! And of course, the name of one of the 5 man fighting teams is "PIT BULLS".
What parent, especially a mother, is going to let their kids watch this on TV? Let alone study in a studio that teaches this type of fighting?
Recently there was a TV article on a survey taken in a larger Penn. town of the effect on the current effect of "Ultimate Fighting" on the enrollment in Martial Arts Studios. Tradition studios stated their enrollment on an average was down 40% with the advent of "Ultimate Fighting" on TV. And the studio who claimed to teach "Mixed Martial Arts" had no increase in Students.
ONE QUESTION? How do you train - to lie on your back - and have your head and face, pounded from above, by a fist covered with 4oz gloves?
The promoters of these fights (Especially Pay per View) made over $250,000,000 last year. The average viewer is a Male 18-35 years of age.
Reality: is this really the "Ultimate Fighting" to be used on the street in Life or Death Situation?
Let's look at the rules!
1. Weight divisions -
2. So far no divisions of females or kids. Wonder why?
3. Time Limits
4. Referee to keep you from being killed!
5. No kicks, knees or strikes to the groin
6. No strikes to or ripping out of the throat.
7. No strikes or gouging the eyes
8. No head butts
9. No ripping of the ears
10. Hands protected by gloves
11. No kicks to the knees
12. No biting
13. If you are losing - you can "tap out" and shake hands!
Also for your consideration:
1. No guns - 2. No Knives - 3. No clubs - 4. No multiple opponents
(So much for "ultimate".)
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Please, your thoughts?

I for one don't like ultimate fighting but I won't complain about them not having a womens division or a children's division. I don't need to see lil kids knock another ones teeth down their throat or a scary she-hulk of a women who has more testostorone than most men on a TV.

I also don't believe they should allow someone to die. I mean sparring should just be for fun and not a match to the death. Fights to the death are just wrong for entertainment purposes.

Then the money they make. Hey, it was a good idea and was properly advertised. That is what serperates that from the NHL. NHL sucks at advertising UFC is good at it. That is about it.

At 9/4/07 01:20 AM, Cosmos8942 wrote:

At 9/3/07 08:11 PM, FourthHorsemanDeath wrote: Hey guys, I wanted to start learning Martial Arts, and I live in the Concord area of New Hampshire, does anyone know any good teachers/sensei's around there?

I'm not sure which kind I'd like to learn, I saw a style where you harden your hands and other stuff, but I kinda want to learn to Ninjitsu and other techniques like it, and not just learn the style but the history behind it as well

Strengthen your hands? That is a semi-painful process I don't think you want to start up...take this from someone who knows this from experience.

Hey, first post. I'm Brandon, Have about nine months of formal training in Shaolin-Do Kung Fu. That is a style in which there is a lot of body hardening (also known as Iron Body Training). I'll tell you from experience, body hardening is grueling, painful, and ultimately only useful if you know the forms to use stronger bones. If those techniques are used incorrectly, you will be guaranteed a broken bone, at least. I know this because I tried to harden my hands' bones and ended with a severe boxer's fracture, which didn't heal properly. Don't get into it unless you have at least a senior master teaching you directly.

Hey, first post. I'm Brandon, Have about nine months of formal training in Shaolin-Do Kung Fu. That is a style in which there is a lot of body hardening (also known as Iron Body Training). I'll tell you from experience, body hardening is grueling, painful, and ultimately only useful if you know the forms to use stronger bones. If those techniques are used incorrectly, you will be guaranteed a broken bone, at least. I know this because I tried to harden my hands' bones and ended with a severe boxer's fracture, which didn't heal properly. Don't get into it unless you have at least a senior master teaching you directly.
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I am not sure that you need a expert or a master on hand for you to learn this...I have been hardening my hands for sometime now (I will get around to the other areas of the body later when I am sure that I will be doing them right)...and I would have to say that there are a few key training methods that you should use that will not be harm-full if done right. I won't say anything right now, as there maybe someone around that is better qualified than I to tell you...but if you want a basic laydown and safety explinations don't fret about PMing me...

Also, the process of strengthing your body can be painful, but this can also be extremely useful...but once you start, don't stop unless you want to lose your hard work.

I don't think Al Tracy is saying he'd like to see women and children in the ring or people dying, I believe he's expressing why MMA and training for UFC is not practicle for reality fighting. It portrays a bad image on real martial arts. I don't want people coming into my school thinking that what I teach is how to fight like those MMA guys or that, that style of fighting is the pinnacle of fighting ability and that it's something to aspire to. I certainly don't want people thinking that UFC style fighting it how real fights go, that mentality could get you killed in the real world. Fighing is great fun but you need to seperate the sport fighting from reality fighting and even with just the name "Ultimate Fighting Challenge' I see no such seperation. They call it "ultimate" but there's nothing ultimate about it, unless they change it to 'Ultimate Concussion Challenge'. Great marketing to get people to watch but it's effect is detramental otherwise.

Real 'ultimate' fights happen every day involving women and children. There's no weight divisions, no time limit, no gloves for safety and no referee. Often times there's weapons and all the time people fight dirty. There's no rules on the street and people do die.

With regards to the following topics:
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Self-defense Training

I can't agree with Thunder that most places nowadays emphasize self-defense training. That may be what a lot of places CLAIM to emphasize..... But the reality is often lacking. It's not easy finding a good martial arts school, if self-defense training is your main thing. The dojo around the corner or two blocks down the street is likely not the best place to go. Having, at the very least, a basic understanding of what works (and what doesn't) in the Real Word is essential to finding a good school. If you have experience, like I do, finding a good school is no problem. If you don't...... yeah, that's going to be tough.
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Body Strengthening

Various ways to do that. As for hand strengthening, get a hand-gripper. (Like the kind Boxers use).

Other methods should be avoided. I know of martial artists who intentionally beat the shit out of their hands. They literally slam their fists into thick trees in order to damage them. They actually believe that when their hands heal, they'll build up scar tissue to strengthen their hands...... Well, doesn't quite work that way. Which is more likely to break, a bone that was never broken before or one that has broken at least once or twice? Kinda obvious which is less likely to break because it's stronger. Yet the "Scar tissue" issue still pops up in the wonderful world of martial arts.

Add to that the fact that you lose dexterity in your hands and fingers from building up scar tissue. Even the ones who claim this works, they admit that loss of dexterity is very real. I honesty don't see the point of turning one's hands into small battering rams, when they are far more capable of doing extraordinary things..... far beyond punching a guy out.
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Krav Maga

The original form of Krav Maga is not very impressive. (Would explain why so many variations of it popped up shotly after the original version was created). Not the best art to learn if you want realistic self-defense training.
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Al Tracy's remarks

Basically the same comments I posted a while ago here, regarding MMA and realistic self-defense training.

Mr. Tracy just organized his comments better than I did.