It was an okay episode.

But again, no sympathy for the Doctor. I still don't see why they didn't take the Amy who was middle aged. Why should age matter? Rory showed a huge level of self interest there.

At 9/11/11 08:03 AM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: It was an okay episode.

But again, no sympathy for the Doctor. I still don't see why they didn't take the Amy who was middle aged. Why should age matter? Rory showed a huge level of self interest there.

Because she wasn't "his Amy". The Doctor had a huge influence over Rory's actions in the end. Plus there is the fact that having a considerably older Amy throughout the series would clash with the scripts other writers had prepared.

At 9/11/11 08:03 AM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: It was an okay episode.

But again, no sympathy for the Doctor. I still don't see why they didn't take the Amy who was middle aged. Why should age matter? Rory showed a huge level of self interest there.

Because she wasn't meant to exist and the TARDIS didn't like having the two in there because of paradoxes and stuff. Plus she was a bit of a bitch to be honest.

At 9/11/11 12:51 PM, dogpup4 wrote:

At 9/11/11 08:03 AM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: It was an okay episode.

But again, no sympathy for the Doctor. I still don't see why they didn't take the Amy who was middle aged. Why should age matter? Rory showed a huge level of self interest there.

Because she wasn't meant to exist and the TARDIS didn't like having the two in there because of paradoxes and stuff. Plus she was a bit of a bitch to be honest.

Under the circumstance she had found herself in for the past 30-something years, I found it odd she wasn't completely psychotic. Must have been all the kindness.

At 9/11/11 12:51 PM, dogpup4 wrote:

At 9/11/11 08:03 AM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: It was an okay episode.

But again, no sympathy for the Doctor. I still don't see why they didn't take the Amy who was middle aged. Why should age matter? Rory showed a huge level of self interest there.

Because she wasn't meant to exist and the TARDIS didn't like having the two in there because of paradoxes and stuff. Plus she was a bit of a bitch to be honest.

Well they did jump into Amy's timestream but the Doctor landed 36 years late. She was meant to exist. That was Amy, the Amy Pond which got left behind in the room. The very same person.

If I were in Rory's shoes I would have chose the 40 year old one in all honesty - I don't see how you could ever justify the latter.

At 9/11/11 11:18 AM, Chumbawamba wrote:

At 9/11/11 08:03 AM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: It was an okay episode.

a considerably older Amy throughout the series would clash with the scripts other writers had prepared.

I take your points and your opinion, but I'm just thinking about the whole moral dilemma exclusively.

At 9/11/11 08:03 AM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: But again, no sympathy for the Doctor. I still don't see why they didn't take the Amy who was middle aged. Why should age matter? Rory showed a huge level of self interest there.

I don't know, personally I don't think that explanation really meshes with Rory as we know him at all - I think his reasoning was more along the lines of him not wanting to let Amy have to go through 36 years of solitude, always on the run for her life and eventually going a little mad. The option to save her from that could have been a large motivating factor, even though the final decision tore him up inside.

At 9/11/11 06:11 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: If I were in Rory's shoes I would have chose the 40 year old one in all honesty - I don't see how you could ever justify the latter.

The older Amy did tell Rory to just leave her behind, in all fairness. Sometimes, that's all you need to make a tough decision.
Besides, inaction is always the easier option. If Amy and Amy had swapped places and younger Amy was outside the TARDIS giving all these reasons to stay with older Amy, I can imagine Rory keeping the door locked still.

I quite liked the episode really, despite some of the slow-mo nonsense that went on. The end showed a bit of the Doctor's 'dark side', if you would pardon the cliché, and I liked that.
I will leave you with one little observation I made: the Doctor treated the time doppelgänger in the latest episode very differently from the Flesh doppelgängers. Food for thought.

Holy shit.

http://www.starburstmagazine.com/columns /news/893-news-doctor-who-shada-complete d

Ian Levine, long time Who fandom fixture (he was behind the hilarious "Doctor in Distress" song that was made during the hiatus in the 80s), has paid for Shada to be animated out of his own pocket, and it's now 100% complete. He hopes to release it for free, and is pending permission from the BBC.

Fuck series 6, I want to get this watched. What remains of Shada is awesome enough, but I'd kill to see the entire thing.

At 9/14/11 06:42 PM, TheMaster wrote: Holy shit.

Oh wow. That's incredible. I need to see this.

At 9/14/11 06:49 PM, Oolaph wrote:

At 9/14/11 06:42 PM, TheMaster wrote: Holy shit.

Oh wow. That's incredible. I need to see this.

Keep in mind this IS Ian Levine. He's sort of infamous in the fandom for being insular and a bit egocentric. He may well never release it to the public and keep it to himself.

Ever since he lead the push to recover missing episodes from foreign broadcasters there's been rumours that not all of what he recovered he returned to the BBC, too.

So, The God Complex.

Great stuff, even if the ending was just "The Curse of Fenric", although it did take place in Room 7, so they might have been aware of that. The Nimon reference was incredibly shaky, too. There's a bit of a difference between using advanced technology to pretend to be gods in order to invade a planet and feeding on "faith energy" to live, even if they did both look like minotaurs.

Still the best episode of series 6.5, maybe of all of the series 6.

At 9/17/11 03:38 PM, TheMaster wrote: Still the best episode of series 6.5, maybe of all of the series 6.

Fair point with 6.5 (although I did love Girl Who Waited), can't agree with the whole of 6 because Doctor's Wife.
Series 6 has been crazy, some really good, most really awful, and I'm really not looking forward to next week at all. Craig. Why, writers, why?
Also, not to spoil the ending of God Complex, but does anyone think the ending will stick? And what was with the fishbowl?

Can't wait to watch this episode tonight. It looked pretty great to start with, and now considering what you guys are saying, I'm even more excited.

Just watched it on iPlayer. Ending took me by surprise.. quite sad leaving Amy and Rory, apparently they're making appearences in series 7 though according to an interview with Karen Gillan. Next one looks okay, now I'm just excited for the finale.

At 9/18/11 02:47 PM, TheD-LucksEdition wrote: If next week's episode ends up being another 45 minutes of James Corden being out of breath, holding his hands up and saying THAT WAS MENTAL then count me out.

Dan what the fuck are you doing here?

At 9/18/11 05:37 PM, TheD-LucksEdition wrote:

At 9/18/11 03:32 PM, TheMaster wrote:

At 9/18/11 02:47 PM, TheD-LucksEdition wrote: If next week's episode ends up being another 45 minutes of James Corden being out of breath, holding his hands up and saying THAT WAS MENTAL then count me out.

Dan what the fuck are you doing here?

Yeah, I'm hoping Rory will come back soon too.

Rory's gone. They're both in the finale and the Christmas special, but only Karen Gillian is signed on for series 7.

Supposed there's still time for Darvill to sign up.

At 9/18/11 09:55 PM, TheMaster wrote: Rory's gone. They're both in the finale and the Christmas special, but only Karen Gillian is signed on for series 7.

Supposed there's still time for Darvill to sign up.

He better sign back up. He's the only companion so far I've actually cared about losing. I love Rory, he's just great. If he leaves after this series, he needs a spinoff or something.

Amy and Rory leave. Rose comes back with Donna and River. Tennant shows up and acts moody for half the season.

As much as I like Rory, I think it's time to move on. He doesn't work without Amy, and he story is basically done, not sure what they're going to do with her next season.

I'd like some non-modern, or even non-human companions for a change. I still stand by Jamie and Zoe being the best companion pairing. Jamie's from the 18th century, Zoe's from 2050. We don't need companions who can make pop culture references for us to relate to them.

At 9/18/11 10:29 PM, TheMaster wrote: I'd like some non-modern, or even non-human companions for a change. I still stand by Jamie and Zoe being the best companion pairing. Jamie's from the 18th century, Zoe's from 2050. We don't need companions who can make pop culture references for us to relate to them.

Am I the only one who cringed when Amy forgot her phone in an episode and The Doctor said something like "I bring you to a paradise planet and you have to post on Twitter?"

Since when does he even pay attention to the fads of the blip of time his companions come from let alone not be flaky enough to say it to the right companion.

Smith does an amazing job of acting alien (early season 5/The Lodger) and yeah, he spends a lot of time with humans so I can forgive him dressing in Earth clothes with Earth styles (fez, bow ties, trench coats)... But throwing in reference to social network and cell phones is a bit much for me.

At 9/18/11 10:40 PM, Malachy wrote: Since when does he even pay attention to the fads of the blip of time his companions come from let alone not be flaky enough to say it to the right companion.

Since every other line David Tennant had was some horrible pop music or film reference.

Smith does an amazing job of acting alien (early season 5/The Lodger) and yeah, he spends a lot of time with humans so I can forgive him dressing in Earth clothes with Earth styles (fez, bow ties, trench coats)... But throwing in reference to social network and cell phones is a bit much for me.

It's terrible, and hopefully just a hangover from RTD's tenure that will disappear in time.

At 9/18/11 11:00 PM, TheMaster wrote: It's terrible, and hopefully just a hangover from RTD's tenure that will disappear in time.

I agree. I can understand that he might sonic screwdriver a companion's cell phone (or any other type of portable communicating device) so that they may call home or something. But the way I see it, that should be the extend of interest he might show in such a device being a 700 year old alien. It also makes the episodes more watchable for years to come. Imagine if 6 years ago Rose was asking if the TARDIS could connect to her favorite AIM chat room or MySpace? It's a funny pop culture reference for the viewer at that time but it will have no meaning for a viewer 10 years from now. Keep to vague references to say the internet or television but not specific pop culture celebrities/events/websites.

At 9/18/11 11:52 PM, Malachy wrote:

At 9/18/11 11:00 PM, TheMaster wrote: It's terrible, and hopefully just a hangover from RTD's tenure that will disappear in time.

I agree. I can understand that he might sonic screwdriver a companion's cell phone (or any other type of portable communicating device) so that they may call home or something. But the way I see it, that should be the extend of interest he might show in such a device being a 700 year old alien.

So Smith should have said, and you're posting on Twitter, with a smile? Has anybody else felt that the show isn't being given very much "new" direction?

To do with what The Master said earlier about previous writers being fans, I think employing a writer who wasn't previously a major Doctor Who fan could bring new life into his character. But then again doing this might also make things take a turn for the worst .

I just can't shake the feeling that RTD's vision of the Doctor is being recycled by Moffat. However, it is possible that I am confusing this with the Doctors intended idiolect itself - as we pry into the further ends of the character. But if you are going to extrapolate any deeper end of the Doctor, the ideation of 900 years of pain and adventure - not only do you have really dig deep, you also need to bring out something new in him, a feeling of narrative we haven't seen before at least in the new series.

This is the side of storytelling I felt RTD succeeded in. Growing the character. I suppose only time will tell what will become of the Doctor, and how Moffat will unveil his grand scheme...

At 9/19/11 06:01 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: So Smith should have said, and you're posting on Twitter, with a smile? Has anybody else felt that the show isn't being given very much "new" direction?

No, I feel that Smith should have said "Cell phone? What, your cally-talky sort of thing? why do you need that?" and Karen could have replied "it takes pictures, too!" I feel such a response would throw the appropriate reference to pop culture (cell phones/camera phones) but it also plays off the fact that he isn't a product of late 20th/early 21st century Earth society. It would also remain relevant for future viewers if/when twitter isn't around anymore. Again, it would be silly to watch an episode from the 70s and be dumbfounded by references to shortlived and unmemorable fads beyond bell bottoms or disco.

This is the side of storytelling I felt RTD succeeded in. Growing the character. I suppose only time will tell what will become of the Doctor, and how Moffat will unveil his grand scheme...

I agree - whiny/pouty tennant doctor at least gave some extra dimension to a happy-go-lucky wacky monster-of-the-week style doctor of earlier incarnations.

At 9/19/11 06:01 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: This is the side of storytelling I felt RTD succeeded in. Growing the character. I suppose only time will tell what will become of the Doctor, and how Moffat will unveil his grand scheme...

RTD might have added more character development to the show, but the development itself was terrible. Obviously GOOD character development is the ideal, but I'll take classic static Doctor over whiney post-Time War Doctor any day.

In an ideal world we'd have had the pay off to the Cartmel Masterplan on screen, not in the now non-canon Virgin New Adventures. The Doctor being a much more ancient and powerful figure than he appears is more interesting than the current storyline, which is effectively just about a man who wants to explore the universe and have adventures being pushed to do terrible things for the greater good, and how he deals with this.

The eventual conclusion aside (Lungbarrow is a little contrived in how it links The Other to The Doctor and is hardly the greatest VNA ever written), the "much more than just a Time Lord" story is the one I'd rather be watching. Although, to be fair, I couldn't see it working with any Doctor other than McCoy, since much of it relies on him being an absolute bastard.

Speaking of McCoy, a lot of people seem to be favouring Fenric for the series' Big Bad. As much as I'd love to see it happen, I think it's far more likely that Moffat will pull this off without relying on a classic villain reveal at the end, and will just wrap everything up with his Silence/Church thing.

At 9/19/11 06:09 PM, Malachy wrote:

At 9/19/11 06:01 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: This is the side of storytelling I felt RTD succeeded in. Growing the character. I suppose only time will tell what will become of the Doctor, and how Moffat will unveil his grand scheme...

I agree - whiny/pouty tennant doctor at least gave some extra dimension to a happy-go-lucky wacky monster-of-the-week style doctor of earlier incarnations.

This is the thing. He started off without what you call the "whiny/pouty" side. But through everything he had seen and done I developed a great understanding for it. I believe his ideation of compassion in series 4 is born from not only a God complex, but also his own experiences.

"In the end you just get tired. Tired of the struggle. Tired of watching everything you love turn to dust".

Which is why it annoyed me that Matt Smith did it the last episode. Because it recycled a dimension of the Doctor that RTD created that we had already seen but the process of change for Matt Smith hasn't happened yet, or at least I haven't seen it.

I understand, or believe that the Doctor wants to die. I think that his greatest fear actually was staying alive. That he is stuck in this lonliness and it is all very complicated - because he likely understands what is on the other side, or believes it to be pathetic, which could also refer to Fredrich Nietzsche; the Doctor as a master moralist (he creates of values and maximizes himself in this realm, because there is a great schism between what exists in life and what exists in death). Tackling that issue, suicide, through loss of love would be a very powerful thing for Moffat to do.

But this begs the question can he do it?
Or is he doing it right?
Or should he do it at all?

This is my own view, please digress freely. But be advised, I'm the kind of person who watched Scrotie Mc Boogerballs and thought critically about it.

At 9/19/11 07:21 PM, TheMaster wrote:

At 9/19/11 06:01 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: This is the side of storytelling I felt RTD succeeded in. Growing the character. I suppose only time will tell what will become of the Doctor, and how Moffat will unveil his grand scheme...

RTD might have added more character development to the show, but the development itself was terrible. Obviously GOOD character development is the ideal, but I'll take classic static Doctor over whiney post-Time War Doctor any day.

In an ideal world we'd have had the pay off to the Cartmel Masterplan on screen, not in the now non-canon Virgin New Adventures. The Doctor being a much more ancient and powerful figure than he appears is more interesting than the current storyline, which is effectively just about a man who wants to explore the universe and have adventures being pushed to do terrible things for the greater good, and how he deals with this.

See there is too much old adventures for me to get through at this pace. I've watched some of them, brilliant, all of them - can you recruit some of the older episodes? Like if you had to pick between the best of the best what would it be?

At 9/20/11 02:26 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: See there is too much old adventures for me to get through at this pace. I've watched some of them, brilliant, all of them - can you recruit some of the older episodes? Like if you had to pick between the best of the best what would it be?

Genesis of the Daleks, The Tomb of the Cybermen, The Daemons, The Mind of Evil, The Curse of Fenric, The Caves of Androzani.

There's a few to get you started.

Christmas special guest stars:
Claire Skinner
Bill Bailey
Alexander Armstrong
Arabella Weir

Looks more like the lineup for an episode of QI.