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New York's Gun Ban

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TheMason
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:08 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 12:18 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
That being said Murder is not defensive it is offensive which is why we need to disarm the population because they don't even understand that there is a huge difference. Cops are trained to intelligently take down a target not necessarily shoot to KILL whereas an untrained pleb with a gun is more than likely going to panic and light up the target up which is murder. Pepper spray is self defense, Karate is self defense but shooting someone in the head even if under the guise of self defense is still murder.

No...murder, as Camaro is pointing out, can be either defensive or offensive. As the only attorney I know posting here on NG, I think on these matters his opinion are authoritative and defenitive.

Furthermore, you're making some erroneous assumptions here.

1) Cops are trained to shoot center-mass (ie: the torso)...much like people going through CCW training are taught to do. Furthermore, any 'plebe' who goes and target shoots a human form will notice that the target rings are located center-mass...not in the head. Now here's the thing about head shots...anyone who aims for the head who is not a sniper or special forces is a moron. It is a small, highly mobile target. So any 'plebe' aiming for it...is probably going to miss.

2) It is nice to sit there stroking yourself and thinking how much of a man you are for being able to take care of someone with just your bare hands or melee weapons. But I don't give a shit about your puffed-up male ego. My ex-wife was one of the 25% of women who have been raped (unless you know 3 or less women...we all know a woman who has been sexually assaulted). So what about a woman who is lacking in physical prowess or the man who does not know how to fight? Also, pepper spray is horribly inadequate. See that's the problem with chemical weapons...once out of the canister you no longer control them. Often times, the sprayer gets incapacitated as well...especially if there is a height differential. God created man...Sam Colt made man equal.

3) More people get injured (about double) when a cop pulls their gun than when a civilian...I mean 'plebe'...pulls theirs.

The reality is LL1...you are grossly underinformed on this topic which oddly puts in a positon 180 degrees from your anti-fascism rants.


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Feoric
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:10 PM Reply

I'm sure I can find similarities between the United States and the Soviet Union or the Byzantine Empire. That doesn't mean they're alike, nor does it count for much other than fodder for history nerds. It's meaningless charged rhetoric and it's intellectually dishonest to say "well there's just similarities" because that's obviously not the intent.

LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:15 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:10 PM, Feoric wrote: I'm sure I can find similarities between the United States and the Soviet Union or the Byzantine Empire. That doesn't mean they're alike, nor does it count for much other than fodder for history nerds. It's meaningless charged rhetoric and it's intellectually dishonest to say "well there's just similarities" because that's obviously not the intent.

I'm not saying I think Obama is gonna declare himself king and put all white people in camps tomorrow. Nor am I saying he's going to make guns illegal or anything like that.

I'm just saying, the way he runs his administration, and his policies, warrant some caution. Something to keep eyes on. To pretend "that could never happen in America" or "Obama could never do that", is ignorant, and a dangerous, complacent mindset.

RacistBassist
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:25 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:15 PM, LemonCrush wrote: I'm just saying, the way he runs his administration, and his policies, warrant some caution. Something to keep eyes on. To pretend "that could never happen in America" or "Obama could never do that", is ignorant, and a dangerous, complacent mindset.

I know right? We would never put people into camps based on ethnicity nor would we ever nearly commit genocide or have second class citizens


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LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:32 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:25 PM, RacistBassist wrote: I know right? We would never put people into camps based on ethnicity nor would we ever nearly commit genocide or have second class citizens

Shhhhhhh ;)

TheMason
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:38 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:02 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 1/26/13 01:56 PM, Feoric wrote: I'd posit that comparing Obama to Hitler or Mao is an example of going for maximum irrational emotional appeal.
I'm not comparing them, I'm pointing out similarities.

This just seemed suddenly appropriate. :)

New York's Gun Ban


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Feoric
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:39 PM Reply

Let me know when you see Obama championing domestic policies like ethnic deportation or forced resettlements or private farming being illegal.

Anyway, I have a question. What guns did the NY legislation ban?

LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:47 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:39 PM, Feoric wrote: Let me know when you see Obama championing domestic policies like ethnic deportation or forced resettlements or private farming being illegal.

Again, for (I think) the 3rd time, I didn't say he was Hitler or Mao or that they were identical. I said his policies of a strong corporate/government relationship, false imprisonment, and imperialism, are similar.

Anyway, I have a question. What guns did the NY legislation ban?

Copy/paste from USA Today:

Assault weapons -- defined as any rifle with a "military style" feature, such as a bayonet or a telescoping stock [note: doesn't make guns more dangerous] -- that are currently owned would be grandfathered and would have to be registered with the state. Magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds and manufactured before 1994, which are currently legal, would have to be turned over to authorities or sold out of state within one year. If a magazine has a capacity between eight and 10, it would have to be retrofitted to only hold seven rounds.

So, basically any gun with more than a 7 round capacity. Which, again, wouldn't be an issue...if government thugs and enforcers were subject to the same laws.

Camarohusky
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:51 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:38 PM, TheMason wrote: This just seemed suddenly appropriate. :)

I... I don't know what to think anymore...

leanlifter1
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 02:58 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:08 PM, TheMason wrote:
No...murder, as Camaro is pointing out, can be either defensive or offensive. As the only attorney I know posting here on NG, I think on these matters his opinion are authoritative and defenitive.

Furthermore, you're making some erroneous assumptions here.

1) Cops are trained to shoot center-mass (ie: the torso)...much like people going through CCW training are taught to do. Furthermore, any 'plebe' who goes and target shoots a human form will notice that the target rings are located center-mass...not in the head. Now here's the thing about head shots...anyone who aims for the head who is not a sniper or special forces is a moron. It is a small, highly mobile target. So any 'plebe' aiming for it...is probably going to miss.

2) It is nice to sit there stroking yourself and thinking how much of a man you are for being able to take care of someone with just your bare hands or melee weapons. But I don't give a shit about your puffed-up male ego. My ex-wife was one of the 25% of women who have been raped (unless you know 3 or less women...we all know a woman who has been sexually assaulted). So what about a woman who is lacking in physical prowess or the man who does not know how to fight? Also, pepper spray is horribly inadequate. See that's the problem with chemical weapons...once out of the canister you no longer control them. Often times, the sprayer gets incapacitated as well...especially if there is a height differential. God created man...Sam Colt made man equal.

3) More people get injured (about double) when a cop pulls their gun than when a civilian...I mean 'plebe'...pulls theirs.

The reality is LL1...you are grossly underinformed on this topic which oddly puts in a positon 180 degrees from your anti-fascism rants.

Funny you have nothing to back up your claims but your incessant whining that everyone agrees with you LOL. Further you are trying to imply that the law system is infallible and perfect instead of basing your ideals about gun ownership and so called rights on morals and respect you cop out to a corrupt system of coercion and oppression to justify your agenda.


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RacistBassist
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 03:01 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:39 PM, Feoric wrote: Anyway, I have a question. What guns did the NY legislation ban?

Any semi-automatic gun with a "military" feature


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LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 03:37 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:58 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Funny you have nothing to back up your claims but your incessant whining that everyone agrees with you LOL.

Except...you know....reality.

Also, the law does not give people rights.

leanlifter1
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 05:15 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 03:37 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 1/26/13 02:58 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Funny you have nothing to back up your claims but your incessant whining that everyone agrees with you LOL.
Except...you know....reality.

Also, the law does not give people rights.

Anyway Tit for Tat I advocate for morality and equal rights and what was it that you are an advocate for ?


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Feoric
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 05:39 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 03:01 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Any semi-automatic gun with a "military" feature

Didn't New York already have a state law virtually similar to the federal assault weapons ban? I thought the SAFE act just codified a stricter definition among other things, not implementing the actual ban itself.

At 1/26/13 02:47 PM, LemonCrush wrote: So, basically any gun with more than a 7 round capacity.

That's pretty funny. Not "haha" kind of funny but "...oh god..." kind of funny.

It's this kind of stuff that just makes me hate being on the pro-gun control side, where all "we" have to show for is the most retarded legislation. If you're not banning handguns, you're doing jack shit to stop crime. I don't know what it would take for legislators to get this, but there's also the frustrating possibility that they probably do. They're basically cowards, quite frankly, because they're too worried to tread new waters. It seems callous, but it needs to be said: the purpose of the SAFE Act was to score political points, and you can't score points if you try to enact a law which will face a ton of backlash and is probably unconstitutional to boot, ending up bogged down in court for years. They just don't want to spend the time, money and political capital necessary to implement a weapons ban that involves handguns with the exception of limiting magazine capacity limits in lieu of the AWB. The purpose of that is - although the AWB is a known dumb law - it does have one upside, which is that it is a known quantity in terms of the law and public perception, and as an added bonus it's unlikely to trigger any new court challenges that can build on stuff like McDonald.

Although I admit this is an oversimplification, the end result of the SAFE Act is that it essentially targets sport shooters and does nothing to curb criminals. I have no problem if the lives of sport shooters are made more difficult if any sort of gun control legislation is passed and it's demonstrably proven to lower crime and homicide rates, tough shit. But if that's all it effectively does, then I'd be narrow minded to support it. It's worth clarifying here that I don't actually think the intention behind the law was to specifically target sport shooters and let criminals get away, I just believe that the lawmakers ostensibly don't care that much about sport shooters or crime, as the law is appearing more and more to me as a feel good measure that was written with more of an emphasis on political expediency than out of any real interest in reducing crime, or hurting sport shooters for that matter.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 05:45 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 02:02 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 1/26/13 01:56 PM, Feoric wrote: I'd posit that comparing Obama to Hitler or Mao is an example of going for maximum irrational emotional appeal.
I'm not comparing them, I'm pointing out similarities.

Obviously is not genocidal...oh wait, he kills brown people daily....nevermind.

But seriously, he's not putting people on death trains. But there are similarities and they are undeniable.

THAT IS AMERICA>

For you to not realize the idiocy of you singling out a single pawn in the long stream of bullshit that is the american empire is just really really really short sighted. You think Obama is to blame for this shit? Try the entire fucking country.

RacistBassist
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 06:01 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 05:39 PM, Feoric wrote: Didn't New York already have a state law virtually similar to the federal assault weapons ban? I thought the SAFE act just codified a stricter definition among other things, not implementing the actual ban itself.

It changed it from two features to any features.


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JackPhantasm
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 06:03 PM Reply

You shouldn't want to have a gun.

leanlifter1
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 06:09 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 06:03 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: You shouldn't want to have a gun.

The gun bigots justified there want of a gun by a synthetic need for a gun. How do they create this synthetic need for a gun well the put themselves at a disadvantageous and dangerous location where they choose to call home.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 06:11 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 06:03 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: You shouldn't want to have a gun.

Why?

leanlifter1
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 06:14 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 06:11 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/26/13 06:03 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: You shouldn't want to have a gun.
Why?

Sociopaths are behind the avocation of gun ownership and rights. That's why.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 06:27 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 06:14 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 1/26/13 06:11 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/26/13 06:03 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: You shouldn't want to have a gun.
Why?
Sociopaths are behind the avocation of gun ownership and rights. That's why.

Sociopaths are behind it, but not in the way you are suggesting.

I find it odd how you use bigot though, can you explain to me how just because people are debating an issue passionately there is bigotry.
That the side who doesn't want to lose something is bigoted and the side that desires to take is not? Or how about that the side who does not actually understand guns is the one who is acting on their ignorant prejudice to push their agenda. Isn't that actually closer to the definition of bigot?

Please answer the question. Is demanding someone lose something based on prejudice and ignorance closer to the definition of the word you use so often or not?

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 06:36 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 06:27 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/26/13 06:14 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 1/26/13 06:11 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/26/13 06:03 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: You shouldn't want to have a gun.
Why?
Sociopaths are behind the avocation of gun ownership and rights. That's why.
Sociopaths are behind it, but not in the way you are suggesting.

I find it odd how you use bigot though, can you explain to me how just because people are debating an issue passionately there is bigotry.
That the side who doesn't want to lose something is bigoted and the side that desires to take is not?

Or how about that the side who does not actually understand guns is the one who is acting on their ignorant prejudice to push their agenda. Isn't that actually closer to the definition of bigot?


Please answer the question. Is demanding someone lose something based on prejudice and ignorance closer to the definition of the word you use so often or not?

People that don't want guns around there children should be given that much respect. It's about the children as we must show them that violence is not the way to a better world. If we teach the kids that guns are ok and shooting people is ok then it just breads a violent society. We must break the cycle here and now.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 08:56 PM Reply

No I think you shouldn't want a gun because it's a fucking self-defecation neanderthal tendancy that modern society should strive to destroy.

leanlifter1
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 09:06 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 08:56 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: No I think you shouldn't want a gun because it's a fucking self-defecation neanderthal tendancy that modern society should strive to destroy.

The problem is the self dedicating neanderthals paranoia.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 09:13 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 08:56 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: No I think you shouldn't want a gun because it's a fucking self-defecation neanderthal tendancy that modern society should strive to destroy.

Neanderthal was actually more peaceful..

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 09:31 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 08:56 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: No I think you shouldn't want a gun because it's a fucking self-defecation neanderthal tendancy that modern society should strive to destroy.

Of course it'd be great to live in a world without violence. Of course this is not possible in this realm of reality and is contradictory to human nature.

There for I should be allowed to defend myself.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 09:33 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 05:15 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Anyway Tit for Tat I advocate for morality and equal rights and what was it that you are an advocate for ?

I advocate the right for people to be free without infringement, and the freedom to as they please, as long as it does not infringe on the rights, prosperity, safety, etc. of others.

Morality and equal rights have nothing to with gun control, so please try to stay on topic.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 09:38 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 09:33 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
Morality and equal rights have nothing to with gun control, so please try to stay on topic.

That's exactly the point Guns are not moral in any way or form.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 09:44 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 09:38 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: That's exactly the point Guns are not moral in any way or form.

But stealing them from people under threat of violence or force, is?

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 26th, 2013 @ 09:46 PM Reply

At 1/26/13 09:38 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: That's exactly the point Guns are not moral in any way or form.

No item is inherently moral or immoral


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