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New York's Gun Ban

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Warforger
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 08:38 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 02:34 PM, LemonCrush wrote: No it doesn't. An armed citizen, or even a cop, would've popped his bitch ass the moment he pulled a gun. FWIW, kids are not magic...they do not just "find out" safe cobminations

Last I checked Adam Lanza was a private citizen.

Well, a bunch of people didn't bring their guns to a movie theatre in Colorado...and now they're dead...so evidently, there is danger everywhere.

Right, that doesn't mean had they brought their guns to the theater no one would have died. But that wasn't my point.

So, you prefer that, say, children in an elementary school, be sitting ducks for a madman?

Wait so you think children should be armed?

Teachers are armed in Israel. When was the last time you heard of a school shooting there? Hell, just have a cop or two at schools.

School shootings happen all the time in America and we don't notice very often. I mean there were a couple ones before the Sandy Hook shooting and after but they don't garner as much attention since the death toll isn't as big nor are they toddlers. I doubt they'll be reported in Israel. But that's like saying "Teachers in Kosovo are armed" well no shit that place is alot more conflict prone than America.


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LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 09:07 PM Reply

At 1/22/13 08:38 PM, Warforger wrote: Last I checked Adam Lanza was a private citizen.

Ok, and?

Right, that doesn't mean had they brought their guns to the theater no one would have died. But that wasn't my point.

Would've evened the odds.

Wait so you think children should be armed?

No, I'm saying we should arm teachers, or more realistically/likely, put a couple cops in schools.

School shootings happen all the time in America and we don't notice very often. I mean there were a couple ones before the Sandy Hook shooting and after but they don't garner as much attention since the death toll isn't as big nor are they toddlers. I doubt they'll be reported in Israel. But that's like saying "Teachers in Kosovo are armed" well no shit that place is alot more conflict prone than America.

Well, I think the media is partially responsible for some of this shit. Copycat crimes are kinda common when the media blows it up.

Camarohusky
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 11:55 PM Reply

At 1/22/13 08:31 PM, TheMason wrote: Besides...it's a shitty gun. Perhaps we should ban it from the military too and buy AK-47s!

Ah yes, cause it's in the military's best interest for their guns to jam constantly for no good reason...

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 10:40 AM Reply

At 1/22/13 11:55 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/22/13 08:31 PM, TheMason wrote: Besides...it's a shitty gun. Perhaps we should ban it from the military too and buy AK-47s!
Ah yes, cause it's in the military's best interest for their guns to jam constantly for no good reason...

The AK series is known for it's reliability and long life span combined with cost efficiency. Jamming is not an issue with them as much as it is with the "more modern" guns.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 11:51 AM Reply

At 1/22/13 08:38 PM, Warforger wrote:
Right, that doesn't mean had they brought their guns to the theater no one would have died.

Just FYI... Holmes picked the theater because it was a 'gun free' zone.


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TheMason
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 12:09 PM Reply

At 1/22/13 11:55 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/22/13 08:31 PM, TheMason wrote: Besides...it's a shitty gun. Perhaps we should ban it from the military too and buy AK-47s!
Ah yes, cause it's in the military's best interest for their guns to jam constantly for no good reason...

I own an AK-47, literally put thousands of rounds through it with no jams. I've also fired M-16s in the USAF... experienced many jams with less rounds. Comes down to the room in thereceiver. AKs have a lot of room for dirt and debris to exit the receiver when the bolt Carrier moves. AR-15...not so much. Plus the gas system on the AR-15 is very sensitive to ammo discrepancies.

The M-16 is a piece of crap.


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MsBobman20
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 08:51 PM Reply

whether they ban them or not people will still have them...

LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 09:15 PM Reply

At 1/23/13 08:51 PM, MsBobman20 wrote: whether they ban them or not people will still have them...

Exactly. So why waste the millions of dollars and thousands of hours on bans or confiscations?

We already see what prohibition does. Look at the Prohibition Era in America. Look at the "war on Drugs". It breeds more violence, and makes millonaires out of criminals and does nothing to stop distribution of what we're banning

Warforger
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 09:16 PM Reply

At 1/22/13 09:07 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Ok, and?

And he abused his power.

Would've evened the odds.

Doubtful. It didn't help in Columbine after all. He would've still killed alot of people regardless.

No, I'm saying we should arm teachers, or more realistically/likely, put a couple cops in schools.

Which already are there, and again teachers is a bit much.

Well, I think the media is partially responsible for some of this shit. Copycat crimes are kinda common when the media blows it up.

It happens every other month honestly, it's just the media only blows it up when people take interest. People would only take interest if it was really bad.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 09:40 PM Reply

At 1/23/13 09:16 PM, Warforger wrote: Doubtful. It didn't help in Columbine after all. He would've still killed alot of people regardless.

A student and a teacher literally had their lives saved because the shooters had to engage the armed guard, who was over 60 yards away, which isn't really a handguns strong suit, and he personally escorted students to safety, never really getting close enough to make a bigger difference.

Which already are there, and again teachers is a bit much.

Except the schools that don't have them. It's weird, because for the schools that don't have them it's all of a fuckin sudden the end of the world and makes a high school the Wild West while we conveniently ignore the places that already implemented this. If a teacher has a CPL let them. Coach them on proper storage and handling.

It happens every other month honestly, it's just the media only blows it up when people take interest. People would only take interest if it was really bad.

This could just be because of the ages I was at when they happened and me starting to take more notice, but it seems that after Columbine shootings happened more frequently, and after V-Tec they just fucking exploded in popularity.


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somespammer224
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 09:50 PM Reply

What the fuck?


Thumbs up if you...oh wait, i have a life.

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LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 23rd, 2013 @ 10:24 PM Reply

At 1/23/13 09:16 PM, Warforger wrote: And he abused his power.

What power? He was a lunatic...

Doubtful. It didn't help in Columbine after all. He would've still killed alot of people regardless.

Didn't help in columbine because it wasn't there

Which already are there, and again teachers is a bit much.

There are not usually cops in schools

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 06:17 PM Reply

At 1/23/13 10:24 PM, LemonCrush wrote: What power? He was a lunatic...

Exactly, he got his hands on guns and murdered a bunch of school children.

Didn't help in columbine because it wasn't there

You know I'd tell you to research what you're debating before you actually debate seeing as you obviously don't click on links people post and have already submitted your reply as soon as you saw the post. At this point you should know better but you apparently don't.


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LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 09:56 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 06:17 PM, Warforger wrote: Exactly, he got his hands on guns and murdered a bunch of school children.

Obviously. So what's your point? He was not a law abiding citizen, and was mentally ill. He murdered school children. Therefore, make school safer. This isn't rocket science.

The proof is in the pudding. EVERY TIME a shooting like this happens, it's in a gun free zone. These people target gun free zones, SPECIFICALLY because they're safest for them. Schools, movie theaters, malls. Declaring any place a gun free zone, is like putting up a neon sign to homicidal maniacs saying "OVER HERE. EASY UNARMED TARGETS"

You know I'd tell you to research what you're debating before you actually debate seeing as you obviously don't click on links people post and have already submitted your reply as soon as you saw the post. At this point you should know better but you apparently don't.

Blah blah duck and dodge.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 10:22 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 09:56 PM, LemonCrush wrote: The proof is in the pudding. EVERY TIME a shooting like this happens, it's in a gun free zone. These people target gun free zones, SPECIFICALLY because they're safest for them. Schools, movie theaters, malls. Declaring any place a gun free zone, is like putting up a neon sign to homicidal maniacs saying "OVER HERE. EASY UNARMED TARGETS"

Fun fact: Mass shootings happen almost always in high populace areas (ex: Schools, movie theaters, malls).
Fun fact #2: Mass shootings happen in both gun free and non-gun free locations (ex: Fort Hood)!
Fun fact #3: Murders are almost always personal, and mass shootings commonly originate from a thought of revenge.
Fun fact #4: Media attention is commonly valued by mass murderers. (One can argue it probably was to those that died.)

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 10:26 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 10:22 PM, CaveStoryGrounds wrote: Fun fact #2: Mass shootings happen in both gun free and non-gun free locations (ex: Fort Hood)!

Fort Hood is a gun free zone though.


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LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 10:36 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 10:22 PM, CaveStoryGrounds wrote: Fun fact: Mass shootings happen almost always in high populace areas (ex: Schools, movie theaters, malls).

Yeah, remember the mass shooting at Yankee Stadium?

Fun fact #2: Mass shootings happen in both gun free and non-gun free locations (ex: Fort Hood)!

Fort Hood and military bases are gun free zones.

Fun fact #3: Murders are almost always personal, and mass shootings commonly originate from a thought of revenge.

Yeah, I'm sure the Aurora shooter had a personal vendetta against Christian Bale

Fun fact #4: Media attention is commonly valued by mass murderers. (One can argue it probably was to those that died.)

This is true. So why do mainstream media outlet stand on the graves of dead children?

LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 10:43 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 10:26 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Fort Hood is a gun free zone though.

$50 says he's never even set foot on a military base.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 10:51 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 09:56 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
The proof is in the pudding. EVERY TIME a shooting like this happens, it's in a gun free zone.

The gun free places are not the problem it's the idiot with the gun that has the problem. It's people that advocate for guns is the reason these dangerous fools and murders even have access to guns so in reality advocating for gun rights makes you an accomplice to murder.


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LemonCrush
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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 11:08 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 10:51 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: The gun free places are not the problem it's the idiot with the gun that has the problem.

Exactly. And the gun free zones make it easier for him.

It's always a good idea to make it as easy as possible for a killer, right?

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 11:40 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 11:08 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 1/24/13 10:51 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: The gun free places are not the problem it's the idiot with the gun that has the problem.
Exactly. And the gun free zones make it easier for him.

It's always a good idea to make it as easy as possible for a killer, right?

It's predominately Gang Violence that equates to the vast majority of the shooting in America. That being said if the troubled person whom shot up the gun free zone had no access to a gun there would have been no shooting right. Why make it easier like you say so like us take the guns out of the shops and out of the homes. It's not the gun free zone that broke any laws or moral codes.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 24th, 2013 @ 11:49 PM Reply

At 1/24/13 11:40 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: It's predominately Gang Violence that equates to the vast majority of the shooting in America. That being said if the troubled person whom shot up the gun free zone had no access to a gun there would have been no shooting right. Why make it easier like you say so like us take the guns out of the shops and out of the homes. It's not the gun free zone that broke any laws or moral codes.

1) We're not talking about Gang Violence, but since you brought it up, gun violence and gangs seem to run most rampant in cities with the tightest gun laws, like NY and LA

2) It's literally impossible to stop a criminal from obtaining what they want. That's why they're criminals. They want something, drugs, alcohol during prohibition or whatever, and will hurt people to get it. This is an unstoppable fact of life. As such, it is better to allow people to defend themselves

3) Gun free zones do violate the moral code of allowing someone to protect themselves and/or their families. That's a right, don't ya think? Don't you tihnk that people have a right to protect themselves? The Constitution does. In fact, I'd say anyone, anywhere will agree that it is your right to defend your life and well-being.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 25th, 2013 @ 12:10 AM Reply

At 1/24/13 11:49 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
1) We're not talking about Gang Violence, but since you brought it up, gun violence and gangs seem to run most rampant in cities with the tightest gun laws, like NY and LA

That's a failed statement because NYC and LA are infested with gangs so of course gun crime and violence would naturally be higher in Gang infested cities.

2) It's literally impossible to stop a criminal from obtaining what they want.

It's also literally impossible to keep a criminal out of jail whats that three strikes and you out law in the US.

3) Gun free zones do violate the moral code of allowing someone to protect themselves and/or their families.

Murder is murder it is not moral.

Don't you tihnk that people have a right to protect themselves?

We put extra "Training" , responsibility and authority into our Police Force to make the judgment call of when and where the right time is to subdue a criminal or crazy person. When emotions run high a civilian makes improper judgment calls and could miss the target and kill an innocent in the crossfire. Once again this is why we place that responsibly on the Police because they have the Training and mind set to perform under pressure whereas a civilian cowboy vigilante more often does not.

The Constitution does. In fact, I'd say anyone, anywhere will agree that it is your right to defend your life and well-being.

The Vigilante has a good chance to catch a bullet when attempting to act out his child hood cowboy fantasy. Worse yet the Vigilante has a good chance in making matters worse and escalating the situation and putting more innocent lives on the line. It's best to leave the Police work to the Police as they train everyday and are much better than you at their own profession. If you want to be a cowboy I suggest you acquire a Special Constables permit and have at it.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 25th, 2013 @ 12:14 AM Reply

Police respond, not prevent. We are constantly cutting down their budgets and making them cut personnel. Murder =/= Self Defense by definition.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 25th, 2013 @ 12:22 AM Reply

At 1/25/13 12:14 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Police respond, not prevent. We are constantly cutting down their budgets and making them cut personnel. Murder =/= Self Defense by definition.

Bull shit America is a Police State there are cops everywhere you look.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 25th, 2013 @ 12:24 AM Reply

At 1/25/13 12:22 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 1/25/13 12:14 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Police respond, not prevent. We are constantly cutting down their budgets and making them cut personnel. Murder =/= Self Defense by definition.
Bull shit America is a Police State there are cops everywhere you look.

You can say that all you want, but until you turn this country into minority report police can't prevent crime. They can discourage, stop, and respond.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 25th, 2013 @ 12:37 AM Reply

At 1/25/13 12:24 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/25/13 12:22 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 1/25/13 12:14 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Police respond, not prevent. We are constantly cutting down their budgets and making them cut personnel. Murder =/= Self Defense by definition.
Bull shit America is a Police State there are cops everywhere you look.
You can say that all you want, but until you turn this country into minority report police can't prevent crime. They can discourage, stop, and respond.

So I still don't see you logic. You can't prevent crime which is correct but you can become proactive by disarming the public and abolish guns. Once again an unarmed criminal is a less lethal criminal.


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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 25th, 2013 @ 12:46 AM Reply

At 1/24/13 11:40 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: It's predominately Gang Violence that equates to the vast majority of the shooting in America.

I'm not so sure about that one.

At 1/24/13 11:49 PM, LemonCrush wrote: 1) We're not talking about Gang Violence, but since you brought it up, gun violence and gangs seem to run most rampant in cities with the tightest gun laws, like NY and LA

The gun laws were created in response to the high amount of gun violence. Nice try, though.

2) It's literally impossible to stop a criminal from obtaining what they want. That's why they're criminals. They want something, drugs, alcohol during prohibition or whatever, and will hurt people to get it. This is an unstoppable fact of life. As such, it is better to allow people to defend themselves

The goal of such laws isn't to completely stop criminals. The lawmakers know that's not possible. The goal is to make it so hard for criminals to do a certain act that they either waste a lot of their resources on it, expose themselves to attention while trying to go out of their way to find it, or to make it so expensive and time consuiming that many criminals decide not to do it. When the country's gun violence numbers are in the tens of thousands, those three obstacles can make a HUGE dent.


3) Gun free zones do violate the moral code of allowing someone to protect themselves and/or their families. That's a right, don't ya think? Don't you tihnk that people have a right to protect themselves? The Constitution does. In fact, I'd say anyone, anywhere will agree that it is your right to defend your life and well-being.

Yeah, but if you reduce the amount of criminals with guns (which WILL happen with proper gun control) what is needed to protect one's family changes. And don't give me this "well, NYC has tough laws, but guns are still there" garbage. Their tough gun laws are sobtaged by the lack of state to state customs and other states willing to sell guns to anyone with cash, no questions asked. Until a US jurisidiction is able to have gun laws and a protected border from all other gun jurisdictions, and removes all prior guns, you cannot use that argument. It is completely stilted.

At 1/25/13 12:14 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Police respond, not prevent. We are constantly cutting down their budgets and making them cut personnel. Murder =/= Self Defense by definition.

Actually, legally, killing in self defense IS murder. It merely falls under the category of justifiable murder and thus carries no liability.

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Response to New York's Gun Ban Jan. 25th, 2013 @ 01:42 AM Reply

At 1/25/13 12:46 AM, Camarohusky wrote:
I'm not so sure about that one.

I am quite sure the stats prove that it is gang Violence that equates to the vast majority of the "homicide" in America. The question then becomes where do you get your stats from.
http://board.freedomainradio.com/forums/t/37933.aspx

Actually, legally, killing in self defense IS murder. It merely falls under the category of justifiable murder and thus carries no liability.

I would suspect that there are penalties for killing even if in self defense. If I was a Cop I would defiantly want to keep an eye on a certified killer no matter the situation. IMO if a person wants to carry a weapon then that is up to their discretion but they should also be under 24hr/365 surveillance and on a short leash with every Police agency Nation wide. Not only that the Police should know and always be updated where the gun is being properly stored in the gun owners home. Also the gun owner should have to foot the bill to pay for the extra Police resources to have them monitored.


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