Have you notice that this generation of games are easier beat? Reminber when you have to put effort into games like sonic or ninja gaiden? Now it only takes 30mins to beat the newer nfs and for dkc returns you can have the computer do the levels for you. Is the game industry so hung on graphic that they ignore everything else or what?

You can always play on hard mode.

Also, back then, game devs didnt know what the heck they were doing

At 12/26/12 05:02 PM, TheMajormel wrote: You can always play on hard mode.
Also, back then, game devs didnt know what the heck they were doing

This man speaks the truth! However I would like to elaborate on it further. It is a bit of a slap in the face to developers to say that they didn't know what they were doing back then. It was still a new industry, everyone was new. The innovations that they brought in though were amazing. At the same time though, the video games back then on the consoles, were competing with the arcades. Therefore they matched the difficulty of those games. You also got bang for your buck in terms of the replay value.

The difficulty hasn't really changed much, you have. Those who have played the past games are more seasoned. Therefore it is easy to breeze through most of these games, because we know the ins and outs. There are some games that do challenge us at certain points, but for the most part we know what we know.

If you have a wii u, pick up ninja gaiden razors edge, that's really hard! But yeah you are right, they dumbed it down ever since The days of the legendary NES and SNES. It's because developers realized dumb ass kids will play these games and dumbed it down for them.

Its because modern games took out the inferior lives feature and know have save points and understand its frustrating to start a entire game all over again because an asshole poorly placed bullet bill.

In fact most games like ninja gaiden were only hard because they were poorly designed.

Sonic 2 is easy, but it gets cheap and lame as shit when you reach the death egg. Remember the leaps of faith on the carrier? And the one hit KO fight with metal sonic? And if you died you started all over again?

I dont think games are getting easier, its just developers arent making stupid mistakes anymore. Well not mostly. The FPS genre as a whole has become a big joke.
Go play Rayman origins. Mmmm Rayman origins. I liked it better than Mario bros.

At 12/26/12 04:37 PM, tsukikomi wrote: Have you notice that this generation of games are easier beat? Now it only takes 30mins to beat the newer nfs and for dkc returns you can have the computer do the levels for you. Is the game industry so hung on graphic that they ignore everything else or what?

A lot of games simply have shortened singleplayer "campaigns." There's still plenty of games out there that are unforgiving and long.

You guys are right on them not making as much mistake but still the games are slower (ps all stars is a good example) and I tried that new forza and I say its worst then the newer nfs and theres the option to rewind from a crash or something which makes it too easy. I guess newer games can only be challenging if the programmers are newbies.

I do not know what you are talking about. Killing Floor is pretty hard even on normal difficulty even with a decent full team. l4d2 is Hell on expert.

At 12/26/12 08:31 PM, sweet21 wrote: Its because modern games took out the inferior lives feature and know have save points and understand its frustrating to start a entire game all over again because an asshole poorly placed bullet bill.

In fact most games like ninja gaiden were only hard because they were poorly designed.

Pretty much actually. You couldn't try the same level again, you had to complete the game without dying. You could only move in a very particular way depending on the limitations of the programming. However, games like Dark Souls are firm but fair. It's a struggle, but it isn't hard because of limitations, but rather because the enemies are designed to kick the shit out of you upon sight.

There are a multitude of factors why games {for the most part} are much easier than they were in the past, but the biggest reasons that I know of is that the game developers now know what they were doing when it comes to opponent AI and glitches in the games after so many trail-and-error attempts with games back in the 80's and 90's. Also, when online gaming became more popular, it seems like they spent less and less time on the one-player experience and more on the multiplayer, specifically with Halo and Call Of Duty, which is why so many single-player campaigns are so short in a lot of these games.
Finally, most gamers today grew up playing games on the NES/SNES/Genesis days, which means they are more able to breeze through the game much more today than in the past.

Of course, you still have games like Dark Souls and Ninja Gaiden out there that will challenge even the hardest of gamers, albeit because they are either heavily glitched/poorly designed, or simply cheap and unrewarding.

At 12/26/12 10:46 PM, orangebomb wrote: There are a multitude of factors why games {for the most part} are much easier than they were in the past, but the biggest reasons that I know of is that the game developers now know what they were doing when it comes to opponent AI and glitches in the games after so many trail-and-error attempts with games back in the 80's and 90's. Also, when online gaming became more popular, it seems like they spent less and less time on the one-player experience and more on the multiplayer, specifically with Halo and Call Of Duty, which is why so many single-player campaigns are so short in a lot of these games.

There are games today with retarded AI and old games with good AI, that has nothing to do with this, the reason that games are easier is because they're becoming more mainstream and commercialized and thus game developers have started to make games with the goal of appealing to a mainstream audience so they can get lots of money, so they hold your hand throughout the game and don't punish you for dying, turning games more and more into interactive movies.

Finally, most gamers today grew up playing games on the NES/SNES/Genesis days, which means they are more able to breeze through the game much more today than in the past.

Most games today can be be breezed through by any moderately skilled gamer regardless of whether they've played older games.

Of course, you still have games like Dark Souls and Ninja Gaiden out there that will challenge even the hardest of gamers, albeit because they are either heavily glitched/poorly designed, or simply cheap and unrewarding.

Yeah except that both of those games are excellently designed and have little glitches, and are some of the only worthwhile games this generation.

Besides, I don't want games to be as "hard" as they were in the arcade days where if you die 3 times or so you start right from the beginning again, that would suck and be tedious. It's okay to have a little challenge here and there, which many games still exhibit, but if you go overboard with it, it just becomes tedious.

-notsupergandhi64

At 12/26/12 06:45 PM, The-Great-One wrote: The difficulty hasn't really changed much, you have. Those who have played the past games are more seasoned. Therefore it is easy to breeze through most of these games, because we know the ins and outs. There are some games that do challenge us at certain points, but for the most part we know what we know.

This.

At 12/27/12 12:30 AM, DeIirium wrote:

At 12/26/12 10:46 PM, orangebomb wrote:

There are games today with retarded AI and old games with good AI, that has nothing to do with this,

Actually, it has a lot to do with this. Plus, I never said that all AI in old games being retarded, but a lot of it is, or at the very least predictable. Remember that back then, the majority of enimies were designed to be much tougher than the main character themselves, and that's not including glitches, bugs or anything like that, much of development was new to these guys, and it took the trail-and-error approach to find the balance between accessibility and challenge.

the reason that games are easier is because they're becoming more mainstream and commercialized and thus game developers have started to make games with the goal of appealing to a mainstream audience so they can get lots of money

And what's wrong with that? Making games more accessible only can only help gaming, and as I said, it's not like they aren't making difficult games today, never mind that most in them, they still have the option of hard/very hard difficulty modes either from the start or a certain point.

Most games today can be be breezed through by any moderately skilled gamer regardless of whether they've played older games.

To a degree, yes. But I have a hard time imagining that a first-time gamer playing Borderlands or God of War would breeze through those types of games. Having experience always helps.

Yeah except that both of those games are excellently designed and have little glitches, and are some of the only worthwhile games this generation.

Really? There are a lot more worthwhile games than that, and to say otherwise is simply doing a disservice to the gamers and the game industry as a whole. Plus, Ninja Gaiden wasn't exactly well designed, especially 3, and Dark Souls is an overrated game with limited appeal.

At 12/26/12 05:02 PM, TheMajormel wrote: You can always play on hard mode.

-old difficulties:
semi-easy
challenging
impossible

-new difficulties:
hyper easy
very easy
easy

Also, back then, game devs didnt know what the heck they were doing

and somehow, thy made better games

they were creative, now they just make crappy copies of a game that worked fine

At 12/27/12 08:48 PM, orangebomb wrote:

At 12/27/12 12:30 AM, DeIirium wrote:

At 12/26/12 10:46 PM, orangebomb wrote:

There are games today with retarded AI and old games with good AI, that has nothing to do with this,

Actually, it has a lot to do with this. Plus, I never said that all AI in old games being retarded, but a lot of it is, or at the very least predictable. Remember that back then, the majority of enimies were designed to be much tougher than the main character themselves, and that's not including glitches, bugs or anything like that, much of development was new to these guys, and it took the trail-and-error approach to find the balance between accessibility and challenge.

Enemies are supposed to be tougher than the player character, the player is supposed to defeat them with skill. Games where every enemy is weaker than the player character are boring. Infamous and Red dead redemption could have been enjoyable games, but I just found it tiring how your health keeps constantly coming back and you usually can't die unless you go out of your way to get yourself killed, even if that happens you start from right where you got killed with no penalty.

the reason that games are easier is because they're becoming more mainstream and commercialized and thus game developers have started to make games with the goal of appealing to a mainstream audience so they can get lots of money

And what's wrong with that? Making games more accessible only can only help gaming, and as I said, it's not like they aren't making difficult games today, never mind that most in them, they still have the option of hard/very hard difficulty modes either from the start or a certain point.

Most games I have played this generation are easy even on the harder difficulty settings. Many great game series have been ruined due to the quest to make games more mainstream. Silent Hill, Devil May cry, and Resident evil are nowhere near as good as they used to be.

Yeah except that both of those games are excellently designed and have little glitches, and are some of the only worthwhile games this generation.

Really? There are a lot more worthwhile games than that, and to say otherwise is simply doing a disservice to the gamers and the game industry as a whole. Plus, Ninja Gaiden wasn't exactly well designed, especially 3, and Dark Souls is an overrated game with limited appeal.

I was talking about Ninja Gaiden 1. I'd like to know what exactly was the problem with the design of that game, the action is incredibly smooth and success mainly depends on smart combat strategies. Ninja Gaiden 3 is just another bullshit attempt to make a series more accessible and ruining it in the process.
Dark Souls is an excellent game, I don't really see what problem you have with it.

At 12/27/12 03:06 AM, SneakyGameBoy wrote:

At 12/26/12 06:45 PM, The-Great-One wrote: The difficulty hasn't really changed much, you have. Those who have played the past games are more seasoned. Therefore it is easy to breeze through most of these games, because we know the ins and outs. There are some games that do challenge us at certain points, but for the most part we know what we know.

This.

I have noticed that games I thought were really tough as a kid are easier now that I'm older, that is true. Just like everything seemed bigger and badder when you were a kid. I still say that the old NES/SNES games are harder than their modern counterparts as a whole, though.

At 12/28/12 09:29 PM, dragoswrath wrote: It's called hard mode. Try it.

organic difficulty or a set of challenges made for games to get around the diefualt difficulty balancing seem pretty ideal

After playing both Megaman 9 and 10, I would say "no". Mario has gotten easier. I hate how Nintendo thought giving so many lives was a good idea.

At 12/26/12 06:45 PM, The-Great-One wrote: The difficulty hasn't really changed much, you have.

That just plain isn't true. Games are easy as shit to beat compared to older games. Not because I've gotten better, but just because they are easier. Of course, there are still games that are still difficult, but most games are extremely dumbed down. I almost always start new games on hard mode because on normal I'll just blast through with tons of money and nothing to spend it on, or lots of health packs and no damage to heal. But every now and then I'll start up an old game, pick hard mode, and get a quick reminder that games used to actually be difficult.
I think the biggest change is lives. Before, if you died 3 times you had to start over, at the very least from the start of the level. Now you've always got a checkpoint 10 feet behind you to go back to even after you've died a hundred times. Sure it's frustrating to have to start over, but anything that's difficult can be frustrating. But at the same time, they took away any sense of accomplishment you get from beating a game.
Being able to finish a game isn't a measure of skill anymore, it's a measure of free time.

mostly because they realized people of this gen want fast and easy stuff, and they want to spread their market so instead of restricting games to smart people or people with skills, now they sell games to every idiot who cant thing a strategy of their own. plus they save themselves the task of creative development and just make games with a pre-made skeleton

At 12/26/12 10:46 PM, orangebomb wrote:

Of course, you still have games like Dark Souls and Ninja Gaiden out there that will challenge even the hardest of gamers, albeit because they are either heavily glitched/poorly designed, or simply cheap and unrewarding.

Forgot Devil May Cry

No they didn't get dumbed down games have just became more accessible outside the hardcore martyrs who love to play hair ripping games.

At 12/26/12 08:31 PM, sweet21 wrote: Its because modern games took out the inferior lives feature and know have save points and understand its frustrating to start a entire game all over again because an asshole poorly placed bullet bill.
In fact most games like ninja gaiden were only hard because they were poorly designed.
I dont think games are getting easier, its just developers arent making stupid mistakes anymore. Well not mostly. The FPS genre as a whole has become a big joke.
Go play Rayman origins. Mmmm Rayman origins. I liked it better than Mario bros.

I have to agree with sweet. Poor design or coding made and still makes some games difficult, infuriating even.
Rayman Origins is somewhat tough, in fact I find games aimed towards kids to be tougher than adult oriented games sometimes. (I do mean games that are originally games and not games based on TV shows, movies, etc.)
You might also try downloadable games; Super Meat Boy and Geometry Wars are tough games, not due to poor design however.
Mario Bros. on the other hand just keeps adding more unnecessary stuff just to make the games harder.

New Super Mario Bros. is the COD of Nintendo.

Wolverine death soldier isn't good design either.

At 12/28/12 09:29 PM, dragoswrath wrote: It's called hard mode. Try it.

Rarely makes a difference. All the recent games I've re-played on hard don't have a noticeable difference with normal difficulty. Meanwhile in Civ 2 you raise the difficulty by 1 and all of a sudden you can't steamroll civilizations early on with mere Legion anymore.

At 12/30/12 10:59 PM, tyler2513 wrote: That's because back then the developers weren't really expecting their games to be big hits or for anyone to play it so long they could actually complete it.

Quite the contrary. It was actually because games back then games were still anywhere from $40-$50 and the hardware didn't allow developers to make super massive games. They had to work with limitations so people felt they got their money's worth. Nobody wanted to buy a game they could beat in 10 minutes. So they compensated with insane difficulty or 'padding'.

At 12/31/12 01:03 AM, sweet21 wrote: It was actually because games back then games were still anywhere from $40-$50 and the hardware didn't allow developers to make super massive games. Nobody wanted to buy a game they could beat in 10 minutes. So they compensated with insane difficulty or 'padding'.

And games today cost $50-$60 are majority of them are easy.

At 12/31/12 02:24 PM, tsukikomi wrote:

At 12/31/12 01:03 AM, sweet21 wrote: It was actually because games back then games were still anywhere from $40-$50 and the hardware didn't allow developers to make super massive games. Nobody wanted to buy a game they could beat in 10 minutes. So they compensated with insane difficulty or 'padding'.

And games today cost $50-$60 are majority of them are easy.

Again, not really easier, just better designed, for the most part. Games now a days dont have to compensate anymore, the hardware is there to make massive worlds and lots of levels. Games like Skyrim are well worth the money.

I suppose from a design standpoint open world games have to be easier. You can at least hand them that. As far as more linear games their difficulty can be whatever they choose to be.
Some modern games however take the hardware too seriously and focus on set pieces to be more cinematic. I suppose this is what you mean. Scripted events you cant really lose unless you die on purpose.

As a whole though, its same as back them. Some games are hard, some games are not. Mario has definitely been dumbed down, they think all their players have down syndrome or something, but, not everything else.

Lotta the games are focused on multiplayer.

And a lotta the FPS games are only "easier" cuz of the unlimited respawns. Kids today also get so frustrated about checkpoints that there's like 1500 checkpoints per level.

Well hey, I guess you're right.

Especially when you consider Atari games. Those games were IMPOSSIBLE.

It's gotten to the point that I start games on normal mode so that the game can be at least a bit of a challenge. Even then I tend to beat them in the space of 2 days. I remember when easy mode was quite a challenge.