At 7/9/07 06:58 PM, WadeFulp wrote:
Are you really this dumb? What concert did you attend that ddn't have tens of thousands of cars parked outside? Geeez.

dumb? excuse me, I didn't throw any insults at you.

And no, I don't see any cars at the concerts I go to, and I go to a lot of concerts. I don't even see a crazy amount of traffic, besides the normal traffic in Times Square. Sorry, but people don't drive around here, and even people who come from upstate take Metro North.

At 7/9/07 06:58 PM, Zerostar wrote:

At 7/9/07 06:56 PM, BoogieWookie wrote: Are there any plans to make Newgrounds Offices green?

Speaking of the NG office, I'd like to visit. I already know how to get there ;)

Pretty creepy.

At 7/9/07 06:56 PM, BoogieWookie wrote: You do not need to build plants for solar power to work. Attach 24x24 meter panels to all houses and make them zero energy. I have three of these panels and I have a $4,000 dollar computer and a 70 HD Plasma flatscreen. For a person to use all this it just means compromise.

Mind telling us how much a 24x24 meter anel costs? BTW, that's 78x78 feet. My house and propery doesn't have the room for something that big, most homes don't. You say you have tree of these panels to run your house. Considering most people don't have room for one, how would they manage 3? Also what does that do for the vegetation? If everyone had 3 panels like that it would cover up the grass, trees, gardens, etc. It would be a wasteland of solar panels. Also it would block heat from reaching the ground, and homes, which could have adverse effects, or require more power to heat a home since the sunlight is blocked.

Sure, you can make it work for you, but it probably isn't the solution on a wide scale.

Also I asume you have large batteries on site that these solar panels recharge so you have power through the night and when there isn't much sun? How much did the batteries cost, and how often do they need to be replaced? What do they do with the bad cells? What was involved with making those cells? Where is the toxic waste that was generated in the construction of you panels?

Again, how much did it cost? $100,000? $200,000? If heard quotes on smaller panels to be $40,000. Think everyone has that kind of money to blow on solar panels?

At 7/9/07 07:02 PM, Zerostar wrote: And no, I don't see any cars at the concerts I go to, and I go to a lot of concerts. I don't even see a crazy amount of traffic, besides the normal traffic in Times Square. Sorry, but people don't drive around here, and even people who come from upstate take Metro North.

Well, then that's your area, but it's not like that most places. Most places don't have mass transportation like NY City. Maybe NY City has enough people coming to concerts from in the city, but I bet you people are driving and parking in nearby parking garages, then taking trains and buses in. Or they are driving to bus stations and train stations outside of the ciy. My wife goes to NYC to see plays sometimes, it's a 40 minute drive to a bus station.

Agreed. Although events like Live Aid have really shown people the extremes of poverty around the world and raised huge amounts of money towards charities, Live Earth did absolutely nothing but tell us what we already knew. And the TV coverage was bull shit as well.

"Here's this awesome band who can't even be bothered to remind everyone why they're here"

2.5 songs later.....

"Now we'll abruptly end this coverage and send you over to Swaglumbiarina where John Bumblebee and the Tiddlywinks are going to play a 5 hour set".

Wade, you can be cool sometimes. But now your acting like a jackass IMO.

At 7/9/07 07:06 PM, WadeFulp wrote: Well, then that's your area, but it's not like that most places. Most places don't have mass transportation like NY City. Maybe NY City has enough people coming to concerts from in the city, but I bet you people are driving and parking in nearby parking garages, then taking trains and buses in. Or they are driving to bus stations and train stations outside of the ciy. My wife goes to NYC to see plays sometimes, it's a 40 minute drive to a bus station.

But it's really not an issue of transportation, Wade. The issue is still, if you're a conservationist musician, what are you going to do? What are your options, other than to ask everyone to conserve, especially since it's within your power? I've already illustrated that hosting web concerts and whatnot might not be feasible, because the bands need the money to survive.

And please, Wade, apologize for calling me dumb. It was uncalled for.

At 7/9/07 07:07 PM, HappyCheeseGuy wrote: Agreed. Although events like Live Aid have really shown people the extremes of poverty around the world and raised huge amounts of money towards charities, Live Earth did absolutely nothing but tell us what we already knew. And the TV coverage was bull shit as well.

Sure, some of the concerts do good. When they raise money to fight a problem, that's a result and it isn't hypocritical.

Some more points I forgot;

5 - Nuclear power plants produce the worst kind of pollution - radiation, in the form of use up isotopes that must be buried somewhere or dumped into the deep blue sea as we have no other way to contain them.

6 - Name a single household name artist who created their career by going online and using it, tv and radio. But never performing live (except on the three I just mentioned) anywhere. It is hard on artists to make money online, it seems it is much easier to go to a concert to get paid. You have to eat after all. I am sure your dream on NG wasn't the pop-up ads and porn links when you first started. But you moved on, got better with time.

7 - In all of your argument you have made a few attempts at a solutions but these were more in the forms of rants. Than practical alternatives.

I propose a solution.
Lets find some places on the www which could use a good flash about environmentalism and make a competition about who can make a good one that can be shared online. This field is more yours so I have to guess a solution. You know the mechanics better than I.

It all boils down to good intentions, bad execution.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm waiting for cellardoor6 to come and tell us (in 8192 characters) about how not only does the United States not make pollution, but how we actually pump pure magical energy into the air that cures cancer, and all other countries should be goddamned grateful for our courtesy.

Good entertainment.

At 7/9/07 07:04 PM, WadeFulp wrote: Mind telling us how much a 24x24 meter anel costs? BTW, that's 78x78 feet.

I assume he meant 24'x24', but regardless, the costs of solar panels have dropped dramatically in the last few years. There's a hell of a lot of research going on in order to make them more affordable and efficient, consider that fifty years ago we didn't even have transistors, now there's millions of them in one computer chip.

Good point. But, was the entire thing about the lights?

At 7/9/07 07:04 PM, WadeFulp wrote:

At 7/9/07 06:56 PM, BoogieWookie wrote: You do not need to build plants for solar power to work. Attach 24x24 meter panels to all houses and make them zero energy. I have three of these panels and I have a $4,000 dollar computer and a 70 HD Plasma flatscreen. For a person to use all this it just means compromise.

Mind telling us how much a 24x24 meter anel costs? BTW, that's 78x78 feet. My house and propery doesn't have the room for something that big, most homes don't. You say you have tree of these panels to run your house. Considering most people don't have room for one, how would they manage 3? Also what does that do for the vegetation? If everyone had 3 panels like that it would cover up the grass, trees, gardens, etc. It would be a wasteland of solar panels. Also it would block heat from reaching the ground, and homes, which could have adverse effects, or require more power to heat a home since the sunlight is blocked.

Sure, you can make it work for you, but it probably isn't the solution on a wide scale.

Also I asume you have large batteries on site that these solar panels recharge so you have power through the night and when there isn't much sun? How much did the batteries cost, and how often do they need to be replaced? What do they do with the bad cells? What was involved with making those cells? Where is the toxic waste that was generated in the construction of you panels?

Again, how much did it cost? $100,000? $200,000? If heard quotes on smaller panels to be $40,000. Think everyone has that kind of money to blow on solar panels?

I got the three panels with an tax write off, plus a proposal and they came to around $146,000 that I am paying off per monther after $20,000 down. I worked hard for my money and invested in this because of the longterm money I am saving on power. I do not pay for heat or eletricity. Each panel adorns the hill behind my concrete and berm house. The batteries I salvaged from a local dump after they were dumped from Ginna a nuclear power plant, for just the cost of picking them up. Each battery takes three days to charge, is able to provide 18 hours of continuous power to the house. I have four batteries. But I do not use power all the time.

Solar panels and batteries with repairs will last me about 30 years. I know how to repair them, plus soon my neighbors might pay to use my power or create a grid within our area. I taught my family how to changes the panels. Battery fixing is another problem, that you need to read a lot on how to do, also potentially dangerous, nothing is free however.

Panels this big, do block wind and sunlight to reach certain areas, but you work around it such as putting vegatables that can thrive in that position under the panel. My house is heated just fine and retains heat fine due to its design.

The panels toxic waste was converted into a sludge. Then sent off to be recycled at a plant that can still use parts or the mixture. The part that makes me sad is that not all of it can be saved but it is stored properly. In 5 years they will have a way to use the waste. Bad cells can be repaired to still produce energy, abeit a dramatically lower level.

I think people who are smart and achieve can make enough money to become users of enviromentally friendly power. In the future I see communities becoming self sufficent to have grids. Places can have solar power without the panels and utilized mirrors and molten salt you gain more power than regular panels, but the prices is higher.

At 7/9/07 07:15 PM, jonthomson wrote:

At 7/9/07 07:04 PM, WadeFulp wrote: Mind telling us how much a 24x24 meter anel costs? BTW, that's 78x78 feet.

I assume he meant 24'x24', but regardless, the costs of solar panels have dropped dramatically in the last few years. There's a hell of a lot of research going on in order to make them more affordable and efficient, consider that fifty years ago we didn't even have transistors, now there's millions of them in one computer chip.

Check the research of Biodiesel. It will be cheaper than ethanol, because you can pump long narrow tanks full of starved algae, multiplied by thousands of tubes in warehouses to make it.

For other ways to make power people can use the steam from desalination plants to make energy and fresh water which most of the world will be needing soon.

Alot of normal people are impressionible, so if they start to see the celebraties they look up to promoting products good for the enviroment, they'll use them.

So I think that even if they are hypocrites, at least they're being helpful.

Fact 1: The only way for an artist to make money now adays with illegal downloading all over the world is to appear at concerts.

Fact 2: If the music is available to be bought online, it is also available to be downloaded THE PIRATE WAY.

Conclusion: If an artist stops touring, they will soon become very poor.

On the other hand, they will piss off some Wade Fulp guy somewhere from the USA... it's hard to say whether they'd keep touring to earn money and satisfy MILLIONS OF FANS, or if they'd stop touring, quit earning money, give up their music BUT satisfy one Wade. It's "really" hard to tell, it sure is.

-

Hey, I sure get what you mean with what you're saying, but don't we rather have artists who says "Consume less" than hell bound fuckers who keeps smashing their guitars each show and burns a massive amount of fireworks during their wicked concerts?

I am aware of that what these people are doing is something that Hilary does in "The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" show, in one episode she's planning to be driving a bus around the city, demonstrating against pollution and ending the day with a huge bonfire at the beach. But we're all hypocrites sometime, even if we don't know it.

You're co-running this huge site which draws the attention of millions of people, who spends more hours in front of the computer than they've ever did, thanks to this site. Don't you think that these artists could be criticizing you?

"He's running a huge site on the Internet where millions of people spend their time while wasting electricity, only so that he can tell others that consumption is bad!"

I heard that the concert itself wasn't half bad.

Some guys on WYSP (I forget which show) were talking about Live Earth this morning... it was pretty hilarious. The main points they made, between all the jokes, were (1) that the musicians don't actually give a damn about the environment, and just want to promote themselves, (2) that the concert actually contributed to "global warming" because of transportation, celebrities flying around in private jets, etc., and (3) that there's no fucking reason to have this concert in the first place, because we don't need to raise awareness about "global warming," because everyone hears enough about it already.

At 7/9/07 08:32 PM, subpar wrote: ...I forget which show...

On second thought, I think it was The Barsky Show.

I feel so exhilirated! =O

Wade replied to a post of mine! ^_^ Hooray! Anywho.

What about the whole recycling thing. If everything does go electronic someday, could we possibly convert old forms of currency into fuel for tomorrow? Hydrogen and Bio-diesel are making the scene, and the Pride station down the street from me is selling bio-diesel now. In my sight, I see recycling as not a solution, but at least something to prolong our lifespan of ourselves and the planet. I try not to use vehicles or cell phones [cell phones emit harmful frequencies which drive honeybees away, and we've got like a 70% drop in population of the little buggers.]
Linky.

Alot of things people do for others blinds them to the small things affected by their product's use. We need more life-friendly ideas that don't kill species just so you can order a pizza from your car. I'm not saying go and be a hobo, but think of solutions which could help not only you, but the Earth as whole.

At 7/9/07 08:22 PM, Andersson wrote: You're co-running this huge site which draws the attention of millions of people, who spends more hours in front of the computer than they've ever did, thanks to this site. Don't you think that these artists could be criticizing you?

"He's running a huge site on the Internet where millions of people spend their time while wasting electricity, only so that he can tell others that consumption is bad!"

Again, you and others are missing the point. It's fine with me if musicians have concerts, live in mansions, drive gas guzzling cars. I have no problem with that. However, when they use so many resources, much more than the average person, don't fucking tell ME and others to conserve when they don't conserve themselves. THAT'S the point I was making.

Why people keep bringing me and Newgrounds into this is a mystery. I'm not telling people to conserve power by not using their computer. I"m not preaching for other websites to stop running pop ups, showing porn, etc.

At 7/9/07 08:22 PM, Andersson wrote: Fact 1: The only way for an artist to make money now adays with illegal downloading all over the world is to appear at concerts.

That's an overblown opinion, not a fact, and you know it.

At 7/9/07 08:47 PM, Grammer wrote: We need to do more to help our Earth, and we can't just sit there are say "oh, it's not our fault, the millions of gallons of gasoline poured into the air every day isn't hurting us". I know you haven't said that specifically, but we should all be on board with the whole "cut down on green house gas" message. That's why I enjoyed the Live Earth concert.

I'm all for coming up with cleaner energy sources, etc. The problem is we just don't know what the right thing to do is. We could reduce emissions and learn that it triggered an ice age that could have been avoided if only we kept doing what we were doing.

I can tell you one thing this bio fuel made from corn isn't good. Farmers are choosing to grow more corn now to sell as fuel, instead of FOOD. In South America they will slash and burn more rain forrests to grow corn, for fuel. Coffee prices, tequia prices, etc, are going up because people are switching their crops to corn. Eventually other crops will be worth more because we'll be paying through the nose to buy coffee, tequila, or whatever, and it will be profitable for farmers to grow more.

Also more corn for fuel means higher corn prices which means higher feed prices for farmers feeding pigs, cows, etc that eat corn.

Burning our food supply = bad. It would be better to suck oil out from the Earth and burn that before clearing out trees to grow corn and ruin the top soil from corn, corn, corn. Farmers may stop rotating crops to keep producing corn if there is enough demand, which is harder on the soil.

Now they are also finding they can make bio fuel from algae, which may be a better option. Especially if they can grow it on land that isn't useful for anything else, or even in the ocean.

MASTER WADE I HAVE RETURNED LET ME HANDLE THESE INCOMPENTANCE AND RID THEM OF THIS THREAD!

What Wade's getting at is a good view. They're hypocrites, none the less. How can you tell people to concerve, when they do more damage hosting a concert?

At 7/9/07 07:02 PM, Zerostar wrote: dumb? excuse me, I didn't throw any insults at you.

BTW, sorry to call you dumb, but saying people don't drive in mass to concerts is just silly. Sure, there are probably exceptions, but not in most places. Check this out, just some random page I pulled up:

http://www.wrx900.com/Ohio%20Dave.htm

Many people go on "road trips" to see their favorite bands. DMB especially pulls in a lot of people, and he was at the Live Earth concert. The final picture on the page comments on all the people driving in to see DMB.

oooh intresting Master good find!! im looking at wiki right now about live earth and doing alot of Google

back to the original live earth topic, honestly, i only watched the thing because of everything else BUT the concerts. well yeah it was cool, music to help the earth and all that crap, but the waste of electricity, gas, and all the junk food rests left in all of the places is just too much polution to not counter the cause, they contaminated more than they helped the enviroment by changing people's minds... honestly many people went to the concert because of the music not because "they wanted to help the cause"

the only things i apreciated from the whole event were those animations about climate change, they really got to me, they were really well done, and i think they worked more that the actual concerts, i didnt hear many inspiring words from the artists at the concerts, it felt pretty much like an ormal concert, i was also expecting it to be kinda energy saver, but it seemed as big and expensive with all those big lights and screens and crap as other concerts without cause : P

oh well, i hope they kinda change that and live earth becomes more enviromental friendly next year, im with wade : P

At 7/9/07 07:33 PM, BoogieWookie wrote: I got the three panels with an tax write off, plus a proposal and they came to around $146,000 that I am paying off per monther after $20,000 down.

While I applaud your efforts and think what your doing is way cool, I rest my case. Most people don't have that kind of money to invest, or the technical know how to maintain such a system. If someone had to pay out of pocket for solar panel repairs, battery repairs, new batteries, etc, I think it would be hard to come out ahead. Right now it takes someone like you to make it happen, but hopefully in a few years the technology will get cheaper, cleaner, and more user friendly.

My electric bills have gone up lately, largely due to higher gas prices, etc. Let's say I pay an average of $200 per month, so over the coarse of 30 years, I'd spend $72,000 on energy. That's half of what you've spent just on the panels, so the investment wouldn't make sense for me, other than to do my part to help conserve. Even if energy prices continue to rise, it would be hard to come out ahead with current solar panel pricing.

Also my yard isn't large enough to support 3 panels that size, even if I put them on my roof I doubt I could do it. Not everyone has that kind of open space.

since im too young to help the cause significantly, i just make simple actions like turn the AC off early in the morning and on way later in the night, turn off light when not in use, also the computer take short showers... oh and i actually convinced my parents to go walking somewhere instead of using the car :P

i also have that *help code in my nickname in MSN, for the I'M campaign against global warming... doesnt help much i know :P