well I understand this was a tragic event, where many innocent people died. Now this guy has come along and created a poorly made game and put it on newgrounds. I find it to be nothing new. The only big difference is the significance of timing. After all, lets take, The Titanic. Many innocent people died b/c of the ignorance of men and their in ability to think that the ship could sink. Now we have have crappy movies and even crappier video games about it. I am willing to bet that if people tried to, if it was possible, make some sort of light hearted joke or entertainment by re-living the event people would have been outraged at that time. But look, here we are all these years later and its a blockbuster event, and made into crappy video games. And not one person complains, why? Because so much time has passed that it has become a non-sensitive issue with all those people dying.

Yes I am aware that people shot at a school is different then a ship crashing and sinking, however the example is that people, many people, died and it was a very emotional and tragic event.

My point is simple. When enough time has passed, that will allow this to become non-personal, and non-emotiona,l stuff like this will be given no more attention.

I am not taking the content material to offense here. It really is freedom of expression. The only problem that I had with the game is that game play itself was uninteresting, and overall, just frustrating.

At 5/16/07 04:00 PM, ZyklonB wrote: oh yeah its $1000 to get it off and $3000 to get an apology?

Extortion much?

Crazy Australian Shock Jock and his radio show

I think he was just making a point asking for money. Say 3000 people are offended by the game and rather than go on forums and complain about it they each send him a dollar, not alot of money. He deletes the game and appologises, problem solved. However the same people who are in the forums outraged who want the game deleted do nothing when given the chance to solve the problem. Why? because they don't want to give into him and give him the money. In the same way he doesn't want to give in to them and delete the game.

Newgrounds, expect the worst.

I could understand at least if this game had some kind of point to make, but instead its just a shitty game using the murders was a gimmick.

Its not freedom of speech, the idiot isnt even saying anything, freedom of speech is a bullshit buzz word people use to get away with pissing people off.

Any why the hell would you say "If you dont like it dont watch it", you might as well say "If you dont like people killing other people dont watch the news".

This is an offensive peice of crap which has no reason to exsist other than to piss of people who care and to allow people who dont care act like assholes and feel all good about themselves afterwards.

I say take it down not for being offensive but for being trivial bulls**t that has no point to make and is just some guy trying to make money off of newgrounds

I don't think it should be taken down, but these people have to be careful. This clearly caused alot of controversy on Newgrounds and I warned the author of V-Tech rampage about that in my review of his game.

I loved the game. Leave it on.

I HAVE A WUNDURFUL IDEA!

QUIT YOUR BITCHING!

At 5/16/07 04:18 PM, darthnebula wrote: Any why the hell would you say "If you dont like it dont watch it", you might as well say "If you dont like people killing other people dont watch the news".

I wasn't aware that the news went out and killed people. Otherwise, yes, I tell people that don't like to watch things about people killing each other to not watch the news.

This is an offensive peice of crap which has no reason to exsist other than to piss of people who care and to allow people who dont care act like assholes and feel all good about themselves afterwards.

See: The Bastards Collection.

I say take it down not for being offensive but for being trivial bulls**t that has no point to make and is just some guy trying to make money off of newgrounds

Then lets remove all the flash here at Newgrounds. Isn't it all trivial bullshit that has no point? Many of the artists here use NG to get exposure and subsequently, remuneration for their hobby.

At 5/16/07 04:18 PM, darthnebula wrote: I could understand at least if this game had some kind of point to make, but instead its just a shitty game using the murders was a gimmick.

Its not freedom of speech, the idiot isnt even saying anything, freedom of speech is a bullshit buzz word people use to get away with pissing people off.

Any why the hell would you say "If you dont like it dont watch it", you might as well say "If you dont like people killing other people dont watch the news".

This is an offensive peice of crap which has no reason to exsist other than to piss of people who care and to allow people who dont care act like assholes and feel all good about themselves afterwards.

I say take it down not for being offensive but for being trivial bulls**t that has no point to make and is just some guy trying to make money off of newgrounds

Yes but he can piss people off if he wishes. When did it become wrong to piss people off. Its just the whole mentality that my emotions are so important that anyone who causes me to be upset or mad is wrong. I always find it hilarious that once people find out about something that they know they will find offensive, instead of leaving it alone they run to watch it. Why? So they can bitch about it. People want to be offended and upset. So they can complain that someone offended them and made them upset.

You think that people do not have the right to do things that you find offensive. is this game offensive to me, yes. Do I think that I should play a game that simulates the events in VT, no. So did I go look at the game, and play it, no. Why would I? I know what its about, I know I will not find it entertaining and I do not want to condone such actions. So I don't go to it. Simple isn't it. I do not wish to get upset by it, so I don't view it.

This is not like a crime being committed in front of my face that I have no choice to view. I have a choice to not be apart of this.

It's a game based on a horrible tragedy; I mean sure the theme is bad, but so what? Don't wanna play it because you think its bad, then don't play it. But who's to say he can't make it? It's not illegal to do that. Maybe the copyright thing could get him in trouble, but freedom of press... he's just making a game. I'm not for this game, but I'm not against it, and everyone is over reacting.

This is fucking ridiculous.

The game should be taken down -- not because I disapprove of freedom of expression, or because I disapprove of violent computer games. It's because this game is a shitty use of freedom of expression. If this is what "freedom of speech" means to teenagers, the world is more pathetic than I thought. Long story short, the author is an asshole. He only made the shitty game for shock-value, because he knew it would offend people... and now he wants us to pay him to take it down?

The admins of this site have the power to take it down, anyway. I say trash it. Let him upload it again in a few years, after those affected by the tragedy have had time to deal with it. In the meantime, he can try making the game good. Because right now, it kind of fucking sucks.

By the way, if anyone replies to this post with "he has the right to make an offensive game" bullshit, I won't be responding. This isn't about the first amendment, it's about good taste. The fans of the game have none.

I think it should be left up.

Reason

Freedom of speech

true, PigPen is a sick person for even making that, but hey freedom of speech is stronger.

At 5/16/07 04:37 PM, ToasterDemon wrote: nevvvermind my post. I just realized it was sarcasm :/

Some people are so crazy, sorry toast, you tried your best :)

Freedom of Speech does not exist on the internet in a site that does a public service.

There is no freedom of speech. What the admins want is what happens.

And once again.

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

If you don't want the game to remain here, you're only giving it more hits by talking about it, you're also giving the man more exposure, AND you're making his site more popular. If you hate this dude SO MUCH, PICK YOUR ASS UP AND GET OF THE SUBJECT.

Move on, stop talking about, and pretend it doesn't exist. Because if you don't talk about it, it won't exist. Stop acting like retards and move on. There are millions of other flashes on Newgrounds, why care about one fucking game.

And even if this game get removed from newgrounds, it'll still exist in other places. I'm sure each and every one of you sheep would continue to visit pigPens website to send hatemail or whatever.

delete that shit. dont let people pay him to take it down.

It's gone too far, dealing with a tragedy like this it's not ethically right to compose a game which sees through the eyes of the killer. Even a regional newspaper here in norway has now decided to print an article about it.
Dagbladet.no (It's in norwegian, but you'll see it's about the game)
I say take it down, as this doesn't serve any good.

Looks like the news of hte game hit swedens largest newspaper... of course, a few minor errors and no mentioning what site it can be found at, but ppl will find it of course.

Funny, that newspaper is always happy about linking to youtube or other sites... why not NG. Bastards.

Regarding the game, I feel what Ross said about the viewer being in charge (one can close the window) is completley correct, it's been a big deal out of this because of the media, and hey, can't blame the guy for trying to make some profit out of it. Even though it might be immoral, I don't see media being moral about stuff anyway... They spawned alot of monsters, so yeah.

Your all doing exactly what he planned; he wants to be famous for a big controversy. And your all just feeding it. He's in fucking newspapers. This is more than he could of asked for. Just let it go, your fueling his fire.

Am I the only one that thinks PigPen created this game to get publicity and get noticed? Maybe, he had it planned and knew this would happen if he created this game..but hey these haters are making...his work...famous.

:/

At 5/16/07 05:21 PM, Rudy wrote: Am I the only one that thinks PigPen created this game to get publicity and get noticed? Maybe, he had it planned and knew this would happen if he created this game..but hey these haters are making...his work...famous.

/

nop, i already posted just like your topic. this was just his plan. and ng and the papers are all giving him his attention. I totally agree with you, pjew, finally someone who knows why he did this

At 5/16/07 04:49 PM, subpar wrote: By the way, if anyone replies to this post with "he has the right to make an offensive game" bullshit, I won't be responding. This isn't about the first amendment, it's about good taste. The fans of the game have none.

I think free speech extends to the least funny jokes about the holocaust. It passed judgement. It's not for newgrounds to decide what is acceptable quality in free speech.

Although it is currently rather anti-pornography, but I would accept porn a different to mocking tragedy, however poorly.

Newgrounds does not and should not bend to the moral majority; this would be the first time Newgrounds would have caved in to large-scale moral outrage (copyright and porn are different), and Newgrounds would lose a lot of its integrity for doing so. Do you think Ebaumsworld or Albinobalcksheep (hate to bring those up) or even Youtube would delete something merely because it was offensive towards a tragedy? Like, Newgrounds should have a similar moral code to Ogrish did when it existed, or Mydeathspace; this is stuff, and it's interesting, and the public have a right to see it and decide whether or not it's offensive in their own heads, and quality has absolutely nothing to do with it.

In a few years time Virginia Tech would be old hat and that game would be nothing; he wanted to make a game about killing people in this particular tragedy, and Newgrounds is the place to host it, and Newgrounds should be pleased about being the place to host it.

Edmund Macmillan, anyone? Far more people have lost kids in childbirth than have lost people in V-tech, yet thisisacryforhelp was the first place I heard dead baby jokes.

Pico and Columbine RPG are better quality admittedly but they're essentially of the same essence - isn't violence fun? Isn't killing your classmates entertaining?

Yeah, fuck the quality, it's not good enough to save it to my faves and normally I'd save stuff like this to my faves, but it should definitely stay, and I'm willing to argue far better than the creator would ever be bothered arguing to say as such.

I'd imagine it's gonna stay. Wade and Tom are definitely anti-censorship, and much props to them for sticking to their guns (or even whoring off such a position) as many times as they have.

At 5/15/07 06:48 PM, RyanKajito wrote: People don't realize it's a fucking flash game made by a fucking random person on the internet. It's not like thousands of African children are going to be slayed because he made that game.

thats the best point made on this whole topic. not to mention its lol-able

it's an ok game Ross but I don't think Tom needs any new School shooting hate mail at this point
so it should be taken down

Leave it up! This shouldn't even be a topic.

He has the right to put the VT game up. Im not saying that its the right thing to do, but he can and did. People are complaining that he is using that event to make money, but what have the other companies done? What of the World war and vietnam and other similar events. There are games on it and people died in those wars. What about them. Just cause this was more recent it should be treated any different from those events? There are so many things besides a bad game that took or is taking advantage of a tragedy. Why not pull those down aswell? Think about it.

I think the consequences of leaving it up are far worse. NG is going to get really negative publicity out of it if it's left there for all to see.

Meanwhile, it's not an issue of freedom of speech. People are comparing this game to Pico's School... that's a terrible comparison, because in Pico you're shooting the evil goths with magic powers that slaughter the whole school. You're not massacring innocent people in a recreation of a real, terrible, and recent event. People are still hurt over the V-Tech shooting, and will be for a long time. It's not about "freedom of speech." This is not a legal debate. This is about what this website is going to stand for. People talk about the responses Club a Seal and the teletubbies game received... Well, those were again not based on a real event.

How do you think the relatives and friends of those killed in the massacre are going to feel when news of this gets around? Is it really worth the pain this is going to cause people? It's not illegal, but it's downright despicable. And I don't think this is the kind of thing Newgrounds wants to stand for. It's not about violence in games, it's not about freedom of speech... It's just that this asshole made a game out of a recent tragedy and put it on this website. Is this the kind of thing we want here? I certainly don't think it's worth it.

It should be delted, and I hope it will be.

Granted, the freedom of speech and expression don't mean we can do and say whatever we darn well want. For example, walk up to some unsuspecting soul and start yelling at him, saying you're going to kill him and it's going to be really nasty and really slow. Then when he gets angry or downright mortified just smile and say calmly "What's wrong? I was just expressing my freedom of speech and expression."

Yeah, the game in question is riddled with bugs and the concept is just plain wrong. At least in Pico's School, the lead character is just trying to save his own hide and elminimate the enemies, but Pico isn't just going on a mindless rampage to kill people and then commit suicide. Come on... And the author will take it down if he gets enough money? That's not ethical in the least.

All this in a nutshell= BLAM!

It's not going. PigPen himself said so, and the admins don't care.

Wade, you have a point bashing the media on this tragedy. However, the game is shit and so is its creator. Freedom is one thing, but having respect and a sense humanity is totally different. Newgrounds doesn't need crap like this. The envelope has been pushed far enough. I'm not saying to take the game down, however what I am saying is that there is no reason to give credit to Pigpen as some patron saint of free expression. I hate scumbags who use free expression as shield, abusing our freedom, just to be anti-social amoral jerks.

Naysayers, come on. You're saying you prefer getting angry at the guy who made a game out of a tragedy rather than at what actually caused it.

It has been discussed before. It is still being discussed about.

"Violent entertainment leads to violent behavior and thoughts."

Blah blah. THIS is what Seung-Hui Cho was, and this is probably why he did it. Loneliness. If he hadn't been so cut-off, if he had had more good friends, I think he wouldn't have done it.

Conclusion : Give an unstable lad shit and he shoots up your school. Don't.