btw, the aura-explaination should be updated or removed.

At 10/18/02 12:05 PM, WadeFulp wrote: Alright, I didn't really want to make another front page post, but a lot of people are still confused and are brining up a lot of similar questions and concerns so I will try to briefly address them.

We are working on a rank system for voting points. As users accumulate voting points (BLAM & PROTECTION) they will go up in rank. As users go up in rank they will get cool new rank badges in their user profiles, in addition to their current Experience Level icon. As users go up in vote rank they will also gain a small vote power bonus to their voting power! Say 2% at first, but maybe as much as 50% at the top level (10 + 50% = 15). We are still working on this system but we should roll it out sometime next week. So with regards to BLAM and PROTECTION points you want to get as many of each as possible! A lot of people are complaining certain users are only going after protection points, or only after BLAMS. Well, you don't want to do that! You want to get as many of each! So if you only vote 5 on every movie, you're going to miss out on BLAM points! If you only vote 0 on every movie you will miss out on PROTECTION points! Your rank is determined by TOTAL points. So you should watch the submission and vote honestly. This will be your best chance to get as many points as possible.

Also some people want us to have a separate total for users who cast the triggering vote causing a movie to either be protected or blammed. We will not do this. This was the whole problem before! Users would hold back their vote to try and get a BLAM point! We want this to be a team effort and reward everyone who participates!

Some people are saying the system is failing because of all the color coded movies in the TOP 50 most recent list. This is not the system failing, it is the system working! The reason there are so many color coded movies is because all the crap is being deleted off the portal very quickly now! Before a good movie would be pushed off the top 50 list in a day or less. Now with the flood of crap under control a good movie can stay on the 50 most recent list for around 4 days! This give the submission much more time to receive feedback, views, and votes! All pluses for the submitter! Also in the past some movies never got enough votes to allow them to be color coded! So a good movie may have left the list without getting enough votes to be coded! Now a good movie is color coded very quickly!

We have a lot of things we are working on. We are working on the log in problem (some people are being logged out and not staying logged in). We will address allowing users to select their favorite portal submissions in their profile, rather than it being based on their reviews. We will be adding lists to the portal so users can look up movies that need votes either to be protected or blammed. We will let users view BLAMMED submission's reviews, so authors can see where they went wrong. So over the next couple of months a lot of these issues will be resolved, just give us a chance! :) LilJim is already far exceeding any of our expectations and is working as fast as he can. So let's be sure to give him thanks for making all these ideas happen!

Woohoo. Thanks Wade.
I'll start racking up the blam and protection points right away. :)

:At 10/18/02 12:05 PM, WadeFulp wrote stuff...

Something that crossed my mind..There's still a slight imbalance between blamming and protecting a movie. If you cast the vote that takes a movie over the BLAM threshold, you get a movie that shows you "destroying" the flash. But, if you cast the vote that takes the movie over the protect threshold (as in: Not being blammed), you don't get jack (Except the satisfaction of knowing that someone's hard work is safe)

IMO, there should be some kind of little movie for the people who cast the votes 25/50/75/100 that protect the movie.

Well, just a thought anyway

I think that continuing with this new system will contribute to a more stable Newgrounds.

However, I have a suggestion. Since the new developments of the system tries to enforce keeping a film on or destroying it, and a lot of good films are being kept on, perhaps you should increase the minimum score necessary for a portal film to be considered having a 'decent score' and an 'excellent score'--that way the portal might not be so insanely colorful. In addition, this also contributes to enforcing higher quality in films--since the lame-as-hell-8-frame-made-in-5-minutes-stick-death movies will probably be blammed off the face of the planet and only the worthwhile flashes will survive, needing a better score for a film to be considered 'decent' or 'excellent' will make NG more selective of what's considered a 'good' flash.

Does anyone else follow that?

At 10/19/02 10:02 AM, MortalMaxx wrote: i think its the best to remove the movie/game's score, cuz then people dont know if its allmost blammed or protected, so people watch the movie until they know what they will vote...

That's an awsome idea. I also think that the author should be able to see his/her score. And after it reaches the 100th vote it'll let people see the score. That for sure will help unfair voteing to stop. That's a great idea dude.

Waaa?

I just want to see my picture thingy

Ok I just logged in today and now we can put up pictures with posts right? But it can't hold a really big picture. Check it out its cool

Now there's a new picture upload to where you can post pictures right after you post something right? Wade you guys are updating.... without telling us but its a surpise but it doesnt hold a big pic it has to be small though. And I suggest you make another NG post on the front of NG telling others this
-DarkJaymz

Since everyone likes my idea, i think it should be reported to a fulp...

The portal does seem to be working more efficiently than it was. I agree with making the score invisible, until after it has been voted on 100 times. The way the portal is working now, this should be no problem. Seeing the score before ever seeing the flash immediately biases the viewer. If they notice it will be blammed, they will be more inclined to vote 0/1 on it to get the blam point. The same goes for protection points. If someone will be the 100th voter on a flash, and the score is 2.7, and that person thought it should be 0, they have to decide whether to give a two, which gives them a point, or vote how they really feel, and get nothing. If the score was invisible, the person would vote 0, and more than likely, others would have too. Crap will still be flushed out in 25 to 50 votes, and the better movies will make it. Every vote will be a fair one since no one really knows if a movie will be protected or blammed. It will support users giving their true vote, and they will learn that numbers exist between zero and five. Still, there will always be assholes voting to the extremes of the scale.

Then, after 100 votes, the colors should be shown. I suppose the established author color could still highlight a flash as soon as it is submitted. I've seen some pretty crappy stuff come from "established authors". Purple has become pretty meaningless, you might want to work on that.

Also, I really like the idea that by a movie it will show the gems and rewards given to it. I'm sure you have considered this in the past, but I think flash artists should get voting power depending on how well accepted their movie is. 10 extra points for daily feature, lets say, though that is still pretty low. Being an amateur flash artist, I know it takes a lot more work to create a decent movie/game than it does to watch and vote on five different flashes.

At 10/19/02 04:48 PM, VasIndustries wrote: The portal does seem to be working more efficiently than it was. I agree with making the score invisible, until after it has been voted on 100 times. The way the portal is working now, this should be no problem. Seeing the score before ever seeing the flash immediately biases the viewer. If they notice it will be blammed, they will be more inclined to vote 0/1 on it to get the blam point. The same goes for protection points. If someone will be the 100th voter on a flash, and the score is 2.7, and that person thought it should be 0, they have to decide whether to give a two, which gives them a point, or vote how they really feel, and get nothing. If the score was invisible, the person would vote 0, and more than likely, others would have too. Crap will still be flushed out in 25 to 50 votes, and the better movies will make it. Every vote will be a fair one since no one really knows if a movie will be protected or blammed. It will support users giving their true vote, and they will learn that numbers exist between zero and five. Still, there will always be assholes voting to the extremes of the scale.

Then, after 100 votes, the colors should be shown. I suppose the established author color could still highlight a flash as soon as it is submitted. I've seen some pretty crappy stuff come from "established authors". Purple has become pretty meaningless, you might want to work on that.

Also, I really like the idea that by a movie it will show the gems and rewards given to it. I'm sure you have considered this in the past, but I think flash artists should get voting power depending on how well accepted their movie is. 10 extra points for daily feature, lets say, though that is still pretty low. Being an amateur flash artist, I know it takes a lot more work to create a decent movie/game than it does to watch and vote on five different flashes.

Yeah I agree. BUT! If its a huge file size and a shitty flash other would need to know. Reviews come to mind but some shitheads didn't like hentai sim girl because its to big or they thought it was to complicated. So they review badly and others will think that and would vote low. Also a small file size and a great movie like A Simple Request. We need the score just as well as the review so we can compare them. Sure others just go, vote bad or good, and later get points. But there gay. I think its a good idea but then again its a bad one. There really is no way to keep out assholes and such. We have to live with and cop with it. So lets drop it and pretend we had this voting system from the start and pretend we never changed. Sure discuss it but don't complain Tom, Wade, and all the others try to make it better. You guys just think of an idea blurt it out before thinking and how complicated it would be. So.... who's going to next to complain because I sick of it.
Wade its great just let them get used to the new system its only been about a week or two.
I hope every thing gets better.
-DarkJaymz

At 10/19/02 05:04 PM, DarkJaymz wrote:

Yeah I agree. BUT! If its a huge file size and a shitty flash other would need to know. Reviews come to mind but some shitheads didn't like hentai sim girl because its to big or they thought it was to complicated. So they review badly and others will think that and would vote low. Also a small file size and a great movie like A Simple Request. We need the score just as well as the review so we can compare them. Sure others just go, vote bad or good, and later get points. But there gay. I think its a good idea but then again its a bad one. There really is no way to keep out assholes and such. We have to live with and cop with it. So lets drop it and pretend we had this voting system from the start and pretend we never changed. Sure discuss it but don't complain Tom, Wade, and all the others try to make it better. You guys just think of an idea blurt it out before thinking and how complicated it would be. So.... who's going to next to complain because I sick of it.

Wade its great just let them get used to the new system its only been about a week or two.
I hope every thing gets better.
-DarkJaymz

Yeah I agree with you here, taking the Score from being visible won't do very much, because people will still be Bias based on who makes the Movie, if they like that person or not, file size of the Movie etc. The new System is working just fine, just give it some time it only needs a little bit of tweaking but nothing Major. Keep it up Wade and LilJim can't wait for those Rank Badges =] Newgrounds just keeps getting better and better

Yeah I agree with you here, taking the Score from being visible won't do very much, because people will still be Bias based on who makes the Movie, if they like that person or not, file size of the Movie etc. The new System is working just fine, just give it some time it only needs a little bit of tweaking but nothing Major. Keep it up Wade and LilJim can't wait for those Rank Badges =] Newgrounds just keeps getting better and better

Well said--personally, I think that removing/hiding the scores is a bad idea. What's next on the agenda--getting rid of reviews?? Some people like to consult critics before they watch movies, and will watch them depending upon reviews. However, those with more common sense will know that it's only an opinion--and that some opinions are biased--or may be biased, yet the proof is in the pudding. You shouldn't know what to rate it until you see these things for yourself.

I like this system. It promotes clearing out crap and supporting good movies. The portal hasn't been this squeaky clean in... in... I don't know how long--I've only been here for about 4 months or so. Regardless--I think things are working out prefectly. Keep up the good work!

ty Wade

I HATE getting EXP. the old-fashioned way.

You said that we'd get EXP. depending on how many BLAMS and PROTECTIONS we have.

Right?

Okay. I've been reading through and here are my thoughts.

Removing the score before 100 votes. Not a bad idea. I can see how this might result in a fairer score. However, I think this would upset a lot of people and make things less fun. We want to encourage people to vote. We don't want to take all the fun out of it and make it a bore. People have worked hard to raise their levels to earn more voting power. If they can't see a score and cast their vote to try and counter act a score they think isn't right, that takes all the fun out of the system. Like say the masses vote something really stupid high because it's some anime chick with bouncing tits, and that's it. Senior users can come in and bring that score down to a more deserving level. Why should bouncing tits out score something that took someone weeks to action script and animate? So while I agree it could be more fair, I think removing the scores would be a bad idea in the bigger picture. Like I keep saying, you people need to look at the bigger picture when you come up with some of these ideas.

Look, no matter what we possibly come up with no system will be 100% fair or make 100% of NG's users happy. If we could do that we'd be running for President of the United States! However I don't think anyone can say the new system isn't vastly better than what we had before. We now have a colorful TOP 50, and if you look a lot of the color coded movies are pretty good. CRAP submissions are being cleared off almost instantly, instead of lingering for days, or eternity. I think I've seen better submissions coming in lately as well. This could be due to submitters regaining confidence in NG. No longer does their hard work have to be burried in a list of shit a mile long. No longer does their hard work get 18 votes and disspear into the abyss of shit and crap that was once the portal most recent list, never to be viewed again! Now all good movies get at least 100 votes before falling off the TOP 50! This ensures all good movies being submitted have a fairer chance of being awarded. The new system makes it much harder for certain people to submit average movies and get their friends to vote them up so they win daily feature.

However, to ease people's concerns when a movie is BLAMMED, it's not really gone. We still have it. We will do our best to review the list and make sure good movies aren't being carelessly blammed. If they are, we'll bring them back in a protected state. This won't effect points, but it gives the movie another chance. We will also make blammed submission's reviews available for all to see, you just won't be able to see the blammed movie, as it may have been malicious, racist, pornographic, etc.

The rank badges and rank system should hopefully be up by Monday, if not tomorrow. Thank Tom for his hard work drawling all the badges, I think they look really cool. Thank Jim for programming everything and making it come to life. All I do is just think up this crazy shit. :) People said "What purpose do protection points serve? Or BLAM points for that matter now that everyone can easily get them." well, I thought up a purpose, and the NG team has delivered it to you. I hope you enjoy it, and I hope it makes NG a better and more fun place.

cool make more auras like the ones i suggested

I cant send anything to people with e-mail to a friend. did you change it too? HURRY! with a response. I sent something to myself and i never got it ssame with my dad i sent something to him and he didnt get it wither

man, liljim is kickin' ass. Is he a newgrounds employee now?

So the Rank Badges and Ranks will be up either today or Monday, that's Awesome news. Any idea when the BLAM/PROTECTION search will be up, or when we'll be able to Select our Favorite movies? Tom, Wade, and Jim Thanks for making Newgrounds more fun than ever before!

Wade said: We want to encourage people to vote.

I think u missed the word fair

Sounds interesting I hope the badges and stuff will come up soon !

At 10/20/02 06:01 AM, MortalMaxx wrote: Wade said: We want to encourage people to vote.

I think u missed the word fair

While some people may not vote fairly, right now most are, and that's what counts. Before we had less people voting, so people who voted unfairly had a lot more pull than they do now. So relax.

My siginture better work!

super nintendo rocks

At 10/18/02 12:05 PM, WadeFulp wrote: Alright, I didn't really want to make another front page post, but a lot of people are still confused and are brining up a lot of similar questions and concerns so I will try to briefly address them.

We are working on a rank system for voting points. As users accumulate voting points (BLAM & PROTECTION) they will go up in rank. As users go up in rank they will get cool new rank badges in their user profiles, in addition to their current Experience Level icon. As users go up in vote rank they will also gain a small vote power bonus to their voting power! Say 2% at first, but maybe as much as 50% at the top level (10 + 50% = 15). We are still working on this system but we should roll it out sometime next week. So with regards to BLAM and PROTECTION points you want to get as many of each as possible! A lot of people are complaining certain users are only going after protection points, or only after BLAMS. Well, you don't want to do that! You want to get as many of each! So if you only vote 5 on every movie, you're going to miss out on BLAM points! If you only vote 0 on every movie you will miss out on PROTECTION points! Your rank is determined by TOTAL points. So you should watch the submission and vote honestly. This will be your best chance to get as many points as possible.

Also some people want us to have a separate total for users who cast the triggering vote causing a movie to either be protected or blammed. We will not do this. This was the whole problem before! Users would hold back their vote to try and get a BLAM point! We want this to be a team effort and reward everyone who participates!

Some people are saying the system is failing because of all the color coded movies in the TOP 50 most recent list. This is not the system failing, it is the system working! The reason there are so many color coded movies is because all the crap is being deleted off the portal very quickly now! Before a good movie would be pushed off the top 50 list in a day or less. Now with the flood of crap under control a good movie can stay on the 50 most recent list for around 4 days! This give the submission much more time to receive feedback, views, and votes! All pluses for the submitter! Also in the past some movies never got enough votes to allow them to be color coded! So a good movie may have left the list without getting enough votes to be coded! Now a good movie is color coded very quickly!

We have a lot of things we are working on. We are working on the log in problem (some people are being logged out and not staying logged in). We will address allowing users to select their favorite portal submissions in their profile, rather than it being based on their reviews. We will be adding lists to the portal so users can look up movies that need votes either to be protected or blammed. We will let users view BLAMMED submission's reviews, so authors can see where they went wrong. So over the next couple of months a lot of these issues will be resolved, just give us a chance! :) LilJim is already far exceeding any of our expectations and is working as fast as he can. So let's be sure to give him thanks for making all these ideas happen!

Is there any way for some of the real old stuff with ratings less than 1 to ever be deleted? maybe a feature section of random old stuff w/ less than 1.0 ranking should be made so people have a second chance to see if it's blam material.

At 10/18/02 12:05 PM, WadeFulp wrote: Alright, I didn't really want to make another front page post, but a lot of people are still confused and are brining up a lot of similar questions and concerns so I will try to briefly address them.

We are working on a rank system for voting points. As users accumulate voting points (BLAM & PROTECTION) they will go up in rank. As users go up in rank they will get cool new rank badges in their user profiles, in addition to their current Experience Level icon. As users go up in vote rank they will also gain a small vote power bonus to their voting power! Say 2% at first, but maybe as much as 50% at the top level (10 + 50% = 15). We are still working on this system but we should roll it out sometime next week. So with regards to BLAM and PROTECTION points you want to get as many of each as possible! A lot of people are complaining certain users are only going after protection points, or only after BLAMS. Well, you don't want to do that! You want to get as many of each! So if you only vote 5 on every movie, you're going to miss out on BLAM points! If you only vote 0 on every movie you will miss out on PROTECTION points! Your rank is determined by TOTAL points. So you should watch the submission and vote honestly. This will be your best chance to get as many points as possible.

Also some people want us to have a separate total for users who cast the triggering vote causing a movie to either be protected or blammed. We will not do this. This was the whole problem before! Users would hold back their vote to try and get a BLAM point! We want this to be a team effort and reward everyone who participates!

Some people are saying the system is failing because of all the color coded movies in the TOP 50 most recent list. This is not the system failing, it is the system working! The reason there are so many color coded movies is because all the crap is being deleted off the portal very quickly now! Before a good movie would be pushed off the top 50 list in a day or less. Now with the flood of crap under control a good movie can stay on the 50 most recent list for around 4 days! This give the submission much more time to receive feedback, views, and votes! All pluses for the submitter! Also in the past some movies never got enough votes to allow them to be color coded! So a good movie may have left the list without getting enough votes to be coded! Now a good movie is color coded very quickly!

We have a lot of things we are working on. We are working on the log in problem (some people are being logged out and not staying logged in). We will address allowing users to select their favorite portal submissions in their profile, rather than it being based on their reviews. We will be adding lists to the portal so users can look up movies that need votes either to be protected or blammed. We will let users view BLAMMED submission's reviews, so authors can see where they went wrong. So over the next couple of months a lot of these issues will be resolved, just give us a chance! :) LilJim is already far exceeding any of our expectations and is working as fast as he can. So let's be sure to give him thanks for making all these ideas happen! wade how soon will the new features be upand running

cool stuff

This system rock's!
I just got enough points to have a 2% increase in my voting power.

I guess the Ranks and Badges are going, because upon voting I saw this Message

Thanks for voting, NemesisM66!
Your experience points gave you a voting power of 8.83 votes. Your blam and protection points gave you an additional 2% of your experience power, meaning that your total vote power was worth 9.01 votes!

The more experience points you have combined with BLAM and PROTECTION points, the more your vote is worth!

This is Awesome! Great job Tom, Wade, and Jim keep up great work like this.