At 10/18/02 06:59 PM, Doomhammr wrote: wade, i understand when we get our blam point which is when the movie is deleted but when are we awarded with our protection point?
After the movie has 100 votes and hasn't been BLAMMED. Then you get your PROTECTION Point. So after it has 100 Votes no more PROTECTION Points are awarded. I believe that's how it works anyway, If I'm mistaken correct me.
At 10/18/02 07:24 PM, NemesisM66 wrote:At 10/18/02 06:59 PM, Doomhammr wrote: wade, i understand when we get our blam point which is when the movie is deleted but when are we awarded with our protection point?After the movie has 100 votes and hasn't been BLAMMED. Then you get your PROTECTION Point. So after it has 100 Votes no more PROTECTION Points are awarded. I believe that's how it works anyway, If I'm mistaken correct me.
And the people who helped give the good votes to the movie get a PROTECTION point when it's protected?
At 10/18/02 07:24 PM, NemesisM66 wrote:At 10/18/02 06:59 PM, Doomhammr wrote: wade, i understand when we get our blam point which is when the movie is deleted but when are we awarded with our protection point?After the movie has 100 votes and hasn't been BLAMMED. Then you get your PROTECTION Point. So after it has 100 Votes no more PROTECTION Points are awarded. I believe that's how it works anyway, If I'm mistaken correct me.
Almost there - when a movie receives its 100th vote, the users who have voted 2 or above are rewarded with a protection point. At each of the blam check stages, the users who have voted 1 or 0 are rewarded with blam points.
xitosucks - that's one of the next things on the "to do" list :)
i don't know if i got the right idea, but i think that instead of encouraging fair voting, this is making people vote only 0's and 5's. i'm a fair voter and i know the difference between a 1 and a 0. however, this system doesn't encourage you to vote 1 instead of 0. anyway, i see this as a nice effort, maybe more polishing. keep up the good work.
The only way that the system 'wouldn't be working' would be if some newbie was trying to post his 8-frame DBZ Stickdeath flash and got it shot down. THIS system ensures that the BEST films will survive on Newgrounds--and that is totally awesome. It's pretty much the cure for all of the horrible, low-effort/made-in-5-minutes films out there that shouldn't exist for more than an hour or so. Keep up the good work!
At 10/18/02 01:22 PM, Flowerman wrote: Yeah I'm starting to think all this new stuff is good now. As someone said before, "Newgrounds is evolving."
The changes are great and "Evolving" is just the right way to say it. Keep up the good work here at NG!
Ok, so we are not supposed to get just blams or just protection points, because we'll miss out on the other points? I dunno, it sounds like the extra voting power wouldn't be worth having compared to having the highest blam points or the highest protection points, especially if there is no cap on the total protection and blam points you can have.
I believe the root of NGs problems is the voters competing against eachother. Flash entries are supposed to compete with eachother, not voters. As said before, by keeping track of blam points and protection points, you encourage many users to achieve more blam points or protection points than the rest. I don't believe the extra voting power is enough of an insentive to counteract this problem.
I also agree with rabidmanx, if there were a way to offer an insentive to vote outside 0's and 5's, NG voters would be more likely to vote honestly. However, because movies that get put into the daily top 5 and such get about 200-300 votes and more, users feel they have no choice but to use 0's and 5's to make any impact. This goes double for those who don't bother to keep track of experience points.
I have no doubt liljim is going a great job and he deserves every bit of praise. Personally, I would have gone about certain things differently a long time ago. What is being put in now seems better than before, but there will still be a lot of dishonest voting going around.
BTW Wade, how's the BBS changes coming along? You said over a week ago you were planning to add BBS moderators when liljim was finished. Is that still in the works?
At 10/18/02 03:45 PM, psykloak1 wrote: I got an idea for how to clear out the portal of all past crap.
make a new section on the portal that display 50 portal entries in order starting from 1 (so the first week is 1-50 2nd is 51-100 and so on) then every one can vote on them and basicaly fluch the crap out.
If you read my post closely you would have seen I already addressed this issue:
"We will be adding lists to the portal so users can look up movies that need votes either to be protected or blammed. "
At 10/18/02 04:16 PM, DarkJaymz wrote: ummm.... no.
Ok I really glad that NG is fixed and has a new system. I hang out all over NG and people in the bbs went on a blamming spree once. they even had the flash address to go to. I click on one(there was like 10 or 20) and they were all blammed in 2 seconds. I understand the blam shit but the protecting.. sure I understand it but the only way you can get a protectors point is to vote on new movies right? I mean not like the ones on the top 50 when you know they will never be blammed. One more thing I really think this flash should be in the sonic section I mean its made appearence's on the top 50 and people really like it. What do you think? here is th address http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=59419
-DarkJaymz
We need people to vote on the TOP 50 most recent stuff, not the TOP 50 of all time... Those movies have plenty of votes and we don't need to encourage people to vote on them even more. We need people to vote on the new submissions so they can get more feedback before going off the list. So to encourage more people to help with this sometimes mundane job of looking through all the crap, we reward them.
Ive never seen so many "Blue" movies in the 50 most recent, before, maybe there were one or two (at MOST 3 a day) and the rest was crap. There were movies getting less than 10 votes and leaving the top 50, now there almost aren't any that are under 100 votes.
The point is... Don't lose your dinosaur.
At 10/18/02 06:12 PM, xitosucks wrote:
You should also make it even more interesting by doing something that RIAA did {not antinapster stuff} such as certifying. How about if the movie or a game have 500,000 votes and views it'll wen't gold,1,000,000 votes and views went platinum,2,000,000 or more is multiplatinum and to do that you should put gold or platinum colored symbol do it.
We're way ahead of you. I doubt many people will come up with an idea we haven't thought of already, but you can all try. :) Tom already has icons drawn for different colored gems, that will represent different views. So as movies get more views they get a more valuable gem. A diamond being 1 million +. Soon the view pages will show a rating (we are working on a rating system, only to warn people, not to restrict people), and we will also show all the awards a movie has won, and any gem they have. In a user's profiles they will have trophies for any movies they won awards on, and gems. So someone with a lot of great submissions could have a whole bunch of trophies and gems. Give us 2-3 weeks and most of this should be up and running.
At 10/18/02 06:59 PM, Doomhammr wrote: wade, i understand when we get our blam point which is when the movie is deleted but when are we awarded with our protection point?
When a movie reaches 100 votes and has a score over 1.50 it isn't blammed and becomes protected. Basically 100 votes is the last check point, so a movie over 100 votes can't be blammed anymore. Sorry if I haven't made this more clear. I think I have all this info in the PORTAL FAQ, you could see if I explain it better there. :)
At 10/18/02 09:01 PM, Satarian wrote: Ok, so we are not supposed to get just blams or just protection points, because we'll miss out on the other points? I dunno, it sounds like the extra voting power wouldn't be worth having compared to having the highest blam points or the highest protection points, especially if there is no cap on the total protection and blam points you can have.
I believe the root of NGs problems is the voters competing against eachother. Flash entries are supposed to compete with eachother, not voters. As said before, by keeping track of blam points and protection points, you encourage many users to achieve more blam points or protection points than the rest. I don't believe the extra voting power is enough of an insentive to counteract this problem.
I also agree with rabidmanx, if there were a way to offer an insentive to vote outside 0's and 5's, NG voters would be more likely to vote honestly. However, because movies that get put into the daily top 5 and such get about 200-300 votes and more, users feel they have no choice but to use 0's and 5's to make any impact. This goes double for those who don't bother to keep track of experience points.
I have no doubt liljim is going a great job and he deserves every bit of praise. Personally, I would have gone about certain things differently a long time ago. What is being put in now seems better than before, but there will still be a lot of dishonest voting going around.
BTW Wade, how's the BBS changes coming along? You said over a week ago you were planning to add BBS moderators when liljim was finished. Is that still in the works?
Well, if the system has flaws it's not Jim's fault, he just does what we request. :) I see what you are saying, but if a movie say has an inflated score and gets Daily Top 5, or reaches the TOP 50 of all time, at this point no one will be getting points, so they will vote more accordingly and the score will quickly change into what it should be. The key here is to get more people helping to filter the daily submissions, and if you look the submissions do have a wide range of scores, so weather people are either voting 0 or 5 it doesn't much matter. If it was doing what you said everything would either be 0 or 5, and this is not the case. So I think you're getting worried over nothing.
As far as the BBS, Jim is still working on stuff, but some of these other issues are much higher priority than the BBS. I believe Jim is working on BBS image sigs.
You know Wade, I'm starting to think making the aura selectable isn't such a good idea. Before, you could sort of tell peoples voting habits by their aura. Now its kind of like, " Oh I love da blue backround. It reminds me of a summer sky while I'm screwing my bitch and singing her some fucking Jon B. Let there be light." or "Jesus Christ I love listening to speed metal backwards, let me put my aura on dark so people will think I hang out at dark smokey coffee shops and read crappy poetry. Red wings, ahoy!". It really doesn't stand for anything anymore. Except drinking human health juice by the gallons. Thick and rich like oh so delicious Ovaltine except its vanilla and pretty fucking taaaaaaaaaaaasty!!!!!
At 10/18/02 09:12 PM, TheJoe324 wrote: Ive never seen so many "Blue" movies in the 50 most recent, before, maybe there were one or two (at MOST 3 a day) and the rest was crap. There were movies getting less than 10 votes and leaving the top 50, now there almost aren't any that are under 100 votes.
Exactly. This is exactly why I wanted to implement this system. I know it would work much better. The reason we only saw 1 or 2 blue movies before is because when we got one, it was off the list later that day because all the crap knocked it off. Now the crap is filtered out right away and the blue movies stay long, as well as the green, and other marginal movies. Also some really good movies never got enough votes to turn blue before going off the list, I forget the minimum they need, I think 5-10, Jim might be able to provide us with that.
People will always bitch, but what these people fail to see is the bigger picture. Sure there might be some quirks, but you gotta admit the system is working much better now overall. If someone submits something they feel was blammed unfairly they can resubmit it. We may go easier on people resubmitting. Maybe say they can try up to 3 times. Now with so many people voting, they will actually look forward to more crap coming in so they actually have something to vote on. :) NG only gets so many good movies a day, so right now people are sitting around waiting for stuff to come in. :)
At 10/18/02 09:29 PM, WadeFulp wrote:At 10/18/02 09:12 PM, TheJoe324 wrote: Ive never seen so many "Blue" movies in the 50 most recent, before, maybe there were one or two (at MOST 3 a day) and the rest was crap. There were movies getting less than 10 votes and leaving the top 50, now there almost aren't any that are under 100 votes.Exactly. This is exactly why I wanted to implement this system. I know it would work much better. The reason we only saw 1 or 2 blue movies before is because when we got one, it was off the list later that day because all the crap knocked it off. Now the crap is filtered out right away and the blue movies stay long, as well as the green, and other marginal movies. Also some really good movies never got enough votes to turn blue before going off the list, I forget the minimum they need, I think 5-10, Jim might be able to provide us with that.
Wade,I think you're wrong. I think that when a movie is no longer in the blam zone, people are now giving it unnecessarily high votes so they can get protection points. I have decided to try a few movies in the blue because, shit, they're supposed to have excellent scores, therefore being excellent movies right? WRONG!!!!! Holy shit I have never seen so many run of the mill pieces of shit with such astronomically high scores. I mean honestly bro, I guess I don't really give a shit. I just think that it isn't working quite as well as you hoped.
People will always bitch, but what these people fail to see is the bigger picture. Sure there might be some quirks, but you gotta admit the system is working much better now overall. If someone submits something they feel was blammed unfairly they can resubmit it. We may go easier on people resubmitting. Maybe say they can try up to 3 times. Now with so many people voting, they will actually look forward to more crap coming in so they actually have something to vote on. :) NG only gets so many good movies a day, so right now people are sitting around waiting for stuff to come in. :)
ITS TOO GODDAMN COLORFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!MY EYES!!!!!!!!
i think that the movie reviews should also be rewarded. i think that not all people that review movies give fair reviews. i mean, to give a 0 to a movie is completely understandable, but saying "this sucks. you should kill yourself" IS NOT FAIR CRITICISM. i have seen good movies receiving reviews like "i liked the movie a lot, but since i hate you i'm going to give you a 0".
i give more importance to the reviews than i do to the votes. the reviews has the substance that the votes lack. if someone likes the movie, they tell you so and they explain why! people should be rewarded for that honesty.
by giving people incentives to write reviews, they would be more willing to watch the movies (even if they do it just to get the incentives). more people watching the movies mean more people writing reviews making the portal more dynamic.
WADE!!!! Have you seen any of the blue movies on the top50 recent. I don't think this system is working at all, i think it's makeing it worse. See people were blaming bad and good movies before so they can get their blam points. Now people are giveing 5's to bad and good movies so they can raise their protection points. Look at some of the movies in blue, most of them aren't that good at all. In fact watch them all, you'll notice that they were just voted high so they can get some votes. I saw a movie called Jokes and Gags and it's not even a flash, it's just a bunch of sounds, yet it has a 3.35. I think you need to rethink this idea dude. It's best you turn of this BLAM and PROTECTION thing now before we see really really bad movies on the TOP 50 and we can't do anything about it.
At 10/18/02 10:07 PM, TheGoldenMonkey wrote: WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE STEVEN SEGAL SHOW?
Someone already answered your question, and we have answered it many times before. He sold the exclusive rights to another company and he requested us to remove it from Newgrounds. So we did.
At 10/18/02 10:28 PM, creamyspy69 wrote:
Wade,I think you're wrong. I think that when a movie is no longer in the blam zone, people are now giving it unnecessarily high votes so they can get protection points. I have decided to try a few movies in the blue because, shit, they're supposed to have excellent scores, therefore being excellent movies right? WRONG!!!!! Holy shit I have never seen so many run of the mill pieces of shit with such astronomically high scores. I mean honestly bro, I guess I don't really give a shit. I just think that it isn't working quite as well as you hoped.
People will always bitch, but what these people fail to see is the bigger picture. Sure there might be some quirks, but you gotta admit the system is working much better now overall. If someone submits something they feel was blammed unfairly they can resubmit it. We may go easier on people resubmitting. Maybe say they can try up to 3 times. Now with so many people voting, they will actually look forward to more crap coming in so they actually have something to vote on. :) NG only gets so many good movies a day, so right now people are sitting around waiting for stuff to come in. :)ITS TOO GODDAMN COLORFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!MY EYES!!!!!!!!
I disagree. The stuff I saw in BLUE I thought was pretty good, compared to the rest of the stuff on the list. What you must realize is the first 100 votes helps seperate the good from the bad. I'm sure some things will earn inflated scores, but like I said earlier, if they make the Daily Top 5, or the TOP 50 of all time, their score will quickly be adjusted to where it belongs. 100 votes has little effect on a movie's score after it gets thousands of votes from the extra exposure it would get. From what I've seen the best submissions each day are making the TOP 5 list. Except that lame ebonics lesson thing. :) I guess people forget how many times something similar has been submitted.
At 10/18/02 10:51 PM, Rabidmanx wrote: i think that the movie reviews should also be rewarded. i think that not all people that review movies give fair reviews. i mean, to give a 0 to a movie is completely understandable, but saying "this sucks. you should kill yourself" IS NOT FAIR CRITICISM. i have seen good movies receiving reviews like "i liked the movie a lot, but since i hate you i'm going to give you a 0".
i give more importance to the reviews than i do to the votes. the reviews has the substance that the votes lack. if someone likes the movie, they tell you so and they explain why! people should be rewarded for that honesty.
by giving people incentives to write reviews, they would be more willing to watch the movies (even if they do it just to get the incentives). more people watching the movies mean more people writing reviews making the portal more dynamic.
Well, if you never noticed we've had an email address set up for some time now where users can report abusive reviews, and I usually promptly remove them if they are reported to me. So use the email instead of bitching about it. :) If you don't want to help solve the problem, don't bitch. :) Also we always thought we should let users vote on reviews. Like "Was this a helpful review?" and if it gets to many negative votes it's removed. Only problem is this would create more load on NG's already taxed servers. We're trying to make NG as fun and dynamic as we can, but I don't think people would be to happy if we made it so dynamic it ran like total crap all the time.
At 10/19/02 01:58 AM, Mini3DdoritosClock wrote: WADE!!!! Have you seen any of the blue movies on the top50 recent. I don't think this system is working at all, i think it's makeing it worse. See people were blaming bad and good movies before so they can get their blam points. Now people are giveing 5's to bad and good movies so they can raise their protection points. Look at some of the movies in blue, most of them aren't that good at all. In fact watch them all, you'll notice that they were just voted high so they can get some votes. I saw a movie called Jokes and Gags and it's not even a flash, it's just a bunch of sounds, yet it has a 3.35. I think you need to rethink this idea dude. It's best you turn of this BLAM and PROTECTION thing now before we see really really bad movies on the TOP 50 and we can't do anything about it.
Read my other responses to this concern. You are over reacting. If a shit movie did end up in the TOP 50 of all time with 100 votes at 4.5 or whatever, it wouldn't stand a chance. It would be knocked off that list very quickly. From what I've seen the TOP 5 has looked pretty fair.
NO NO NO!!!
CANT YOU PPL SEE WHAT THIS IS DOING?
EVERYONE WILL START VOTING HIGH ON CRAPPY MOVIES TO GET PROTECTION POINTS (CUZ BLAMS ARE HARDER), MAKING NEWGROUNDS NOTHING BUT A COLLECTION OF GARBAGE!!!
but if thats what u want, Tom, go right ahead and fuck up the site. its yours so i can't do anythin about it can i
well, if people would vote fair, there wasnt a problem... the aura encourages people to vote fair, but there still are some problems like the blam and protection points, cuz that encourages people to vote unfair, to get their desired point...
i think its the best to remove the movie/game's score, cuz then people dont know if its allmost blammed or protected, so people watch the movie until they know what they will vote...
At 10/19/02 10:02 AM, MortalMaxx wrote: i think its the best to remove the movie/game's score, cuz then people dont know if its allmost blammed or protected, so people watch the movie until they know what they will vote...
Pure genius my friend.
well said
