At 2/1/11 04:40 PM, Lagerkapo wrote:

At 1/31/11 01:23 PM, Abuelodigital17 wrote: Lagerkapo,
I have become interested in Systema and I have a few questions. What are the first techniques beginners learn? What is a typical class like?

Well it all depends on the school/instructors and the day you show up on. The school I went to had a pretty open-ended structure where we'd start out with some warm up/conditioning then move on to whatever we felt like doing. The instructors usually had something to start with (body manipulation, unorthodox weapons etc.) but whenever someone had a question or figured something out that was effective we'd generally go off on tangents. Basically, although other schools may well be different, we just kind of did whatever. Sometimes we'd get thrown down stairs, sometimes we'd do force redirection, it was totally sporadic; Just like combat.

At 1/31/11 05:50 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: http://martialartsregister.co.uk/

No Krav or Systema classes in the NE :(

Systema doesn't surprise me, but Krav Mega has been becoming popular so that does kind of surprise me a bit. Is that registry 100% comprehensive?

Whether or not if it is 100% is indefinite, it's got a huge scope of clubs though. It might be 100% or it might not, what people do is when they make a club, they just add it to the list.

I would love to fit some new routines into my current regime as I get back into training. Question is what and how.

At 1/31/11 04:30 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: B) Diffuses sweat through the material (you can fuck yourself up if you keep training in sweaty clothes you know...

Define training? If you mean rolling around on the mat, then yes. You can contract ringworm, and other things like that. If you're just talking about exercise, then I have NO idea what you're talking about. I live in Las Vegas, and have ran the Vegas marathon three times in the midst of summer. I can't imagine being much more sweaty then that.

At 2/2/11 04:09 PM, JackLuxom wrote:

At 1/31/11 04:30 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote:

Define training? If you mean rolling around on the mat, then yes. You can contract ringworm, and other things like that. If you're just talking about exercise, then I have NO idea what you're talking about. I live in Las Vegas, and have ran the Vegas marathon three times in the midst of summer. I can't imagine being much more sweaty then that.

Well of course I mean exercise but really intensive exercise at that. When I train I push myself to the brink of not being able to do any more.

Cotton shirts can get so sweaty that no more sweat can pass through them. Also letting your clothes swell up and keeping them on for a couple more hours or so can cause you damage to your lungs over 30 years or so (not my age) but I'm speaking on behalf of a couple people I know (quite high up) in the armed forces, who did themselves serious harm by not wearing the right gear, or not being prepared to change their clothes in enduring full training days; not only does it keep me feeling fucking refreshed when I go for runs, never heard of ringworm? I'll look it up...

Also if you've ran for hours and hours have you not had your vest rub against your top to the point that it starts to bleed? The what its made of just doesn't rub at all, its just, super light, thermal, and nice!

At 2/2/11 06:44 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: Cotton shirts can get so sweaty that no more sweat can pass through them. Also letting your clothes swell up and keeping them on for a couple more hours or so can cause you damage to your lungs over 30 years or so (not my age) but I'm speaking on behalf of a couple people I know (quite high up) in the armed forces, who did themselves serious harm by not wearing the right gear, or not being prepared to change their clothes in enduring full training days; not only does it keep me feeling fucking refreshed when I go for runs, never heard of ringworm? I'll look it up...

I've never heard anything about this. Usually if my shirt gets that bad, I just take it off. I really don't sweat very much though unless i'm doing some really intense cardio. I can usually run for a few miles without really even breaking a sweat unless it's like 120', but i've been running competitively now since I was fourteen.

Also if you've ran for hours and hours have you not had your vest rub against your top to the point that it starts to bleed? The what its made of just doesn't rub at all, its just, super light, thermal, and nice!

Well, "For hours" to me can mean two very different things. Mind you I average about 4 1/2 hours tops for a marathon, and that's just over 26 miles. (Roughly a seven minute mile average) So if I were to run for eight hours, I could make it nearly fifty miles! That's theoretically assuming I COULD run for eight hours straight. Naw though. I've never really had that problem of my shirts chafing. I usually get them in a super thin, ultra lightweight cotton blend. I can't even really tell that i'm wearing them.

At 2/5/11 02:03 PM, JackLuxom wrote:

At 2/2/11 06:44 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote:

Well whatever floats your boat! You should see if you can find a place to try a rashguard on though, just, so nice to wear!

Speaking of running I've been TERRIBLY out of shape lately so for the last two weeks I've been running as much as I can stand to.

Two weeks ago I got gassed after 200 yards (yeah, I know, 2 years of relative inactivity, 4 years of on-and-off smoking cigarettes and daily smoking weed for almost 5...) and now I can make it about a half mile before I need a breather.

Also started the old pushups-situps-leg lifts-weight lifting routine back up.

I feel fucking awesome, though I'm nowhere near where I was, say, two-three years ago....

Now all I need is to find work and I can go find some decent MA instruction, hopefully a new art I know nothing about. I always prefer to diversify my training.

At 2/6/11 05:55 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: Speaking of running I've been TERRIBLY out of shape lately so for the last two weeks I've been running as much as I can stand to.

Two weeks ago I got gassed after 200 yards (yeah, I know, 2 years of relative inactivity, 4 years of on-and-off smoking cigarettes and daily smoking weed for almost 5...) and now I can make it about a half mile before I need a breather.

Also started the old pushups-situps-leg lifts-weight lifting routine back up.

I feel fucking awesome, though I'm nowhere near where I was, say, two-three years ago....

Now all I need is to find work and I can go find some decent MA instruction, hopefully a new art I know nothing about. I always prefer to diversify my training.

Do what you need to do but I would cut the drugs if I were you whilst getting back into things. If you want to cut back then maybe the combination of the two might help.

That is if I were you, what you choose/want to do is your personal preference of course.

At 2/9/11 02:11 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: Do what you need to do but I would cut the drugs if I were you whilst getting back into things. If you want to cut back then maybe the combination of the two might help.

That is if I were you, what you choose/want to do is your personal preference of course.

Heh, pot is hardly a drug. And I haven't done anything else in like 6 months or more.

Lots of people always tell me that smoking pot will get in the way of things, but let me tell you: After almost 5 years of it I know myself well enough to know that it's hardly an obstacle. I haven't really smoked in like 2 months because I'm looking for work, but I, for one, LOVE training high. It's just a totally different experience. My mind is more empty, but I will admit it slows my reflexes a bit if I'm smoking Indica, whereas Sativa doesn't really slow me at all.

I guess I'll join?

I was in karate for 9 years. My sensei was Ozzie Mitchell.

Um, I don't know.

At 2/4/06 10:06 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: and that's what i do martial-arts wise.

Oh your not new, stop kidding yourself.

At 3/4/11 06:58 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote:

At 2/4/06 10:06 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: and that's what i do martial-arts wise.

Oh your not new, stop kidding yourself.

Hahahahaha, what the hell I thought this was active and all and I mistakenly commented on like the first page of posts.

My bad guys. Its weird to see how the development has came a long, so does that give you 8 years Systema or did you drop out Lager?

At 3/4/11 07:00 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote:

At 3/4/11 06:58 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote:

At 2/4/06 10:06 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: and that's what i do martial-arts wise.

Oh your not new, stop kidding yourself.

Hahahahaha, what the hell I thought this was active and all and I mistakenly commented on like the first page of posts.

My bad guys. Its weird to see how the development has came a long, so does that give you 8 years Systema or did you drop out Lager?

Haven't been able to do it since like four or five years ago, or like late sophomore year. It was way far from me and we didn't have money to keep paying for it.

Luckily, I may finally have found a decent job (if all goes well with some interviews and such) and would then be able to once again resume training. I have NO idea what I want to go do, but I do know I want to try something new (Judo looks super fun, and I would love to try Aikido as well) but ultimately I just want to find an open-ended school with a heavy sparring/practice focus (submission wrestling arts like Sambo and Jiu-jitsu are great for that) where there are plenty of people who can kick my ass all day and make me look like a total noob. There're not many better ways of learning combat for one like me.

I was having a conversation on facebook about TKD (taikwondo) and got into a quick conversation. Thought you guys might be interested.
-----------
its not a bad martial art
great kicks

Really?

yeah check it out

Actually a lot of body weight gets thrown around last time I tried it
Never got into it though
So I suppose im not one to criticise

brb mayteeee

but dont you also think the actual pracitcality of Ju jitsu is questionable?
Aside from Mma
well
the ground work is very impractical
but i suppose for submitting people
like a security guard
With a choke rather than battering him could be good

The ground work is only practical in combat sports
Jujitsu is a traditional sport, so obviously the art is going to be hindered in real life situations
but theres plenty of wrist locks which come out of jujitsu that are taught in practical martial arts classes.

but then takeondo is far more practical in real life and good for combat sports

I suppose, I wouldn't dispute the impracticality of Jujitsu as a martial art, but I would disagree that its completely impractical.
Taekwando is probably more practical in the sense of striking and form

Yes which is always the begginnning of a fight

sorry, taekwando IS more practical

indeed

Jujitsu has a weird way of working around things

but in MMA i would agree BJJ is more practical

Some of the techniques are really dangourous
like really
I remember letting a brown belt practice on me
He put me through 7 shoulder dislocations
It was scary as fuck
but he popped them back in place
Having that knowledge is scary to think of 8 |
Being a master of using it
"Could really fuck shit up"

Indeeed
but only in certain situations

Thats given the oppourtunity
Yeah
You can't rely on jujitsu to win you a real fight
but you can rely on it to end it 8 |
if you can get the chance
I think thats the idea behind it really, when its all about and down to submissions
----------------------

I would argue that Jiu Jitsu is HIGHLY practical.

Most people think that it's all ground work and the submissions are mostly from the bottom etc., however there is a HEAVY emphasis on body control at all stages of a combat encounter, taking someone down etc.

Granted, most Jiu Jitsu submission work DOES occur on the ground, however there are plenty of ways to dislocate joints, break limbs and inflict gruesome pain on someone while standing or putting them down.

I will admit it's not much of a striking art, but if you watch many MMA fights you'll see lots of GREAT strikers/kickboxers getting their punches ducked then taken down then they don't have a chance once they're mounted or on a rear naked choke.

One should not focus overly on any one aspect of combat; maintaining flexibility and diversity is key.

I would not say TKD is more practical, it's just different.

At 3/13/11 07:16 PM, AngryBombshell wrote:

At 3/11/11 03:31 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: Granted, most Jiu Jitsu submission work DOES occur on the ground, however there are plenty of ways to dislocate joints, break limbs and inflict gruesome pain on someone while standing or putting them down.

Which comes along with years of practice on certain points of the body.

Nah, not really. After only four months of submission wrestling/MMA training, which isn't even as in-depth as full-on Jiu Jitsu, I was pretty damn well able to inflict lots of pain on a standing opponent without hitting them.

I understand that on the whole it's true, but I wouldn't say that it takes years to learn how to be effective in ANY martial art if you understand the principles and apply them regularly in practice.

For instance, one time I was wrestling with a kid in my back yard who was a semi-experienced fighter and who had 40+ pounds on me. He got me in a guillotine-type choke hold, however I managed to reach my arm up and behind his right shoulder (I was on his right side), grabbing his opposite shoulder and tweaking my hand to gain leverage to compress his throat with my forearm, WHILE in the choke hold, and tapped him out while he was standing. I was never taught this in any class, yet I managed to improvise it on the spot and it was effective enough to win me the bout.

Case in point: It might take years for someone to TEACH you EXPRESSLY every single type of move, but if you understand the principles behind an art you can full well apply them effectively and moreover if you understand the human body you can destroy it in any way you can imagine if need be.

Another example: When I was doing grappling in MMA we were learning armbars, and they would have me drape my legs over someone's chest and neck on either side of their arm, one leg covering the neck the other the trunk. I improvised on my sparring partner and found a MUCH more effective variant which my teacher implored me not to use because it was so dangerous, where instead of pulling the arm straight down my center line I pulled it to the side, over my right hip, and using my left hand to stabilize the forearm and keep the thumb of the wrist turned upwards I wrapped the wrist under my right armpit and put my right hand under his elbow and could have broken dude's arm with little effort if any with a tiny little twitch of my hips. I also put my left leg under his left arm as opposed to over his neck, further enhancing the leverage of the technique and allowing me to damage the shoulder as well.

Again, case in point: If you understand the PRINCIPLES of an art, you can figure out any move therein. Practice makes perfect, sure, but understanding, and not mindless repetition and regurgitation of techniques EXACTLY AS SHOWN, is what makes for an accomplished martial artist.

Systema: We're not going to teach you any specific moves, but instead teach you why certain moves work.

JKD: Keep what is useful, discard the rest. Flow freely.

I am Michael, and I have been taking Shaolin Chuan'Fa for the past two years.

At 3/14/11 02:38 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: :

Again, case in point: If you understand the PRINCIPLES of an art, you can figure out any move therein. Practice makes perfect, sure, but understanding, and not mindless repetition and regurgitation of techniques EXACTLY AS SHOWN, is what makes for an accomplished martial artist.

Systema: We're not going to teach you any specific moves, but instead teach you why certain moves work.

I agree, however, if you actually plan on being any half decent Martial Artist you shouldn't be doing anything mindlessly, like you said that repetition is. In my experience, the repetition allows your body to remember the moves you have been practicing when you are least expecting it. The sets, forms, and katas, all have a purpose, and that is to strengthen your body, and to teach you technique. The only trouble is, that most people do not repetition productive, they usually see it as boring.

I also see a problem with this growing, "MMA is GAWD!" mindset that everbody seems to have. Sure, MMA can be useful, if you are in a cage, one on one, and in a competition. The only problem is, it doesn't teach you shit if you are ever held up by a gun, knife, club, or are attacked by a group. What are you supposed to do, start punching, and hope that you hit them all? MMA isn't really practical. It's a practice that encourages telegraphing, and promotes violence.

At 3/14/11 08:15 PM, FalconKeeper wrote: I also see a problem with this growing, "MMA is GAWD!" mindset that everbody seems to have. Sure, MMA can be useful, if you are in a cage, one on one, and in a competition. The only problem is, it doesn't teach you shit if you are ever held up by a gun, knife, club, or are attacked by a group. What are you supposed to do, start punching, and hope that you hit them all? MMA isn't really practical. It's a practice that encourages telegraphing, and promotes violence.

MMA isn't a Martial Art.

Any martial artist should be able to tell you that. It's illusive the think of 'Mixed Martial Arts' as any single martial art. Hence, the practicalities of MMA are relative to the arts undertaken. If someone claims to teach 'MMA' then it'll either be registered (licensed) as a teaching Practical Martial Arts, or a series of classes (based on the martial arts that were taught to the Sensai).

Though some of your claims could be said about the attitudes towards the sport, people like myself who train in 'Mixed Martial Arts' (kick-boxing, boxing, "traditional" jujitsu.etc.), and train for the 'MMA' experience know the difference between sporting and reality.

In the same Sense, MMA is taught worldwide to special forces, when they train in a variety of restraint techniques for instance (although the techniques themselves seem privatised to something called, "Special Forces Training", in reality they may be taught a wide viriety of techniques ranging all over from Krav Maga, Systema, Jujitsu,etcetc.)

The illicit or illegitimate categorisation of MMA as a martial art at least to me seems to stem from the unique strength training that they do for combat in the cage. That also seems to stem from the training Bruce Lee did, all of which was built into his Tao to JKD. So the strength training for the most part at least to me is considered an aspect of JKD, with progression of course from modern physiology muscle development methods; but the rest of it from what I've experienced can all be boiled down into different martial arts.

At 3/14/11 08:03 PM, FalconKeeper wrote: I am Michael, and I have been taking Shaolin Chuan'Fa for the past two years.

Oh and welcome, I hope you enjoy your time in our discussions!

I was doing some research into Ch'aun Fa, and I love old 70's videos. There so cheesy!

At 3/14/11 08:15 PM, FalconKeeper wrote: At 3/14/11 02:38 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: :
I agree, however, if you actually plan on being any half decent Martial Artist you shouldn't be doing anything mindlessly, like you said that repetition is. In my experience, the repetition allows your body to remember the moves you have been practicing when you are least expecting it. The sets, forms, and katas, all have a purpose, and that is to strengthen your body, and to teach you technique. The only trouble is, that most people do not repetition productive, they usually see it as boring.

Absolutely. It's about instilling muscle memory and teaching your body to react in a given way. I focus on every fiber of my body when I'm learning a motion, feeling how every nuance of it affects every other in order to understand it nand filling it with my awareness and energy, not just to learn to do it.

I also see a problem with this growing, "MMA is GAWD!" mindset that everbody seems to have. Sure, MMA can be useful, if you are in a cage, one on one, and in a competition. The only problem is, it doesn't teach you shit if you are ever held up by a gun, knife, club, or are attacked by a group. What are you supposed to do, start punching, and hope that you hit them all? MMA isn't really practical. It's a practice that encourages telegraphing, and promotes violence.

I think that lots of poorly educated (on MA) people see cagefighters on TV and think "oh my god, those guys are fucking studs, they're so cool MMA is the shit."

I will argue all day long that MMA is practical and IS a legitimate martial art (you're next Griffon :P), but I will also argue all day long that it provides nothing SPECIFIC whatsoever for fighting against an armed opponent or multiple opponents. I've used MMA techniques in spars and controlled combat with friends and associates, nearly all of which have been combat trained in one way or another, effectively EVERY time, regardless of what they came at me with. Sure, I don't ALWAYS win, and no, I don't ONLY use MMA techniques (I tend to be a lot more loose, floppy and Systema-esque, but I use a lot of submission wrestling/grappling and kicking I learned from MMA), but I will not back off my position that it's useful for one-on-one fighting.

And as per encouraging telegraphing: I think that's just in your experience. In MY experience they hammered telegraphing right out of me, and it was one of the first things I was worked with about. Granted, my gym had a bunch of really good fighters who understood the PRINCIPLES (once again) and didn't just know how to repeat what they'd been taught really well. Many of them came from diverse backgrounds, lots of Muay Thai and boxing/kickboxing. EVERY man in that gym showed me how I telegraphed when we were doing kickboxing (I was used to more sporadic movements Ala Systema, so the structure of boxing/kickboxing/Muay Thai was foreign to me at the time).

At 3/15/11 12:31 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote: MMA isn't a Martial Art.

HA HA HA HA HA (no offense dude, I respect you for sure) what a dumb thing to say.

Any martial artist should be able to tell you that. It's illusive the think of 'Mixed Martial Arts' as any single martial art. Hence, the practicalities of MMA are relative to the arts undertaken. If someone claims to teach 'MMA' then it'll either be registered (licensed) as a teaching Practical Martial Arts, or a series of classes (based on the martial arts that were taught to the Sensai).

Martial arts evolve, conglomerate and fuse over time. It happened in Japan, it happened in China, it happened in Thailand, and it's happened now all over the world with globalization in the 20th and 21st century.

The Phrase "Mixed Martial Artist" is arbitrary. It originally, yes, did entail or imply that someone trained in different arts and mixed their techniques, however just like any other language the MEANING is APPLIED and we now have DROVES of schools and teachers teaching hybrid arts incorporating grappling, striking and the variations thereof under the guise of MMA, thereby giving birth to a new meaning to the phrase which is just as applicable. As such, saying that just because someone learns all of their techniques in one place discounts them from being a "legitimate" mixed martial artist who practices a "legitimate" martial art is petty and foolish, and a discrepency of language at its core.

A martial art is any system of combat instruction and technique. Period.

Though some of your claims could be said about the attitudes towards the sport, people like myself who train in 'Mixed Martial Arts' (kick-boxing, boxing, "traditional" jujitsu.etc.), and train for the 'MMA' experience know the difference between sporting and reality.

I agree that MMA leaves out a lot of things that arts like Krav Maga, Systema, Monocrom's RBSD and the like teach about real-world situations. However once again, it's like saying that Karate, TKD, Muay Thai, Boxing and Jiu Jitsu aren't valid or effective martial arts for use in such situations because of the same reason. It would be more appropriate to say "they aren't AS useful for learning how to defend against an attack by an opponent with a weapon or a friend," than to say "they are useless for a real-world encounter."

I GUARANTEE you that my non-Systema martial arts training would benefit me in a street fight against an armed opponent. For one: Reflexes and instinct. For two: Techniques for doing harm. For three: A combat mindset.

In the same Sense, MMA is taught worldwide to special forces, when they train in a variety of restraint techniques for instance (although the techniques themselves seem privatised to something called, "Special Forces Training", in reality they may be taught a wide viriety of techniques ranging all over from Krav Maga, Systema, Jujitsu,etcetc.)

The illicit or illegitimate categorisation of MMA as a martial art at least to me seems to stem from the unique strength training that they do for combat in the cage. That also seems to stem from the training Bruce Lee did, all of which was built into his Tao to JKD. So the strength training for the most part at least to me is considered an aspect of JKD, with progression of course from modern physiology muscle development methods; but the rest of it from what I've experienced can all be boiled down into different martial arts.

Illicit and illegitimate... You ARE a purist my friend. And Illicit wouldn't be the right word for what you're saying (Merriam Webster: Illicit=not permitted. Permitted by who?), although illegitimate would.

Have you ever actually attended a class at an MMA school?

Yes, it is a CONGLOMERATE OF TECHNIQUES FROM OTHER ARTS. Like I said before, ALL arts today are the same thing, evolutions of other arts which preceeded them, just not all to the same extent or as tangibly. The strength training etc. has nothing to do with its nomenclature, nor does any derivation of or similarity to JKD's physiological knowledge and techniques.

It is called Mixed Martial Arts because people started applying techniques from different martial arts in the same gym.

It's that simple.

At 3/15/11 05:37 PM, Lagerkapo wrote:

Well as anybody dedicated to learning is I'll just take all of that on board, though read below and try and correct me as much as possible.

Have you ever actually attended a class at an MMA school?

Just came out of one, for the first time in 4 months! Foots finally starting to get better and people are happy to see me, all is well!

Yes, it is a CONGLOMERATE OF TECHNIQUES FROM OTHER ARTS. Like I said before, ALL arts today are the same thing, evolutions of other arts which preceeded them, just not all to the same extent or as tangibly. The strength training etc. has nothing to do with its nomenclature, nor does any derivation of or similarity to JKD's physiological knowledge and techniques.

It is called Mixed Martial Arts because people started applying techniques from different martial arts in the same gym.

It's that simple.

My argument with it is if you are applying techniques from different martial arts, then how can it be classified as a martial art. Though I haven't experienced it anywhere else, I don't think they would train the exact same way everywhere. Like my instructor did largely Karate before moving on to Kickboxing, and studied all over the world before ending up doing what he does now, so I've always envisioned (more or less assumed) the composition of my training has been largely such, and hence based on the subjective aspects of the instructors defines how they teach 'Mixed Martial Arts' as a martial art.

Maybe I'm thinking too linearly and not dynamic enough. I guess I just don't like the term Mixed Martial Arts, and considering it a single martial art. Rather the term I like to use, practical martial arts (the practicalities of various martial arts coming into effect) - seems to stem from my appeal to the JKD philosophy, apply only what is useful.

Though the definitions as far as I can tell are the same for Practical Martial Arts and JKD they are different in the way that there taught - where Mixed Martial Arts in definition doesn't seem to be either of these things, it seems to suggest something much more subjective then that, being the composition of martial arts generally for sporting purposes, rather than practical (realistic training) purposes.

The way I see it, Martial arts can come into three categories.

Traditional (for aesthetic reasons). Practical (by my definition, self defence reasons). And Sport (sporting reasons). I train in all three but in different places, which might explain where I'm going wrong with the way I'm seeing things. And of course all sorts of martial arts cross over into all three categories to some extent. But the important thing is to remember what your training in and why your training in it.

At 3/15/11 05:54 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote:

At 3/15/11 05:37 PM, Lagerkapo wrote:

Well as anybody dedicated to learning is I'll just take all of that on board, though read below and try and correct me as much as possible.

Such is why I have respect for you: You'll consider people's standpoints. As will I.

Have you ever actually attended a class at an MMA school?

Just came out of one, for the first time in 4 months! Foots finally starting to get better and people are happy to see me, all is well!

Very good. Injuries suck.

Yes, it is a CONGLOMERATE OF TECHNIQUES FROM OTHER ARTS. Like I said before, ALL arts today are the same thing, evolutions of other arts which preceeded them, just not all to the same extent or as tangibly. The strength training etc. has nothing to do with its nomenclature, nor does any derivation of or similarity to JKD's physiological knowledge and techniques.

It is called Mixed Martial Arts because people started applying techniques from different martial arts in the same gym.

It's that simple.

My argument with it is if you are applying techniques from different martial arts, then how can it be classified as a martial art. Though I haven't experienced it anywhere else, I don't think they would train the exact same way everywhere. Like my instructor did largely Karate before moving on to Kickboxing, and studied all over the world before ending up doing what he does now, so I've always envisioned (more or less assumed) the composition of my training has been largely such, and hence based on the subjective aspects of the instructors defines how they teach 'Mixed Martial Arts' as a martial art.

Nomenclature issue. It IS a martial art; It is a system of combat.

Every teacher of every art (or system, or fresh martial art that is only newly established under a controversial name :D) will be different, and it's a total grey area in regards to how much variation merits what kind of titling.

Maybe I'm thinking too linearly and not dynamic enough. I guess I just don't like the term Mixed Martial Arts, and considering it a single martial art. Rather the term I like to use, practical martial arts (the practicalities of various martial arts coming into effect) - seems to stem from my appeal to the JKD philosophy, apply only what is useful.

Indeed. It's, once again, just an issue of nomenclature. It IS an art, it IS being trained, practiced, taught, perfected and applied.

Though the definitions as far as I can tell are the same for Practical Martial Arts and JKD they are different in the way that there taught - where Mixed Martial Arts in definition doesn't seem to be either of these things, it seems to suggest something much more subjective then that, being the composition of martial arts generally for sporting purposes, rather than practical (realistic training) purposes.

I would argue that it's USED for sport more than intended for sport. Some schools teach for competition, some teach for pure combat. Mine was some of both. It's a matter of WHO you're learning from more than anything.

The way I see it, Martial arts can come into three categories.

Traditional (for aesthetic reasons). Practical (by my definition, self defence reasons). And Sport (sporting reasons). I train in all three but in different places, which might explain where I'm going wrong with the way I'm seeing things. And of course all sorts of martial arts cross over into all three categories to some extent. But the important thing is to remember what your training in and why your training in it.

Indeed. It's a measure of the individual how they want to apply their knowledge.

At 3/15/11 06:02 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: Nomenclature issue. It IS a martial art; It is a system of combat.

Oh okay I see what your saying. Thanks!

Anyway, the whole thing with my foot. It hurts a little bit now after training but during training it was okay.

I suppose I should expect it after coming out of a 4 month recovery period to have aches and gripes on the road to recovery (always better than the road to ruin) but I'm not sure if what I'm doing is the right thing.

I guess I'll consult my doctor, but has anybody has any injury experience that they've felt cautious about?

At 3/15/11 06:12 PM, ArmouredGRIFFON wrote:

At 3/15/11 06:02 PM, Lagerkapo wrote: Nomenclature issue. It IS a martial art; It is a system of combat.

Oh okay I see what your saying. Thanks!

:D

Anyway, the whole thing with my foot. It hurts a little bit now after training but during training it was okay.

I suppose I should expect it after coming out of a 4 month recovery period to have aches and gripes on the road to recovery (always better than the road to ruin) but I'm not sure if what I'm doing is the right thing.

I guess I'll consult my doctor, but has anybody has any injury experience that they've felt cautious about?

I had a lit of issues with my right knee after wrestling in eigth grade and when I was doing MMA. The joint was fine, but the nerves on the surface were hyper-sensitive from my skin being stretched across mats and shit.

It's better now though, I've been away from ground-intensive stuff for a long time.

Im a martial artist, Im here now what?

At 3/15/11 07:35 PM, Cootie wrote: I did a mixture of martial arts (not to be confused with MMA) for around 9 months training 6-7 hours per week. I gained one belt rank before I quit which is good. My teachers were pretty hardcore, and I got my noise and lips busted quite a few times in that class.

I liked the fact that we learned practical things like straight punches, hooks, and proper guard technique. Classes that teach "super 720 dragon kicks" are a bit silly in my opinion.

Excellent. And its good to hold your opinion. I would dispute (not strongly but against it) that there completely silly, and that there completely impractical. A lot of skill and effort is required to really master those complicated kicks which throw your body weight around substantially (but again perhaps a bit excessively). Again a lot of skill and effort is required to master throwing a good jab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sot-X4Vo ec

I came across this, I love the music (first). Might train to it. But have you noticed how many times the Karate fighter opens his attacks with a cross (and a fucking I'll enphisise that fucking good one at that). You can really see the Karate form kick in every time they throw it, just watch their feet.

If anybody has studied Karate (I haven't had the honour) can anybody relate to the techniques in this video?

Its the same way that I've been taught to throw crosses (ideally I'd keep my feet a little tighter in), but watch how much he's moving, and then how effectively he snaps into that form. He must be completely focused, he just has to be.

Its kind of beautiful, check this out guys!

At 3/15/11 07:35 PM, Cootie wrote: I did a mixture of martial arts (not to be confused with MMA) for around 9 months training 6-7 hours per week. I gained one belt rank before I quit which is good. My teachers were pretty hardcore, and I got my noise and lips busted quite a few times in that class.

I liked the fact that we learned practical things like straight punches, hooks, and proper guard technique. Classes that teach "super 720 dragon kicks" are a bit silly in my opinion.

Acrobatics aren't practical at all unless you're a world-class fighter in the first place. I've seen plenty of videos of TKD guys knocking people the fuck out with perfect spinning butterfly kicks and backheels and shit, but they've been doing it for years and years and years and it's usually the TKD guy who TRIES it that gets fucked up by the guy who counters it.

It's just way too much body commitment for a single motion.

Now I know this is off topic and such, but has anybody else here seen the Chinese martial art film, IP Man? As dumb of a statement as it is to make, I find it to be the single greatest martial arts based film, period.

Urban Freeflow - "Short but interesting vid from Russia's In Motion Team which goes to show that if you really want to get out there and train, the elements don't have to be viewed as an obstacle that stops you..."

http://www.youtube.com/user/inMotionTeam