At 5/5/06 01:11 AM, Monocrom wrote:

BTW, don't worry about your bleeding fingers......... that's why they make bandages. ;)

Ow...

Anyways, I'm testing for 2nd Dan in June, I think....

How long does it take for someone from 1st to go to 2nd in ur schools? In mine it usually takes 2 yrs, but I took 3, and one kid i know took 1.5 yrs.

At 5/5/06 01:11 AM, Monocrom wrote: The technique of wrapping the guy's arm around his own neck sounds intriguing. It would easily work against most of the folks I've met in my life. (Probably not too effective against someone with thick arms and a firm handshake).

True, in most cases it probably wouldn't work but it's the concept that we get from it that counts. I would have never thought of choking someone with his own arm if not for the technique.

BTW, don't worry about your bleeding fingers......... that's why they make bandages. ;)

What are there "bandages" you speak of?

When you start bleeding, you know it's time to push yourself harder.

^That^ would sound a lot better if the context wasn't typing :-/

Fremen:
Good luck with your test!
In my school there is a manditory wait of one year inbetween 1st and 2nd degree black, then a manditory wait of two years inbetween 2nd and 3rd and so on and so forth..... But if you don't work hard, it can take longer, a lot longer.

Question: So you were twelve when you got your 1sd degree black? And just out of curiosity how many forms and techniques do you have to do to get your 2nd black? And what else do your tests involve?

At 5/5/06 02:46 PM, fremen13 wrote: I'm testing for 2nd Dan in June, I think....

How long does it take for someone from 1st to go to 2nd in ur schools? In mine it usually takes 2 yrs, but I took 3, and one kid i know took 1.5 yrs.

Good luck to you. I'm sure you'll do well.

There is no rank system in R.B.S.D. ........... Just a progression from Beginner - Intermediate - Advanced - Instructor level lessons. That's all there is. However, at least one prominent R.B.S.D. Instructor has changed his mind and wants to introduce some sort of official ranking system. This is due to the fact that it is very easy for a con-man or an arm-chair warrior to claim that he is a skilled R.B.S.D. practioner; and therefore, a good Instructor. (No rank system means, no way to challenge a person's claim of being well-skilled)............. But the flip-side of that arguement is, there are a lot of McDojos; a lot of folks running around with Dan ranks that they haven't actually earned and therefore don't deserve.

Creating an official ranking system in R.B.S.D. presents 2 major problems:
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1) It could easily lead to the creation of more schools designed ONLY for making $$$. Getting an official, high, rank (without putting in any real effort) would just be an incentive that a con-man could use for getting more students in the door. No official rank system = you get judged based on your skill alone.

2) R.B.S.D. works differently than most martial arts, with regards to structure. You generally will NOT see franchise schools of R.B.S.D., they all tend to be independent of each other. (If you find a school that is part of a franchise, take a good look at it. Chances are; it's a waste of $$$). The point is, if you're a 2nd Dan in any other Art, other practioners of that Art will show you a certain amount of respect. If you're a 2nd Dan in Kenpo, and you move away and attend another Kenpo school; your rank will be respected at your new school........... Not so with R.B.S.D. ! If one R.B.S.D. school comes up with an official ranking system, that system is only good at that school! If you move away and attend a new R.B.S.D. school, and you say (for example) "I'm a 2nd Dan in R.B.S.D," they're all going to laugh at you. (The Instructors & the students)! Your rank isn't going to be recognized by other practioners, outside of your school.

i got back from ninjutsu today.. and lately ive been pairing up with higher up guys (we got a new 1st Dan, the only one so far) and those guys are fun to train with. these guys were in military and they have been doing this and army stuff and it makes things interesting to say the least. anyway, ive been having fun, and getting alot more of a work-out, like I got home today looking like i had gotten out of the shower abot 15 or so minutes because my hair was so wet from all my sweat. we did a bit of defense against gun stuff today, and my teacher told us over and over how bad it is to grab the gun, in any way while doing it (like i said, hes in the military and has fired guns so he knows the guns anatomy), he didnt name any specific styles that had done it the way he said not to, but it reminded me of the Krav maga stuff that the purple talked about.
oh, and some fun things to do when practicing techniques agaisnt grabs is to close your eyes and then do them. it really adds a whole new dimension to the technique when you do that, and it works agaisnt knives too. if guns are there then you need your sight so dont try it unless you want to miserably fail at the technique.

oh, and faces, do you know where the North Las Vegas Athletic Club is? its a bit far for me (for now, at least), but our new Dan is going to teach some ninjutsu there tomorrow (Saturday) at 6 if your interested (it came to mind since you live in Las Vegas, so whether you want to go or not is not to you, just if your interested). if you decide to go it'll be $5 for two hours. i wont be there, i have alot planned for tommorrow, and i dont think i can get my parents to drive me down, so ill have to get my license before i can go.

everyone else: i got a joint locking seminar tommorrow, i can go off about how cool it was after i go, if your interested. there was supposed to be a ninjutsu seminar on swords and some other fun things, but it got cancelled, so im settling for the chinese secrets of locking joints.

To: Ts -
????????
Please tell me that I misinterpreted part of your last post........

The part about practicing a knife disarming technique by......... closing your eyes, and finding the technique to be effective?!

(If I didn't misinterprete that, all I can say is; a dull trainer is one thing, and a sharp blade is another. Generally it's MUCH easier to disarm someone with a gun, than a knife, because there's no cutting edge on a gun).

mono: no no, the technique doesnt involved closing your eyes itself, its just fun to get a diffrent feel by closing your eyes. what we were doing was having someone grab our chest with one hand, and put the knife agaisnt our neck. we would get our bodies away from the knive by stepping to the side, pin their grabbing hand down with our close arm (arm, not hand), and push the knife hand away with that hand, and then use one of our base unarmed techniques to disarm or get opponent down so we can either run away or whatever. because of the way the technique was we could close our eyes and go do the technique (its not a solid technique either, our opponent would fight to get away and switch the knife to their other hand) and we tried to 'feel' our way through the technique rather then getting our eyes caught on some parts. its kind of hard to explain, but once you do its kind of fun to do. if i were to use the technique in real life i wouldnt close my eyes, but this is training and this kind of ties in what i was saying earlier, not having a set place to look for my eyes, you do it more by feeling then following your eyes. you can try it too, just have a friend grab your wrist or chest, close your eyes, and try and get out of that. what if your in a dark alley and cant see? this will help there too..

ya, guns cant cut you, but all your attacker has to do is pull the trigger and if your holding if gun your gonna have burns and riped pieces of flesh (if you grab the barrel), so when we did the technique (it was basically the same technique, the grabbed either our wrist or our chest, and they hand a weapon) and in both we would go after the wrist of the enemy rather then their weapon, the gun was diffrent because if your opponent already has his gun fully drawn and on your chest then its pretty much over already, because dodgeing a knife is one thing, you can get cut and live, but if you get shot, well... thats an entirely diffrent matter.

To: Ts -
Thanks for clarifying. :)

As for being in a dark alley, I'm grabbing my Inova X5 and shining up that alley! (It's just SO much better than my mini-maglite, that I decided to put up with carrying it in the belt-holster)........ Also, LOL, I must be drunk off my ass to go wandering down an alley, as a short-cut. But don't misunderstand, I can see other situations where I'd get attacked in the dark; and not have my pocket-torches on me.

Regarding Handgun Disarms:
They generally require a great deal of speed & accuracy to pull off. All you need is at least one really effective technique and a shitload of practice!

to Mono: Yeh, but I want to raisethe point that all techniques need speed, but the difference between those techniques and gun/knife techniques is that you need a hell of alot more deliberation (spelling?) anyways, you need to be twice as efficient and deliberate than with normal techniques, not twice as fast.

To Theban: I got my belt right after I turned 11 on Apr. 20 (test date) so I guess it was 4 yrs. But that was too long because I skipped three summers of Karate after my Dan. I was supposed to test Jan. 28, but I got a fever. And now im supposed to test Jun. 10, but I'm gonna be in Ohio for vacation. And as for forms and techniques...at least 3 weapons forms (in different weapons), about 70 something techniques and some where around 15-20 forms. I get the higher end of the forms deal since I've been there so long, so that kinda sucks. I personally have about 10-15 wepons forms, it matters if we're counting my basic blocking and striking ones, 90 something techniques, 20 something forms, and about 50 terms in Japanese (i think) for my test. This is gonna hurt...And our first Dan test involves a lot of physical conditioning to make sure our black belts and strong in the body, a lot of yelling and trying to break them to make sure they're strong in the mind ( that includes making them do stupid stuff to embarass them), and also, we test their knowledge of the arts.

At 5/6/06 09:15 AM, fremen13 wrote: I was supposed to test Jan. 28, but I got a fever. And now im supposed to test Jun. 10, but I'm gonna be in Ohio for vacation.

So your test is going to be delayed again? And where in Ohio are you going? (Just curious, I live in Ohio :)

And as for forms and techniques...

Our black belt tests involve hard work but the way you describe it, your tests sound more like boot camp.

Just so I understand you correctly: You have 90 techniques total? You have 20 forms total? And you have 10-15 weapons forms total? Or is that just what you have to do for your test?

As far as the japanese terms, we don't learn any in my school except for the names of the different belts. Do you know why you learn them?

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Question for anyone who's knowledgeable in this area: In my system we have several techniques against a gun pointed to various different places on your body. One of these techniques inparticular is against a gun to the left side of your body, lets say your heart. At the same time you quickly step up with your right, turn to the side (so the gun isn't pointed at you any more) and do a left ridge hand to your opponents arm that's holding the gun. You then imediately reach your right hand over and grab your opponents hand and gun at the same time (there's some follow-up moves but they're irrelivent for the moment). I'm not very good with temonology when it comes to guns so I hope you can picture where your hand would have to be and what part of the gun your hand would be on to grab both your opponents hand and his gun with one hand. If I were to do this technique for real, would my hand be in any danger of being burned?

At 5/6/06 11:08 AM, ThebanLegion wrote:

So your test is going to be delayed again? And where in Ohio are you going? (Just curious, I live in Ohio :)

I think its somewhere within a 50-mile radius of akron...yeah...I'm not really sure.

Our black belt tests involve hard work but the way you describe it, your tests sound more like boot camp.

One of our black belts went to boot camp and said the test was harder :)

Just so I understand you correctly: You have 90 techniques total? You have 20 forms total? And you have 10-15 weapons forms total? Or is that just what you have to do for your test?

I have all of those, and I have to go through all of them and explain everything on my test. It's basically all knowledge they're testing for.

As far as the japanese terms, we don't learn any in my school except for the names of the different belts. Do you know why you learn them?

Its part of the curriculum. It's just general knowledge.

If I were to do this technique for real, would my hand be in any danger of being burned?

I think that if you do it the way you described here in real life it would be worth it. And yes, you might get burnt, but thats why they have bandages :)

At 5/6/06 11:08 AM, ThebanLegion wrote: Question for anyone who's knowledgeable in this area: (insert the rest here) If I were to do this technique for real, would my hand be in any danger of being burned?

It depends on where you grab the gun, if you grab the barrel you'll be in temporary shock leaving you open to a finishing blow. If you grab the handle, be sure to control his/her fingers to control where the gun is pointed* allowing you to disable & finally finish your assailant.

*some training to get this skill are:
Various Shaolin Chin Na techniques, alternating one-finger push-ups (don't attempt this until you can do at least 100 push-ups), & lop-sao.

i just back from the joint-locking seminar. it was nothing too spectacular, ive already learned a ninjutsu-version of alot of the locks. but it was better then just sitting here on the computer like i would've if i hadn't gone.

At 5/6/06 11:43 AM, purpleninja wrote:

alternating one-finger push-ups (don't attempt this until you can do at least 100 push-ups)

It doesn't matter if you have great arm strength. What matters is finger strength, I think what you meant was dont attempt 1 finger push ups unless you can do 100 fingertip pushups.

To: fr13 -
Speed usually comes as a result of 2 things: Smoothness in practicing a technique & eliminating as many steps as you can from the technique. (One of the Founders of R.B.S.D. said it best, "If I can draw my knife in one step, and it takes you 3 steps to draw your's; guess which one of us is going to be faster").
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To: Ts -
Glad to hear you enjoyed the seminar.
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To: Theban -
Knowing the various firearms terms would help. But if you're grabbing the attacker's hand and part of the gun, with ONE of your hands; chances are you're grabbing the grip of the gun. (See pic below). If that's the case, your hand will NOT get burned. Doesn't matter if you're grabbing the grip on a revolver or an automatic. Either way = no burns on your hand.

about guns: i figure its diffinetely(sp?) better, regardless of type of gun, that its best to grab the handle or the guys wrist. ive been thinking today, and there seems to be like a 'danger' area on all weapons, and that is generally when skin ends and metal parts begin (knife or gun, same pinciple for the most part). i hope you guys understand what im saying.

looking back, i think im doing much better then i was when i begun. i dont want to judge my own progress, i think its best if someone else tells me if ive done better, because i dont trust that im going to give myself the most realistic measure of how much better im doing. personally, i think im doing better then when i begun, but when i see my friend and i get a chance to spar with him ill be able to have him tell me how much better i am. or worse, incase im completely wrong about how im doing.

At 5/6/06 11:23 AM, fremen13 wrote: I think its somewhere within a 50-mile radius of akron...yeah...I'm not really sure.

That's cool, I live about thirty miles from Akron.

I think that if you do it the way you described here in real life it would be worth it. And yes, you might get burnt, but thats why they have bandages :)

Ban-dag-es??? You crazy people and your voodoo magic ,':-\

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Anyway, thanks everyone for your input. The way you would grab the gun is kinda hard to explain. You would be grabbing it from the top but you would mostly be grabbing your attackers hand pinning his fingers onto the gun and gaining control over it in that manner. It would also depend on the kind of gun, based on the gun depicted in the picture provided by mono I believe that if done right you would be grabbing the gun in such a way that your hand wouldn't be in any danger of touching a part of the gun that might become heated.

Ts: Yes, I agree that you should try to grab the handle as much as possible, that's pretty much what you're trying to do in the technique I described. However I wouldn't want to just grab someones wrist because then you wouldn't have complete control as your attacker would still be able to turn his wrist. But yeah, I get what your saying about the danger zone for weapons, if you grab too far off your mark you likely to get hurt.

To: Theban -
If you're coming down on top and pinning his fingers, you have to make sure his index finger isn't already on the trigger........ otherwise, he'd still be able to get off at least one round.

At 4/30/06 03:38 PM, fremen13 wrote:

At 4/30/06 01:54 PM, XxGreivousxX wrote: Hi there!

I am a taekwondo second degree black belt. My master is planning to send me to Korea this summer to have personal training with one of the most harshest taekwondo master of the world. Damn...

They are going to see Pai Mei...
whoops he is in china my bad

At 4/30/06 05:20 PM, Tsuchiya wrote:

modern ninjutsu doesnt really emphasize stealth, at least not at the point im at in my training, we mostly do fighting stuff. its really not that diffrent from other arts. i think that later in my training ill be taught some stealth stuff, but not yet. if you like i can give some links to video of ninjutsu (one of them is like a short movie, they do all kinds of stuff that we dont actually do, the other was recorded at a seminar so its the techniques).

That's cool like I said I have my "ninjitsu bible" from Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi ... and I love seeing all the cool thinigs in there, does your Ninjitsu atyile still practice the Kuji Kiri hand techniques???

Mono: What if his/her finger is on the trigger? What choice would I have? Even if he does get one shot off, just so long as it doesn't hit me or anyone else, it would still be worth it to save your life. If you have the time you should wait for the best possible conditions but when it comes to a life or death situation I don't think it's worth the risk in most cases.

Does R.B.S.D. have any concepts/techniques that deal with this problem?

blamurai: to my knowledge it does, but only to the way high up guys (i found out today that they have a name, his personal students, some kind of title, i forgot what it was though) but at the lvl i am and the more casual practicioners we dont do it.

btw, that 'bible' of yours, can i ask the title? i want to see if i have it or not, i have 3 or 4 of his books and i need to complete my collection.

At 5/7/06 02:09 AM, Tsuchiya wrote:

.

btw, that 'bible' of yours, can i ask the title? i want to see if i have it or not, i have 3 or 4 of his books and i need to complete my collection.

I belive it is called " History and Tradtion of Ninjitsu or Ninjitsu Traditoin and History

There's a Kraz Maga gym that I'm intrested in going to. Man I wish martial arts wasn't so expensive though. I used to take Kyokushin Kai Karate. anything to help keep the pounds off.

At 5/7/06 02:40 AM, hongkongexpress wrote: There's a Kraz Maga gym that I'm intrested in going to. Man I wish martial arts wasn't so expensive though. I used to take Kyokushin Kai Karate. anything to help keep the pounds off.

I here ya there brotha.. I gained like 20 pounds after a year off... how ever I have started back up, Krav maga eh... thats close quarters fighting.. it is cool

At 5/7/06 01:37 AM, ThebanLegion wrote: Mono: What if his/her finger is on the trigger? What choice would I have? Even if he does get one shot off, just so long as it doesn't hit me or anyone else, it would still be worth it to save your life. If you have the time you should wait for the best possible conditions but when it comes to a life or death situation I don't think it's worth the risk in most cases.

Does R.B.S.D. have any concepts/techniques that deal with this problem?

I actually agree with you......... as long as a practioner is actually good enough and fast enough to make sure he doesn't get hit by that one bullet. R.B.S.D. does have techniques for dealing with this problem. But they are very difficult to descibe on an internet forum. (It really is the sort of thing you have to SEE, in order to understand). The most important aspect of the techniques is to definitely pivot off the center-line. Don't stand in the same spot! This is really frustrating because I can't accurately describe the techniques involved.
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To: blam -
With regards to Krav Maga, we have a recent member to the club who has taken that Art. His name is purpleninja. Check out his honest description of his experience with this particular Art. (It's his 1st post on page 146 in our club). Very eye-opening.

At 5/7/06 12:28 AM, ThebanLegion wrote:

Ban-dag-es??? You crazy people and your voodoo magic ,':-\

lol

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Anyway, thanks everyone for your input. The way you would grab the gun is kinda hard to explain.

I wouldn't grab the gun. Say someone was holding it to my forehead. What We are taught is 2 things: Get out of the guns friggin' way, and disable them as quickly as possible, and I think Mono said. I would lean my head, grab their forearm, deliver some one haneded strikes/ kicks, then turn around,break the arm over my back then pull the arm into me back kick. yes, that hurts, but if my life was in danger I wouldn't hesitate to do that.

PS: sry for not posting, I was doing a twenty mile walk for hunger in Boston. :)

At 5/7/06 08:32 PM, fremen13 wrote: PS: sry for not posting, I was doing a twenty mile walk for hunger in Boston. :)

Why would you do a 20-mile walk FOR hunger?
Are there really that many fat-ass people in Boston that promoting hunger would be a good idea?

(Sorry, I know what you meant. It's an extremely worthwhile cause. Good job......... I just couldn't resist. Sorry).

Mono: I know what you mean about difficulty describing techniques. Yes pivoting off the center line is very important but in some techniques we do, it's not necissary as we will move the gun up rather than to the side. When it comes right down too it there is no safe way to defend against a gun attack, as you said a practitioner just has to be good enough and fast enough, but success still isn't a given.

Fremen: The problem I have with not grabbing the gun is a lack of control, if you are quick enough then all you have to do is hope your attacker isn't quicker because regardles of how much training you have, he/she still has the upper hand. In some cases I can imagine the concept of getting out of the friggen way and disabling your attacker as quickly as possible as the best option but the concept of self defence that I am most familiar with is gaining the upper hand immediately. If I can control where that gun points then I have gained some control, even though he still has control over the trigger it's better than him having complete control over the guns function and direction. These are only my initial thoughts, are there any specific benefits to "getting out of the friggen way" that grabbing the gun cannot provide?

To: Theban -
The problem I have with standing in the same spot, and moving the gun up (rather than to the side) is that; instead of being pointed at your torso, now the gun is pointed at your throat or your head. If he squeezes off that one shot, your chances of surviving have gone down considerably! It's vital to get off the center-line and gain control of the gun as quickly as possible.

Mono: The perticulalar technique that I was refering to is based on a gun being pointed to one side of your chest or the other, not the center. It involves some quick motions that would make it very unlikely for that gun to be pointed at your throat/head at any time, but unfortunantly they are a bit difficult to describe. You trap the arm in such a way that it will point upward and slightly away from you, it's still a risky technique but again, no gun technique is without danger.