Need strats post-burnout

[sincronikon]

Peeps, sorry I don't post here, but I'm looking for input / advice.

What languages are "the employers" clamouring for? Does anyone still give a damn about C++? Are we still treating JavaScript like it's real code? Is remote work finally accepted? Any input on getting "back into the game" would be appreciated.

After 20 years of code, life changed / care-giving / shit happened, and I no longer have a handle on in-demand languages and frameworks. Given that I used to hand-roll nearly everything while staring at "the blue room", I'm far less aware of what employers want than most people. I wanted to exit software development due to health, but it looks like I'll have to rely on this skill again soon, and need input.

[Gimmick]

JS and web development is still very common.

Java will outlast the heat death of the universe.

React, Angular(JS), Vue are some frameworks which are used in some places.

More companies have accepted remote work due to the pandemic, but over time quite a few have also started forcing employees back to the office. Overall though there are more remote positions than before.

But it really depends on the job you're targeting. Go through some listings and see which frameworks you need to learn and appeal to you. That being said, well, if you have 20 years of experience you're probably going to not be too involved in the actual grunt work of code - interviews would probably test your system design and architecture skills more than low-level raw leetcode skills. Although it doesn't hurt to grind leetcode either I suppose.

[Gimmick]

There's also the r/cscareerquestions subreddit, but that mainly consists of fresh grads and people with...honestly, kinda warped expectations of what the CS industry entails. Given your current position, I think you might benefit from looking through or asking in r/experienceddevs instead, although you should probably take things with a grain of salt there too because, well, people could just be larping there too - I haven't been on the sub long enough to say.

If you're out of date with the frameworks themselves but are clear on the fundamentals then you might be the perfect candidate for a bootcamp program. While these are tough for many people (since they mainly target non-CS backgrounds), I think someone with existing CS experience should find a lot of it very familiar.

Finally, if you're really hurting for a job, well I think the WITCH/AR (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL, and other "body shops", OR "temp/development/bootcamp"s like Aston Technologies and Revature) companies would probably be keen to hire anyone they can contract out to others. Given the economy, if required I would not shy away from this option if I had found it difficult to get a job (even if the latter's contract terms are kinda shady/legally unenforceable, all things considered).

[sincronikon]

Thanks for your responses! I can't run on "programmer time" anymore, but was up late briefly and wanted to give you the smiley. If anyone else wants to weigh in too, please do!

At 2/28/23 01:46 AM, Gimmick wrote: [...] Java will outlast the heat death of the universe.
[...] React, Angular(JS), Vue are some frameworks which are used in some places.
[...] Overall though there are more remote positions than before.
[...] if you have 20 years of experience you're probably going to not be too involved in the actual grunt work of code - interviews would probably test your system design and architecture skills [...]

Cursed Java ;)! In short, it's 20 years of experience spread out in a rather strange way. You're right, I'd be gunning for something along the lines of team lead / architect at this point. I can talk and type and know my stuff, but the 20-hour-days of coke-and-pizza are long gone. My tendons are basically shot, among other issues, lol.

Ahh Java. The only major language I somehow avoided. I assumed React/Angular would be out of favour, but I'm glad to hear they aren't -- good to know some things never change. I'm from the Microsoft camp for the most part, so I'd be looking at leveraging .NET / UWP / WinForms / ASP / T-SQL / etc. The only "sphere" I haven't touched yet is hardcore science stacks involving stuff like R, advanced math, or ad-hoc visualizations. Webdev, *nix, C++, MS vertical, etc, all A-OK. Sounds like there's hope :). Thanks!

There's also the r/cscareerquestions subreddit, but that mainly consists of fresh grads and people with...honestly, kinda warped expectations of what the CS industry entails. Given your current position, I think you might benefit from looking through or asking in r/experienceddevs instead, although you should probably take things with a grain of salt there too because, well, people could just be larping there too - I haven't been on the sub long enough to say.

Warped expectations, talk about it. It only took a few years of sitting around for old injuries to accumulate, so when I was caregiving for my deceased mother and lifted too much weight -- snap, game over. Do not pass go for several years.

I just told a starry-eyed CS-tuber to take exercise seriously and avoid over-work of any kind. Bolded for future readers' benefit, not yours :). I'll pass on the Reddit sphere -- but if someone else stumbles on this post, they might want to know about those subs! Thanks for the share!

If you're out of date with the frameworks themselves but are clear on the fundamentals then you might be the perfect candidate for a bootcamp program. While these are tough for many people (since they mainly target non-CS backgrounds), I think someone with existing CS experience should find a lot of it very familiar.

Self-taught Carmack-style here. Getting into 2D art, I'm seeing the same phenomenon all over again. "Fundamentals!", followed by being beaten with an ugly stick. That's just not for me. I suck on the firehose and figure it out.

A bootcamp, at this point, would be great for meeting people, but not for much else. I'd forgotten these things exist, frankly, and that I don't have to pretend I care about being top dog... so I'll chew on this suggestion a bit!

Finally, if you're really hurting for a job, well I think the WITCH/AR (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL, and other "body shops", OR "temp/development/bootcamp"s like Aston Technologies and Revature) companies would probably be keen to hire anyone they can contract out to others. Given the economy, if required I would not shy away from this option if I had found it difficult to get a job (even if the latter's contract terms are kinda shady/legally unenforceable, all things considered).

Ahh yes, recruiters. They have injected themselves into my local market with such force they're unavoidable. I'm currently fishing for bites with a passive resume to attract the bad recruiters early so that I can blacklist them. 6 jokers down in ~2 weeks, several more to go! :) "$200 just to talk with us!" -> sayonara! New grads, man, that's gotta be rough to navigate.

The other option I'm considering is a post-graduate degree. As you say, the economy... I'd have to first take a job to fund retraining. Stuff like Technical Writing is probably more my speed now, so I'm also thinking about pathways out of this locked-in code career choice.

Regardless, I'm glad to hear your honesty about shady deals. Everything's changed, but nothing's changed, based on your take. That vibe resonates with my life, and gives hope :). Thanks!

[Gimmick]

At 2/28/23 07:57 AM, sincronikon wrote: Ahh Java. The only major language I somehow avoided.

"Nobody ever got fired for choosing <IBM/Oracle>" ;)

I assumed React/Angular would be out of favour, but I'm glad to hear they aren't -- good to know some things never change.

Although new frameworks still come out regularly, the web dev scene has sort of consolidated a lot lately. Given that companies usually prefer mature, prod-ready stuff rather than something someone created out of their garage a week ago, I don't much see these frameworks going out of fashion anytime soon, especially when the cost of switching outdated stacks might not be worth the benefits for many.

I'm from the Microsoft camp for the most part, so I'd be looking at leveraging .NET / UWP / WinForms / ASP / T-SQL / etc. The only "sphere" I haven't touched yet is hardcore science stacks involving stuff like R, advanced math, or ad-hoc visualizations. Webdev, *nix, C++, MS vertical, etc, all A-OK. Sounds like there's hope :). Thanks!

Sounds like you're good to go, pretty much! Most of the hardcore sciencey stuff revolves around data science/analytics, and it's definitely got an air of prestige around it lately because of the explosion of AI. But it also probably needs someone specialized in those topics as well.

Machine/deep learning is easy to learn but hard to master. Personally, I wouldn't sweat it too much especially since your core competencies are in different domains. But if you do feel like dabbling in those, then PyTorch, kaggle and something like fastAI is a good place to start. (One thing I should mention is that far too many beginners focus on the machine learning or neural network model rather than cleaning the data they work on when it should be the other way around, which I don't blame them for - the former is sexy while the latter is mundane and sometimes soul-sucking)

As an aside, since chatGPT can generate code as well, I think such tools could be used to clear away a lot of the typing work that goes into writing code...although it does write straight garbage a lot at times too.

Warped expectations, talk about it. It only took a few years of sitting around for old injuries to accumulate, so when I was caregiving for my deceased mother and lifted too much weight -- snap, game over. Do not pass go for several years.

Condolences. And yeah if there's one thing I've taken away it's that lifting things can go wrong terribly - one of my friends had to help move a couch in his house and I don't know what happened, but he said he strained his back when lifting it. He luckily recovered quickly cause he's still young, but that was absolutely an avoidable accident from what I'd heard him describe it as.

I just told a starry-eyed CS-tuber to take exercise seriously and avoid over-work of any kind. Bolded for future readers' benefit, not yours :). I'll pass on the Reddit sphere -- but if someone else stumbles on this post, they might want to know about those subs! Thanks for the share!

No worries! And yeah I really should be taking exercise and sleep far more seriously! Complacency and inertia's a major pain in the ass..

A bootcamp, at this point, would be great for meeting people, but not for much else. I'd forgotten these things exist, frankly, and that I don't have to pretend I care about being top dog... so I'll chew on this suggestion a bit!

Same, I learn best from structured courses where I'm made to have to learn something with strict deadlines. Learning at my own pace might've worked for 10 y/o me when I was first starting programming, but even that came with an initial push from a(n admittedly basic) course in Flash.

Given your experience and prior knowledge, I don't think bootcamps would really be necessary for you since it might just be retreading familiar ground. Well, if you aren't losing any money from starting I don't see why it wouldn't be a problem, except some places lay out their contracts so they get a % of your earnings; this makes more sense for non-CS people trying to break into the industry but basically sounds like a shady recruiter with better PR, sooo caveat emptor :)

Ahh yes, recruiters. They have injected themselves into my local market with such force they're unavoidable. I'm currently fishing for bites with a passive resume to attract the bad recruiters early so that I can blacklist them. 6 jokers down in ~2 weeks, several more to go! :) "$200 just to talk with us!" -> sayonara! New grads, man, that's gotta be rough to navigate.

You can say that again. I'm glad to have lucked out with an internship leading to a full-time offer but I've also seen posts of fresh grads saying they had to send near a hundred or more applications before they got an interview, much less hired. Granted, they probably shotgunned them all but it's still a far higher ratio than I would expect others higher up the ladder to have.

The other option I'm considering is a post-graduate degree. As you say, the economy... I'd have to first take a job to fund retraining. Stuff like Technical Writing is probably more my speed now, so I'm also thinking about pathways out of this locked-in code career choice.

Post-graduate degrees are good if you can get in a funded program - some universities in some countries fund their graduate programs, others don't. I'm on the cusp of finishing a master's degree and it has been far less stressful to have it be funded (Canada) whereas my friends in the States, and even in other programs in the same university, have had to pay out of pocket for it with no funding. It's definitely an option worth exploring, even if only to pause the clock on your career for some time.

As for technical writing, I have no clue about it unfortunately so I can't say much about that.

Regardless, I'm glad to hear your honesty about shady deals. Everything's changed, but nothing's changed, based on your take. That vibe resonates with my life, and gives hope :). Thanks!

You're pretty much on the money with that assessment; good luck with your search!

[sincronikon]

I'm still blown away at how easily programmers connect compared to artists. I thought it would be the other way around!

At 2/28/23 12:48 PM, Gimmick wrote:

At 2/28/23 07:57 AM, sincronikon wrote:

"Nobody ever got fired for choosing <IBM/Oracle>" ;)

Hahaha :)

[...] Given that companies usually prefer mature, prod-ready stuff rather than something someone created out of their garage a week ago, I don't much see these frameworks going out of fashion anytime soon [...] Sounds like you're good to go, pretty much!

I hope things have settled down! Why move off Drupal or some ancient K&R C if we don't have to, eh? *furiously googles maintenance programmer*

Most of the hardcore sciencey stuff revolves around data science/analytics, and it's definitely got an air of prestige around it lately because of the explosion of AI. But it also probably needs someone specialized in those topics as well.
Machine/deep learning is easy to learn but hard to master. Personally, I wouldn't sweat it too much especially since your core competencies are in different domains. But if you do feel like dabbling in those, then PyTorch, kaggle and something like fastAI is a good place to start.
As an aside, since chatGPT can generate code as well

All good to know! The last ML lib I touched was MITIE to parse WikiPedia's dumps and write a subject-based question generator. Frankly, that level of algorithm work doesn't appeal anymore, but it's going to be unavoidable, so I'll check your mentioned links.

Condolences. And yeah if there's one thing I've taken away it's that lifting things can go wrong terribly - one of my friends had to help move a couch in his house and I don't know what happened, but he said he strained his back when lifting it. He luckily recovered quickly cause he's still young, but that was absolutely an avoidable accident from what I'd heard him describe it as.
No worries! And yeah I really should be taking exercise and sleep far more seriously! Complacency and inertia's a major pain in the ass..

Oof! Yeah, if the back goes, bad news! Condolences appreciated, and I hope your buddy learned :). That's all we can do. Exercise doesn't have to mean very much -- if strength isn't a goal, just stretching religiously on the hour will keep the ol' meatbag in place, at least :). Sleep, well, good luck with that for most of us, but I still had to say it :).

Same, I learn best from structured courses where I'm made to have to learn something with strict deadlines. Learning at my own pace might've worked for 10 y/o me when I was first starting programming, but even that came with an initial push from a(n admittedly basic) course in Flash.

Ohh, as in I'm far and away the opposite! Structured learning doesn't work, deadlines don't work, competitions don't work, and big group parties don't either. I have to experiment freely with no goal in mind. Fascinating how approaches differ, yet we all wind up at the same place eventually :).

I'm glad to have lucked out with an internship leading to a full-time offer but I've also seen posts of fresh grads saying they had to send near a hundred or more applications before they got an interview, much less hired.

Good stuff! Glad to hear you snuck in straight away! All of this experience is good to share. I do hope someone else stumbles on this chat! You're not joking about mass-application realities. Thing is, if you got the job that fast, it's likely because you invested some kind of effort up front that cost as much time as shotgunning resumes would have. Always give yourself credit :).

Post-graduate degrees are good if you can get in a funded program - some universities in some countries fund their graduate programs, others don't. I'm on the cusp of finishing a master's degree and it has been far less stressful to have it be funded (Canada) whereas my friends in the States, and even in other programs in the same university, have had to pay out of pocket for it with no funding. It's definitely an option worth exploring, even if only to pause the clock on your career for some time.

Canuck here too ;). I could tell the second you made it obvious you can handle walls of text. I don't know why, but our average writing skill + tolerance for reading seems to be a lot higher than elsewhere (language barriers excluded).

The dreaded OSAP will fund graduate degrees. Even though I don't believe in the educational institutions, I still tell people to "get something" because it opens doors like this later on. Mid-life-ish now, I'm glad I have that post-grad option.

Glad to hear you got funding for a master's! Whatever you use will be paid back in taxes within 6 months, LOL xD. Take all the financial help you can get, for sure.

You're pretty much on the money with that assessment; good luck with your search!

Thanks! Let's give this thread some space to breath in case someone else does drop by with something to add. I'll shoot you a PM if I have questions, and likewise, even if you just wanna say hi or some such ;). Thanks, be well!

[detergent1]

I just skimmed over everything

it's just that I remembered one additional spot: teacher. how does that fits you?

dunno how much it it worth money and dedication-wise.

[sincronikon]

At 3/7/23 08:58 PM, detergent1 wrote: I just skimmed over everything
it's just that I remembered one additional spot: teacher. how does that fits you?
dunno how much it it worth money and dedication-wise.

That's an awesome suggestion! Long ago, tutoring/teaching was a thought, but it got kicked on to the backburner. Not sure why. Money/dedication, ehh, that would be far less important than being able to help other people learn. Gonna put this towards the top of the list again... hmm, hmm.

Thanks! Hope to catch you 'round!

[23450]

At 3/7/23 09:45 PM, sincronikon wrote:

At 3/7/23 08:58 PM, detergent1 wrote: I just skimmed over everything
it's just that I remembered one additional spot: teacher. how does that fits you?
dunno how much it it worth money and dedication-wise.

That's an awesome suggestion! Long ago, tutoring/teaching was a thought, but it got kicked on to the backburner. Not sure why. Money/dedication, ehh, that would be far less important than being able to help other people learn. Gonna put this towards the top of the list again... hmm, hmm.

Thanks! Hope to catch you 'round!

I've been deep in software development for about 10 years now. I'm not entirely sure that it suits me though. The pandemic may have messed with my head a bit. I've been considering a change into teaching some day. This is partially because I am getting older, and the desire to spend my life in expensive tech cities is starting to wane. Teaching in a smaller community sounds like a much more relaxing way to spend my 40's or 50's.

Obviously, I have no idea where your head is at. But keep an open mind.

As for the original line of questioning. I feel like Gimmick was giving some good advice. Although, the available technology largely depends on the surrounding job market. Work From Home has certainly opened the market up. But it's all still settling right now. And can be a bit of a crap-shoot.

[sincronikon]

(Up late, damn cats :P)

At 3/10/23 12:23 AM, 23450 wrote: I've been deep in software development for about 10 years now. I'm not entirely sure that it suits me though. The pandemic may have messed with my head a bit. I've been considering a change into teaching some day. This is partially because I am getting older, and the desire to spend my life in expensive tech cities is starting to wane. Teaching in a smaller community sounds like a much more relaxing way to spend my 40's or 50's.

Well, yeah, the pandemic messed with everyone's head. For us who were deep in tech, we'd be stupid and unethical not to re-evaluate our roles. People were manipulated or coerced, using technology, to believe the world was going to end if they didn't do X or Y. And now we live in a world where we can't point fingers - maybe my neighbour kicked off the propaganda? Maybe a government did? Maybe a private company? Hell, maybe freakin' aliens :). We'll never know. Agile got out of hand, "big tech" ran on government welfare too long, and... here we are.

Teaching in a smaller community -- yeah. Couldn't agree more. The body changes too, and these days, high-velocity code is a kid's game. If you can figure out how to make the small-town thing work, do share with us & others (but maybe don't shout from a rooftop... ;))

Stopping at 10 years to think is far smarter than my 20. Carpal/tendinitis is real, it doesn't go away. If you're lucky enough to have avoided that and have an exit strategy into a new career entirely, it's worth considering a jump. The expert exodus is real, and it's going to really hurt in 10 years when the kiddos realize what they've been building on top of...

As for the original line of questioning. I feel like Gimmick was giving some good advice. Although, the available technology largely depends on the surrounding job market. Work From Home has certainly opened the market up. But it's all still settling right now. And can be a bit of a crap-shoot.

Yeah, @Gimmick had great ideas (but apparently lost his password or something :(). The others, too. I'm seeing work from home, but experiencing the shift - apparently, pre-recorded video interviews are now a thing, on top of the rest of the hiring silliness. Hard to take job applications seriously at all anymore. If I wind up programming again, it'll be a maintenance role, team lead, or helping small local business. Landing such a gig, however...

Obviously, I have no idea where your head is at. But keep an open mind.

I'd love to jump ship and grow food on a farm, but that would require much better health, learning everything from scratch, and some insane startup capital. I have vague hopes I might figure out concept art well enough 5 years from now and just peace out from Enterprise X. Totally open to any / all ideas that are more realistic ;). I hope you're building a secondary skill set now, even if it's just dabbling.

ML art generation is going to wipe the floor with anyone who doesn't want to use it for professional purposes, and I see you have one art piece :). It's worth at least dabbling with visual art! Based on Gimmick's advice to check out the GANs (more or less), I finally installed my own local copy of Stable Diffusion and decided to stop arguing over on the Art board. Most art people still want to dig with their hands, which means folks like us might have opportunities to pivot.

I can't really think of anything directly transferable for software developers, and never encouraged anyone to become a professional without warning. The scope of what we can do outside of code-fiending is very limited. I hope more people keep chiming in! Realistic discussion like this is how good ideas are found.

Thanks for taking the time to write! Your second vote of confidence for teaching is very sound. Better than management!!! =D Be well.

[Gimmick]

At 3/10/23 03:40 AM, sincronikon wrote: Teaching in a smaller community -- yeah. Couldn't agree more. The body changes too, and these days, high-velocity code is a kid's game. If you can figure out how to make the small-town thing work, do share with us & others (but maybe don't shout from a rooftop... ;))

Tutoring in a big city might be the next best thing to teaching in a smaller community - I don't think tutoring doesn't requires you to get any specific credentials, whereas teachers might have to get a Master's or a PhD to be eligible to teach at the school. The downside of this though is that tutoring is a one-man operation, so you have to find an audience, promote yourself, and go through all the hassle that's not teaching.

Stopping at 10 years to think is far smarter than my 20. Carpal/tendinitis is real, it doesn't go away. If you're lucky enough to have avoided that and have an exit strategy into a new career entirely, it's worth considering a jump.

Maybe one day we'll be able to figure out how to fix those bodily aches. Although bionic hands have a ways to go yet...

The expert exodus is real, and it's going to really hurt in 10 years when the kiddos realize what they've been building on top of...

Depending on the company, shit's already hit the fan. At a certain point I think everything tends to devolve into maintenance mode.

This reminds me of Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart. Haven't gotten around to reading the book yet, but I hazard there's some lessons to be learnt there...

Yeah, @Gimmick had great ideas (but apparently lost his password or something :().

Oh, my main account is fine, it's just my alt account whose password I lost. Well, I say "lost" because I have to keep guessing it whenever I log in, but as it turns out I keep making the same incorrect guesses lol. Maybe I should write down which ones didn't work first...

The others, too. I'm seeing work from home, but experiencing the shift - apparently, pre-recorded video interviews are now a thing, on top of the rest of the hiring silliness.

Oh right, I completely forgot about pre-recorded video interviews. I've had the good fortune of not needing to go through those but man are those silly and make you feel weird af when reviewing the footage...well, at least you get a chance to put your best foot forward I guess.

I might figure out concept art well enough 5 years from now and just peace out from Enterprise X. Totally open to any / all ideas that are more realistic ;). I hope you're building a secondary skill set now, even if it's just dabbling.

I would love to get into art and music one of these days, but I keep putting them off when the going gets hard. I guess that's why I prefer in-person courses, because there's some social and monetary pressure to continue, whereas when you do it all by your lonesome then you have no stakes in following through with it.

I would've told others that I'm learning art but as it turns out, telling people what you want to do is ---to the brain--- just as rewarding as actually doing it, so that's a recipe for shooting yourself in the foot unless they really hold your feet to the fire and shame you into not dropping out, which most people don't do for obvious reasons.

Most art people still want to dig with their hands, which means folks like us might have opportunities to pivot.

I don't mean to belittle the art community, but whenever I tried to get a specific image I had in mind via Stable Diffusion, I couldn't get it to be made. Sure, "prompt engineering" is nowhere as difficult as actually drawing art, but it's not something that requires no effort either.

There's more advanced uses of stable diffusion like image in/outpainting that I plan to work with in the future now that I finally got a computer with a 1070.

The scope of what we can do outside of code-fiending is very limited.

That's still a very large scope, it's the next best thing there is to making things out of thin air! Too bad it takes so much effort to do anything meaningful lol. The guy making SerenityOS is coding like there's no tomorrow and even then there's still a huuuge amount of effort required to make it anything more than a 'toy' OS.

[sincronikon]

At 3/11/23 01:19 PM, Gimmick wrote: Tutoring in a big city might be the next best thing to teaching in a smaller community [...] so you have to find an audience, promote yourself, and go through all the hassle that's not teaching.

Yep. Local colleges / universities might be an option for those enrolled. I've toyed with the idea of teaching elderly too, but as you say, promotion. I've had half a mind to blast advertisements to seniors homes for basic computer skills tutoring, but haven't quite worked out how to do that tactfully...

Depending on the company, shit's already hit the fan. At a certain point I think everything tends to devolve into maintenance mode.
This reminds me of Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart. Haven't gotten around to reading the book yet, but I hazard there's some lessons to be learnt there...

Now if companies would just be honest about this and advertise "maintenance"... (which they don't seem to...)

Oh right, I completely forgot about pre-recorded video interviews. I've had the good fortune of not needing to go through those but man are those silly and make you feel weird af when reviewing the footage...well, at least you get a chance to put your best foot forward I guess.

...and yet still get ignored! =D

I would love to get into art and music one of these days, but I keep putting them off when the going gets hard. I guess that's why I prefer in-person courses, because there's some social and monetary pressure to continue, whereas when you do it all by your lonesome then you have no stakes in following through with it.
I would've told others that I'm learning art but as it turns out, telling people what you want to do is ---to the brain--- just as rewarding as actually doing it, so that's a recipe for shooting yourself in the foot unless they really hold your feet to the fire and shame you into not dropping out, which most people don't do for obvious reasons.

I run a real-time drawing/painting group as well. Very small, any skill level welcome! I'll hold your feet to the fire to show up, but that's it, no other pressure :).

I don't mean to belittle the art community, but whenever I tried to get a specific image I had in mind via Stable Diffusion, I couldn't get it to be made. Sure, "prompt engineering" is nowhere as difficult as actually drawing art, but it's not something that requires no effort either.
There's more advanced uses of stable diffusion like image in/outpainting that I plan to work with in the future now that I finally got a computer with a 1070.

Check your PM. Thanks for encouraging me to look at the GANs. SD is incredible, and I'd be happy to show you how to use it. Just... don't ask on the Art board here, or you'll get kicked around.

That's still a very large scope, it's the next best thing there is to making things out of thin air! Too bad it takes so much effort to do anything meaningful lol. The guy making SerenityOS is coding like there's no tomorrow and even then there's still a huuuge amount of effort required to make it anything more than a 'toy' OS.

My dusty C++ library which was intended for submission to boost feels this pain ;). I don't know why anyone would try to make an OS solo. That's the kind of thing that quite literally causes mental disorders due to stress. That's a group project.

Summing up the thread so far:

Teaching; Art; Technical Writing. Hmm. What else? Anyone else want to weigh in?

[S3C]

At 3/11/23 03:18 PM, sincronikon wrote: I don't know why anyone would try to make an OS solo. That's the kind of thing that quite literally causes mental disorders

Or creating an OS Solo is a job for the clinically insane.

[sincronikon]

At 3/11/23 04:31 PM, S3C wrote:

At 3/11/23 03:18 PM, sincronikon wrote: I don't know why anyone would try to make an OS solo. That's the kind of thing that quite literally causes mental disorders

Or creating an OS Solo is a job for the clinically insane.

TempleOS is exactly what I had in mind but forgot the name. Sometimes, examples in the negative are just as important. Let's not be that guy :(. Thanks for the link (though it didn't work here, for some reason - but the URL reminded me :)).

[S3C]

At 3/11/23 08:27 PM, sincronikon wrote:

At 3/11/23 04:31 PM, S3C wrote:

At 3/11/23 03:18 PM, sincronikon wrote: I don't know why anyone would try to make an OS solo. That's the kind of thing that quite literally causes mental disorders

Or creating an OS Solo is a job for the clinically insane.

TempleOS is exactly what I had in mind but forgot the name. Sometimes, examples in the negative are just as important. Let's not be that guy :(. Thanks for the link (though it didn't work here, for some reason - but the URL reminded me :)).

sorry about that- meant to link to the archived version.

[Gimmick]

At 3/11/23 03:18 PM, sincronikon wrote: Yep. Local colleges / universities might be an option for those enrolled. I've toyed with the idea of teaching elderly too, but as you say, promotion. I've had half a mind to blast advertisements to seniors homes for basic computer skills tutoring, but haven't quite worked out how to do that tactfully...

I should say that seniors in retirement homes and such are already socially isolated to an extent, I think just visiting would be appreciated - and then later on you can mention it as an aside.

And who knows, maybe you can get them hooked on <multiplayer game of the day> while you're at it.

Now if companies would just be honest about this and advertise "maintenance"... (which they don't seem to...)

The truth isn't sexy, so being honest would just drive people away before they even apply. Who knows, some people might stick on due to sunk costs.

Also, if you're up front with how terrible your situation is as a hiring manager, then the candidates have the power to negotiate for more.

...and yet still get ignored! =D

LOL true that!

I run a real-time drawing/painting group as well. Very small, any skill level welcome! I'll hold your feet to the fire to show up, but that's it, no other pressure :).

Oh, neat! I might consider it in the next few weeks. Currently I'm thinking of joining a nearby Toastmasters and seeing where things go from there, don't want to jump into too many things at once...

Check your PM. Thanks for encouraging me to look at the GANs. SD is incredible, and I'd be happy to show you how to use it. Just... don't ask on the Art board here, or you'll get kicked around.

Thanks by the way! Perhaps you might have seen the images I generated, a couple related to F1 racing (trying to recreate an image I had in mind). Didn't get the same thing but got close. Also, you mentioned that it was exposed as is to the net...I'm thinking of doing something like that when I get Stable Diffusion set up on my computer as well, perhaps put it in a docker container or something to try and isolate it if possible...my landlord's ISP gave him a static IP for some reason, might as well use it :P

My dusty C++ library which was intended for submission to boost feels this pain ;). I don't know why anyone would try to make an OS solo. That's the kind of thing that quite literally causes mental disorders due to stress. That's a group project.

Yeah. Terry's the main example as @S3C linked, and it seems like the SerenityOS guy is getting some outside contributions for the web browser and other parts so it's not entirely solo at this stage thankfully.

Summing up the thread so far:
Teaching; Art; Technical Writing. Hmm. What else? Anyone else want to weigh in?

Consultancy? I'm not sure how consultants manage to break into the field but I think they can have a lot of leeway to work at whatever (high/low) level they choose, unless I'm imagining incorrectly.

[sincronikon]

At 3/13/23 02:03 PM, Gimmick wrote: I should say that seniors in retirement homes and such are already socially isolated to an extent, I think just visiting would be appreciated - and then later on you can mention it as an aside.

True, residents might be OK with this - however, their managerial overlords may not be. Striking the balance... hmm...

[...] sunk costs. Also, if you're up front with how terrible your situation is as a hiring manager, then the candidates have the power to negotiate for more.

This old fallacy :(. It is indeed real. Excuse me as I put on 16,000 masks and stab myself with approximately 100 medicati-- err, vaccinations. Hiring managers are nutbars, across the board. The trick is working around them. I was hired at the tax department (and quit out of disgust after 8 months), mostly because I wore a shitload of jewelry, and it just so turned out my eventual boss was a "corporate suck up" (read between the lines). I wish I was kidding.

Oh, neat! I might consider it in the next few weeks. Currently I'm thinking of joining a nearby Toastmasters and seeing where things go from there, don't want to jump into too many things at once...

Awesome! Anything that makes you think on your feet and is creative is helpful. You should join them!

Thanks by the way! Perhaps you might have seen the images I generated, a couple related to F1 racing (trying to recreate an image I had in mind). Didn't get the same thing but got close. Also, you mentioned that it was exposed as is to the net...I'm thinking of doing something like that when I get Stable Diffusion set up on my computer as well, perhaps put it in a docker container or something to try and isolate it if possible...my landlord's ISP gave him a static IP for some reason, might as well use it :P

Well, here's the thing. A 1070 won't work. SD loads entire models into VRAM (thanks, python) and there's absolutely no sane memory management solution out there. A few people have tried, but it only delays memory leaks and barely makes a difference. You need a good 16GB of VRAM to run advanced models... honestly, I wouldn't even try on a 1070.

No, I don't review privately generated things -- unless I make something on the same day and need to pull out my own results. I'm writing a script soon to clear the folder every 2 weeks. No clue what you did, and don't care, because that's the only reasonable way to do this :).

Yeah. Terry's the main example as @S3C linked, and it seems like the SerenityOS guy is getting some outside contributions for the web browser and other parts so it's not entirely solo at this stage thankfully.

Glad to hear SerenityOS guy has a more sane approach.

Consultancy? I'm not sure how consultants manage to break into the field but I think they can have a lot of leeway to work at whatever (high/low) level they choose, unless I'm imagining incorrectly.

Yes. However, when I worked for the tax man, I knew a Technical Writer who explained consulting to me in exactly these terms: "It's hookers and pimps. You strut your stuff, suck up, and ask for more than you deserve". He wasn't wrong (...as he commanded $250/hour for 4 hours while driving off in his Porsche). While that might appeal to some people, it doesn't to me. But is definitely an option for the morally bankrupt.

[Gimmick]

At 3/13/23 03:08 PM, sincronikon wrote: I was hired at the tax department (and quit out of disgust after 8 months), mostly because I wore a shitload of jewelry, and it just so turned out my eventual boss was a "corporate suck up" (read between the lines). I wish I was kidding.

Ouch, that's gotta have sucked.

Well, here's the thing. A 1070 won't work. SD loads entire models into VRAM (thanks, python) and there's absolutely no sane memory management solution out there. A few people have tried, but it only delays memory leaks and barely makes a difference. You need a good 16GB of VRAM to run advanced models... honestly, I wouldn't even try on a 1070.

Doesn't hurt to try :P You're right that it absolutely sucks up memory but if I've got a lot of time to spare and others have got it working on GPUs with ~2GB VRAM then I guess it's worth trying, even if only to definitively be able to rule it out.

Well, there's also kaggle I suppose. Since they make P100s available for about 40 hours per week no questions asked, I could also use that if I really can't get it to work on my system.

No, I don't review privately generated things -- unless I make something on the same day and need to pull out my own results. I'm writing a script soon to clear the folder every 2 weeks. No clue what you did, and don't care, because that's the only reasonable way to do this :).

Ah cool, nevermind then! :)

Glad to hear SerenityOS guy has a more sane approach.

To be fair, it's still what I'd call the upper end of sane...

Yes. However, when I worked for the tax man, I knew a Technical Writer who explained consulting to me in exactly these terms: "It's hookers and pimps. You strut your stuff, suck up, and ask for more than you deserve". He wasn't wrong (...as he commanded $250/hour for 4 hours while driving off in his Porsche). While that might appeal to some people, it doesn't to me. But is definitely an option for the morally bankrupt.

Heh, I wouldn't necessarily call it morally bankrupt since it still is a valuable service that doesn't do much harm (unless I dunno, you're consulting for the military or some morally gray projects) but yeah it's probably something that is more suited towards those with a marketing bent...and marketing's the last place I'd ever want to be in lol