i hate my class mates
fuckin fuckers.
fuck you all u suckers.
from Josh.

At 9/28/01 01:07 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 9/28/01 12:35 AM, Turnbolt wrote: Further! Anyone who TRULY supports the freedoms of this country, ESPECIALLY freedom of speech, would equally support Sears and Fed/Ex for expressing their opinions in pulling their ads from the show! You would force them to support something, even if it they don't wish to??? Even if they aren't comfortable with it or disagree??? And you're supposed to be about "freedom of speech"??? REALLY look at what you are saying there. It's EXTREMELY one sided. Maher made some patriotic sponsors mad with his opinion. They, in turn, expressed THEIR opinion by bailing out on him. If he can't generate revenue, he's cancelled by the network for something which will make money.

Well I guess I can't argue with that, but now that I know their opinion, it is my opinion that they are assholes and I won't shop at their stores.

-Tom

you're cool man!

It looks like it's already begun. Look around you, comrades: civil liberties are being squelched already. Military forces have entered the airports and are now enforcing a sort of martial law there. Media personalities (i.e. Bill Maher) are being condemned for not following blindly with the saber-rattling rhetoric of the ultraright like George W. Bush, and our fellow Americans, because they have turbans upon their heads, are being attacked, arrested, and verbally assaulted for being born into a nationality. People's rights are being strangled under the pretense of "temporary national security." Here's a lesson, kids: when civil liberties are withdrawn "temporarily," they never come back. Don't allow the political elites to rule your lives! Fight back, and question everything! Don't let this harsh reality check by a small faction of determined individuals throw us back decades. KEEP FREEDOM ALIVE!

Everyone is running around being so terribly afraid of terrorists and veiling their fears behind an american flag. You know, just one month ago, the same people with flags in their windows now were complaining about how much the government is fucking them. Now they're being offended by even the slightest encroachment on the size of america's balls. No one wants to admit that what those terrorists did was not cowardly and thoughtless. We're just looking for a way to re-inflate our ego after being suckerpunched right in the eye. It's like kicking the shit out of 3 guys and then they call you a pussy.

That's what Politically Incorrect is all about, i feel. Not having to conform to the ideas that the media and governmental employees want you to believe. I'm just insulted because for a long time, i believed that maybe the people were in control of their lives and not big business. But appareantly i was wrong.

For years, the media has been filling us full of fear and loathing of silly shit. Germ warfare... What? You honestly think that Yusef and Ali Bingabba are going to be able to bribe the russian government into giving them about 114ci of anthrax or smallpox? You honestly think that the terrorists are going to be stupid enough to hijack another plane? They're probably going to take the safest route and ryder truck-bomb some other high profile building. People are so paranoid about terrorists posing as airline officials and smuggling their "weapons" onboard... boxcutters! They're fucking box cutters! 35 grown individuals can take 4 people with box cutters. Sure, you'll get cut, but it beats the hell out of flying into the white house at 600+ mph. We don't need the National Guard patting my crotch looking for an HK5. Searching my bag at baseball games for whatever.

What this all comes down to is keeping old, rich white people feeling safe. Since that's pretty much who runs the country, all of us are lead to believe that these steps are necessary... giving away part of our personal liberties to have that feeling, that illusion of security and safety. You can't make everything completely secure, or else, like george carlin said, terrorists will start bombing other public venues...strip clubs, gang bangs and crackhouses.

Don't get me wrong, i'm pissed as hell and am proud to be fortunate enough to live in a free country, but if i hear that damned "Proud To Be An American" song one more time, i'm going to throw myself in front of a low flying 757.

I'm glad you feel this way, Tom. The spectre of corporate influence grows by the day. Right now we have less than 100 umbrella companies that account for roughly half the world's wealth. With corporate actions, such as withdrawing all sponsorship, the men at the top can bypass freedom of speech and hide behind our capitalist laws that allow them to. Now, I'm not about to start throwing molotov cocktails at policemen and demanding a "revolution", but I am still troubled by it all. FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS ABSOLUTE.
Oh, and one more thing: the economic development of countries, such as Cambodia and other previously third world places, has been stifled by mega-companies that relish the cheap labour with little concern for the well-being of the workers in this country, who work 12-hour shifts for a pittance. The governments are bullied and manipulated by the corporations, so as to put profit before the interests of it's people. Corrupt, autocratic dictators are kept on their thrones because it will keep their country stable and not upset the profit margins of the companies that use their labour and resources.

Anyway, there's something for you to disagree with. :P

I'm not a fan of censorship, but I'm not a fan of morons either.

Look, I'm sure this guy is the little champion of free speech for everyone who wants to fight the power. Speaking as one of THE premier paranoid psychopaths in the world, I know our government and culture has some evil shit there.

However Bill Maher had the sense of a retarded lab chimp whn he said that. For all the people afraid of a resurgence in McCarthyism, forget it. This is a temporary insanity. remember McCarthy was brought down crashing and burning because someone put a camera during his proceedings and showed what a horses ass he was. Maher is just another ignorant fool, who has no business talking politics, and neither do the airheads who frequent his show. Do I really give a shit what some ditzy actress or a musician think on world policy?
Granted there are some amazing guests from time to time, but he turns it into his soapbox. Now if he wants a show like Bill O'Reilly that's fine. There's enough free time for a jackass to have his own show, as we all hear Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern.

The problem was timing. One WEEK after the crash. Had he said this two years after the fact when it is okay to have emotions die down. He probably needed time to sort this out, maybe he didn't mean it, but a man has to learn sometimes to keep his opinions to himself for the sake of others. This isn't a violation of free speech, this concept is known as decency, not prudish can't show a boob on TV decency, but common everyday give a shit about your fellow man decency.

This guy isn't Larr Flint, he isn't Thomas Jefferson, hell he's not even John McLaughlin who he stole the format from, he's a guy whose star is fading because he did something stupid. Arrogance is a weakness, it was his, and he's paying for it. Let him learn a lesson. This wasn't a revolutionary statement, it was the last gasp from a dead horse. Remember just because most of us spent our lives as outcasts doesn't mean we should champion people for the sole purpose that the majority hates him. Some people aren't worth it.

Stop thinking this country is going to hell because some people want security. Hell some of these white yuppies freak me out too. Just don't think that your enemies enemy is your friend, cuz every time I tried that train of thought...it later bit me in the ass.

To be honest: America is going through a sensitive time, and not that I agree with Sears, but he should have watched his mouth a little bit better. I dont think he should be canceled or have sponsers pull from him, but America needs more time to heal before we start joking about WTC!

At 9/28/01 12:43 AM, TomFulp wrote:

...

If I wanted to please the fans, I would be posting messages about how we should nuke Afghanistan. By supporting Bill Maher, I am likely pissing off a lot of NG fans.

Okay. That is valid. Though I don't see where anyone got pissed, or had the nad to say so, but me. Also, your support of Bill Maher is your thing, and that's fine. I was pissed at the "(oh heavens no)" thing you put after the word "anti-American" which you address next... so... moving on...

I was being sarcastic with that "oh heavens no!" comment - I am not down with being anti-American, and Bill Maher was not being anti-American. Morons are misinterpreting him as being anti-american, because their judgement is blinded by their exagerated patriotism.

Okay. I'm down with that. And I too think to call his comments anti-American is false, they were merely his opinion, but I don't like his comments one bit.

I think anyone who is anti-American should get the fuck out of America, but I still acknowledge that America's shit does indeed stink on occasion. Just because some terrorists blew up a good part of NYC doesn't mean that America is infallible.

No, it doesn't mean we're infallible. Hell we elected Clinton for TWO fucking terms in a row!!! HAHA! No, seriously, I don't think we're infallible either, but we ARE at war because of an act of war on us, and I think support is important for our country by our citizens, when in such a serious situation. I do, however acknowledge that some may disagree with me on that.

Heck, how long has American been around... a few hundred years? The Roman Empire was around for a thousand years. I can pretty much garantee that America is gonna get blown to smitherines at some point... Sorry, that's just the way history works. We are all gonna get whiped out by some nuclear and/or chemical weapon, and the world will continue on for thousands of years.

I don't know if anyone will blow us to smithereens just yet, but I have watched history carefully as well and, though I love this country, I quite agree, a fall is immenant!

I don't even know where I'm going with any of this... Oh yeah, FUCK YOU, and God Bless America!

HAHA! Well FUCK YOU TOO!!! And thanks for an intelligent reply!

-Tom

-Chris(turnbolt)

At 9/28/01 01:07 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 9/28/01 12:35 AM, Turnbolt wrote: Further! Anyone who TRULY supports the freedoms of this country, ESPECIALLY freedom of speech, would equally support Sears and Fed/Ex for expressing their opinions in pulling their ads from the show! You would force them to support something, even if it they don't wish to??? Even if they aren't comfortable with it or disagree??? And you're supposed to be about "freedom of speech"??? REALLY look at what you are saying there. It's EXTREMELY one sided. Maher made some patriotic sponsors mad with his opinion. They, in turn, expressed THEIR opinion by bailing out on him. If he can't generate revenue, he's cancelled by the network for something which will make money.

Well I guess I can't argue with that, but now that I know their opinion, it is my opinion that they are assholes and I won't shop at their stores.

-Tom

And I'm totally down with that!!! You shop where you want to shop, and they'll advertise with whom they want. That's America, baby!!!

terrorists are bastards i lost some of family in that damn rubble and it sucks when you wake up and you dont have a mother any more
let me tell you!. i would rip of osama's fucking head right now if he was here. Thnx for all the the support people

At 9/28/01 01:55 AM, Shrapnel wrote:

At 9/28/01 12:10 AM, Turnbolt wrote: I'm not sure what pisses me off more... the fact that you would put up a petition to save the ass of an idiot like Bill Maher, or that ANYONE would want to save a hunk of CRAP show like Politically Incorrect!!!

It already comes on in, like, the three a.m. time slot, and the dude can't even get a decent guest!!! "On the next Politically Incorrect, ALF and a guy who rode in a plane once!!! Don't miss it tomorrow night at 3 a.m.!!!"

Ok- fair enough- you don't like the show. I don't like Bill Maher either because he says some ignorant things but you know why I respect him? Because people like him have the balls to get in there and talk about things people could lose their jobs for saying.

Yeah, but he IS a weiner!!! And you made the point with, "...talk about things people could lose their jobs for saying." EXACTLY! Maher doesn't have the star quality to pull off things like that, and now he's paying the price!

Look. I heard Maher's comments, and I wouldn't call them "Anti-American", but they were GROSSLY inappropriate at the time he said them. Top it off with that the show is not a hit at ALL, and the fact that Bill Maher is about as funny as infant death, and there is NO reason to keep the guy on the air!!!

Grossly inappropriate? I thought you supported freedom of speech. You mention:

I do! Bill Maher IS free to say what he wants, even if it is, to someone like me, inappropriate, but the network is also free to kick his ass out if they want, for whatever their reasons. He can still stand on the corner saying whatever he wants, but others, like ABC don't have to support it if they don't wish to.

"I'm proud to be an American where I can shoot my mouth off as I wish! But if I start anti-American propiganda in a time of war, I HOPE that the media will show the class and good sense to not support my dumb ass!!! "

So is freedom of speech only a front? Your statement implies that we are only allowed to speak what is accepted by the government. He did not state anti-American propaganda. I assume you are referring to this statement:

NONO.. my bad, I screwed up in saying that there about "anti-American propaganda"... I said before and I'll say again, his statements were, to me, inappropriate, but not anti-American.

"Bill: But also, we should --
we have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away.
That's cowardly.
Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly.
You're right."

He's attack the US tactics. The US has done many noble things in the past but it has also had it's share of shameful acts. The media has already not shown any "class"- they have all given into the "terror" the terrorists intended. What's the deal with showing the plane hitting the WTC over and over again. I saw it so many times the day it happened I started to think it was cool. You know the first time I saw it I was thinking "Oh my God" but after the 20th time you start judging the camera angles and how much debris falls out of the plane. The media is up their for ratings and shock value.

The terrorists are not winning by a stretch if that fool show is canceled! In fact, I'M winning!!! I hope that shithead's carreer is OVER! GOD he's annoying!!! Sign a petition to protect a no-talent HACK like Bill Maher??? I'd rather support Bin Laden's genitalia with my tongue!!!

Yea the terrorists are winning if the show is cancelled. They are already winning by taking out all traces of the WTCs existing. Why don't they take out Pearl Harbour then? Why erase an essential part of history? The fact is it happened. Sure Bill Maher's a no-talent hack- I don't disagree- but I support anybody who is going to be stiffled by over-sensitive ignorant forces in management trying to 'pretty' up reality for the citizens of the US. Where does the censorship stop? Is Pico going to be removed for having the plane crash into the building during the intro?

I disagree. No one is winning by losing Bill Maher except ME!!! HAHAHAHA!!!

They aren't really erasing anything. I think they arte trying to go a bit easy for all of the people who had someone die or get lost in the incedent. I mean, 10,000 people presumed dead!!! Think how many of our people in this country as well as others around the world are hurting BADLY because of that. Personally, I wouldn't want it sugar coated had I lost someone, I feel the best path to healing is direct confrontation but DAMN, some folks can't handle things like this the way I can. My wife is still messed up over it and she didn't know ANYONE in the WTC! So while I don't necessarily agree, I think their intention is to help give a buffer zone from the WTC for a bit and let people get past the shock. I also must add that NOBODY better get rid of Pico!!!!!!

Also, I am offended by your need to appear "cutting edge" by acting like you're so cool with things which may be "Anti-American". Without America, things like NG would not flourish as they do and the less you support America in deeds and words as well as actions, the more you threaten your own rights and ours to be an upstart, smartass, jerk like most of us are, myself included! I'm proud to be an American where I can shoot my mouth off as I wish! But if I start anti-American propiganda in a time of war, I HOPE that the media will show the class and good sense to not support my dumb ass!!! Up yours for that little "(oh heavens no!)" crack, Tom Fulp!!! And up anyone elses who feel the same way!!!

He isn't acting cool about things that are anti-American. I thought America was founded on free speech and if you think Tom is anti-American, then you must be one of those who think America stands for a stagnant society afraid to play with ideas because it's citizens are too weak to distinguish right from wrong.

Tom and I already straightened that out. Thanks. And, no, I don't now nor did I ever say that Tom himself was or is "anti-American".

Perhaps you could even write an actual argument next time instead of personal attacks.

I did.

At 9/28/01 02:00 AM, Shrapnel wrote:

At 9/28/01 01:07 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 9/28/01 12:35 AM, Turnbolt wrote: Further! Anyone who TRULY supports the freedoms of this country, ESPECIALLY freedom of speech, would equally support Sears and Fed/Ex for expressing their opinions in pulling their ads from the show! You would force them to support something, even if it they don't wish to??? Even if they aren't comfortable with it or disagree??? And you're supposed to be about "freedom of speech"??? REALLY look at what you are saying there. It's EXTREMELY one sided. Maher made some patriotic sponsors mad with his opinion. They, in turn, expressed THEIR opinion by bailing out on him. If he can't generate revenue, he's cancelled by the network for something which will make money.

Well I guess I can't argue with that, but now that I know their opinion, it is my opinion that they are assholes and I won't shop at their stores.

-Tom

And I can and will because Mr. Turnbolt has a circular argument.
" Further! Anyone who TRULY supports the freedoms of this country, ESPECIALLY freedom of speech, would equally support Sears and Fed/Ex for expressing their opinions in pulling their ads from the show! "
If you truly supported freedom of speech you wouldn't be making such a big deal of this.

Why? Am I not free to do so in your opinion???

Sears and Fed/Ex are not supporting freedom of speech.

Actually, they are excercising their own freedom of speech.

They are afraid that Bill Maher's statements may negatively affect their image by eing associated with them. This tells me they think their customers are stupid. They think that any statement, no matter how minor, that shows criticism of the United States is against the United States. How is a society supposed to progress if nobody mentions what is going wrong?

That's all well and good, but Sears and Fed/Ex are businesses!!! They are interested in avoiding ontroversy for maximum profit! As is AT&T, as is J.C.Penney, as is TGI fucking Fridays and anybody else trying to make money!!! NATURALLY with complaints from their customers, they will pull ads! I again stress that Bill Maher did this to himself! If he were a bigger or more powerful star, then he may have kept sponsors, but his inability to generate sufficient fan base has made him expendable. Why? Because his show SUCKS! hey may have eventually pulled their ads ANYWAY. I doubt he was hauling in all their business.

Are we too afraid of opinions?

No. I'm certainly not. But, unlike you I feel EVERYONE is entitled to one. You seem to think Bill Maher is and Sears isn't.

Do you want the US to fall like Rome?

It's going to someday. That's just how it is. But please help me here. This appears to be a bit of a red herring. Please for me, relate the fall of Rome to Fed/Ex choosing for their own reasons not to sponsor a bad, low rated TV show. I'm VERY interested to learn about how they compare.

"! You would force them to support something, even if it they don't wish to??? Even if they aren't comfortable with it or disagree??? And you're supposed to be about "freedom of speech"??? "

And you would force Tom to shut up?

Did I tell Tom to shut up??? Show me where?

At 9/28/01 02:42 AM, Zuul0025 wrote:

At 9/28/01 12:10 AM, Turnbolt wrote: I'm not sure what pisses me off more... the fact that you would put up a petition to save the ass of an idiot like Bill Maher, or that ANYONE would want to save a hunk of CRAP show like Politically Incorrect!!!

It already comes on in, like, the three a.m. time slot, and the dude can't even get a decent guest!!! "On the next Politically Incorrect, ALF and a guy who rode in a plane once!!! Don't miss it tomorrow night at 3 a.m.!!!"

Look. I heard Maher's comments, and I wouldn't call them "Anti-American", but they were GROSSLY inappropriate at the time he said them. Top it off with that the show is not a hit at ALL, and the fact that Bill Maher is about as funny as infant death, and there is NO reason to keep the guy on the air!!!

The terrorists are not winning by a stretch if that fool show is canceled! In fact, I'M winning!!! I hope that shithead's carreer is OVER! GOD he's annoying!!! Sign a petition to protect a no-talent HACK like Bill Maher??? I'd rather support Bin Laden's genitalia with my tongue!!!

Also, I am offended by your need to appear "cutting edge" by acting like you're so cool with things which may be "Anti-American". Without America, things like NG would not flourish as they do and the less you support America in deeds and words as well as actions, the more you threaten your own rights and ours to be an upstart, smartass, jerk like most of us are, myself included! I'm proud to be an American where I can shoot my mouth off as I wish! But if I start anti-American propiganda in a time of war, I HOPE that the media will show the class and good sense to not support my dumb ass!!! Up yours for that little "(oh heavens no!)" crack, Tom Fulp!!! And up anyone elses who feel the same way!!!

And FURTHER MORE....You said the show is crap and no one of importance is on it....Well why did you watch it? Not much to do at that late hour for you?? Him methinks hypocracy is a muthafuka

Okay, so thinking before you speak is a practice you might want to pick up. How could I know the show is crap if I never watched it? There is nothing hypocriticl about giving something a chance before panning it. I slam a lot of the submissions in the Portal! You would call me a hypocrit for watching them first??? Methinks stupidity is a muthafuka.

At 9/27/01 02:08 AM, TomFulp wrote: Olskool NG user Daniel Zelter brought something to my attention... Due to comments made by Bill Maher that were misinterpreted as being "anti-American" (oh heavens no!), Sears and FedEx have pulled sponsorship on his show, Politically Incorrect. Several ABC affiliates have already taken the show off the air, and it is in threat of being cancelled.

An article from ariannaonline.com explains the situation, warning that we are doing exactly what the terrorists want us to do. "Aren't "they" winning when three ABC affiliates, including the Washington, D.C., station, cancel the show?"

She also states, "And aren't "they" winning when major sponsors like Federal Express and Sears put a higher price on their corporate image than on the essential democratic ingredient of free speech by pulling their ads? These companies have no problems defending capitalism, but they shrink from defending the values that make it possible."

America was founded on freedom of speech, and that is why sites like Newgrounds get away with what they do. You like Newgrounds, right?!

We can't let ABC cancel a show just because some jerks don't agree with it. The great thing about our country is that we can critisize it freely, and we should question our country's actions. Just because we were attacked by terrorists doesn't mean that we should be blinded by patriotism.

The government is not silencing Politically Incorrect, but ABC (owned by Disney) is a huge corporation, and we all know who REALLY controls this country. That's right kids, huge corporations.

I will never again ship packages via FedEX or shop at SEARS. They are forever pansy-pleasing assholes in my book.

Anyway, America is a kick ass country, and I intend to keep it that way. Keep watching Politically Incorrect. Keep questioning authority. Keep your mind OPEN!!! One more thing:

SHOW YOUR SUPPORT BY SIGNING THIS ON-LINE PETITION!

I'm alergic to Petitions, and I don't like Politiclly Incorrect enough to sign it, actully I wouldn't anyway because Bill Maher has been an asshole before any of this. He treats people like shit on every show he's been on. If they don't take it off now, they will soon, It's on at 12:00am to get people to sleep.

its damn freedom of speech, why cant you say stuff like that on tv? pfff those ABCD (or whatever) are sureee uptight about this

At 9/28/01 02:39 AM, Zuul0025 wrote:

...actually the companies didn't EXPRESS their opinion....They just got about 8 (Using your number there) people to complain about the issue....So they decided to pull their Advertisement spots....Guess what?? I'm expressing my freedom by NOT shopping there....

Okay. It's at this point that I must point out that EVERYONE draws a line somewhere. If those companies got a certain number of complaints and that is why the show was yanked then so be it.

Have you been to the portal here lately??? The vaunted champion of this discussion, Tom Fulp himself, has a voting scale of "X,1,2,3,4 and 5." Do you know what happens when you vote "X" on something? That's what you click when you think a piece is "Too Offensive" and you want it removed. Don't believe me? Mouse over it and see what it says. And, hey! Guess what happens if enough people click "X"??? Do you think Tom writes them all an email saying, "Up yours you self righteous fucks!!! This is freedom of speech!!!" No, he doesn't. If enough people say a piece is "Too Offensive", then Tom Fulp YANKS the piece!!!

So I suppose if Bill Maher put a Flash piece with those comments he made on it, and enough of us clicked "X" on the voting scale, then Tom Fulp himself would have to listen to his viewers and pull Mr. Maher's cartoon off of NG!!!

If that were the case, would you express your opinion and not come to NG anymore??? Just curious!

Understand the difference people. There's advocating freedom of speech, and then there's shooting yourself in the foot for someone who really isn't doing anything for you to begin with. Why should Tom Fulp support someone who pisses off a bunch of his patrons? He doesn't! And neither does any other company! D-UH!!!

At 9/27/01 02:08 AM, TomFulp wrote: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT BY SIGNING THIS ON-LINE PETITION!

The petition thing on the site was down but you got your point across anyway.

How can they even question the canceling of P.I.? If they do cancel it they're cancelling freedom in a way. Freedom of speach is THE MOST important thing this wonderful country of ours has and if we don't have the right to contredict each other then what's the point of the politics let alone the government...I'm signing the damn petition and if they cancel it...
#1 I'll be hella pissed
#2 I'm using UPS
and #3 Sears can see the softer side of my ass

At 9/28/01 03:54 PM, Turnbolt wrote:

At 9/28/01 01:55 AM, Shrapnel wrote:

At 9/28/01 12:10 AM, Turnbolt wrote: I'm not sure what pisses me off more... the fact that you would put up a petition to save the ass of an idiot like Bill Maher, or that ANYONE would want to save a hunk of CRAP show like Politically Incorrect!!!

Ok- fair enough- you don't like the show. I don't like Bill Maher either because he says some ignorant things but you know why I respect him? Because people like him have the balls to get in there and talk about things people could lose their jobs for saying.

Yeah, but he IS a weiner!!! And you made the point with, "...talk about things people could lose their jobs for saying." EXACTLY! Maher doesn't have the star quality to pull off things like that, and now he's paying the price!

By your logic you mean that people with star power can say what they want. My point is that your position supports a nation of sheep following the shepherd.
Someone has to have "power" to tell us what to do.
Everyone else is afraid to go against the status quo- Maher isn't and that is respectable.

Look. I heard Maher's comments, and I wouldn't call them "Anti-American", but they were GROSSLY inappropriate at the time he said them. Top it off with that the show is not a hit at ALL, and the fact that Bill Maher is about as funny as infant death, and there is NO reason to keep the guy on the air!!!

Grossly inappropriate? I thought you supported freedom of speech. You mention:

I do! Bill Maher IS free to say what he wants, even if it is, to someone like me, inappropriate, but the network is also free to kick his ass out if they want, for whatever their reasons. He can still stand on the corner saying whatever he wants, but others, like ABC don't have to support it if they don't wish to.

So the network can kick Maher's "ass out... for whatever reasons". So if one day if and exec wakes up and decides "hey, Maher didn't give me a birthday card- let's fire him" it's ok. Sure- I support Fascism just like you do.

"Bill: But also, we should --
we have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away.
That's cowardly.
Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly.
You're right."

The terrorists are not winning by a stretch if that fool show is canceled! In fact, I'M winning!!! I hope that shithead's carreer is OVER! GOD he's annoying!!! Sign a petition to protect a no-talent HACK like Bill Maher??? I'd rather support Bin Laden's genitalia with my tongue!!!

Let's get this straight- you hate Maher- sure- that's fine but that's not what we're arguing about.
We're not arguing about his talent but whether Sears and Fed/Ex are making the right decision. We are respecting his right to free speech. He did not say anything that was not true. If anything, I've heard a lot worse from US congressmen stating we should blow up all of Afganistan. Is that they way you want your country represented?

Yea the terrorists are winning if the show is cancelled. They are already winning by taking out all traces of the WTCs existing. Why don't they take out Pearl Harbour then? Why erase an essential part of history? The fact is it happened. Where does the censorship stop? Is Pico going to be removed for having the plane crash into the building during the intro?

I disagree. No one is winning by losing Bill Maher except ME!!! HAHAHAHA!!!

They aren't really erasing anything. I think they arte trying to go a bit easy for all of the people who had someone die or get lost in the incedent. I mean, 10,000 people presumed dead

What do you mean they are not erasing anything?
There is no need for me to attack the statements you made because you have made no argument.
I see no point in you using capital letters to emphasize points that aren't there.

"I think they arte trying to go a bit easy for all of the people who had someone die or get lost in the incedent."

Yea- well millions of Americans die from cancer- you know what? I think they should get rid of cancer from every single movie, book and any other medium because everytime I hear the word cancer or see it dealt with, I get hurt by those I lost from cancer.

Also, I am offended by your need to appear "cutting edge" by acting like you're so cool with things which may be "Anti-American". Without America, things like NG would not flourish as they do and the less you support America in deeds and words as well as actions, the more you threaten your own rights and ours to be an upstart! Up yours for that little "(oh heavens no!)" crack, Tom Fulp!!! And up anyone elses who feel the same way!!!

Tom and I already straightened that out. Thanks. And, no, I don't now nor did I ever say that Tom himself was or is "anti-American".

"Also, I am offended by your need to appear "cutting edge" by acting like you're so cool with things which may be "Anti-American". "

You are offended by his need to appear "cutting edge" by acting he's so "cool with things which may be 'Anti-American'".
You implied he sides with things that may be "anti-american"- this implies that he himself is on the side of things "anti-american". Sure you used 'may' and didn't call Tom "anti-american" outright- but you implied it and you cannot retract what you wrote.
I know you're going to argue this but you can't- it is written here for everyone to judge.
I don't care about your "may" qualifier either.

Perhaps you could even write an actual argument next time instead of personal attacks.

I did.

You seem to change your tone quickly and forget what you said.

"Up yours for that little "(oh heavens no!)" crack, Tom Fulp!!! And up anyone elses who feel the same way!!!"

Oh my- I'm sure Tom's crack has to do with this argument.

And if you don't think that's a personal attack, then I have nothing more to say to you.

At 9/28/01 04:08 PM, Turnbolt wrote:

At 9/28/01 02:00 AM, Shrapnel wrote:
And I can and will because Mr. Turnbolt has a circular argument.
" Further! Anyone who TRULY supports the freedoms of this country, ESPECIALLY freedom of speech, would equally support Sears and Fed/Ex for expressing their opinions in pulling their ads from the show! "
If you truly supported freedom of speech you wouldn't be making such a big deal of this.

Why? Am I not free to do so in your opinion???

See you missed the point. I'd read over what I wrote again and what you wrote.

"Also, I am offended by your need to appear "cutting edge" by acting like you're so cool with things which may be "Anti-American". Without America, things like NG would not flourish as they do and the less you support America in deeds and words as well as actions, the more you threaten your own rights and ours to be an upstart, smartass, jerk like most of us are, myself included! I'm proud to be an American where I can shoot my mouth off as I wish! But if I start anti-American propiganda in a time of war, I HOPE that the media will show the class and good sense to not support my dumb ass!!! "

Is what you said.
"Without America, things like NG would not flourish as they do and the less you support America in deeds and words as well as actions, the more you threaten your own rights and ours to be an upstart, smartass, jerk like most of us are, myself included!"
You are against the fact that if things don't support "America in deeds and words as well as actions, you threaten your own rights."

This is a circular argument- in order to have the right to free speech you have to support America. I can't say things against America according to you because then I wouldn't be supporting it and then there would be no free speech.

Sears and Fed/Ex are not supporting freedom of speech.

Actually, they are excercising their own freedom of speech.

No they aren't. Pulling their ads in this manner and for these reasons is not a show of freedom of speech but a way of policing what people can say and can't say.

They are afraid that Bill Maher's statements may negatively affect their image by eing associated with them. This tells me they think their customers are stupid. They think that any statement, no matter how minor, that shows criticism of the United States is against the United States. How is a society supposed to progress if nobody mentions what is going wrong?

That's all well and good, but Sears and Fed/Ex are businesses!!! They are interested in avoiding ontroversy for maximum profit! As is AT&T, as is J.C.Penney, as is TGI fucking Fridays and anybody else trying to make money!!! NATURALLY with complaints from their customers, they will pull ads! I again stress that Bill Maher did this to himself! If he were a bigger or more powerful star, then he may have kept sponsors, but his inability to generate sufficient fan base has made him expendable. Why? Because his show SUCKS! hey may have eventually pulled their ads ANYWAY. I doubt he was hauling in all their business.

Are we too afraid of opinions?

No. I'm certainly not. But, unlike you I feel EVERYONE is entitled to one. You seem to think Bill Maher is and Sears isn't.

Nope- my point is that Sears is doing the wrong thing.
You put words into my mouth and again use capital letters to try to make points aren't there.

Do you want the US to fall like Rome?

It's going to someday. That's just how it is. But please help me here. This appears to be a bit of a red herring. Please for me, relate the fall of Rome to Fed/Ex choosing for their own reasons not to sponsor a bad, low rated TV show. I'm VERY interested to learn about how they compare.

Oh look- you just made a statement like Maher did.
What an insensitive remark you made! The US is going to fall someday! Oh my- you're just as bad as he is.
I'm pulling my ads.
What? Calling the US cowardly is different? I think the fact that you said the US will fall eventually is more a show of your lack of faith in the US surviving than calling it a coward.

"! You would force them to support something, even if it they don't wish to??? Even if they aren't comfortable with it or disagree??? And you're supposed to be about "freedom of speech"??? "

And you would force Tom to shut up?

Did I tell Tom to shut up??? Show me where?

See there you go not understanding my arguments.
I made a parallel to the situation.

You missed it.

I did not say you told Tom to shut up- it was demonstrating the nature of your argument.

However, you missed the context of the question I posed- it was rhetorical.

You'd better read more carefully.

Not to be a person singled out here but I just have to say it to get the truth across.

Freedom of Speech means that you will not be JAILED for saying what you say, it does in no way have anything to do with whether or not your bosses like what you say on thier programming.

I don't fully agree with thier decision on being so harsh to P.I. but what they do with thier programming from what the host said on it is thier freedom as well.

Oh and I have to clear one more thing up I read on this board. America is in no way like Rome nor will it end like Rome and I will explain very shortly why that is:

Rome fell due to attacks from barbarians, not thier politics, which, in turn was thier strongest attribute. Therefore making a comparison between Rome and America is irrelevant because America has a stronger government than Rome did, has a stronger military than Rome did (of course), and has stronger citizens than Rome did. One host of a TV show, no matter how hilarious he is at times, being fired and having his show cancelled endagers this countries' power and grace and the will to proceed with our lives.

Just thought I'd share that.

This disturbs me to no end. I am by no means a big fan of Politically incorrect, but this can not be allowed to go unnoticed. Corporate America is practicing censorship under the guise of blind emperialism. Wether you like the show or not, there are bigger issues at stake here. If this is allowed to take place, then democracy loses. Now get off your ass and stand up for something.

At 9/28/01 08:34 PM, Shrapnel wrote:
By your logic you mean that people with star power can say what they want. My point is that your position supports a nation of sheep following the shepherd.
Someone has to have "power" to tell us what to do.
Everyone else is afraid to go against the status quo- Maher isn't and that is respectable.

Okay, no. You're taking me WAY out of context. The comments about Maher's star power were only to show that he SUCKS and should therefore watch his ass. If Oprah Winfrey, for example, said what he said, it wouldn't matter as much probably, because unfortunately, you are right. It is a nation of sheep, though you are wrong, I do NOT support it. But you said that Maher has a show where things are said that could lose his job, and you're right. And he might. I'm just agreeing with you and saying I can't BELIEVE anyone is surprised by this.

He can still stand on the corner saying whatever he wants, but others, like ABC don't have to support it if they don't wish to.

So the network can kick Maher's "ass out... for whatever reasons". So if one day if and exec wakes up and decides "hey, Maher didn't give me a birthday card- let's fire him" it's ok. Sure- I support Fascism just like you do.

Again, you are twisting my words. Nice try. If you look at it intelligently and not in a litteral context, I said they can ditch ANY show based on their policies of what is and is not appropriate viewing. And Mr. Maher knew that when he signed a contract which said he was okay with and understood it!!! So, whatever, man. Fascism? HAHA! You ain't gonna win by attempting to label me with bullshit like that!

They aren't really erasing anything. I think they arte trying to go a bit easy for all of the people who had someone die or get lost in the incedent. I mean, 10,000 people presumed dead...

What do you mean they are not erasing anything?
There is no need for me to attack the statements you made because you have made no argument.
I see no point in you using capital letters to emphasize points that aren't there.

What a cheap and lameass attack on my statement. You really need to do better if you want to continue this conversation. You cut my comment in half and call an incomplete fragment "not an arguement"??? I said as you'll see in the last half of this statement, that I believe, rather than erasing as you said, that the media is just trying to give a slight break for those who are still under stress of this situation, you'll also notice, that I said I don't necessarily agree with this policy.

"I think they arte trying to go a bit easy for all of the people who had someone die or get lost in the incedent."

Yea- well millions of Americans die from cancer- you know what? I think they should get rid of cancer from every single movie, book and any other medium because everytime I hear the word cancer or see it dealt with, I get hurt by those I lost from cancer.

You fucking asshole!!! This was an immediate, brutal loss of ten thousand possible lives!!! Whether you're affected by it or not, each life lost affects possibly hundreds of others! I think there is a buffer being provided and though I don't agree with it, I see why it may be done. We have all known about and dealt with cancer for a long time. This happened suddenly, not over years and years, and only a couple of weeks ago. That is a LAME argument. WEAK WEAK WEAK!!!

Up yours for that little "(oh heavens no!)" crack, Tom Fulp!!! And up anyone elses who feel the same way!!!

Tom and I already straightened that out. Thanks. And, no, I don't now nor did I ever say that Tom himself was or is "anti-American".

"Also, I am offended by your need to appear "cutting edge" by acting like you're so cool with things which may be "Anti-American". "

You are offended by his need to appear "cutting edge" by acting he's so "cool with things which may be 'Anti-American'".
You implied he sides with things that may be "anti-american"- this implies that he himself is on the side of things "anti-american". Sure you used 'may' and didn't call Tom "anti-american" outright- but you implied it and you cannot retract what you wrote.
I know you're going to argue this but you can't- it is written here for everyone to judge.
I don't care about your "may" qualifier either.

Big fucking deal. I know what I wrote, dumbass. Say what you want, I never said Tom was anti-American. I suggested that he was trying to appear "rebelious/chic" by acting like anti-American sentiments were okay with him. But again, he straightened that out and I'm cool with what he said so you sit over there in the corner and judge all you want.

Perhaps you could even write an actual argument next time instead of personal attacks.

I did.

You seem to change your tone quickly and forget what you said.

No... I remember, but along with my arguments, I expressed an opinion or two of my own, as is my right. Or would you dictate how I write my posts and take away my freedom of speech?

"Up yours for that little "(oh heavens no!)" crack, Tom Fulp!!! And up anyone elses who feel the same way!!!"

Oh my- I'm sure Tom's crack has to do with this argument.

Again, Tom addressed that statement with his own explaination. That has been settled and everyone seems cool with it except you. So... again... make what judgements you need to, I guess. We'll not agree about that.

And if you don't think that's a personal attack, then I have nothing more to say to you.

Yes. It was an attack! I'm proud I said it and I meant it! I will not ever apologize for it. I felt a certain wway about one of Tom's comments and I was honest about it. I'm sorry I don't pass your little what can and can't be posted standard, Mr. 1st ammendment! Frankly, I wish you would stop speaking to me, because your arguments are all weak attempts to twist my words to make me look like an ignorant finger pointer and they aren't working.

Again I would like to thank Tom Fulp for intelligently discussing this with me and not trying to railroad my different opinion out of this thread like you have. He is a true supporter of freedom of speech.

FUCK THE ABC!....familiar huhh

Ok I'm skimming through more crappy flash movies whilst listening to some music via mp3. Now, I never did complain publicly about how much I hate the newgrouds theme music. Mainly, because there is an option to turn said crap music off. Well, I was greeted with a rather rude awakening. Apparently, for no reason that I can come up with, the music returns in all it's lame glory despite the fact THAT THE MAIN PAGE FOR NEWGROUNDS IS MINIMIZED. Pop-ups are lame. Spam Email for amputee porn is lame. But really obnoxious and stomach churning sounds(because it really doesn't qualify as music in the slightest)RANDOMLY PULSING THROUGH MY HEADPHONES AFTER I EXPRESSLY TURNED SAID CRAP OFF. is just fuckin' rude. I would normally be civil about such matters, but I like fuckin' with the local nerds here. No matter, I know it's not going to get fixed. YOU SEE YOU BIG FUCKIN' NERDS, YOU'VE ALREADY WON!

Thanks for you time.

At 9/28/01 08:46 PM, Shrapnel wrote:

At 9/28/01 04:08 PM, Turnbolt wrote:

" Further! Anyone who TRULY supports the freedoms of this country, ESPECIALLY freedom of speech, would equally support Sears and Fed/Ex for expressing their opinions in pulling their ads from the show! "
If you truly supported freedom of speech you wouldn't be making such a big deal of this.

Why? Am I not free to do so in your opinion???

See you missed the point. I'd read over what I wrote again and what you wrote.

I did, schmuck. And as much as you can argue with me about it, you're trying to tell me what I can and can't say as well, so, you know... cast the first stone and all that.

"Without America, things like NG would not flourish as they do and the less you support America in deeds and words as well as actions, the more you threaten your own rights and ours to be an upstart, smartass, jerk like most of us are, myself included!"
You are against the fact that if things don't support "America in deeds and words as well as actions, you threaten your own rights."

This is a circular argument- in order to have the right to free speech you have to support America. I can't say things against America according to you because then I wouldn't be supporting it and then there would be no free speech.

Okay, no. I'm merely surprised by the fact that someone like Tom Fulp who thrives on American rights, such as freedom of speech, would not support America in a time where freedom is threatened. But he actually does, so... you know. I'm cool with him now. I'm not saying you HAVE to, I'm just saying I'm taken aback that you wouldn't considering the alternatives.

No. I'm certainly not (against opinions). But, unlike you I feel EVERYONE is entitled to one. You seem to think Bill Maher is and Sears isn't.

Nope- my point is that Sears is doing the wrong thing.
You put words into my mouth...

Look who's talking about putting words in ones mouth!

Sears is doing what Sears wants. As they are free to do so. You would be the voice of right and wrong for ALL of us? And I'm the fascist?

Do you want the US to fall like Rome?

It's going to someday. That's just how it is. But please help me here. This appears to be a bit of a red herring. Please for me, relate the fall of Rome to Fed/Ex choosing for their own reasons not to sponsor a bad, low rated TV show. I'm VERY interested to learn about how they compare.

Oh look- you just made a statement like Maher did.
What an insensitive remark you made! The US is going to fall someday! Oh my- you're just as bad as he is.
I'm pulling my ads.
What? Calling the US cowardly is different? I think the fact that you said the US will fall eventually is more a show of your lack of faith in the US surviving than calling it a coward.

A statistical statement based on history, and flat calling the U.S. cowardly for using the technology at hand, which the terrorists would use also if they had it, are two COMPLETELY different things. This is your worst misuse of my statments yet. God, you're bad at this. Anyone who is at all lucid will see completely through your crap and nonsense!

"! You would force them to support something, even if it they don't wish to??? Even if they aren't comfortable with it or disagree??? And you're supposed to be about "freedom of speech"??? "

And you would force Tom to shut up?

Did I tell Tom to shut up??? Show me where?

See there you go not understanding my arguments.
I made a parallel to the situation.

You missed it.

I did not say you told Tom to shut up- it was demonstrating the nature of your argument.

However, you missed the context of the question I posed- it was rhetorical.

You'd better read more carefully.

Okay, WHAT???? I won't even argue against that. I don't need to. That's just STUPID! It makes no sense. You flat said that Sears is doing the "wrong thing". You would force them to support something they don't want to. You compare this to me forcing Tom to shut up. I never said for Tom to shut up. If that was Rhetoric, then Osama Bin Laden is the next Miss America. Damn, dude. Get some sleep and get thinking straight before you look any more dumb!

Most of you make valid points, express opinions that I myself share. Then again, some of you are flaming imbecils.

Many have given their lives in the pursuit of a right we now take for granted, the freedom to express our views, so long as they are non-derogatory towards any visible group (i.e: religious, racial..).

In acknowledging this right, you should also expect to be confronted with opinions and beliefs that may indeed contradict, or diverge from your own. Such is called tolerance, even towards those who may seem less than aware of the harm they may be causing in exercising said right.

Bill Maher may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's no Bin Laden. Keep your frustrations in check.

Most of you make valid points, express opinions that I myself share. Then again, some of you are flaming imbecils.

Many have given their lives in the pursuit of a right we now take for granted, the freedom to express our views, so long as they are non-derogatory towards any visible group (i.e: religious, racial..).

In acknowledging this right, you should also expect to be confronted with opinions and beliefs that may indeed contradict, or diverge from your own. Such is called tolerance, even towards those who may seem less than aware of the harm they may be causing in exercising said right.

Bill Maher may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's no Bin Laden. Keep your frustrations in check.

Fuck the overtly sensitive people!! They offend everyone!! Free Speech Rules!! Death to Censorship!!